Next years QB

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Texas Vike
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Texas Vike » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:26 am

Not sure how I feel about it, if it's going to cost as much as is rumored:
Cousins is about to become the highest-paid player in the history of the NFL, and the numbers are going to be staggering. This kind of opportunity -- the ability to acquire a franchise quarterback in his prime without having to give up a draft pick -- comes around once in a generation.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2227 ... -offseason

:shock:

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Re: Next years QB

Post by JDLon » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:29 am

Vikes have a ton of cap space this year coming up and a ton of big contracts the year after...so some sort of tag for Keenum makes sense to give him another year to prove it wasn't a fluke along with a deal for Bridgewater (i'd expect $7-8m a year for a couple of years) while we have the luxury of cap space to further evaluate them. Then let them fight it out for the number 1 spot and contract going forwards. I'd be surprised if anything other than this shakes out unless someone makes Bridgewater a big offer but Zimmer loves him and I think that will hold sway with him.

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:09 am

akvikingsfan wrote:Can someone please fill me in on why we’re so fascinated by Cousins? He had an outstanding year in 2016 (almost 5,000 yards) and two other 4,000 yard seasons. But he doesn’t win. In those three seasons the Skins were 9-7, 8-7-1, and 7-9. I don’t think he’s worth the kind of money people are talking about and I believe his stats have been inflated from putting up yards late in games when the Skins were losing (I don’t know this for a fact, it’s an assumption I’m making), similar to Stafford. Now, I don’t follow the Skins and haven’t watched many of their games, so if there’s something I’m missing please let me know, but I just don’t see why we want to spend $20mil/year on him.
And in the last 3 seasons, the Redskins have had the 21st, 28th and 28th total defenses. Along with no running game and up and down WR play. No less their OL got demolished this year. And he still managed .500 records. He cant do it all himself

Yet some guys on here are ok with just rolling with Teddy next year and drafting a guy? What has Teddy proved? Oh and did I mention Kirk Cousins didnt almost lose his leg to an injury?
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Re: Next years QB

Post by TSonn » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:28 am

Sure, the difference between 2017 Cousins and 2017 Keenum isn't that great. But the difference between 2012-2017 Cousins and 2012-2017 Keenum is gigantic. If the Vikings believe that Keenum can keep up his level of play in 2017, sign Keenum for 5-10M a year cheaper than Cousins. If they have any belief that Keenum can't continue his 2017 pace, make a move for Cousins.

Also - it's true that Cousins doesn't move the needle as much as someone like Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees in that he can't take a bottom 5 team to the playoffs consistently, but he has the ability to change a what-would-be 4-12 team into an 8-8 team. Or in our case, with our defense and weapons, he could turn a 10-6 team into a 12-4 team consistently. Who knows about the playoffs, though, since he doesn't have much experience there...

I don't think we should even be discussing Teddy as our starter for 2018. I hope the Vikings leadership isn't. Even when healthy, Teddy never played as well as Keenum or put up stats anywhere close to what Keenum did in 2017. Anyone who thinks Teddy can come in a replicate (or play better than) 2017 Keenum is just purely speculating. I can see the argument that Teddy had to play through AD, had a crappy offensive line, and didn't nearly have the weapons on offense, but to assume he would be able to take advantage of those things and become an MVP candidate is at best wishful thinking and at worst a little delusional.

Edited to add: if the Vikings feel confident that Bradford's knee is healthy and he can move and play like he did in 2016, sign him over Cousins and Keenum.

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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleMustReign » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:26 pm

ChicagoViking wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:The look on his face when he led the SKOL chant after the TD against the Saints convinced me that he deserves a chance to get the job done here.
Really? The look on his face when he led the Skol chant? That's the bar for whether Keenum deserves a chance to get the job done here?
You completely missed my point, but that's ok.

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Re: Next years QB

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:07 pm

Cliff wrote:I don't see Cousins as a big improvement over Keenum. I think the total yards numbers are very misleading when comparing the two players. Case had 59 fewer attempts and a *lot* fewer "garbage time" yards as the Vikings were running at the end of games mostly not passing against weaker prevent situations. Case had the higher rating last year, completion percentage.

When comparing Cousins and Keenum it seems like you might as well go with the guy who already has a relationship with the team and receivers. Of course if you believe Keenum's performance was a fluke rather than an elongated progression to become a better player - five years to 'blossom' instead of the normal three that people tend to look for - then Cousins makes sense. Otherwise I just don't see it.
Cliff, I'd be right there with you if not for Case's falloff at the end of the season. He had a mediocre game against a bad Green Bay defense, another mediocre game against a pretty good Bears defense, an up-and-down game against the Saints, and then the total-team meltdown against Philly.

I was one of the first to jump on the Case bandwagon. I love the guy. But Kirk Cousins didn't have near the receiving talent Case had, and their O-line was really horrible. He's got a ton of arm talent, he's a hard worker and a good leader. It's just tough. I think I know what we'd have with Case. I'm pretty sure of what we'd have with Cousins.

Let's just say I wouldn't be upset with either as the Vikings' quarterback. But I'll be pretty upset with neither.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Dames » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:48 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Cliff, I'd be right there with you if not for Case's falloff at the end of the season. He had a mediocre game against a bad Green Bay defense, another mediocre game against a pretty good Bears defense, an up-and-down game against the Saints, and then the total-team meltdown against Philly.
That's my concern too. He didn't really have any really bad games, except for Philly, but he did so little at the end of the year, which is when teams have the most film on him. I can't help but think that's significant. I don't know for sure that's the reason for the decline, but it doesn't give me warm fuzzies. Even in the Saints game, he did next to nothing. A lot of stats came on that final play, and his bad interception was significant. He's a guy I want to root for, but I'm scared. I'd prefer something less risky. Was a blast this year though.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by ChicagoViking » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:15 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
ChicagoViking wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:The look on his face when he led the SKOL chant after the TD against the Saints convinced me that he deserves a chance to get the job done here.
Really? The look on his face when he led the Skol chant? That's the bar for whether Keenum deserves a chance to get the job done here?
You completely missed my point, but that's ok.
I got your point, but decided I wanted to give you sh!t anyway.

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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:57 pm

I just dont know how we can maintain our defense if we sign Cousins to big money. Sure I would like him, but it could kill our team in the next coming years. That is my worry. I think no matter what, drafting a QB is a must. But if they think they can somehow swing it and sign Cousins do it. But I'm starting to think the Jets will be hard to beat out. Their OC was from the Shanahan era. That could have a huge impact on everything
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Re: Next years QB

Post by TSonn » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:38 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I just dont know how we can maintain our defense if we sign Cousins to big money. Sure I would like him, but it could kill our team in the next coming years. That is my worry. I think no matter what, drafting a QB is a must. But if they think they can somehow swing it and sign Cousins do it. But I'm starting to think the Jets will be hard to beat out. Their OC was from the Shanahan era. That could have a huge impact on everything
I guess I think of it this way - is Barr worth a franchise QB? My answer is no. Way easier to find a replacement for Barr than it is to find a franchise QB in his prime. Of course I don't want to lose ALL of the defense, but if it means losing 1 guy (most likely Barr or Waynes or Hunter), I do it.

The only guys on D I wouldn't "trade" for a franchise QB would be Rhodes and Smith.

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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:15 pm

TSonn wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:I just dont know how we can maintain our defense if we sign Cousins to big money. Sure I would like him, but it could kill our team in the next coming years. That is my worry. I think no matter what, drafting a QB is a must. But if they think they can somehow swing it and sign Cousins do it. But I'm starting to think the Jets will be hard to beat out. Their OC was from the Shanahan era. That could have a huge impact on everything
I guess I think of it this way - is Barr worth a franchise QB? My answer is no. Way easier to find a replacement for Barr than it is to find a franchise QB in his prime. Of course I don't want to lose ALL of the defense, but if it means losing 1 guy (most likely Barr or Waynes or Hunter), I do it.

The only guys on D I wouldn't "trade" for a franchise QB would be Rhodes and Smith.
There’s no way I let go Waynes or Hunter either. That’s the tough part.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Raptorman » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:19 pm

When talking about Cousins and cap space keep one thing in mind. Between Case, Teddy and Sam, the Vikings had $22.1 million tied up in cap space for those three in 2017.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by TSonn » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:25 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
TSonn wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:I just dont know how we can maintain our defense if we sign Cousins to big money. Sure I would like him, but it could kill our team in the next coming years. That is my worry. I think no matter what, drafting a QB is a must. But if they think they can somehow swing it and sign Cousins do it. But I'm starting to think the Jets will be hard to beat out. Their OC was from the Shanahan era. That could have a huge impact on everything
I guess I think of it this way - is Barr worth a franchise QB? My answer is no. Way easier to find a replacement for Barr than it is to find a franchise QB in his prime. Of course I don't want to lose ALL of the defense, but if it means losing 1 guy (most likely Barr or Waynes or Hunter), I do it.

The only guys on D I wouldn't "trade" for a franchise QB would be Rhodes and Smith.
There’s no way I let go Waynes or Hunter either. That’s the tough part.
We are going to lose defensive players over the next 4 years. We won't be able to keep this core in tact longer than that. All the more reason to get a franchise QB to take advantage of this championship window. Plus, I have way more confidence in Zimmer finding and coaching up another DB, LB, or DE through the draft than I have in him finding and coaching up a franchise QB through the draft (or on the roster).

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Re: Next years QB

Post by Boon » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:41 pm

TSonn wrote:
We are going to lose defensive players over the next 4 years. We won't be able to keep this core in tact longer than that. All the more reason to get a franchise QB to take advantage of this championship window. Plus, I have way more confidence in Zimmer finding and coaching up another DB, LB, or DE through the draft than I have in him finding and coaching up a franchise QB through the draft (or on the roster).
Good point. Im all for drafting a qb but reality of the situation says we have a really good window to win one in the next three years. They can lock up barr and grab cousins easily. Question is do they want to. If cousins wants to be greedy then so be it

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Re: Next years QB

Post by S197 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:46 pm

JDLon wrote:Vikes have a ton of cap space this year coming up and a ton of big contracts the year after...so some sort of tag for Keenum makes sense to give him another year to prove it wasn't a fluke along with a deal for Bridgewater (i'd expect $7-8m a year for a couple of years) while we have the luxury of cap space to further evaluate them. Then let them fight it out for the number 1 spot and contract going forwards. I'd be surprised if anything other than this shakes out unless someone makes Bridgewater a big offer but Zimmer loves him and I think that will hold sway with him.
In that scenario you're basically putting $30M into your QBs, may as well give Cousins or Brees $30M in that situation.

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