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 Next years QB 
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Post Re: Next years QB
Lamar Jackson, dude is a baller. Extremely mobile. Get a OC thats good with QB's and throw him to the wolves


Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
Mothman wrote:
Rock45 wrote:
Yeah, We can't judge the entire season from a couple of bad games. But my question is this: How many plays per game is a healthy Bradford better than a healthy Case or Teddy? I'm going to say about 5 to 7.


Perhaps but I think it's also fair to consider that he might be good for several more negative plays per game too due to a lack of mobility. He's definitely the best passer of the 3 though.



I understand your concern. I'm saying 5 to 7 despite him not being the most fleet footed qb in the league.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:03 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
Mothman wrote:
Rock45 wrote:
Yeah, We can't judge the entire season from a couple of bad games. But my question is this: How many plays per game is a healthy Bradford better than a healthy Case or Teddy? I'm going to say about 5 to 7.


Perhaps but I think it's also fair to consider that he might be good for several more negative plays per game too due to a lack of mobility. He's definitely the best passer of the 3 though.


Some of us like Sam and wish he could stay healthy. Some of us thought the trade was smart.

The dude disagrees with you. So do I. Get over it.


I really hate it when people like to tell others what to do. I am over it. Hoping Rick is too. Let someone else pay for an injury prone QB who cant stay on the field. Every team that has had him wishes he could stay healthy but guess what, he cant. Maybe we should all run our posts by you and PHP before we post anything.[/quote]

For what's it's worth, I agree with you about Bradford. For that matter, I also agree with Kapp to the extent that I like Bradford. However, I think the lesson to be learned from Bradford's career to this point is that he's probably not worth the money. In the end there's a good chance that trade will end up as a first round draft pick poorly spent by the Vikings.

The more I look at the Vikes QB situation the more I wonder if, rather than having 3 potential long term starters hitting free agency, they might have zero. I'm not sure about Keenum. It may be that this year represented a "turn of the corner" for him but there's not one QB among those 3 to whom I'd give a lucrative, long-term contract this offseason. I hope they will take a hard look at free agency and the draft as well as at these 3 players.[/quote]

Jim just wondering who will be available in FA? I like Smith but rumor has it Andy Reid wants two # 2's for him.
I really don't want to give up more draft picks.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:07 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
halfgiz wrote:
Jim just wondering who will be available in FA? I like Smith but rumor has it Andy Reid wants two # 2's for him.
I really don't want to give up more draft picks.


It's a good question. I'm not sure which QBs will actually hit free agency. There are all sorts of rumors flying around. I doubt Brees ends up anywhere other than New Orleans. Cousins might hit the market but that situation between him and Washington is weird and unpredictable. The 49ers will probably sign Garoppolo. A.J. McCarron could end up being available. What he's worth is debatable but at the right price, he's at least intriguing. There are even rumors that Bortles could end up being available but I'd be surprised if that turns out to be the case.

I'm not eager to see the Vikes trade high draft picks for Smith either.

I don't know what they're going to do! It's not a great situation.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:26 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
The trickiest part of all of this is the vacancy at OC, which leaves our Defensively focused HC in a pickle.

I get the impression that the Vikings won't make a decision regarding their QB quandary until they have hired their OC. Zimmer's success or failure, IMO, will hinge on this decision. Huge offseason... lots of things for fans to chew on!


Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:56 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
Texas Vike wrote:
The trickiest part of all of this is the vacancy at OC, which leaves our Defensively focused HC in a pickle.

I get the impression that the Vikings won't make a decision regarding their QB quandary until they have hired their OC.


I think it's almost certain to work out that way. It's logical and I doubt they'll get to the QB situation resolved until free agency draws near (if not after it begins). I imagine they'll want an OC in place before the combine.

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Zimmer's success or failure, IMO, will hinge on this decision. Huge offseason... lots of things for fans to chew on!


It's big!


Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:48 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
Random QB thoughts:

Keenum might be smart to leave in that some team might make him a far over valued offer and then Keenum gets paid starting top 10 QB money, if only for a few seasons. Guy gets paid. On the downside, and I think he knows this, not every team in the NFL will have the talent on offense the Vikings can surround him with. However, the Vikings are also not likely to over pay him. This depends on how Keenum views the long game. Also who they hire as OC...

TB has everything to gain and everything to lose by leaving. Like Keenum he will benefit from the surrounding cast in MN. However, unlike Keenum his resume isn't as complete as his regular season performance was 14TD/9INT. In this sense he has greater incentive to leave so he can have the opportunity to prove it and get back on the gravy train. For this reason, I think if he is not given a strong shot at the starting job, I think he leaves. He is way too young to be a career back-up in the NFL. The X-Factor here is the well known fact that Mike Zimmer loves Teddy. That might carry weight.

Bradford is, IMO, in a similar boat to TB, but he actually has a superior resume. I wouldn't be surprised to see him stick around, especially if that knee is healthy. I think the Vikings feel if he can stay upright for a full season then he gives them far more juice on offense than the other two guys because of his talent as a thrower. Downside is he does the least to help the protection. Still, if he can be on the field consistently then he is the BEST QB on the roster.

I think if their knees are both able to get them on the field, ie equal, then Bradford > Bridgewater. Of course that glosses over the real concern for both of them, which is the knee health. The Training / Medical staff REALLY needs to earn it's paycheck here.

My sense is that giving up draft picks for Alex Smith would be stupid. Is he really that much of an upgrade over Keenum? To me this is giving up Keenum's 2-4 bad throws a game in exchange for also giving up his 2-4 great throws since Smith is so conservative. I dobut we have a MPLS Miracle with Alex Smith. Of course we might not have the pick that lead to us needing it. I'm not feeling that, I'd rather keep the picks and maybe give Keenum a front loaded deal. Also, Keenum has Moxie in the huddle, what does Smith bring in terms of intangibles? My sense is maybe these guys are push, maybe not. I HIGHLY dobut that Smith brings enough to the table to justify giving up draft picks for him.

Drew Brees is, obvious to everyone, the best option. Getting him out of NO would be a miracle. I'm sure everyone here already knows this.

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Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:58 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
halfgiz wrote:
So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.


No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.

I see a lot of reservations about Bradford, but my point with Bradford is he could be signed to a very cap-friendly prove-it deal. His injury history ensures nobody is going to give him a big multi-year deal as a starter, so he can be had for much less than his talent-level would otherwise dictate.

It's a relatively high reward, low-risk move to bring him back as long as the Vikings have a viable backup. In my view, that is almost more critical going into next year than finding a starter, whether that starter is Bradford or someone else. This last season the Vikes had happened largely on the strength of the 3rd string QB signed for what, $2 million per year? Whether the starter ends up being Bradford, Cousins, or someone we've never even heard of, that backup QB could loom large. Hopefully Spielman and Zimmer and whomever the OC ends up being make the right moves here, because with the maturity of the defense and the overall talent level on this team, getting the right guys at the starting and backup QB positions is going to be critical to their chances next year.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:06 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
Mothman wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
Jim just wondering who will be available in FA? I like Smith but rumor has it Andy Reid wants two # 2's for him.
I really don't want to give up more draft picks.


It's a good question. I'm not sure which QBs will actually hit free agency. There are all sorts of rumors flying around. I doubt Brees ends up anywhere other than New Orleans.


PFT reported that Brees stated he would not go anywhere else. He wants to stay a Saint.

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Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:28 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
Boon wrote:
Lamar Jackson, dude is a baller. Extremely mobile. Get a OC thats good with QB's and throw him to the wolves


Don't know a lot about the draft prospects yet but this guy is intriguing to me. I always fall in love with the mobile quarterbacks with Cannon arms. From what I've read about Jackson I'm not sure I'd want to start him in year one though.

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Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:45 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
VikingLord wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.


No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.

I see a lot of reservations about Bradford, but my point with Bradford is he could be signed to a very cap-friendly prove-it deal. His injury history ensures nobody is going to give him a big multi-year deal as a starter, so he can be had for much less than his talent-level would otherwise dictate.

It's a relatively high reward, low-risk move to bring him back as long as the Vikings have a viable backup. In my view, that is almost more critical going into next year than finding a starter, whether that starter is Bradford or someone else. This last season the Vikes had happened largely on the strength of the 3rd string QB signed for what, $2 million per year? Whether the starter ends up being Bradford, Cousins, or someone we've never even heard of, that backup QB could loom large. Hopefully Spielman and Zimmer and whomever the OC ends up being make the right moves here, because with the maturity of the defense and the overall talent level on this team, getting the right guys at the starting and backup QB positions is going to be critical to their chances next year.


Rumors are that Cards are intrested in Bradford. Their problem this year, is they don't have a high draft pick to try and draft a QB.
Bradford wants paid and he will probably wait until after Cousins and Smith are signed.

Jim I also heard Haley and the Browns are interested in Alex Smith.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
VikingLord wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.


No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.


I see a lot of reservations about Bradford, but my point with Bradford is he could be signed to a very cap-friendly prove-it deal. His injury history ensures nobody is going to give him a big multi-year deal as a starter, so he can be had for much less than his talent-level would otherwise dictate.

It's a relatively high reward, low-risk move to bring him back as long as the Vikings have a viable backup. In my view, that is almost more critical going into next year than finding a starter, whether that starter is Bradford or someone else. This last season the Vikes had happened largely on the strength of the 3rd string QB signed for what, $2 million per year? Whether the starter ends up being Bradford, Cousins, or someone we've never even heard of, that backup QB could loom large. Hopefully Spielman and Zimmer and whomever the OC ends up being make the right moves here, because with the maturity of the defense and the overall talent level on this team, getting the right guys at the starting and backup QB positions is going to be critical to their chances next year.


Couldn't agree more with the bolded part, that's exactly how I feel. On weaker teams that ask him to do more with weaker O-lines he's been lack luster. On a team like the Vikings, that doesn't get exposed as much until you have injuries and play top tier competition.

With that said, what if we franchised Case and paid him that 22 million just to back up either Teddy or Sam, depending on who actually has a chance to be healthy and who the new OC likes? Is that too much of a dick move? On one hand we'd be paying him a ton to do nothing but these guys always want to compete and play so it might still be bad juju.

Why we'd do it is because we can probably get Sam or Teddy on a cheaper 1 year "prove it" deal and if they do prove it, then the year after that we just move that Keenum money over to Sam or Teddy. Of course we also get the exact same situation we had this year with a back up capable of taking over and not ending our season immediately if the worst case scenario goes down.

I haven't looked into all the possible options, there are probably other back ups we could bring in if we wanted to go that route for cheaper but thought it was interesting.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:34 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
I think were the Vikings have leverage is that they have three quarterbacks who are roughly the same for different reasons ( some have better accuracy some have better health) and they should be able to use that to get the one that is most reasonable in their contract demands. I'd be okay if they didn't bring any of them back. I definitely wouldn't bring more than one back and then I would draft one and keep Sloter.

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Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:57 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
They will go with Teddy, the hometown favorite and "good guy", and the logistical worst of the 3. Book it.


Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
Rock45 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Rock45 wrote:
Yeah, We can't judge the entire season from a couple of bad games. But my question is this: How many plays per game is a healthy Bradford better than a healthy Case or Teddy? I'm going to say about 5 to 7.


Perhaps but I think it's also fair to consider that he might be good for several more negative plays per game too due to a lack of mobility. He's definitely the best passer of the 3 though.



I understand your concern. I'm saying 5 to 7 despite him not being the most fleet footed qb in the league.



Understood and you may be right about that. It's hard to quantify but as i said, he sis definitely th superior passer among the 3 QBs.


Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:14 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
mosscarter wrote:
They will go with Teddy, the hometown favorite and "good guy", and the logistical worst of the 3. Book it.


:lol: I confess, I'm braced for that exact outcome. I hope you're wrong though.


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Post Re: Next years QB
Boon wrote:
Lamar Jackson, dude is a baller. Extremely mobile. Get a OC thats good with QB's and throw him to the wolves


There's a handful of good QB's in the draft this year. 2 Heisman winners in Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield. Then there's two quality candidates in Josh Rosen and Mason Rudolph. I like Lamar, but I don't think he could start right away in a pro system. I have no doubts about the other 3 though, any of them could start immediately. Scouts really like Wyoming qb Josh Allen whom I haven't watched at all. The senior bowl comes on today. Allen and Mayfield are listed as qb's for the North team according to this site here: http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2018 ... to_wa.html
Might be an interesting game to watch. At any-rate none of this really matters because I think all 4 of those guys will probably go in the draft before we get to pick.


Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:17 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
VikingLord wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.


No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.


.


I agree with this. All three quarterbacks have their issues and I don't know that any of the three can take the Vikings to the super bowl. Bradford has knee issues that may end his career early. Keenum has more bad game tape than good for the totality of his career and we have probably seen his ceiling. And no one really knows how good bridgewater is or can be. I don't think the Vikings are going to be able to bring two of them back unless they franchise keenum. However, if you're bridgewater and the Vikings franchise keenum, it would almost be in his best interest to sign elsewhere on a year deal with a team that's probably going to draft a QB so he can prove his self for a better deal in 2019. The low risk high reward choice is Teddy. The safe but unspectacular pick would be keenum and the high risk high reward pick would be Bradford. It just depends on what type of gambling man Zimmer is.


Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:02 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
MrPurplenGold wrote:
Bradford has knee issues that may end his career early.

Even if we thought he was over his knee issues, his lack of mobility is also a major problem. While the Vikes' O-Line was MUCH improved this season over last, at least 4-5 times a game, Keenum extended the play with his mobility and ability to escape pressure (though we saw almost none of that mobility in the final two games). What Bradford brings to the table is arguably the prettiest most accurate ball in the NFL.


Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
ChicagoViking wrote:
MrPurplenGold wrote:
Bradford has knee issues that may end his career early.

Even if we thought he was over his knee issues, his lack of mobility is also a major problem. While the Vikes' O-Line was MUCH improved this season over last, at least 4-5 times a game, Keenum extended the play with his mobility and ability to escape pressure (though we saw almost none of that mobility in the final two games). What Bradford brings to the table is arguably the prettiest most accurate ball in the NFL.


That makes it a simple question. What Qbs win more super bowls mobile ones or pocket passers? its rhetorical.

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Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:14 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
Chicago Viking is deadly accurate that analysis and that is why I like Keenum and I would be happy if they franchise him. He can make things happen outside of the pocket and that is a great weapon to have. Bradford is like a statue back there.


Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:08 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
S197 wrote:
Just thinking out loud but lets not forget Payton was very non-committal to Brees after the loss. Offer him a stupid amount of money and go all in next year. McKinnon may be the only guy we need to sign this free agency. A lot more guys the following year but for at least one more season the team is mostly in tact. You can find interior lineman like Elflein in 2nd & 3rd rounds.

Show Brees he'll have a o-line. He already knows he'll have Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph. Not to mention Dalvin Cook. Plus a defense. I know the guy loves NO but it's not that improbable.


They're not going to make any decisions on a QB until they know what is available externally.

McKinnon made the statement he wants a bigger role next year he is going to look around.


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Jerick McKinnon said he appreciated his role this season with the Vikings, but as he heads to free agency, he’d ideally like to go somewhere he can be the featured back: “I want bigger and better things for myself. We’ll see what happens.” #Vikings


With Cook back, we would have no need for Mckinnon.


Still need a third down back, preferably one that can pass protect. Not something McKinnon did very well.

James White or someone like that would be ideal.


Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
I think Garropolo is also a FA.


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Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:55 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
mosscarter wrote:
Chicago Viking is deadly accurate that analysis and that is why I like Keenum and I would be happy if they franchise him. He can make things happen outside of the pocket and that is a great weapon to have. Bradford is like a statue back there.



I think Keenum benefitted from familiarity with Shurmur's system--he will have to learn a new system, and I don't know how much confidence I would have in him with a new OC. To an extent the same can be said about Bradford.

I want Teddy to be the guy; however, even Keenum makes throws (i.e Rudolph TD in NFC title game) that I haven't seen Teddy make.

I know they are a playoff team, but without a viable QB that's all they are. It's not popular opinion but I would trade up and draft Darnold, Rosen, or Allen


Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:46 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
ocampo82 wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
Chicago Viking is deadly accurate that analysis and that is why I like Keenum and I would be happy if they franchise him. He can make things happen outside of the pocket and that is a great weapon to have. Bradford is like a statue back there.



I think Keenum benefitted from familiarity with Shurmur's system--he will have to learn a new system, and I don't know how much confidence I would have in him with a new OC. To an extent the same can be said about Bradford.

I want Teddy to be the guy; however, even Keenum makes throws (i.e Rudolph TD in NFC title game) that I haven't seen Teddy make.

I know they are a playoff team, but without a viable QB that's all they are. It's not popular opinion but I would trade up and draft Darnold, Rosen, or Allen

Keenum wasn’t familiar to Shurmur's system. It was all new to him the beginning of the season.


SkolScot wrote:
I think Garropolo is also a FA.


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I doubt if the 49ers is going to let Garropolo hit the market. They are already building shrines for him out there. :lol:


Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:46 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
MrPurplenGold wrote:
Keenum has more bad game tape than good for the totality of his career and we have probably seen his ceiling.

I don't see how anyone who watched this season could possibly make a statement like that.

Your comment is eerily similar to all the "we know who Case Keenum is" comments we heard throughout the season. Funny, but the guy just kept getting better. He was barely on the team at OTAs, and he was third-string at training camp -- with nobody even sure he could hold off Taylor Heineke. He didn't know he was making his first start until 30 minutes before gametime. And he went 11-3.

Also, Keenum's issues tend to be those of the occasional bad decision. Decision-making is often directly associated with experience.

As for "more bad game tape than good for the totality of his career," don't look now, but Case Keenum is 21-19 including the playoffs. This from a guy who started 0-8. Even Drew Brees started 10-17. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

I'd like to see the Vikings do one of two things. Either put the franchise tag on Keenum, or go get somebody like Kirk Cousins. Play to win now. We have the roster.

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Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Next years QB
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
MrPurplenGold wrote:
Keenum has more bad game tape than good for the totality of his career and we have probably seen his ceiling.

I don't see how anyone who watched this season could possibly make a statement like that.

Your comment is eerily similar to all the "we know who Case Keenum is" comments we heard throughout the season. Funny, but the guy just kept getting better. He was barely on the team at OTAs, and he was third-string at training camp -- with nobody even sure he could hold off Taylor Heineke. He didn't know he was making his first start until 30 minutes before gametime. And he went 11-3.

Also, Keenum's issues tend to be those of the occasional bad decision. Decision-making is often directly associated with experience.

As for "more bad game tape than good for the totality of his career," don't look now, but Case Keenum is 21-19 including the playoffs. This from a guy who started 0-8. Even Drew Brees started 10-17. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

I'd like to see the Vikings do one of two things. Either put the franchise tag on Keenum, or go get somebody like Kirk Cousins. Play to win now. We have the roster.



I'm not sure why it's unreasonable to say Keenum may have hit his ceiling. He hit statistical highs on his 3rd team and his 5th year in the league. He also was not as effective at the end of the year and the playoffs as he was in the beginning of the year. That leads me to believe that he probably peaked early in the year. Keenum's value coming into 2017 was a one year 2 million dollar deal as a back up to Sam Bradford. The league didn't seem to value him very highly for a reason. He played well for the Vikings in 2017 and helped them get to the NFC championship game, which no one can take from him. Only time will tell where his career will be 5 years from now. My guess, based on the entirety of his career and historical data for previous QBs who were one year wonders, is that he won't have another year like he did this year. Though I accept the fact that I could be wrong.


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Post Re: Next years QB
MrPurplenGold wrote:
The league didn't seem to value him very highly for a reason.

Again, it's the same thing everybody was saying back in October and November. It's an overused sound byte that really doesn't say very much.

I can virtually guarantee you, the league will value Case Keenum more highly after the season he just had. And the team leading the way may just be the Minnesota Vikings.

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Post Re: Next years QB
I made this comment earlier, but apparently people didn't read it:

Keenum is at a cross roads. IMO he has two basic scenarios:

1.) Take the biggest contract offered and get paid, even if it is a lower tier club. The risk here is that without a strong supporting cast his number will likely regress and he probably will not play out his whole contract.

2.) Stay with the Vikings or some other upper tier team with a strong cast around him, but get paid less. This IMO, would allow Case to continue to extend his "ceiling" and probably result in a longer career, but he will never get the giant QB pay day. (Unless he wins a SB.)


All I know is if you are a Free Agent QB and want to get your career going, then you probably want to play for the Vikings. This offense is basically stacked, there are some holes on the OL, but that really is about it. In other words: You want to play here! If the Vikings are smart they will be picky about their OC and leverage the fact that they can offer something to most QBs that other clubs can't.

In terms of Sam/Teddy: It really depends on who has the healthier knee. If they are both healthy then IMO, (and the stats) Bradford >>>>>>>> Teddy.

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Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:03 am
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Post Re: Next years QB
I think that myself I would like to see Keenum back next year with Cook and an improved offensive line....
Keenum seems level headed, I think he could work with the Vikings to try and work out a deal as long as Rick doesn't try and lowball him.

If we decide to go with Teddy what plan would we need in place if his knee isn't up to the rigors of game play.
Who would be his backup??

Bottom line is I don't think you will see us comitt to a QB till March.


Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:30 am
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