Next years QB

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PurpleKoolaid
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:17 pm

And how many wins does Cousins have? How many playoffs games has he won? SB's? Hows he been under must win games? Case did better this year as far as wins then Cousins ever did (i think). I am all for Cousins at a good price. Hes made 44 million in the past few years, if he wants a shot at the SB the Vikes are his best bet. But for closer to 25 mil a year. He wasnt even worth it to the Skins to keep, they went with Smith. Not a ringing endorsement of Cousins being an elite QB.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:21 pm

Mercy Percy wrote:GUY A, 3 season AVG

4345 YDS, 28.33 TDS 11 INTS

GUY B, 3 season AVG

4392 YDS, 27.0 TDS 12 INTS

GUY C, 3 season AVG

4210 YDS, 36.33 TDS 6.667 INTS

Bradford, Keenum, and Bridgewater have zero 4k yard seasons combined.

Matt Stafford is guy A

Kirk Cousins is guy B

Aaron Rodgers is guy C

Kirk Cousins is consistently in the upper tier of Qb's with much less on offense than our Viking team right now.
If Kirk makes it to the North, expect 4800 + Yds 30+ tds and 12 + INT's

If you believe another QB that we can sign, or draft will do that for us right now you are wrong. Kirk Cousins is the perfect fit at this moment and provides us with a top 10 QB.

There have been reports written simulating Cousins making 30M and us still being able to retain key guys who some claim we might lose. Trust in Spielman, he knows how badly Zimmer wants this defense in tact and Zimmer knows what a solid QB can do for his career.
I definitely believe Cousins is inside the top 10. And it drives me nuts when people says he's outside of the top 10.

Do these rankings put Kirk Cousins outside the top 10? No.

Cousins in 2017:

7th in passing yards

10th in completion percentage

11th in average YPC

8th in TD passes

5th in passes of 20+ yards

9th in passes of 40+ yards

12th in QB rating



Cousins in 2016:

3rd in passing yards

8th in completion percentage

3rd in average YPC

13th in TD passes

2nd in passes of 20+ yards

4th in passes of 40+ yards

8th in QB rating



Cousins in 2015:

10th in passing yards

1st in completion percentage

8th in average YPC

T-12th in TD passes (he had 29 and leader had 36. Much closer than what it shows)

16th in passes of 20+ yards (was only 3 away from 8th. Also much closer than what it shows)

19th in passes of 40+ yards

5th in QB rating


....Those are top 10 stats right there. He's just a good QB on a bad team. No different than Matt Stafford. Everyone wants to question Cousins because of his record but I know for a fact that anyone that is anti-Kirk would take Stafford on this team any day. Look at his record. Not good. Put Cousins around this team and not only does it make the team better but it makes Cousins better as a QB IMO
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Alaskan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:50 pm

Mercy Percy wrote:GUY A, 3 season AVG

4345 YDS, 28.33 TDS 11 INTS

GUY B, 3 season AVG

4392 YDS, 27.0 TDS 12 INTS

GUY C, 3 season AVG

4210 YDS, 36.33 TDS 6.667 INTS

Bradford, Keenum, and Bridgewater have zero 4k yard seasons combined.

Matt Stafford is guy A

Kirk Cousins is guy B

Aaron Rodgers is guy C

Kirk Cousins is consistently in the upper tier of Qb's with much less on offense than our Viking team right now.
If Kirk makes it to the North, expect 4800 + Yds 30+ tds and 12 + INT's

If you believe another QB that we can sign, or draft will do that for us right now you are wrong. Kirk Cousins is the perfect fit at this moment and provides us with a top 10 QB.

There have been reports written simulating Cousins making 30M and us still being able to retain key guys who some claim we might lose. Trust in Spielman, he knows how badly Zimmer wants this defense in tact and Zimmer knows what a solid QB can do for his career.
............And then he blows out his knee week 3 and is never the same......we still pay him his gaurenteed 70 or 80 million over 4 or 5 years and the struggle to find the "franchise guy" goes on for another decade. He's not worth the kind of money its gonna take to land him. I am totally out on the vikings going after Cousins. He's just not that good. Anyone can cherry pick stats to make him appear like the answer to every teams QB problems. At the end of the day, the Wins and Losses is what matters....... and he just hasn't been a winner......period. I mean WAS is moving on from him for Alex Smith.......Alex Smith......a middle of the road QB at best. What does that tell us about Kirk? I have been a big Speilman supporter, and I am confident he will make the right call on Cousins, if he chooses to pay him, I'll be surprised. I would be dissapointed in him as well, it sure doesn't fit the model he seems to have been following in building a team. He would lose my support, thats for sure, thats how strongly i feel about us avoiding Cousins.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Husker Vike » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:30 pm

Guys, this team is built to win now, we need to get this QB situation right. Is Cousins worth $30 mil. per year ?, What is Keenum worth? I don't know either, but I don't want to go into next season with question marks at the NFL's most valuable position.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:47 pm

Alaskan wrote:............And then he blows out his knee week 3 and is never the same......we still pay him his gaurenteed 70 or 80 million over 4 or 5 years and the struggle to find the "franchise guy" goes on for another decade. He's not worth the kind of money its gonna take to land him.
Good point. Last I heard (twitter), it was 3 years, 91M guaranteed. This franchise would take several steps backward if Cousins gets hurt. Talk about eggs in one basket.
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808vikingsfan
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Re: Next years QB

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:53 pm

Husker Vike wrote:Guys, this team is built to win now, we need to get this QB situation right. Is Cousins worth $30 mil. per year ?, What is Keenum worth? I don't know either, but I don't want to go into next season with question marks at the NFL's most valuable position.
Could it be that it just seems like this team is built to win now because the Vikings finally have a good head coach that is in sync with the FO?
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:04 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Husker Vike wrote:Guys, this team is built to win now, we need to get this QB situation right. Is Cousins worth $30 mil. per year ?, What is Keenum worth? I don't know either, but I don't want to go into next season with question marks at the NFL's most valuable position.
Could it be that it just seems like this team is built to win now because the Vikings finally have a good head coach that is in sync with the FO?
Doesn't matter. They are built to win jow, and they need to realize that. However that means they need to keep their good players too, they can't just have one player take up their entire salary cap. They need to re-sign Barr, Diggs, Kendricks, and others.

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:12 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:And how many wins does Cousins have? How many playoffs games has he won? SB's? Hows he been under must win games? Case did better this year as far as wins then Cousins ever did (i think). I am all for Cousins at a good price. Hes made 44 million in the past few years, if he wants a shot at the SB the Vikes are his best bet. But for closer to 25 mil a year. He wasnt even worth it to the Skins to keep, they went with Smith. Not a ringing endorsement of Cousins being an elite QB.
But you can’t really compare cousins to Case this year. One, Cousins crushes Case every year outside of this year. Two, Case was on a 10 times better team than Cousins was. Case had a running game, stud WRs, a good TE, decent OL and the #1 defense in the nfl. Cousins didn’t really have any of that at all and still went 7-9. Until Cousins is on this team or a good team, then we can compare him to Case. But those two weren’t even in the same conversation at this time last year. Literally miles apart. I don’t think anyone could sit here and say Cousins wouldn’t have gone 13-3 on this team last year if not more. I highly highly doubt it would’ve been worse than what Case did. Either way, there is no comparing the two. It’s comparing a possible one year wonder that no longer has the system here he succeeded in to a guy that’s been extremely consistent over the past 3 years. Something Case never, ever did.

I like Case and he’s my #2 option but I still take Cousins any day of the week over him
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Re: Next years QB

Post by 720pete » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:50 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:NFL teams are paying quarterbacks way too much
Only four quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl while accounting for at least 11% of their team’s cap room: Young, Peyton Manning (twice), Tom Brady and Eli Manning
Pretty good analysis. At 180M projected salary cap (sporttrac), 30M a year for Kirk Cousins would only be 6% of the salary cap. The question that isn't taken into consideration though, is if there is a continued decline in viewership on NFL games, will the precious upward trend in Salary cap space begin to decline.
What? 30/180 = 16.7%...
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Alaskan » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:07 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Alaskan wrote:............And then he blows out his knee week 3 and is never the same......we still pay him his gaurenteed 70 or 80 million over 4 or 5 years and the struggle to find the "franchise guy" goes on for another decade. He's not worth the kind of money its gonna take to land him.
Good point. Last I heard (twitter), it was 3 years, 91M guaranteed. This franchise would take several steps backward if Cousins gets hurt. Talk about eggs in one basket.
Wow! That is just crazy money for Cousins. He would need to carry a team for that kind of cash. Like Rodgers does the Packers.......and look what happened to them this year when he went down. 3 of the 4 teams in the NFC championship this year had middle of the road at best QB's.......but had solid TEAMS with depth across the board. Teams win championships in the NFL, not QB's. Sorry , I realize you where agreeing with my point, I just started ranting :lol:

All this crap about the Vikings being built to "win now" is all BS if you ask me. Fans create that crap storyline and the media feeds it. If the Vikings stick to the model of draft and develop, and fill in the some key gaps with some low risk FA acquisitions they can be a highly competitive FRANCHISE for a long long time with several great opportunities to bring home championships! The "win now" philosophy is shortsighted, stick to the plan/model and draft and develop the future!

Sorry 808, I got on a roll and I went with it :lol:
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Re: Next years QB

Post by mansquatch » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:05 am

If anything this year should have taught Vikings fans what Packer Fans have held their hat on for almost 3 decades: Great QB play can cover up/overcome all kinds of other problems. The Packers have taken this to the extreme, the rest of their team is basically garbage and yet they are favorite to win the division EVERY YEAR!

I'm frankly kind of surprised that people here are worried about how much we pay a guy like Cousins. Do people forgot the conversations on this board during the Jackson and Ponder eras where it was lamented that guys like Cousins are rarely available in FA? It is almost as if some have forgotten what the Vikings have been like in virtually every season since 2006. The best three years of QB play. '09, '16', and '17 were all cases where some guy they found came in and saved the day at that position. (One might argue this is the Vikings way, 1998 anyone?) Every other year was either awful or mediocre. Heck, we had a season where it was an improvement to start Gus Ferrotte!

Get the best QB and pay him. The rest will work itself out. The reality is even if the defense takes a step back, it won't matter as long as the offense gives them consistent support. As we've seen for the past 4 seasons, the Defense cannot be relied upon to be great all 16 games.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:57 am

mansquatch wrote:If anything this year should have taught Vikings fans what Packer Fans have held their hat on for almost 3 decades: Great QB play can cover up/overcome all kinds of other problems. The Packers have taken this to the extreme, the rest of their team is basically garbage and yet they are favorite to win the division EVERY YEAR!

I'm frankly kind of surprised that people here are worried about how much we pay a guy like Cousins. Do people forgot the conversations on this board during the Jackson and Ponder eras where it was lamented that guys like Cousins are rarely available in FA? It is almost as if some have forgotten what the Vikings have been like in virtually every season since 2006. The best three years of QB play. '09, '16', and '17 were all cases where some guy they found came in and saved the day at that position. (One might argue this is the Vikings way, 1998 anyone?) Every other year was either awful or mediocre. Heck, we had a season where it was an improvement to start Gus Ferrotte!

Get the best QB and pay him. The rest will work itself out. The reality is even if the defense takes a step back, it won't matter as long as the offense gives them consistent support. As we've seen for the past 4 seasons, the Defense cannot be relied upon to be great all 16 games.
Excellent post man! I've said this for years now on this board. Some fans have always crowned the packers and say how great their FO is and "look at the teams they built" blah blah. They arent that good. Without Rodgers they are actually really really bad. They havent had a RB worth a crap in quite some time now, their OL has been OK, Devante Adams is the only true WR on that team. Nelson is simply a product of Rodgers and it shows. Cobb has been average at best. TE has been weak for them and the worst part has been their defense. That front office cant draft defensive players to save their life.

Again, everyone crowns Rodgers as the best QB in the game, everyone gives the Packers the North before the season and many label them SB favorites. And guess what, they have been to and won one SB in ten years. Granted, it's better than us but at the same time, it's pathetic that they are favorites year after year and do nothing. The almighty Aaron Rodgers cant even bring his team to the promised land recently. That just goes to show that it's not all about the QB. Its about the TEAM. And the Packers TEAM sucks. Our TEAM on the other hand, is good on every level and both sides of the ball. So when you pair that combination with a legit QB, it's a recipe for a SB. And thats what we need to do and thats what I think we're going to do with Cousins.

I'm sick of playing musical chairs every year wondering who is going to start each week. Like you said, the rest will work itself out. Everyone is so worried about tearing the defense apart. Zim is a pro at drafting high end defensive talent and developing them. Does anyone really think that if we lose a player or two Zim is just going to settle with it and not draft talent or develop talent to fill those spots?

IMO, I dont see it as a "SB window". I see this team developing into a team like Pittsburgh thats continually in the running every year. Especially if we land Cousins. Mark my words, Kirk Cousins contract isnt going to break this team up. Spielman says they plan years ahead each offseason. They know what they're doing and if they have a hunch they might lose a player or two maybe down the road, dont be surprised if they hone in on that position during this draft.

Zim is ALWAYS going to have a good defense. No worries there. He's consistently had them over his career. So why are we so worried in that aspect? He'll keep developing guys and keep bringing in talent and this defense will keep its course. But while he does that, we need to secure this QB spot up. And Cousins is the guy to do it.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:17 pm

The big question a lot of bloggers, and even posters here have, is why OVERpay a QB who hasnt show much in the win column. We would do better without busting the bank, and hoping Case can improve even more. Last year he was just a backup, this year a lot of you who are now moaning over Cousins, thought Case should be MVP! Cousins hasnt proved to me he should be making as much as Wentz, Brady, Rogers, Brees, etc. But some fans of the Vikes think the sky is the limit for a QB who doesnt have many big wins, none at all really. Now if he were to come down to the 22+ mark, maybe a little higher, then hes worth a 3 years shot. IMO Zim has screwed up more on this team this year then Case did.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:34 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:The big question a lot of bloggers, and even posters here have, is why OVERpay a QB who hasnt show much in the win column. We would do better without busting the bank, and hoping Case can improve even more. Last year he was just a backup, this year a lot of you who are now moaning over Cousins, thought Case should be MVP! Cousins hasnt proved to me he should be making as much as Wentz, Brady, Rogers, Brees, etc. But some fans of the Vikes think the sky is the limit for a QB who doesnt have many big wins, none at all really. Now if he were to come down to the 22+ mark, maybe a little higher, then hes worth a 3 years shot. IMO Zim has screwed up more on this team this year then Case did.
But the problem is, just looking at the "win column" is a joke. His winning percentage is right with Matt Stafford, Derek Carr, Jared Goff, etc. Would nobody on here want any of those guys on this team on a big contract? Highly doubtful. They are all GOOD QBs that have been on BAD teams. Same goes for Cousins. Washington is a BAD team. Even Rodgers cant win it all recently because he's on a BAD team. Looking at Cousins' win/loss record shows me that you have very little football knowledge (not you specifically PK just in general). There is a lot more behind win/loss when it comes to QBs. They cant do it all. Only one I've seen do that by himself with little help from the rest of the team is probably Brady but I think that's more Belichik than anyone.

His win/loss shouldnt even be a factor at this point. Are we going to question Case's win/loss? Because outside of his one good year this year under a specific system, it sucks. Does anyone not think Kirk Cousins could beat the Saints, Rams, etc? Because he beat one on a bad team and lit up the other but his D gave up 34 points. Do we really think he couldnt do it on this team with this talent? Come on
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Re: Next years QB

Post by mansquatch » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:53 pm

I really do not see why this is so hard. QB is the most important position in the game. There is a top 10 guy on the market. We need a top 10 guy. DONE.

If that isn't enough, we are obviously in a SB window right now. If there was ever a time to pay for some talent, it is now.

On top of that, we are easily the most desirable landing spot for any QB. Keenum lit up this place with this roster. Imagine what a guy with some serious NFL moxy is going to do.

I really can't believe this is even a debate.

GO SIGN COUSINS!!!!
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