Vikings Message Board.Com

I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.

CbusVikesFan wrote: Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that.

this is a terrible comp. Murray is nothing like Leroy Hoard.

fiestavike wrote:

CbusVikesFan wrote: Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that.

this is a terrible comp. Murray is nothing like Leroy Hoard.

My opinion flapjack! Between him and jet they were 2nd in yds from scrimmage. Idk, i guess that is not enough for the likes of you sir.

CbusVikesFan wrote:

fiestavike wrote:

CbusVikesFan wrote: Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that.

this is a terrible comp. Murray is nothing like Leroy Hoard.

My opinion flapjack! Between him and jet they were 2nd in yds from scrimmage. Idk, i guess that is not enough for the likes of you sir.

This is a non sequitur. What does production have to do with a comp...let alone the production of another player not even included in the comp. absurdity.

Does Sparano need replaced in 2018?

The truth is that according to PFF, Nick Easton, Riley Reiff, Pat Elflein, Jeremiah Sirles, and Rashod Hill all finished the season with poor grades in the 40s. That may seem harsh, but the fact remains that none of these guys have improved much, and for most their performance deteriorated as the season progressed. Both Reiff and Remmers had worse grades than in previous years - especially Reiff. I think we can quibble with the PFF grades, but in both playoff games the offensive line was a clear liability. If not for Case Keenum’s elusiveness during the season, the sack totals would have been much higher.


https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/1/22 ... t-together

fiestavike wrote: This is a non sequitur. What does production have to do with a comp...let alone the production of another player not even included in the comp. absurdity.

The logic is what you were in disagreement that Murray isn't good enough, i differ in my opinion. The comparison I made was really how we used Hoard. As a compliment, when Cook comes back, that's what he'll be. And my stat was the comparison was the two together were pretty damn good, production wise. Second only to Ingram and Kamara. I don't know what is so absurd about that, but you can go Murray youself. Did you expect AP like numbers from him? Yours and my expectations are obviously on opposite sides of the spectrum, can we just disagree without being a dolt about it, pontificator?

Yes line coaching or the way they do things need to be looked into Sparano needs to go never been a big fan

halfgiz wrote:Does Sparano need replaced in 2018?

The truth is that according to PFF, Nick Easton, Riley Reiff, Pat Elflein, Jeremiah Sirles, and Rashod Hill all finished the season with poor grades in the 40s. That may seem harsh, but the fact remains that none of these guys have improved much, and for most their performance deteriorated as the season progressed. Both Reiff and Remmers had worse grades than in previous years - especially Reiff. I think we can quibble with the PFF grades, but in both playoff games the offensive line was a clear liability. If not for Case Keenum’s elusiveness during the season, the sack totals would have been much higher.


https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/1/22 ... t-together

IMO the Daily Norseman article doesn't pass the eye test. Our pass protection certainly had it's issues, but was a massive improvement from 2016. At one point, during the more difficult stretch of the schedule they went 5 games without giving up a sack. I'm sure Keenum helped, but I find it extremely unlikely that it was all on him. Also, our Runblocking was excellent, if not outstanding in 2017, as seen in the oft cited stat of our two RB being #2 in the NFL for yards from scrimmage. Also, late in the season, especially the last 4 games and the playoff games they were dealing with injuries and a shuffled alignment. In short, they really missed Nick Easton at LG.

Could they upgrade here? Probably. But would we get much "juice" from such an upgrade vs. say a top talent at 3 technique on the DL? I doubt it. Also note that the DN article says the only place we need help on Defense is to draft another CB to replace Newman. That is absurd. Would it be nice to have a depth guy there to replace Newman? Sure. But again, wouldn't we get a lot more bang for the buck out of an elite 3 technique who can rush the passer form the middle?

We definitely need help on the offensive line, and if we don't get it I doubt that it'll matter who's playing QB for us next year, but I think you're right that we were improved over previous seasons where it seemed like we had no answer for a good pass rush and would consistently give up sack after sack. Keenum was getting all day at times last season, and while he is very elusive in the pocket a good part of what was happening was just due to the offensive line I think, and maybe PFF doesn't always show that.

They could incrementally upgrade at RT and need depth at RG. However, I think achieving the incremental gain would cost them a lot of opportunity cost in other areas. Consider:

Berger is probably going to retire if not this season, then soon. If he retires then RG is who? Sirles? That is probably survivable, but the depth would be a huge concern. Nothing new to expect them to add some OL depth in the draft. However, if Berger doesn't retire then you have a legitimate starter and a solid back up situation at RG. That to me equals mid to late round project.

For RT, Hill has developed into a solid backup and even a serviceable starter. Remmers was plagued with back issues all season, but his performance was basically "OK". So we have an OK guy at starter as well as decent dpeth. You could upgrade here, but to get incremental gain it would take a player in his prime or a gem in the draft. (Like Elflein) IMO, to upgrade here would be VERY expensive. You'd be talking about an "A" tier Free Agent signing.

So in both cases we have Average to Good Starter and a decent depth player at backup. Given what will likely be a very healthy QB contract, my guess is they'll seek to address these positions no sooner than day 2 of the draft. If Berger retires, that might escalate the importance of the need at RG to some extent.

I still think DT is a far more pressing need as it would add the most "Juice" to the team.

I hear Toby Gerhart is available...

If we could get Blount for a cheaper price then Murray, i would be all for that. And I bet he would be quite a bit cheaper. But then if Cook goes down, Murray would be the better back to have. Remember, we have Ham too. Hes a good running, nothing great, but solid.

S197 wrote:I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.

heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.

ocampo82 wrote:

S197 wrote:I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.

heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.

What makes you think Hyde would come any cheaper than Murray?

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

ocampo82 wrote:

S197 wrote:I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.

heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.

What makes you think Hyde would come any cheaper than Murray?

I might be misunderstanding this, but https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/2018 has Murray basically being paid like a top 5 back in 2018. I don't think Hyde has had the production that will get him significantly more than that.
I don't think adding Hyde is posssible, but I want it to be