NFC Championship Reaction Thread

[mansquatch]

To me this loss was on the coaching staff.

The defense gave up 31 points (the other 7 was scored during the pick 6) to a Nick Foles lead offense. This is the same defense that we've seen play far better against tougher, more skilled offensive teams. In other words, they played beneath themselves. I said during the offseason that one of the areas of improvement was that Zimmer needed to stop having his team lay an egg 2-3 times a season, especially against quality opposition. This year they seemed to have beat it, the offense bailed them out vs. WSH and they almost pulled it out vs. CAR.

Then we played Philly and the Defense completely sucked. I'm sure some of it had to do with way we won last Sunday. Coming off of that, probably emotionally depleted the team a bit and this week was the hangover. Just my guess.

There really isn't much else to say in my opinion.

It is fair to say that teams laying an egg like this isn't unique to the Vikings. (Although us doing it constantly over the years in NFCCG is uniquely our own demon...) PIT layed a few eggs this year, and so did NE, most notably in that inexplicable loss to the Dolphins. So Zimmer isn't alone in this regard. However, it absolutely CAN'T happen in the playoffs.

Next year we'll probably have a tougher schedule, but there is no reason to not think that at least in terms of the roster this team could compete in the playoffs again.

[Pondering Her Percy]

To me this loss was on the coaching staff.

The defense gave up 31 points (the other 7 was scored during the pick 6) to a Nick Foles lead offense. This is the same defense that we've seen play far better against tougher, more skilled offensive teams. In other words, they played beneath themselves. I said during the offseason that one of the areas of improvement was that Zimmer needed to stop having his team lay an egg 2-3 times a season, especially against quality opposition. This year they seemed to have beat it, the offense bailed them out vs. WSH and they almost pulled it out vs. CAR.

Then we played Philly and the Defense completely sucked. I'm sure some of it had to do with way we won last Sunday. Coming off of that, probably emotionally depleted the team a bit and this week was the hangover. Just my guess.

There really isn't much else to say in my opinion.

It is fair to say that teams laying an egg like this isn't unique to the Vikings. (Although us doing it constantly over the years in NFCCG is uniquely our own demon...) PIT layed a few eggs this year, and so did NE, most notably in that inexplicable loss to the Dolphins. So Zimmer isn't alone in this regard. However, it absolutely CAN'T happen in the playoffs.

Next year we'll probably have a tougher schedule, but there is no reason to not think that at least in terms of the roster this team could compete in the playoffs again.

Agree 100%. I love Zim and I think he has a great staff. But if anyone it was on them. Like I said in another thread, this isnt the 09 team. This team will continue to be strong and Zim and Spielman have done a great job in FA and drafting lately. There is no reason to think they wont be back contending next year

[Cliff]

I like Zimmer and think it would be a mistake at this point to fire him - at the moment. He did make it farther than any other coach since 2009 (and even then the offensive coach was basically Favre). He has put together a great team and they played well all year. That said, his playoff history is beyond disturbing. I posted some stats about it in the past but here it is again;

(Last 10 years - prior to this season)

• Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
• Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better.

The playoff game that a team led by him (as head coach or DC) actually did win came by a "miracle" on the last play of a game they should have handily won. The way the Eagles came out after the half and continued to control the game is what a better team would have done to the Saints.

In my opinion Zimmer has a history of his defenses being exposed in the playoffs. That's honestly what I think happened this year too. It seems like Sean Peyton went into the half of that game, was able to crack the defense, and then the Eagles simply copied this week. Maybe that's too simplistic but it sure seems like what happened.

There were also some pretty major injuries. Thielen wasn't himself but the Rhodes injury was a killer. With Griffin playing hurt we weren't getting enough pressure.

My biggest fear about Zimmer is that we end up in a similar situation to what his old team is in with Marvin Lewis. The guy has a winning record and has went to the playoffs 7 out of the 15 years he's been with the team. Including a run where they didn't miss in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015. However, he has not won a single playoff game. He's done well enough on a regular basis and is well liked enough to keep his job but I think it's obvious at this point the Bengals aren't going to the super bowl with him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I like Zimmer and think it would be a mistake at this point to fire him - at the moment. He did make it farther than any other coach since 2009 (and even then the offensive coach was basically Favre). He has put together a great team and they played well all year. That said, his playoff history is beyond disturbing. I posted some stats about it in the past but here it is again;

(Last 10 years - prior to this season)

• Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
• Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better.

The playoff game that a team led by him (as head coach or DC) actually did win came by a "miracle" on the last play of a game they should have handily won. The way the Eagles came out after the half and continued to control the game is what a better team would have done to the Saints.

In my opinion Zimmer has a history of his defenses being exposed in the playoffs. That's honestly what I think happened this year too. It seems like Sean Peyton went into the half of that game, was able to crack the defense, and then the Eagles simply copied this week. Maybe that's too simplistic but it sure seems like what happened.

There were also some pretty major injuries. Thielen wasn't himself but the Rhodes injury was a killer. With Griffin playing hurt we weren't getting enough pressure.

My biggest fear about Zimmer is that we end up in a similar situation to what his old team is in with Marvin Lewis. The guy has a winning record and has went to the playoffs 7 out of the 15 years he's been with the team. Including a run where they didn't miss in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015. However, he has not won a single playoff game. He's done well enough on a regular basis and is well liked enough to keep his job but I think it's obvious at this point the Bengals aren't going to the super bowl with him.

Agreed. I really couldnt tell you why there is even talk of firing him after what he accomplished this season after losing your starting QB and RB. Marvin Lewis reminds me of someone that just coasts through life and settles for just being good enough but not great. I dont see that in Mike Zimmer one bit.

Think about what he said at years end last year. That him and Rick would make it a point to fix the OL, fix the running game and fix the run defense and look what he did. Fixed all 3 way more than any of us ever expected. We go from an 8-8 team to a 13-3 team in one year after losing arguably our best offensive player. Mike Zimmer is a excellent coach. The words "fire" and "Zimmer" will never be in the same sentence with this guy unless a drastic turn took place. I love Mike Zimmer and I love what he is doing with this team. No reason to hit the panic button. This isnt 2009

[Mothman]

I like Zimmer and think it would be a mistake at this point to fire him - at the moment. He did make it farther than any other coach since 2009 (and even then the offensive coach was basically Favre). He has put together a great team and they played well all year. That said, his playoff history is beyond disturbing. I posted some stats about it in the past but here it is again;

(Last 10 years - prior to this season)

• Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
• Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better.

The playoff game that a team led by him (as head coach or DC) actually did win came by a "miracle" on the last play of a game they should have handily won. The way the Eagles came out after the half and continued to control the game is what a better team would have done to the Saints.

In my opinion Zimmer has a history of his defenses being exposed in the playoffs. That's honestly what I think happened this year too. It seems like Sean Peyton went into the half of that game, was able to crack the defense, and then the Eagles simply copied this week. Maybe that's too simplistic but it sure seems like what happened.

There were also some pretty major injuries. Thielen wasn't himself but the Rhodes injury was a killer. With Griffin playing hurt we weren't getting enough pressure.

My biggest fear about Zimmer is that we end up in a similar situation to what his old team is in with Marvin Lewis. The guy has a winning record and has went to the playoffs 7 out of the 15 years he's been with the team. Including a run where they didn't miss in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015. However, he has not won a single playoff game. He's done well enough on a regular basis and is well liked enough to keep his job but I think it's obvious at this point the Bengals aren't going to the super bowl with him.

That's been my biggest fear about Zimmer from the start and I think it's still a legitimate concern. Reaching the postseason is great but he needs to show he can get the best out of his teams in the postseason and I think he's come up short in that department.

[VikingLord]

I like Zimmer and think it would be a mistake at this point to fire him - at the moment. He did make it farther than any other coach since 2009 (and even then the offensive coach was basically Favre). He has put together a great team and they played well all year. That said, his playoff history is beyond disturbing. I posted some stats about it in the past but here it is again;

(Last 10 years - prior to this season)

• Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
• Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better.

The playoff game that a team led by him (as head coach or DC) actually did win came by a "miracle" on the last play of a game they should have handily won. The way the Eagles came out after the half and continued to control the game is what a better team would have done to the Saints.

In my opinion Zimmer has a history of his defenses being exposed in the playoffs. That's honestly what I think happened this year too. It seems like Sean Peyton went into the half of that game, was able to crack the defense, and then the Eagles simply copied this week. Maybe that's too simplistic but it sure seems like what happened.

There were also some pretty major injuries. Thielen wasn't himself but the Rhodes injury was a killer. With Griffin playing hurt we weren't getting enough pressure.

My biggest fear about Zimmer is that we end up in a similar situation to what his old team is in with Marvin Lewis. The guy has a winning record and has went to the playoffs 7 out of the 15 years he's been with the team. Including a run where they didn't miss in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015. However, he has not won a single playoff game. He's done well enough on a regular basis and is well liked enough to keep his job but I think it's obvious at this point the Bengals aren't going to the super bowl with him.

The defense was incredibly rigid. It was like the Eagles found a play that worked and then just ran it over and over until the Vikings finally stopped it or the Eagles figured they'd pushed their luck.

What was most distressing to me was how often the Vikings DBs got beat down the field. The Eagle receivers would sell them on double moves or even just pretend to slow down and stop as if the play wasn't coming to them, and then suddenly accelerate downfield and leave the Viking DB chasing hopelessly. Tre Waynes in particular seemed to struggle with that yesterday, but even the mighty Harrison Smith got beat on what should have been a fairly straightforward coverage.

[Pondering Her Percy]

See what I dont get though, is last year a handful of fans on here wanted Zimmer fired and did nothing but bring up how he had no playoff wins with this team. THEN this year comes and he earns a first round bye, beats the Saints and loses in the NFC championship and now we're saying it's still a concern I get it, we all want a Super Bowl but jeez, the guy just went from an average team to an excellent team in one year. Lets pump the brakes

[J. Kapp 11]

It's really not fair to characterize losses of Zimmer's teams prior to becoming a head coach as "Zimmer's fault." Yes, the stats were alarming, but a lot of things contribute to the stats in game situations besides defensive calls. Most notably, I would cite Andy Dalton's repeated inability to play even replacement-level quarterback in the playoffs. That affects the defense, too. I mean, if you're going to assess the past, then go back to Dallas, as well. He does have a ring with that team.

We can all agree that it IS fair to assess Zimmer's losses as a head coach. But if that's the case, then you can't just leave out 2015. That was a game the Vikings would have won -- SHOULD have won -- if not for Blair Walsh biffing a 27-yard chip shot. That had absolutely nothing to do with Mike Zimmer's coaching. Walsh choked, which he continued to do repeatedly this season with Seattle.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have questions about our preparedness against the Eagles. It was disturbing, to say the least, especially after we came out and dominated on that first drive. There are legitimate questions that need to be answered, and I think fans deserve those answers. Hopefully those answers will be forthcoming in the next few weeks. However, looking back at the Bengals of 2009 doesn't answer questions about the 2018 Vikings in Philly.

Let's figure out what actually went wrong before we automatically assert that Mike Zimmer can't coach in big games.

[Mothman]

See what I dont get though, is last year a handful of fans on here wanted Zimmer fired and did nothing but bring up how he had no playoff wins with this team. THEN this year comes and he earns a first round bye, beats the Saints and loses in the NFC championship and now we're saying it's still a concern I get it, we all want a Super Bowl but jeez, the guy just went from an average team to an excellent team in one year. Lets pump the brakes

Concern doesn't equal "fire the guy immediately" but any fan not concerned after watching the supposed strength of the team, Zimmer's defense, get completely destroyed in their most important game of the year (and basically in 6 of their 8 quarters) might want to reconsider the situation.

Zimmer's done a good job overall. That's not in dispute but not every good coach is a Super Bowl caliber coach and in assessing whether Zimmer has what it takes to be the latter, this postseason raises serious questions about his ceiling. It's not as if the Vikings ran into a team with far superior talent yesterday.

[J. Kapp 11]

See what I dont get though, is last year a handful of fans on here wanted Zimmer fired and did nothing but bring up how he had no playoff wins with this team. THEN this year comes and he earns a first round bye, beats the Saints and loses in the NFC championship and now we're saying it's still a concern I get it, we all want a Super Bowl but jeez, the guy just went from an average team to an excellent team in one year. Lets pump the brakes

Concern doesn't equal "fire the guy immediately" but any fan not concerned after watching the supposed strength of the team, Zimmer's defense, get completely destroyed in their most important game of the year (and basically in 6 of their 8 quarters) might want to reconsider the situation.

Zimmer's done a good job overall. That's not in dispute but not every good coach is a Super Bowl caliber coach and in assessing whether Zimmer has what it takes to be the latter, this postseason raises serious questions about his ceiling. It's not as if the Vikings ran into a team with far superior talent yesterday.

Jim, I think you're asking fair questions.

I do NOT think it's fair, however, to look back at his Bengals record and say, "See. He can't coach defense in big games." Completely different situations, and he was in a different position.

Maybe this is a case where a head coach is spreading himself too thin by calling the defense. I've never been a proponent of a head coach calling plays, either on offense or defense. Maybe the Vikings were more banged up than we thought. Maybe momentum just completely overtook this team, and Zimmer needs to grow in helping his team combat that. I'm not absolving Zimmer here. Not even close. I'm just saying that his Bengals record is largely irrelevant, and it's unfair to leave out 2015, where his team certainly played well enough to advance.

[Mothman]

Jim, I think you're asking fair questions.

I do NOT think it's fair, however, to look back at his Bengals record and say, "See. He can't coach defense in big games." Completely different situations, and he was in a different position.

That's fair. It can probably be informative to look at his history as a DC in playoff games but it's obviously not the same as being a head coach.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I do NOT think it's fair, however, to look back at his Bengals record and say, "See. He can't coach defense in big games." Completely different situations, and he was in a different position.

Maybe this is a case where a head coach is spreading himself too thin by calling the defense. I've never been a proponent of a head coach calling plays, either on offense or defense. Maybe the Vikings were more banged up than we thought. Maybe momentum just completely overtook this team, and Zimmer needs to grow in helping his team combat that. I'm not absolving Zimmer here. Not even close. I'm just saying that his Bengals record is largely irrelevant, and it's unfair to leave out 2015, where his team certainly played well enough to advance.

Agreed. I dont think it's fair to lay that on the line. That stat is about as relevant and saying Rick Spielman isnt a good GM because he was bad in Miami. I've only heard that 20 times on here. I dont care what he did in Miami just like I dont care what Zim did in Cincy. Marvin Lewis in the blame there. Or is that Marvin's excuse now? That he never had good coordinators and thats why he lost in the playoffs? No. What matters is what Mike Zimmer has done when HE runs the show.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Jim, I think you're asking fair questions.

I do NOT think it's fair, however, to look back at his Bengals record and say, "See. He can't coach defense in big games." Completely different situations, and he was in a different position.

That's fair. It can probably be informative to look at his history as a DC in playoff games but it's obviously not the same as being a head coach.

So it's informative to look at what Spielman did in Miami?? Because it's so relevant to what he's doing now? No. It's not relevant at all. It means nothing. Zim is now a HEAD coach. Let's see how he handles being a HEAD coach. Not someone elses puppet.

[Cliff]

It's really not fair to characterize losses of Zimmer's teams prior to becoming a head coach as "Zimmer's fault." Yes, the stats were alarming, but a lot of things contribute to the stats in game situations besides defensive calls. Most notably, I would cite Andy Dalton's repeated inability to play even replacement-level quarterback in the playoffs. That affects the defense, too. I mean, if you're going to assess the past, then go back to Dallas, as well. He does have a ring with that team.

Those stats don't tell the entire story for sure but he was still calling the shots for those defenses and they seemingly didn't play well (I haven't gone back and watched the games). As far as his Dallas days I decided to only go back 10 years as a measure just because it seemed like it was probably more reflective of where he is now. I was also looking at him in the capacity of DC or HC rather than an assistant or DB coach. In that respect, he didn't win any playoff games with the cowboys either.

• In 2000 while DC the Cowboys lost to the Vikings in the wildcard round. That game the Vikings ran 38 times for 175 yards. Jeff George went 12/25 212 yards and 3TDs/0INTs (Randy moss 127 yards and a TD).
• In 2003 the Cowboys lost to the Panthers. The Panthers rushed 34 times for 107 yards (not bad there, 3.1 avg). Jake Delhomme went 18/29 273 yards and 1 TD. They held them to 5 FGs (the Cowboys offense got shut down in this one).
• In 2006 he did pretty well for the Boys'. Held S. Alexander to 69 yards on 24 carries and no TDs. Matt Hasselbeck went 18/36 for 240 yards 2TD/2INT.

I'm not saying "he lost" the games just that his defenses don't tend to do great in the playoffs. Especially in the most recent past.

We can all agree that it IS fair to assess Zimmer's losses as a head coach. But if that's the case, then you can't just leave out 2015. That was a game the Vikings would have won -- SHOULD have won -- if not for Blair Walsh biffing a 27-yard chip shot. That had absolutely nothing to do with Mike Zimmer's coaching. Walsh choked, which he continued to do repeatedly this season with Seattle.

If the criteria is what would happen under normal conditions then that evens out anyway as the Saints should have been a loss lol

Even if we do count that game as one where his defense played well - that's 3 games in 8 where his defense had good games and one of them was in the 2nd coldest game in NFL history - not exactly ideal offensive conditions.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have questions about our preparedness against the Eagles. It was disturbing, to say the least, especially after we came out and dominated on that first drive. There are legitimate questions that need to be answered, and I think fans deserve those answers. Hopefully those answers will be forthcoming in the next few weeks. However, looking back at the Bengals of 2009 doesn't answer questions about the 2018 Vikings in Philly.

I'm not trying to say that the losses completely reflect the kind of coach he is. I think looking at how well a coach's team (or unit) has preformed in the past does carry some weight but that's not to say I'm advocating firing him because of that - just that I hope the trend doesn't continue.

Let's figure out what actually went wrong before we automatically assert that Mike Zimmer can't coach in big games.

The list is long on that one!

I'm not saying Zimmer *can't* coach in big games but judging past stats and what I've seen with him as a Viking it's not looking good. He's certainly done well enough to keep his job (and me not complain about it) but the playoffs will make me nervous with him at the helm - at least until he proves otherwise.

[joe h]

Well, we did have the easiest road to the Super Bowl since ‘98. The packers were neutralized, the lions regressed, the bears were the bears. The afc north turned out to be awful, yet we lost to the Steelers. The nfc south was beatable but we couldn’t beat Carolina. In the playoffs, the panthers got beat, and a really bad quarter back is all that stood in our way, but zimmer couldn’t gameplan for that? We’ll likely never get this opportunity again. And it isn’t like we have a “core” to work with. The oline is an injury or two away from 2016 awful, we have no quarter back on the roster for next year(4th time spielman has put us in this position btw), our kicker is useless past the thirty, no offensive coordinator, and I don’t know what the hell collapsed on defense the last 6 quarters that needs an upgrade. Plus we’re playing number ones next year, Aaron Rodgers, the afc east, and the nfc west.

I figure it this way, with a new offense leaning coach, we have a chance of getting over the nfcc hump, stick with zimmer, we have no chance. Likely how next year plays out, we go 9-7, maybe worst, the wilfs lose patience and fire him near the end of the season. So why waste a season on a guy that gets out coached time and again?

Only other explanation is this is all rigged, and the Vikings took a dive? I find it strange that every year in Vegas money floods for one team, yet the line barely moves. Like they wanted everyone betting on the Vikings. Super bowl 50 is another example. Everyone put money on Carolina to cover, yet that line didn’t budge.