Time to move on from Waynes

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YikesVikes
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:We do have a few issues on D, wont go into them here because a few will disagree with me, but I dont see Waynes as being part of the problems. He is learning to cover better every year. He has an instinct around the LOS, stuffs the run, takes on blockers if he doesnt make the tackle. He doesnt look lost in coverage like his first few years, and uses his speed to his advantage, not just because he was late on a play. You dont move on from a player thats getting better. You however may want to see if a trade can be made for someone that was supposed to be a superstar but isnt, and will demand an insane amount of money. Which we couldnt afford anyways if we get Cousins.
I think he isnt going to get better. Great in run support but he will always be a guy a step late. With that said, my move on form him means drafting a cb and grooming them to replace him. If he improves, so be it. If he doesn't, we aren't caught flat-footed like post-Winfield.
First of all, this defense will never suffer from “post Winfield” syndrome as long as Zimmer is here. Zim doesn’t have bad CBs on his D.....ever. And he revives vets like pac man and Newman. Second, there you go saying you “think” he won’t improve. Well, he already has. Each and every year. So there is zero reason to think he’s going to take a step back. Again, you’re arguing something you’re never going to win. ~20% passer rating when thrown to in man coverage and you’re still sitting here saying he’s not good. Come on dude. Seriously?
Only a Sith deals in absolutes: rofl:
You make a lot of logical fallacies and it's very difficult to discuss things with you when your points are illogical.
1. Because he has improved to this point does not mean he will continue improving. Each player has a limit to where coaching can take them. The things that have improved for Waynes has taken him to a decent but unreliable cb. He is too stiff in his hips and still too slow to drive on cuts by the WR. He doesn't trust his instincts and that is while his play on the ball is atrocious. He was VERY fortunate in most of the games he played. Many of his "pass break-ups" came on plays that he was badly beaten and the ball was so poorly thrown that he had time to recover and got a hand in there. Many times it was by the grace of God that his contact on the WR caused a drop when 9/10 times its an easy catch despite that same contact. PFF and their stats don't count for that.

Do you think it was a coincidence that the Eagles and the Saints both ran so many fly routes against him. I expect that we will see more and more of those next season. I believe that he has hit his limit. You believe that he has more improvement to come. I think he will always be this inconsistent guy. Good one play and abysmal the next. I feel deep down that he will be a 5th year option player (due to his 1st round draft status) but will not be resigned by us in 2 years.
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Rhodes Closed
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by Rhodes Closed » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:58 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
First of all, this defense will never suffer from “post Winfield” syndrome as long as Zimmer is here. Zim doesn’t have bad CBs on his D.....ever. And he revives vets like pac man and Newman. Second, there you go saying you “think” he won’t improve. Well, he already has. Each and every year. So there is zero reason to think he’s going to take a step back. Again, you’re arguing something you’re never going to win. ~20% passer rating when thrown to in man coverage and you’re still sitting here saying he’s not good. Come on dude. Seriously?
Only a Sith deals in absolutes: rofl:
You make a lot of logical fallacies and it's very difficult to discuss things with you when your points are illogical.
1. Because he has improved to this point does not mean he will continue improving. Each player has a limit to where coaching can take them. The things that have improved for Waynes has taken him to a decent but unreliable cb. He is too stiff in his hips and still too slow to drive on cuts by the WR. He doesn't trust his instincts and that is while his play on the ball is atrocious. He was VERY fortunate in most of the games he played. Many of his "pass break-ups" came on plays that he was badly beaten and the ball was so poorly thrown that he had time to recover and got a hand in there. Many times it was by the grace of God that his contact on the WR caused a drop when 9/10 times its an easy catch despite that same contact. PFF and their stats don't count for that.

Do you think it was a coincidence that the Eagles and the Saints both ran so many fly routes against him. I expect that we will see more and more of those next season. I believe that he has hit his limit. You believe that he has more improvement to come. I think he will always be this inconsistent guy. Good one play and abysmal the next. I feel deep down that he will be a 5th year option player (due to his 1st round draft status) but will not be resigned by us in 2 years.
And not even a page ago you were calling him below average. What is it? Below average or decent? You keep changing your opinion of him all the time throughout this thread; it's hard to take you seriously.
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:16 pm

Rhodes Closed wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
First of all, this defense will never suffer from “post Winfield” syndrome as long as Zimmer is here. Zim doesn’t have bad CBs on his D.....ever. And he revives vets like pac man and Newman. Second, there you go saying you “think” he won’t improve. Well, he already has. Each and every year. So there is zero reason to think he’s going to take a step back. Again, you’re arguing something you’re never going to win. ~20% passer rating when thrown to in man coverage and you’re still sitting here saying he’s not good. Come on dude. Seriously?
Only a Sith deals in absolutes: rofl:
You make a lot of logical fallacies and it's very difficult to discuss things with you when your points are illogical.
1. Because he has improved to this point does not mean he will continue improving. Each player has a limit to where coaching can take them. The things that have improved for Waynes has taken him to a decent but unreliable cb. He is too stiff in his hips and still too slow to drive on cuts by the WR. He doesn't trust his instincts and that is while his play on the ball is atrocious. He was VERY fortunate in most of the games he played. Many of his "pass break-ups" came on plays that he was badly beaten and the ball was so poorly thrown that he had time to recover and got a hand in there. Many times it was by the grace of God that his contact on the WR caused a drop when 9/10 times its an easy catch despite that same contact. PFF and their stats don't count for that.

Do you think it was a coincidence that the Eagles and the Saints both ran so many fly routes against him. I expect that we will see more and more of those next season. I believe that he has hit his limit. You believe that he has more improvement to come. I think he will always be this inconsistent guy. Good one play and abysmal the next. I feel deep down that he will be a 5th year option player (due to his 1st round draft status) but will not be resigned by us in 2 years.
And not even a page ago you were calling him below average. What is it? Below average or decent? You keep changing your opinion of him all the time throughout this thread; it's hard to take you seriously.
Umm no.. You are trying your best to attack me instead of the argument. Nothing in my statement has changed. Allow me to reiterate in case it wasn't clear.
Waynes improved from being abysmal to being inconsistent. That still means that in 2017 he had below average play (based on the link that was used to justify his improvement).

Im not sure what in my previous statement made you feel that that had changed but... you know miscommunications happen.
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by Rhodes Closed » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:31 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Rhodes Closed wrote:
And not even a page ago you were calling him below average. What is it? Below average or decent? You keep changing your opinion of him all the time throughout this thread; it's hard to take you seriously.
Umm no.. You are trying your best to attack me instead of the argument. Nothing in my statement has changed. Allow me to reiterate in case it wasn't clear.
Waynes improved from being abysmal to being inconsistent. That still means that in 2017 he had below average play (based on the link that was used to justify his improvement).

Im not sure what in my previous statement made you feel that that had changed but... you know miscommunications happen.
Wrong, if I was attacking you instead of the argument, I would have said something about you. You changed your opinion that he was below average and then a couple of posts later you said he was decent. Decent is not below average; Decent is average/and or satisfactory. That is attacking the argument. Inconsistent would not be decent. I'm asking to at least be consistent with your wording. :deadhorse:
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:02 pm

Well hold on tight to that belief then. I’m sick of arguing with you. You just keep finding every excuse you can and you’ll continue to lose this argument. There’s a reason nobody agrees with you. It’s not like this board is covered with Waynes lovers. It’s just obvious to the naked eye what he has done this year. And clearly you can’t see that. There’s no more to be said
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:43 pm

Rhodes Closed wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
Rhodes Closed wrote:
And not even a page ago you were calling him below average. What is it? Below average or decent? You keep changing your opinion of him all the time throughout this thread; it's hard to take you seriously.
Umm no.. You are trying your best to attack me instead of the argument. Nothing in my statement has changed. Allow me to reiterate in case it wasn't clear.
Waynes improved from being abysmal to being inconsistent. That still means that in 2017 he had below average play (based on the link that was used to justify his improvement).

Im not sure what in my previous statement made you feel that that had changed but... you know miscommunications happen.
Wrong, if I was attacking you instead of the argument, I would have said something about you. You changed your opinion that he was below average and then a couple of posts later you said he was decent. Decent is not below average; Decent is average/and or satisfactory. That is attacking the argument. Inconsistent would not be decent. I'm asking to at least be consistent with your wording. :deadhorse:
Actually...... based on the conversation, I said the statistics in the link said he was below average ( because it Literally said that) but you know.... details.
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:46 pm

"As a result of this recent improvement in play, his cumulative yards per snap on the season is creeping closer to the league-average of 1.08"
Getting close to average means currently below average.

---> Average
---> Below Average
.
.
.
.
----> Waynes in 2016

*based on link provided
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:51 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Well hold on tight to that belief then. I’m sick of arguing with you. You just keep finding every excuse you can and you’ll continue to lose this argument. There’s a reason nobody agrees with you. It’s not like this board is covered with Waynes lovers. It’s just obvious to the naked eye what he has done this year. And clearly you can’t see that. There’s no more to be said
What has he done this year? Gotten beat like a drum in the first 8 games and turned it around with inconsistent play? You have provided the fact that he improved for half a season and that he is good in run support. Congrats, neither of those points speak to whether he should be a long time play with the Vikes. I've seen enough that he shouldn't be. You need to see more. Fine, that's understandable but my point still stands, he should be moved on from. I never said cut/ I never said traded. I said we should start to groom/procure his replacement.
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:Well hold on tight to that belief then. I’m sick of arguing with you. You just keep finding every excuse you can and you’ll continue to lose this argument. There’s a reason nobody agrees with you. It’s not like this board is covered with Waynes lovers. It’s just obvious to the naked eye what he has done this year. And clearly you can’t see that. There’s no more to be said
What has he done this year? Gotten beat like a drum in the first 8 games and turned it around with inconsistent play? You have provided the fact that he improved for half a season and that he is good in run support. Congrats, neither of those points speak to whether he should be a long time play with the Vikes. I've seen enough that he shouldn't be. You need to see more. Fine, that's understandable but my point still stands, he should be moved on from. I never said cut/ I never said traded. I said we should start to groom/procure his replacement.
And I disagree. I’ve explained myself enough. I’m done here
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by ChicagoViking » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:33 pm

YikesVikes wrote:he should be moved on from
Brilliant elocution. Just about as brilliant as your talent evaluation.
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:27 pm

ChicagoViking wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:he should be moved on from
Brilliant elocution. Just about as brilliant as your talent evaluation.
Why use an obscure, large word in a meaningless discussion? Save that impressive word for a more meaningful discussion. Seeing that the rest of your posts lack this flair for the dramatic and diction, you come off as a #### (rhymes with hooch). However, your response in this thread is just a microcosm of what is wrong this board (see, I can use large words too).
:thumbsup:

P.S. I'm pretty sure I'm a better evaluator of talent than you, so stay humble.
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Re: Time to move on from Waynes

Post by S197 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:25 pm

This has run its course
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