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 2018 Offseason Thread 
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.


Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:29 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
CbusVikesFan wrote:
Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that.


this is a terrible comp. Murray is nothing like Leroy Hoard.


Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:33 am
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that.


this is a terrible comp. Murray is nothing like Leroy Hoard.

My opinion flapjack! Between him and jet they were 2nd in yds from scrimmage. Idk, i guess that is not enough for the likes of you sir.

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Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:57 am
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
CbusVikesFan wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that.


this is a terrible comp. Murray is nothing like Leroy Hoard.

My opinion flapjack! Between him and jet they were 2nd in yds from scrimmage. Idk, i guess that is not enough for the likes of you sir.


This is a non sequitur. What does production have to do with a comp...let alone the production of another player not even included in the comp. :confused: absurdity.


Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:09 am
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Does Sparano need replaced in 2018?

The truth is that according to PFF, Nick Easton, Riley Reiff, Pat Elflein, Jeremiah Sirles, and Rashod Hill all finished the season with poor grades in the 40s. That may seem harsh, but the fact remains that none of these guys have improved much, and for most their performance deteriorated as the season progressed. Both Reiff and Remmers had worse grades than in previous years - especially Reiff. I think we can quibble with the PFF grades, but in both playoff games the offensive line was a clear liability. If not for Case Keenum’s elusiveness during the season, the sack totals would have been much higher.


https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/1/22 ... t-together


Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:52 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:
This is a non sequitur. What does production have to do with a comp...let alone the production of another player not even included in the comp. :confused: absurdity.

The logic is what you were in disagreement that Murray isn't good enough, i differ in my opinion. The comparison I made was really how we used Hoard. As a compliment, when Cook comes back, that's what he'll be. And my stat was the comparison was the two together were pretty damn good, production wise. Second only to Ingram and Kamara. I don't know what is so absurd about that, but you can go Murray youself. Did you expect AP like numbers from him? Yours and my expectations are obviously on opposite sides of the spectrum, can we just disagree without being a dolt about it, pontificator?

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Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:54 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Yes line coaching or the way they do things need to be looked into Sparano needs to go never been a big fan


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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
halfgiz wrote:
Does Sparano need replaced in 2018?

The truth is that according to PFF, Nick Easton, Riley Reiff, Pat Elflein, Jeremiah Sirles, and Rashod Hill all finished the season with poor grades in the 40s. That may seem harsh, but the fact remains that none of these guys have improved much, and for most their performance deteriorated as the season progressed. Both Reiff and Remmers had worse grades than in previous years - especially Reiff. I think we can quibble with the PFF grades, but in both playoff games the offensive line was a clear liability. If not for Case Keenum’s elusiveness during the season, the sack totals would have been much higher.


https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/1/22 ... t-together



IMO the Daily Norseman article doesn't pass the eye test. Our pass protection certainly had it's issues, but was a massive improvement from 2016. At one point, during the more difficult stretch of the schedule they went 5 games without giving up a sack. I'm sure Keenum helped, but I find it extremely unlikely that it was all on him. Also, our Runblocking was excellent, if not outstanding in 2017, as seen in the oft cited stat of our two RB being #2 in the NFL for yards from scrimmage. Also, late in the season, especially the last 4 games and the playoff games they were dealing with injuries and a shuffled alignment. In short, they really missed Nick Easton at LG.

Could they upgrade here? Probably. But would we get much "juice" from such an upgrade vs. say a top talent at 3 technique on the DL? I doubt it. Also note that the DN article says the only place we need help on Defense is to draft another CB to replace Newman. That is absurd. Would it be nice to have a depth guy there to replace Newman? Sure. But again, wouldn't we get a lot more bang for the buck out of an elite 3 technique who can rush the passer form the middle?

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Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:41 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
We definitely need help on the offensive line, and if we don't get it I doubt that it'll matter who's playing QB for us next year, but I think you're right that we were improved over previous seasons where it seemed like we had no answer for a good pass rush and would consistently give up sack after sack. Keenum was getting all day at times last season, and while he is very elusive in the pocket a good part of what was happening was just due to the offensive line I think, and maybe PFF doesn't always show that.


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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
They could incrementally upgrade at RT and need depth at RG. However, I think achieving the incremental gain would cost them a lot of opportunity cost in other areas. Consider:

Berger is probably going to retire if not this season, then soon. If he retires then RG is who? Sirles? That is probably survivable, but the depth would be a huge concern. Nothing new to expect them to add some OL depth in the draft. However, if Berger doesn't retire then you have a legitimate starter and a solid back up situation at RG. That to me equals mid to late round project.

For RT, Hill has developed into a solid backup and even a serviceable starter. Remmers was plagued with back issues all season, but his performance was basically "OK". So we have an OK guy at starter as well as decent dpeth. You could upgrade here, but to get incremental gain it would take a player in his prime or a gem in the draft. (Like Elflein) IMO, to upgrade here would be VERY expensive. You'd be talking about an "A" tier Free Agent signing.

So in both cases we have Average to Good Starter and a decent depth player at backup. Given what will likely be a very healthy QB contract, my guess is they'll seek to address these positions no sooner than day 2 of the draft. If Berger retires, that might escalate the importance of the need at RG to some extent.

I still think DT is a far more pressing need as it would add the most "Juice" to the team.

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Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:26 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
I hear Toby Gerhart is available...


Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:55 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
If we could get Blount for a cheaper price then Murray, i would be all for that. And I bet he would be quite a bit cheaper. But then if Cook goes down, Murray would be the better back to have. Remember, we have Ham too. Hes a good running, nothing great, but solid.


Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:41 am
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
S197 wrote:
I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.


heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.


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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
ocampo82 wrote:
S197 wrote:
I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.


heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.


What makes you think Hyde would come any cheaper than Murray?

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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
ocampo82 wrote:
S197 wrote:
I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.


heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.


What makes you think Hyde would come any cheaper than Murray?


I might be misunderstanding this, but https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/2018 has Murray basically being paid like a top 5 back in 2018. I don't think Hyde has had the production that will get him significantly more than that.
I don't think adding Hyde is posssible, but I want it to be :P


Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:59 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Didnt realize that. Thanks for the link. Hyde could be cheaper then. But you're right I dont see them cutting ties with Murray. He showed he could carry the load pretty well if Cook was absent

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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
I think I found our next great 3 tech DT. Taven Bryan out of Florida. The more I watch this kid the more I love him. I've watched a lot of film on the top DTs this year (Hurst, Payne, Bryan, etc.) and he sticks out the most to me. He has a motor that never stops, he's ridiculously athletic, quick hands, quick first step, etc. Kid is a beast. They are saying he can go anywhere from the 1st-2nd round. A recent mock on NFL.com has us landing him in the 2nd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRFCVz8mCY

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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
ocampo82 wrote:
S197 wrote:
I don't know, at $5.15M you're going to have options. I'd see what sort of market value a guy like Carlos Hyde will have. If it's less than LM, you may consider moving on. Cook is a 3 down back so whoever they take, assuming he stays healthy, is going to see considerably lower snaps. Even guys like Frank Gore or Blount are options. Yeah they're old but they're not going to see a lot of snaps and they're the type of runners who can push piles. $5M seems like a lot for a guy who will be carrying maybe 5-10 snaps a game.

I think our cap number might even be better than advertised because Shariff Floyd is still counting as $6.7M against the cap and there's no way he's staying around at that amount.


heeeeyyy I have been wondering this too--since Murray's cap number is high, why not move on and go after Hyde. Cook / Hyde 1-2 would be nice. I wouldn't mind restructuring Murray I like his game as compliment to Cook.


What makes you think Hyde would come any cheaper than Murray?


Even if he wasn't cheaper, its a better value because he is a much better RB. Murray is somewhere between a top 60-90 rb getting paid top 5 money. That makes no sense.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:32 am
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:

Even if he wasn't cheaper, its a better value because he is a much better RB. Murray is somewhere between a top 60-90 rb getting paid top 5 money. That makes no sense.


How do you figure? What has Hyde done that makes him MUCH better than Murray? They are just about the same in career YPC, Murray has more TDs, they are neck and neck in receptions, they averaged the same YPC this past year even though Murray wouldve been over 1000 if he started all 16. IMO they are very similar skill wise.

We all get that you dont like Murray for whatever reason but bottom line is, the stats alone prove that they are about dead even. Not that Hyde is MUCH better. You have nothing to prove he is "much better". In the end, Murray has done more in his career than Hyde has.

And he's in the top 60-90 RBs? Sorry but thats laughable. He was one of the best if not the best backup RB going into this season. By you saying he's between 60-90 is basically saying he is one of the worst backups and should be a third stringer. That literally makes me laugh out loud :lol:

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Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:13 am
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
By you saying he's between 60-90 is basically saying he is one of the worst backups and should be a third stringer. That literally makes me laugh out loud :lol:


That's about right. He was the 3rd best RB on this team, and would be 3rd best on nearly any other team.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:17 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
By you saying he's between 60-90 is basically saying he is one of the worst backups and should be a third stringer. That literally makes me laugh out loud :lol:


That's about right. He was the 3rd best RB on this team, and would be 3rd best on nearly any other team.


:lol: Again, you provide no backing to your post and then post that ^.

First, If McKinnon was better than Murray why didnt he start over Murray??

Second, Please name me a team other than the Saints, Eagles and Falcons where Murray would be a third back??

Dolphins: He would start there
Bills: backup McCoy
Pats: who knows bc they use 5 RBs
Jets: Start

Steelers: backup Bell
Browns: start
Bengals: start or share with Mixon
Ravens: start

Titans: Backup Henry. D. Murray is toast
Jags: backup Fornette
Texans: Maybe a third back behind Miller and Foreman although Millers time is dwindling
Colts: start

Raiders: start. Lynch turned into more of a headcase than anything
Chiefs: backup hunt
Broncos: probably start. CJ is a bum
Chargers: backup Gordon

Giants: start
Cowboys: backup Zeke
Eagles: probably a third back or would battle with Blount for the #2
Redskins: start

Packers: start
Lions: start
Bears: backup Howard

Saints: 3rd back
Panthers: He's much better than Stewart. Split with Mcaffery
Falcons: 3rd back
Bucs: start

Rams: backup TG
49ers: start or backup Hyde
Seahawks: start
Cardinals: backup DJ


Thats THIRTEEN teams he would possibly START on. 10 of those teams being outright. So again, what you are implying that he would be a 3rd back on just about every team is completely 110% false. We all get you dont like Murray but please spare us from comments like that. Because it makes zero sense at all. And again, if McKinnon was better, he wouldve started. And if it wasnt for Latavius Murray, we wouldnt have been SEVENTH in rushing this year. Give me a break dude

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Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:34 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thats THIRTEEN teams he would possibly START on. 10 of those teams being outright. So again, what you are implying that he would be a 3rd back on just about every team is completely 110% false. We all get you dont like Murray but please spare us from comments like that. Because it makes zero sense at all. And again, if McKinnon was better, he wouldve started. And it was for Latavius Murray, we wouldnt have been SEVENTH in rushing this year. Give me a break dude


Not even close to true. You couldn't even trade Murray to another team under his current contract. Nobody would be interested (even for a 7th rounder) unless they could sign him to a drastically reduced deal.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:43 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thats THIRTEEN teams he would possibly START on. 10 of those teams being outright. So again, what you are implying that he would be a 3rd back on just about every team is completely 110% false. We all get you dont like Murray but please spare us from comments like that. Because it makes zero sense at all. And again, if McKinnon was better, he wouldve started. And it was for Latavius Murray, we wouldnt have been SEVENTH in rushing this year. Give me a break dude


Not even close to true. You couldn't even trade Murray to another team under his current contract. Nobody would be interested (even for a 7th rounder) unless they could sign him to a drastically reduced deal.


What isnt even close to true?? Because it's all right up above for you so I'm not sure what you're even questioning. And I havent discussed his contract with you. That is not the point. YOU said he fell in the 60-90 range for RBs in the NFL and YOU said he would be a 3rd back on most teams, which is 1000% false. I dont care if someone would trade for him or not given his contract, that's not what I'm addressing. I'm addressing the comments you made regarding him as a player that make no sense. This is like the 3rd post you've made regarding Murray that you've provided zero backing to. You havent backed up anything you've said. You're just going out on a limb saying he's a 60-90 RB and he'd be a 3rd RB on most teams. How?? Explain?? I'll wait...

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Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:27 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YOU said he fell in the 60-90 range for RBs in the NFL and YOU said he would be a 3rd back on most teams, which is 1000% false.


Its actually fairly generous. There are several teams he wouldn't even be the 3rd back on. Most of the teams you identify him as a 'starter' for you are simply incorrect. Murray just had his best case scenario season, being on a team whose #1 went down and whose #2 is not capable of being more than a timeshare RB. He did a poor job getting behind his pads, breaking tackles, or picking up extra yards, and was thoroughly pedestrian.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:36 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YOU said he fell in the 60-90 range for RBs in the NFL and YOU said he would be a 3rd back on most teams, which is 1000% false.


Its actually fairly generous. There are several teams he wouldn't even be the 3rd back on. Most of the teams you identify him as a 'starter' for you are simply incorrect. Murray just had his best case scenario season, being on a team whose #1 went down and whose #2 is not capable of being more than a timeshare RB. He did a poor job getting behind his pads, breaking tackles, or picking up extra yards, and was thoroughly pedestrian.


Oh my goodness dude seriously? Teams he wouldnt be the THIRD back on?? I'm not gonna lie I truly question your football knowledge. Now you're just making excuses and going against what you already said. You said Murray was the 3rd best back on the team but then follow that up by saying he was the #1 because Mckinnon isnt capable of being more than a timeshare RB?? What?? :confused: So if Mckinnon cant be anymore than a timeshare RB, then how can he possibly be better than Murray?? You're talking yourself in circles man.

As for the teams he would start on, I said some would be close but at worst he would be a backup. You said he would be a 3rd string or worse on most team. Where in the eff are you seeing that?? I would love to know. Something you've yet to answer.

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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Oh my goodness dude seriously? Teams he wouldnt be the THIRD back on?? I'm not gonna lie I truly question your football knowledge.


Perhaps in this age of intense specialization there is a huge market for a RB who isn't particularly evasive, powerful, or hard to bring down.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:04 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Arizona Cardinals Kerwynn Williams D.J. Foster
Atlanta Falcons Tevin Coleman
Baltimore Ravens D. Woodhead/J. Allen
Buffalo Bills Mike Tolbert
Carolina Panthers J. Stewart Cameron Artis-Payne
Chicago Bears Tarik Cohen
Cincinnati Bengals Giovani Bernard Jeremy Hill
Cleveland Browns Duke Johnson Jr.
Dallas Cowboys^ Alfred Morris Rod Smith
Denver Broncos Devontae Booker
Detroit Lions T. Riddick/T. Green
Green Bay Packers Ty Montgomery Aaron Jones
Houston Texans A. Blue/A. Ellington
Indianapolis Colts Marlon Mack
Jacksonville Jaguars C. Ivory/T. Yeldon
Kansas City Chiefs Charcandrick West
Los Angeles Chargers Branden Oliver
Los Angeles Rams Malcolm Brown
Miami Dolphins Senorise Perry
New England Patriots D. Lewis/R. Burkhead James White
New Orleans Saints Alvin Kamara
New York Giants O. Darkwa/W. Gallman Shane Vereen
New York Jets M. Forte/B. Powell Elijah McGuire
Oakland Raiders J. Richard/D. Washington
Philadelphia Eagles L. Blount/C. Clement
Pittsburgh Steelers James Conner
San Francisco 49ers Matt Breida
Seattle Seahawks Mike Davis J.D. McKissic
Tampa Bay Buccaneers Peyton Barber
Tennessee Titans DeMarco Murray
Washington Redskins Samaje Perine Kapri Bibbs

So here are pretty much all the backups in the NFL. Are you really going to sit here and say Murray wouldnt be ahead of just about all of them outside of Kamara, Blount and Coleman?? I sure hope not. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you but this will have to do. To say he's a 3rd RB or worse on most teams in an absolute joke. Some 3rd stringers are listed above as well. It's not even comparable

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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Oh my goodness dude seriously? Teams he wouldnt be the THIRD back on?? I'm not gonna lie I truly question your football knowledge.


Perhaps in this age of intense specialization there is a huge market for a RB who isn't particularly evasive, powerful, or hard to bring down.


:lol: Uhh dude you kill me. Well since you're going to continue avoiding what I ask you and continue to provide no backing, I guess I see where this all stands. When you struggle that much to back up your own opinion and provide pretty much zero facts, it usually means something. We'll leave this at an agree to largely disagree. Later!

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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Oh my goodness dude seriously? Teams he wouldnt be the THIRD back on?? I'm not gonna lie I truly question your football knowledge.


Perhaps in this age of intense specialization there is a huge market for a RB who isn't particularly evasive, powerful, or hard to bring down.


:lol: Uhh dude you kill me. Well since you're going to continue avoiding what I ask you and continue to provide no backing, I guess I see where this all stands. When you struggle that much to back up your own opinion and provide pretty much zero facts, it usually means something. We'll leave this at an agree to largely disagree. Later!


Later.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:36 pm
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Post Re: 2018 Offseason Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Oh my goodness dude seriously? Teams he wouldnt be the THIRD back on?? I'm not gonna lie I truly question your football knowledge.


Perhaps in this age of intense specialization there is a huge market for a RB who isn't particularly evasive, powerful, or hard to bring down.


:lol: Uhh dude you kill me. Well since you're going to continue avoiding what I ask you and continue to provide no backing, I guess I see where this all stands. When you struggle that much to back up your own opinion and provide pretty much zero facts, it usually means something. We'll leave this at an agree to largely disagree. Later!


Yes, I'd easily count 20 from that list, and there are a lot of names missing from that list as well.


Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:40 pm
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