Re: Next years QB
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:22 pm
I am not for paying best in the NFL money for an above average but not elite QB.
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Everything you said could be said about Case too. And Im guessing about 10 mil a year least. Why go fast over a QB thats showed nothing at crunch time?S197 wrote:Windows in the NFL are very real and are small. Just look at the last decade in the NFC. NINE different teams in 10 years have made the SB. Unless you're New England you don't have the luxury of building a perpetual contender. When you have your window, you go all in. You don't slow play because the nature of the salary cap is it's an equalizer.
Cousins is worth the risk. Look how long it's been since we've had any stability at QB. It's the last piece of the puzzle to get right.
Already explained along with a question that you refuse to answerPurpleKoolaid wrote:Everything you said could be said about Case too. And Im guessing about 10 mil a year least. Why go fast over a QB thats showed nothing at crunch time?S197 wrote:Windows in the NFL are very real and are small. Just look at the last decade in the NFC. NINE different teams in 10 years have made the SB. Unless you're New England you don't have the luxury of building a perpetual contender. When you have your window, you go all in. You don't slow play because the nature of the salary cap is it's an equalizer.
Cousins is worth the risk. Look how long it's been since we've had any stability at QB. It's the last piece of the puzzle to get right.
I'd be more inclined to want Keenum back if we still had Shurmur as the OC. The team is already not going to be the same because the main leader on offense is gone. With the way Bradford played under Shurmur and then Keenum, I think Shurmur had more to do with Keenum's year than Keenum himself. Keenum could easily slip back to his "journeyman" ways under DeFilippo. The fact that Spielman didn't jump at the opportunity to sign or tag our QB who got us to 13-3 speaks volumes of what the leadership really thinks of him. He had a magical year and I sure was rooting for him every minute of every game - but I think there's more evidence that he's not really the guy who put up MVP numbers especially considering we've already lost Shurmur.dead_poet wrote:My worry, as some have expressed, is his moderately better numbers compared to Case at a likely grossly higher salary. His performance under pressure is also cause for concern. He's not 5x or whatever better than Case and worse in some categories. I'd rather keep the TEAM together that would be better as a unit than a minor upgrade at QB at the expense of other positions.TSonn wrote:I agree. Cousins could be the guy to put this team over the top during the window, and, if he performs even better when he gets here, could extend that window a bit longer.S197 wrote:Windows in the NFL are very real and are small. Just look at the last decade in the NFC. NINE different teams in 10 years have made the SB. Unless you're New England you don't have the luxury of building a perpetual contender. When you have your window, you go all in. You don't slow play because the nature of the salary cap is it's an equalizer.
Cousins is worth the risk. Look how long it's been since we've had any stability at QB. It's the last piece of the puzzle to get right.
Well VMB, looks like Mr. Wilf has spoken! Or do you mean like you aren't going to go to games if Cousins is our QB? Or are you playing hypothetical and saying if you were the owner of the Vikings, you wouldn't sign Cousins?MrPurplenGold wrote:I am not for paying best in the NFL money for an above average but not elite QB.
If you already explained it and I refuse to to answer (which i rarely do, maybe not the way you wanted it answered though). You use certain stats, or points, yo justify who ever you want at the time. But it means nothing to the rest of us who have opinions too. Like why should Cousins be the highest paid QB when he has done squat as far as wins. Wins take you to the SB and allows you to win it. Along with good leadership skills. Over paying someone isnt going to get the job done.Pondering Her Percy wrote:Already explained along with a question that you refuse to answerPurpleKoolaid wrote:Everything you said could be said about Case too. And Im guessing about 10 mil a year least. Why go fast over a QB thats showed nothing at crunch time?S197 wrote:Windows in the NFL are very real and are small. Just look at the last decade in the NFC. NINE different teams in 10 years have made the SB. Unless you're New England you don't have the luxury of building a perpetual contender. When you have your window, you go all in. You don't slow play because the nature of the salary cap is it's an equalizer.
Cousins is worth the risk. Look how long it's been since we've had any stability at QB. It's the last piece of the puzzle to get right.
I doubt he meant he is taking out his checkbook and paying some salaries. It sounds to me he doesnt want to put 30 mil on a QB who hasnt proved anything other then he has to have an excellent team around him to many start putting some meaningful games together, instead of elevated the team its. Much like our backup QB did last season.TSonn wrote:Well VMB, looks like Mr. Wilf has spoken! Or do you mean like you aren't going to go to games if Cousins is our QB? Or are you playing hypothetical and saying if you were the owner of the Vikings, you wouldn't sign Cousins?MrPurplenGold wrote:I am not for paying best in the NFL money for an above average but not elite QB.
No, you didnt answer my question in any way possible. I asked you if you would take Matt Stafford or Derek Carr on this team for big money? And you've yet to answer.PurpleKoolaid wrote: If you already explained it and I refuse to to answer (which i rarely do, maybe not the way you wanted it answered though). You use certain stats, or points, yo justify who ever you want at the time. But it means nothing to the rest of us who have opinions too. Like why should Cousins be the highest paid QB when he has done squat as far as wins. Wins take you to the SB and allows you to win it. Along with good leadership skills. Over paying someone isnt going to get the job done.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I doubt he meant he is taking out his checkbook and paying some salaries. It sounds to me he doesnt want to put 30 mil on a QB who hasnt proved anything other then he has to have an excellent team around him to many start putting some meaningful games together, instead of elevated the team its. Much like our backup QB did last season.TSonn wrote:Well VMB, looks like Mr. Wilf has spoken! Or do you mean like you aren't going to go to games if Cousins is our QB? Or are you playing hypothetical and saying if you were the owner of the Vikings, you wouldn't sign Cousins?MrPurplenGold wrote:I am not for paying best in the NFL money for an above average but not elite QB.
Keenum put up those numbers on a great team.dead_poet wrote:My worry, as some have expressed, is his moderately better numbers compared to Case at a likely grossly higher salary. His performance under pressure is also cause for concern. He's not 5x or whatever better than Case and worse in some categories. I'd rather keep the TEAM together that would be better as a unit than a minor upgrade at QB at the expense of other positions.TSonn wrote:I agree. Cousins could be the guy to put this team over the top during the window, and, if he performs even better when he gets here, could extend that window a bit longer.S197 wrote:Windows in the NFL are very real and are small. Just look at the last decade in the NFC. NINE different teams in 10 years have made the SB. Unless you're New England you don't have the luxury of building a perpetual contender. When you have your window, you go all in. You don't slow play because the nature of the salary cap is it's an equalizer.
Cousins is worth the risk. Look how long it's been since we've had any stability at QB. It's the last piece of the puzzle to get right.
Uhh, I didn't say any of that in my post that you quoted?PurpleKoolaid wrote:What do you love about Cousins? Since you say his win/loss percentage is meaningless. Which is one of the very few times Ive heard that mentioned. Hand picking stats that work with your theories can only go so far. IF cousins is so effing good and WE SHOULD GO GET GET HIM, why can he improve the teams he is on? You going to blame that all on coaches, GM, other players, etc, but never Cousins? I dont think Cousins is trash, but he isnt the second coming of jesus like some here believe. How do you know Case cant get better with an even better team, and more time on that team? Thats right, you dont. I just dont want us to spend 10 mil a year over what the guy is worth because we paniced, just like we did when we got Sam. How did that work out for you?mansquatch wrote:I really do not see why this is so hard. QB is the most important position in the game. There is a top 10 guy on the market. We need a top 10 guy. DONE.
If that isn't enough, we are obviously in a SB window right now. If there was ever a time to pay for some talent, it is now.
On top of that, we are easily the most desirable landing spot for any QB. Keenum lit up this place with this roster. Imagine what a guy with some serious NFL moxy is going to do.
I really can't believe this is even a debate.
GO SIGN COUSINS!!!!
I don't think the cap space is much of a factor anyway. As usual, the Vikings are in pretty good position. They should be able to keep the players on the roster they want and add Cousins if that's what they want to do. I think the question is whether they would rather add cousins or 3 or 4 free agents who might be able to start at other positions over the next two years. Would you rather have Cousins and draft to try to fill holes at DT, OG, etc or would you rather upgrad those positions to strengths and retain a player like Keenum while drafting for the future of the position?mansquatch wrote: How much cap space are you willing to risk for the Lombardi Trophy? I think I've made my position on that question rather clear.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:No, you didnt answer my question in any way possible. I asked you if you would take Matt Stafford or Derek Carr on this team for big money? And you've yet to answer.PurpleKoolaid wrote: If you already explained it and I refuse to to answer (which i rarely do, maybe not the way you wanted it answered though). You use certain stats, or points, yo justify who ever you want at the time. But it means nothing to the rest of us who have opinions too. Like why should Cousins be the highest paid QB when he has done squat as far as wins. Wins take you to the SB and allows you to win it. Along with good leadership skills. Over paying someone isnt going to get the job done.
As for "big wins", he beat the Rams and Seattle this year BOTH on the road. In 2016, he beat the Giants (11-5 that year) on the road, the Eagles both times (even though they werent as good that year), and DEMOLISHED the Packers. Also, beat us if that carries any weight. Those arent "big wins"? If they arent then what do you define as "big wins"? Talk about using statistics that only benefit your argument. Even though saying that actually doesnt.
Also, how can you have a plethora of big wins when your defense is giving up the 28th most points in the NFL. Kirk Cousins absolutely shredded the Saints this year (on the road), threw 3 TDs, no INTs and put up 31 points. But lost. His defense gave up 34 points. That's on Kirk Cousins? Like I said, anti-Cousins fans continue to leave out the defensive aspect of all this time and time again. But "hey lets pay Case Keenum because he will be cheaper and got us to the NFCC!!!" Case Keenum played well and is my #2 option dont get me wrong but you know just as well as I do that he had a 10 times better TEAM around him than Cousins did. If Case Keenum of all QBs can succeed on a team like this, why cant Kirk Cousins? Answer me that.
What is Cousins suppose to do, win a SB with the 28th ranked defense in the NFL? Name me the last time a "bad defense" outside of the Brady/Belichik combo, won a SB. Or even made it there for that matter. AARON RODGERS cant even get there or win one anymore because his defense is so bad. Are we going to question him too?
As for making him the highest paid QB, you know how it goes (I would hope). This happens every year. It was Stafford. It was Flacco. It was Rodgers. It was Carr. It was Luck. It was Garoppolo. It will be Cousins. It will be Rodgers shortly after Cousins. It changes every year because the salary cap continues to rise. Joe Flacco was the highest paid player in the NFL after the SB. He is now the 15th highest paid QB. Perfect example of how often it changes. In a year or two Cousins is going to shoot back down the rankings again because more and more QBs are going to get new deals. QB's pay goes up as the NFL salary cap goes up. So saying he will be the highest paid in the NFL is overrated because that will soon quickly disappear just like it did with Flacco.
Again, I am NOT using "certain stats". I just used every passing category you could ask for during his 3 year stretch as a starter and he was within the top 10 in most of them and if he wasnt in the top 10, he was just outside of that. Obviously you didnt look at the stats otherwise you would know this. So I'll post them again:
Cousins in 2017:
7th in passing yards
10th in completion percentage
11th in average YPC
8th in TD passes
5th in passes of 20+ yards
9th in passes of 40+ yards
12th in QB rating
Cousins in 2016:
3rd in passing yards
8th in completion percentage
3rd in average YPC
13th in TD passes
2nd in passes of 20+ yards
4th in passes of 40+ yards
8th in QB rating
Cousins in 2015:
10th in passing yards
1st in completion percentage
8th in average YPC
T-12th in TD passes (he had 29 and leader had 36. Much closer than what it shows)
16th in passes of 20+ yards (was only 3 away from 8th. Also much closer than what it shows)
19th in passes of 40+ yards
5th in QB rating
....No nitpicking there.
I'd like to talk about offense too, now, because people just can't seem to get it through their head that there's three sides of the ball game (offense, defense, and special teams) and if you're awful at one of them, 9/10 times you're going to be a bad team.something Rhodes Closed wrote:Looking at those years, here's what we can glean from those seasons, defensively for the Redskins:
2015: 24 Points Against (17th)
2016: 24 Points Against (19th)
2017: 24 Points Against (27th)
On average, the defense gave up 24 points a game for three years in a row, which is not stellar defense. Comparatively, the Vikings in the same three seasons:
2015: 19 Points Against (5th)
2016: 19 Points Against (6th)
2017: 16 Points Against (1st)
The key difference is not that Cousins couldn't win, it's that the Redskins defenses always ranked amongst the lower half in the league, the most egregious of those years being this year, when they were downright awful. With our defense, Kirk Cousins would likely have been leading the Redskins to the playoffs every single one of those years. (I'm not even getting into our offenses, because the Redskins offenses were much better than ours bar 2017).