Next years QB

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Ovechkin8
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Ovechkin8 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:10 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Rock45 wrote:Interesting article here.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/ ... ble-choice
IMO, if Bradford doesn't have his injury history he is a top 5 QB in the NFL. He is truly an elite passer both in terms of strength and accuracy. The only guy in the deep game that I've seen in his class is Rogers.

Sadly, it is all for naught. His knee is very likely going to keep him from realizing his potential. We must all remember that he didn't get hit in 2017, his knee just crapped out on him.

Could there be a single season of magnificence left in his career? Maybe... But can you gamble on it? Probably not.

I've said this all year, but I really feel bad for Sam. You can tell he puts the time in and has the right "stuff". His body just won't let him put it all together. What a shame.

Have to disagree about Bradford. Cooley did several film breakdowns of the guy since we played him a few times in division and out (we seemed to play the Rams every year it felt like).

Set aside his injury issues but the gist was he really struggled pushing the ball down the field for most of his career.

Even when he played 15-16 games (a rarity) he never once threw for 4000 yards on any team and never more than 21 TDs. His career yards per attempt is 6.6

Cousins WORST year as a starter was last year when he threw for 4,093 yards. His lowest TD output was 25. His career yards per attempt is 7.7

Bradfords best (?) year was 2016 with you guys. That year he threw for a career high 3,877 yards. He ranked 19th in yards per attempt.

Cousins ranked 3rd that year.

Then when you throw in durability (which IS a skill...pretty much THE MOST IMPORTANT skill) and its not even close.

The injury/durability "what if" game is silly. Apply that and RGIII may still be running by teams today.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Ovechkin8 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:13 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Injuries are part of the game. They come at horrible times usually. Like losing your QB and starting QB at the start of the season. Thats why you need good depth, which our gm, Rick, gave us last year. Years ago, that depth was there.
Sure they are no doubt. Last year was an aberration in the Skins case. Some years happen to be more brutal than others and last year was historically bad for the Skins. More of a fluke.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:10 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
There you going, calling folks ignorant who dont think the way you do. I HATED the trade. Our Oline wasn't good when we made the trade. Not that it would have mattered but Rick said NOW was the time to make the run for the SB. There was no reason to think Sam's knees would be working, AND it cost us draft picks. AND it didnt work out. Maybe you should look in the mirror when you talk about others and their ignorance and admit you aernt always right. OFC Sam was a great talent. Every team he had been on said that. But was he worth betting on it? Nope, cause he had the worst time trying to stay in an upright posistion even when the doctors cleared him.
First of all, I was referring to some analysts and fans. Didn’t say one thing about anyone on here. If you wanna take it that way then so be it but don’t try to turn your little tangent around on me. Last I checked you were the one throwing out obscenities towards mosscarter because you didn’t agree with his opinion. That’s ok but I call random analysts and random fans ignorant and I’m the bad guy.? When I’ve referred to nobody specific on here?You’re trying to just dig yourself out of the giant whole you’ve buried yourself in so now the finger pointing starts. I really don’t care what your opinion is about that trade anymore but I don’t know what you expect me to admit I’m wrong about? I’ve provided facts, you’ve provided opinion. Not sure what would be wrong there on my end. You’re probably better off giving the argument a rest because I’m not sure where you’re even trying to go with it at this point. I’ve provided plenty of facts regarding Cousins and a Redskins fan came on here and gave a very similar opinion and you do nothing but continue to battle and complain about the same stuff over and over again with no proof behind any of it. I really have no care to talk to you anymore. You’re easily the most tiring fan on this board. I now have you back on foe (why I took you off in the first place is beyond me). Later
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
There you going, calling folks ignorant who dont think the way you do. I HATED the trade. Our Oline wasn't good when we made the trade. Not that it would have mattered but Rick said NOW was the time to make the run for the SB. There was no reason to think Sam's knees would be working, AND it cost us draft picks. AND it didnt work out. Maybe you should look in the mirror when you talk about others and their ignorance and admit you aernt always right. OFC Sam was a great talent. Every team he had been on said that. But was he worth betting on it? Nope, cause he had the worst time trying to stay in an upright posistion even when the doctors cleared him.
First of all, I was referring to some analysts and fans. Didn’t say one thing about anyone on here. If you wanna take it that way then so be it but don’t try to turn your little tangent around on me. Last I checked you were the one throwing out obscenities towards mosscarter because you didn’t agree with his opinion. That’s ok but I call random analysts and random fans ignorant and I’m the bad guy.? When I’ve referred to nobody specific on here?You’re trying to just dig yourself out of the giant whole you’ve buried yourself in so now the finger pointing starts. I really don’t care what your opinion is about that trade anymore but I don’t know what you expect me to admit I’m wrong about? I’ve provided facts, you’ve provided opinion. Not sure what would be wrong there on my end. You’re probably better off giving the argument a rest because I’m not sure where you’re even trying to go with it at this point. I’ve provided plenty of facts regarding Cousins and a Redskins fan came on here and gave a very similar opinion and you do nothing but continue to battle and complain about the same stuff over and over again with no proof behind any of it. I really have no care to talk to you anymore. You’re easily the most tiring fan on this board. I now have you back on foe (why I took you off in the first place is beyond me). Later
Oh god, please dont foe me sir. What in the world will I do?
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:50 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Oh god, please dont foe me sir. What in the world will I do?
^exactly why you get foed right there people!
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Rock45 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:13 pm

Ovechkin8 wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
Rock45 wrote:Interesting article here.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/ ... ble-choice
IMO, if Bradford doesn't have his injury history he is a top 5 QB in the NFL. He is truly an elite passer both in terms of strength and accuracy. The only guy in the deep game that I've seen in his class is Rogers.

Sadly, it is all for naught. His knee is very likely going to keep him from realizing his potential. We must all remember that he didn't get hit in 2017, his knee just crapped out on him.

Could there be a single season of magnificence left in his career? Maybe... But can you gamble on it? Probably not.

I've said this all year, but I really feel bad for Sam. You can tell he puts the time in and has the right "stuff". His body just won't let him put it all together. What a shame.

Have to disagree about Bradford. Cooley did several film breakdowns of the guy since we played him a few times in division and out (we seemed to play the Rams every year it felt like).

Set aside his injury issues but the gist was he really struggled pushing the ball down the field for most of his career.

Even when he played 15-16 games (a rarity) he never once threw for 4000 yards on any team and never more than 21 TDs. His career yards per attempt is 6.6

Cousins WORST year as a starter was last year when he threw for 4,093 yards. His lowest TD output was 25. His career yards per attempt is 7.7

Bradfords best (?) year was 2016 with you guys. That year he threw for a career high 3,877 yards. He ranked 19th in yards per attempt.

Cousins ranked 3rd that year.

Then when you throw in durability (which IS a skill...pretty much THE MOST IMPORTANT skill) and its not even close.

The injury/durability "what if" game is silly. Apply that and RGIII may still be running by teams today.
you must read the article
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:15 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyn ... ed-tax-law

Interesting take here. Minnesota shares reciprocity with Michigan, where Cousins just built a huge mansion. If he signed with a different team he’d have to pay double the tax. If he lived in Minnesota, he would not have to pay tax. Just in Michigan. Which I’m sure the tax on a house like that is through the roof
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:42 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyn ... ed-tax-law

Interesting take here. Minnesota shares reciprocity with Michigan, where Cousins just built a huge mansion. If he signed with a different team he’d have to pay double the tax. If he lived in Minnesota, he would not have to pay tax. Just in Michigan. Which I’m sure the tax on a house like that is through the roof
I bet it's at least $50.

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Re: Next years QB

Post by halfgiz » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:09 pm

Browns is out of the Cousins running.


@AdamSchefter

Browns strike again. This time, Cleveland agrees to trade a mid-round draft pick to Buffalo for QB Tyrod Taylor, source tells ESPN. Taylor now will throw to new Browns’ WR Jarvis Landry. And Buffalo back in QB market. More on SportsCenter now.
3:00 PM - 9 Mar 2018
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Raptorman » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:08 pm

halfgiz wrote:Browns is out of the Cousins running.


@AdamSchefter

Browns strike again. This time, Cleveland agrees to trade a mid-round draft pick to Buffalo for QB Tyrod Taylor, source tells ESPN. Taylor now will throw to new Browns’ WR Jarvis Landry. And Buffalo back in QB market. More on SportsCenter now.
3:00 PM - 9 Mar 2018
Maybe so, but that puts Buffalo in it. The trade moves $18 million in cap space from Buffalo. Who will now have about $42 million in cap space.
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Next years QB

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:08 pm

Raptorman wrote:
halfgiz wrote:Browns is out of the Cousins running.


@AdamSchefter

Browns strike again. This time, Cleveland agrees to trade a mid-round draft pick to Buffalo for QB Tyrod Taylor, source tells ESPN. Taylor now will throw to new Browns’ WR Jarvis Landry. And Buffalo back in QB market. More on SportsCenter now.
3:00 PM - 9 Mar 2018
Maybe so, but that puts Buffalo in it. The trade moves $18 million in cap space from Buffalo. Who will now have about $42 million in cap space.
I will be utterly shocked if Cousins gives Buffalo even a cursory glance. I know they made the playoffs (for the first time in 17 years), but that's no fun up there in the land of lake-effect snow. It's not a well-run organization, and Sean McDermott is a defensive-minded coach who benched Tyrod Taylor for no good reason.

Denver seems to be positioning itself to make a play for Cousins with the Aquib Talib trade, but Vance Joseph is on the hot seat, and John Elway's track record with quarterbacks is pretty bad. Even Manning stunk the year they won it. The Jets are a hot mess of an organization, and every free agent knows it. They'll have to overpay for every free agent they attempt to sign.

To my mind, this comes down to Minnesota and Arizona. Cousins' sister lives in Phoenix, so that definitely could have some impact.

We'll see what happens, but if I were a Vegas oddsmaker, I'd put the Vikings in the lead with Arizona second.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by 808vikingsfan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:31 pm

Ovechkin8 wrote:Skins fan here. Since I'm a glutton for punishment I had to chime in here since I can't help myself and Skins drama is fun (pretty much all we have)

I have read Broncos and Jets message boards too in regards to Cousins and I find it fascinating so figured I'd give you guys some perspective.

I've watched 99.99% of every snap Cousins has taken as a Redskin. I've watched many multiple times as well. I also listen to Chris Cooley's weekly film breakdowns during the season (he's an uber smart and sharp guy as Coach Gibbs and Shanahan both have said)

Cousins - Top 12 QB easy. He's going to be the highest paid QB in NFL history but that will last for a few months and by this time next year there will be a few guys ahead of him. By year 3 he'll be in the middle of the pack in terms of pay. That's how the NFL works.

RE: "If he was so good why didn't the Redskins keep him??? He must suck if that sucky org let him go!!" - ummm wrong on so many levels. I've followed this saga since ground zero. Basically the Skins disrespected him from the start. Even in 2012 when he got his first start (since Griffin was hurt late in the Baltimore game the prior week) and SHREDDED a decent Cleveland team (they were actually on the rise back then). After the game the GM and Owner made for the locker room and walked right by him to console RGIII. It got worse from there including multiple insulting contract offers. His agent played it perfectly. IT WAS COUSINS THAT DID NOT WANT TO SIGN WITH THE SKINS OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

RE: "Teddy Bridgewater has more potential and cheaper!!!" - A few months ago the Skins knew they are losing Cousins so Cooley did an extensive film breakdown of every potential available QB who could work out for the skins. Results for Bridgewater were brutal. Injuries aside (he broke down the film PRE Injury) it was below average stuff and he graded out very poorly and cautioned we don't even think about signing. (for those who want to listen do a search on ESPN 980 Cooley breakdown Bridgewater). Sorry Bridgewater fans...he is not very good and carries significant injury risk now. For the record Cooley was impressed with Keenum for this past year.

RE: "Cousins sucks! Just look at his record!!" - Ok this is a terrible position to take. Our D (as has been stated by some) has been historically bad in many respects over the tenure of Cousins as a starter. Dumpster diving free agent signings (outside of a couple exceptions), lack of draft picks (due to RGIII trade) and still recovering from insane Salary Cap penalty ($36 mil over 2012 and 2013) during uncapped year. Without Cousins the Skins don't win but 3 or 4 games in each of last 3 years.

At one point our D was giving up 50% of 3rd and 7 or greater. one year they were the worst at that in NFL history (year before last)

RE: "He's a stat compiler! Garbage time stats!" - Not true at all. For most part Skins have played very close games over the last few years. This past year we had unbelievable injury luck and no weapons. Go back a couple years and take a sample of some of his best games (Bengals, Cowboys, Packers in 2016) We went 1-1-1 in those games. Cousins averaged 450 yards passing and was dominant. All games were close throughout and our D could not get off the field (We got 15 penalties in the Bengals game and our kicker missed several FGs over those 3 games). Against the Lions he brought the team back and took a 4pt lead with under a minute left on a great drive. Lions had no Time OUts but easily drove the field and won.

Can you win with Cousins at $30 mil per year? I don't know your cap situation as well as you all do. That's for you guys to figure out. But is Cousins a top 10 QB? To me and many skins fans he absolutely is.

Also there is not a harder worker and more impressive human being than this guy. Mike Shanahan has constantly been behind him even when guys like Colin Cowherd and even local media thought he was crazy (early in his first year as a starter for example): (look at the dates on some of these articles...way before Cousins took off)
No offense but this is very one sided and filled with opinions and irrelevant info.


Here's a thread I found on reddit. It's a good read on what we can expect if he lands here. Just to balance this discussion out, here's a paste of the top comment in that thread:
Nissanica 39 points 3 days ago*
If he’s forced to extend a play and make something happen, he’s below average.

So very true. The ability to go “off script” is HUGE in today’s pass happy NFL. Defensive backs simply cannot guard receivers for extended periods of time without taking a penalty. If I were giving a QB a contract like Kirk will get, I would want him to at least be average in this area.

To add a bit:

Rodgers, Wentz, Rothlisburger, Newton, Wilson, Watson and more have this ability. They don’t need a well executed play to consistently make good things happen, as they have the ability to do it on their own. The same cannot be said for Kirk most of the time.

Problem is, there’s so many areas he would have to improve in to do a better job in off script situations.

Processing speed (how quickly he can go through progressions - how quickly he can sense a reciever will have a step and be open)

Blitz recognition/Dealing with pressure (For the second season in a row he’s had issues throwing against pressure. He’s one of the leagues worst when throwing to the intermediate level while under pressure)

Pocket awareness (So many fumbles...Oh kirk..over 30 fumbles in 3 seasons...That is not good)

Ability to evade defenders (pretty much completely absent. If you get to the back field, you’ve got him)

So the keys for Kirk to succeed are pretty simple I think.

Have a smart offensive minded coach
Have an above average pass blocking O line
Have an excellent safety valve like Chris Thompson
Without those three things, Kirk either needs to develop a Peyton Manning like level of pre-snap intelligence or drastically increase his in-play processing speed to be worth what he is getting.

Edit: I should add, this post is about the vikings. In which case, Kirk will play well there. I’m expecting more 4,000+ yard seasons. He’ll still be a systematic guy. He’ll still throw picks, he’ll still fumble. But the Vikings are better equipped to deal with that than we were. They have the right boxes checked for him to have success. The vikings believe their window is now. I’d be fine with the Redskins paying $90 million for an above average guy if it meant two chances at an NFC title game within the next three year period. Any less than that....oh boy....
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Kirk led the league in interceptions while under pressure this past season, with 10 interceptions. And Kirk has over 30 fumbles in the past three seasons alone...just for comparisons sake, I think Alex Smith has about 60 total fumbles in over ten seasons (not sure of the exact figures for alex but i think im close)

That makes things simple for defenses, if you actually get to Kirk, you can either make him fumble or force him to make a bad throw. Obviously this is the goal with any QB, but Kirk’s fumble totals are alarming to say the least. And the interceptions aren’t a good look either.

I also think a few of the big reasons kirk did well against blitzes was due to the bootleg (which I thought kirk was actually really good at) and just having Chris Thompson around in general. So playcalling and team talent may have helped him a bit in that regard.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Redskins/comme ... ng_wisdom/
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:20 am

I bet Keenum goes to Buffalo.

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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:24 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Raptorman wrote:
halfgiz wrote:Browns is out of the Cousins running.


@AdamSchefter

Browns strike again. This time, Cleveland agrees to trade a mid-round draft pick to Buffalo for QB Tyrod Taylor, source tells ESPN. Taylor now will throw to new Browns’ WR Jarvis Landry. And Buffalo back in QB market. More on SportsCenter now.
3:00 PM - 9 Mar 2018
Maybe so, but that puts Buffalo in it. The trade moves $18 million in cap space from Buffalo. Who will now have about $42 million in cap space.
I will be utterly shocked if Cousins gives Buffalo even a cursory glance. I know they made the playoffs (for the first time in 17 years), but that's no fun up there in the land of lake-effect snow. It's not a well-run organization, and Sean McDermott is a defensive-minded coach who benched Tyrod Taylor for no good reason.

Denver seems to be positioning itself to make a play for Cousins with the Aquib Talib trade, but Vance Joseph is on the hot seat, and John Elway's track record with quarterbacks is pretty bad. Even Manning stunk the year they won it. The Jets are a hot mess of an organization, and every free agent knows it. They'll have to overpay for every free agent they attempt to sign.

To my mind, this comes down to Minnesota and Arizona. Cousins' sister lives in Phoenix, so that definitely could have some impact.

We'll see what happens, but if I were a Vegas oddsmaker, I'd put the Vikings in the lead with Arizona second.
I live 3 hours north of buffalo. It sucks here. We actually get even more snow than they do. It’s never ending
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:24 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:I bet Keenum goes to Buffalo.

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I think Denver but time will tell
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