Next years QB

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Mothman
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 am

808vikingsfan wrote:His 'aggressive style' was the turning point in the Championship game (IMO of course). That first INT he threw was late, into triple coverage, and off target.
Being hit as he threw it had a little something to do with that INT too (edit: oops—I see you already responded to a comment about that). We can't expect perfection at the position. An aggressive style can occasionally result in turnovers but it's also how big plays get made. It's not as if Keenum was a turnover machine last year. Better to have a QB who tries to make plays, attacks the end zone, etc, than a QB who's so willing to play it safe that the team misses scoring opportunities or settles for too many FGs. Overly safe football is ultimately losing football.
When I read what Cliff posted, I immediately thought Case did not fit. 3 most important attributes: Decision making, timing and accuracy. Case is a gunslinger. He will always have that mentality. Some people like that. I'm pretty sure Zimmer doesn't. That's why he'd rather go with someone else I believe.


You may be right. I think he's an inherently conservative head coach and I feel that's going to make it even more difficult for him to win a Super Bowl.
What the Vikings need is an accurate passer, doesn't take unnecessary risks, and can make plays when needed.
I think they need a QB who makes plays even when they aren't needed. I hate the "let's just try to keep it close and hope we can put together a winning drive at the end" mentality. The heck with that. Field an aggressive offense that puts up enough points to make that sort of late game drama unnecessary as often as possible!
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Re: Next years QB

Post by SkolScot » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:42 am

TSonn wrote:I'm more excited about bringing back Bradford or Keenum or even signing Cousins, but just went back and watched Teddy's 2016 preseason. He definitely looked like he was progressing more into a franchise QB. His deep ball was improved and he seemed more aggressive/trusted his receivers more. That could have been the fact that it was preseason, but if he picked up where he left off from the 2016 preseason along with him working on his football IQ and arm strength during his recovery, he could still be the future.




I don't think we can even look at 2014 and 2015 stats for Teddy to predict future Teddy because he looked like he was turning into a new QB in 2016, basically the entire offense is different now (besides Diggs who already had great chemistry with Teddy), and we have a brand new OC who has been great with young QBs.
The second throw to Diggs and the one to Rudolph were fantastic

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:57 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Dam dude, I have never seen so much hate for 1 player. I coundnt stand Ponder and hated McNabb. I posted a lot of negative stuff about McNabb and his bounce passes (and the fact Childress had nothing to do with his success) here, and got banned for it. But why do you have so much hate for Teddy? :deadhorse: He hasnt had any time yet to prove himself. Even the greats took more then a couple years to show. And all this hate was before Teddy screwed up his knee/leg. I dont think Teddy isnt the answer either, when Case and Cousins might be options, but I love the guy and think he can be a good QB. But the Vikings need a GOOD QB for a change. And they need to have someone other then Slotter as the 3rd string (and hope to god he isnt the backup, cause he has showed nothing since hes been here other then the Vikings have a hard time with the QB spot).
Nobody "hates" Teddy. But some fans, including me, are baffled by the willingness to re-sign him and make him our starter by other fans. Yes, he "hasnt had time to prove himself" so in turn, he hasnt done much in his career. But at the same time, the guy hasnt played in TWO YEARS and nearly lost his leg. How on earth are fans ok with that and think he should come in as our starter next year??

Nobody wants Sam Bradford back because he's injury prone but we're ok having Teddy back?? Sam Bradford is 30 times the QB Teddy is from a pure throwing standpoint. Sam has had 2 ACL surgeries. Teddy has had one very serious one. IMO, those injuries are a wash. So what in the world makes Teddy a better option than Bradford?? What makes him a better option than a guy that just led us to a 13-4 overall record in Case Keenum? Hell, what makes him a better option than Cousins and Foles?? To me, out of the 5 QBs we've all discussed (Case, Sam, Teddy, Cousins, Foles), I think Teddy is the LEAST appealing option.

Case proved himself this year, Cousins has always been proven given how bad his defenses have been and Foles showed a ton this year. And I hope nobody comes back with "Well Bradford has had time to prove himself". Really? When?? He's been on horrid teams his whole career. And the year he has a shot, he gets hurt. I truly feel bad for the guy because I think he's a really good QB with awful luck. Lets not forget, Bradford was healthy all of 2016 with the worst OL in Vikings history in front of him and ZERO running game.

My order is as follows:

1.) Cousins
2.) Case
T3.) Bradford or Foles
5.) Teddy
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Slick Rick
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Slick Rick » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:53 pm

Teddy's good for a 3/2 TD/INT ratio, and he has been that since day one pretty much. I'm not sure what to think about him making progress, but if he can still go - and it seems like the Vikings front office believes he does - then he's more than viable as a starting QB, and he has more advanced weaponry than he ever did before. My main concern is his knee, and if it's going to hold up or possibly hinder his performance. I have little reason to doubt the expertise of Spielman, Zimmer, DeFilippo and physicians who went to school and literally get paid to understand how our bodies work, so if they see some value in bringing him back I'm gonna go with it unless I see otherwise.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:17 pm

Slick Rick wrote: then he's more than viable as a starting QB,
He is?? How do you know this? We know what Case, Bradford, Cousins and Foles can do. We have no idea how Teddy will be. Can he sit in the pocket? Is he going to get happy feet like when he played Cincy this year? Can he take hits, etc. etc. I'm not sure how anyone can say he's a viable option when he legit hasnt played in two year. Literally nobody knows. So how do you rely on that if you're the Vikings?
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Re: Next years QB

Post by TSonn » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:33 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:But you're only looking at preseason. TJack had great preseason too. I just don't get it.
I agree it was only preseason. It also happened to be the last bit of extended action from him before the injury and also happened to be between his 2nd and 3rd year in the league where many QBs make a jump (or management realizes they need to move on).

Was he making a jump during that preseason?
Was it simply that it was preseason?
Is he even back that level of athleticism after the injury?
What did he improve during his rehab?

A lot of questions that really only Vikings leadership know the answer to - so if they choose to go with him for the future (which I still hope they do not), we can still be hopeful that 2018 Teddy is new and improved over 2015 Teddy.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by MrPurplenGold » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:02 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Slick Rick wrote: then he's more than viable as a starting QB,
He is?? How do you know this? We know what Case, Bradford, Cousins and Foles can do. We have no idea how Teddy will be. Can he sit in the pocket? Is he going to get happy feet like when he played Cincy this year? Can he take hits, etc. etc. I'm not sure how anyone can say he's a viable option when he legit hasnt played in two year. Literally nobody knows. So how do you rely on that if you're the Vikings?

I would be wary about assuming we know what Case can do. He's had one good year under a specific system and a couple bad years under other systems. There have been plenty one year wonder system QBs that haven't maintained sustained success. I would transition tag him over a long term contract. If he can do it again under a different system then he deserves a long term contract. If he doesn't, we don't have any significant long term ties to him.
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Cliff
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Cliff » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:04 am

John DeFilippo won't leave 'stone unturned' in QB hunt
Will the quarterback-needy team be backed into the franchise tag for Keenum? Is the intriguing-yet-brittle Bradford a realistic alternative? Will an independent arbitrator end up ruling that Bridgewater's rookie contract tolls into 2018 as a result of time spent on the physically unable to perform list last year?


Speaking at his introductory press conference last Friday, DeFilippo said he will have "as much say as" coach Mike Zimmer and general manager Rick Spielman want him to have in the upcoming quarterback decision.

"I am going to leave no stone unturned," DeFilippo added, via The Star Tribune. "It is going to be a collaborative effort -- something that we all agree on. I've been through this situation before searching for Derek Carr and Carson Wentz. I've had some experience in this situation in trying to find your quarterback to lead your football team."
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:53 am

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Slick Rick wrote: then he's more than viable as a starting QB,
He is?? How do you know this? We know what Case, Bradford, Cousins and Foles can do. We have no idea how Teddy will be. Can he sit in the pocket? Is he going to get happy feet like when he played Cincy this year? Can he take hits, etc. etc. I'm not sure how anyone can say he's a viable option when he legit hasnt played in two year. Literally nobody knows. So how do you rely on that if you're the Vikings?

I would be wary about assuming we know what Case can do. He's had one good year under a specific system and a couple bad years under other systems. There have been plenty one year wonder system QBs that haven't maintained sustained success. I would transition tag him over a long term contract. If he can do it again under a different system then he deserves a long term contract. If he doesn't, we don't have any significant long term ties to him.
True. Case isnt a given. It's just I have more confidence in him than I would Teddy and he is durable. I said before that he could easily be a product of the system but either way, he has chemistry with this team, is athletic, good leader, etc.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by suncoastvike » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:04 am

I'm hoping they stick with Case. Seems the safest bet. I don't care for unknowns. We roll the dice and take our shot at Cousins. Who I only view as a slight upgrade over Case. What if we miss and someone else signs him. I'm sure they will over pay. It only takes one. In the mean time Case finds out his value on the market. We lose him as well. As much as I would have loved Sam to be the answer. He is just to big of a gamble. In case you think I forgot about Teddy I didn't. Just as big a gamble as Sam but not as talented. His potential was never met. Or was it? Agree to a deal with Case before the market opens. I say roll with him, Sloter and a drafted QB. Only thing certain now is a few more months of uncertainty.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:48 am

suncoastvike wrote:I'm hoping they stick with Case. Seems the safest bet. I don't care for unknowns. We roll the dice and take our shot at Cousins. Who I only view as a slight upgrade over Case. What if we miss and someone else signs him. I'm sure they will over pay. It only takes one. In the mean time Case finds out his value on the market. We lose him as well. As much as I would have loved Sam to be the answer. He is just to big of a gamble. In case you think I forgot about Teddy I didn't. Just as big a gamble as Sam but not as talented. His potential was never met. Or was it? Agree to a deal with Case before the market opens. I say roll with him, Sloter and a drafted QB. Only thing certain now is a few more months of uncertainty.
I think Cousins is definitely better than Case. At least from a consistency standpoint. We're judging Case off of a good year in a system that was fit for him. Cousins has played in more than one system and has excelled every year since 2015. Over 4000 yards each year, no more than 13 INTs in a year, nearly 30 TDs per year, no lower than a 93.9 rating, averaging 7.9 YPA and a 67% completion percentage. All very very good. And lets be honest, does anyone honestly see his play dipping with DeFilippo as an OC, the WRs and TE we have as well as a stud RB?? I dont see it as a possibility to be honest
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Re: Next years QB

Post by MrPurplenGold » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:56 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
suncoastvike wrote:I'm hoping they stick with Case. Seems the safest bet. I don't care for unknowns. We roll the dice and take our shot at Cousins. Who I only view as a slight upgrade over Case. What if we miss and someone else signs him. I'm sure they will over pay. It only takes one. In the mean time Case finds out his value on the market. We lose him as well. As much as I would have loved Sam to be the answer. He is just to big of a gamble. In case you think I forgot about Teddy I didn't. Just as big a gamble as Sam but not as talented. His potential was never met. Or was it? Agree to a deal with Case before the market opens. I say roll with him, Sloter and a drafted QB. Only thing certain now is a few more months of uncertainty.
I think Cousins is definitely better than Case. At least from a consistency standpoint. We're judging Case off of a good year in a system that was fit for him. Cousins has played in more than one system and has excelled every year since 2015. Over 4000 yards each year, no more than 13 INTs in a year, nearly 30 TDs per year, no lower than a 93.9 rating, averaging 7.9 YPA and a 67% completion percentage. All very very good. And lets be honest, does anyone honestly see his play dipping with DeFilippo as an OC, the WRs and TE we have as well as a stud RB?? I dont see it as a possibility to be honest
The conundrum in general will become, how do you keep the team, as constructed, together with a big contract to a QB. Look what happened to Seattle when they had to pay Russel Wilson, Detroit is never more than mediocre, except for last year, the saints have been terrible as well. The Vikings will be looking at decisions on Diggs, Hunter, Barr, Wayne's, Kendricks, theilen has outperformed his contract, plus we need help on the interior of both lines. Berzinski has been great at his job, but he's never had to pay a QB in excess of 20 mil per year.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Rock45 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Again, I've said this time and time again: Everyone was ready to give up on Rudy a few years back saying he's injury prone, blah blah blah. And now look? He's been rock solid for quite some time. Fans want to give a guy that nearly lost his leg and hasnt played in two years another chance but say no to Bradford. Hmmmm. But Teddy is a feel good story and "nobody ever really like Sam Bradford". Well Sam Bradford is 20 times the QB Teddy is. I truly feel bad for Bradford because the guy has terrible luck. He was on such a bad team for so long, gets bit with the injury bug, makes it through all of 2016 behind the worst OL in Vikings history and the year everything seems to have gotten fixed, he goes down with a knee issue. He threw 20 TDs and 5 INTs in 2016. He was the LEAST of our problems. If healthy, I believe he couldve done what Case did this year and maybe even a little more.
I completely concur with all of this. Easily 20 times the QB Teddy is. Way better than Case. And the best free agent QB on the market not named Drew Brees. I think he should stay a Vike, but we'll see what happens.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by S197 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:45 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
suncoastvike wrote:I'm hoping they stick with Case. Seems the safest bet. I don't care for unknowns. We roll the dice and take our shot at Cousins. Who I only view as a slight upgrade over Case. What if we miss and someone else signs him. I'm sure they will over pay. It only takes one. In the mean time Case finds out his value on the market. We lose him as well. As much as I would have loved Sam to be the answer. He is just to big of a gamble. In case you think I forgot about Teddy I didn't. Just as big a gamble as Sam but not as talented. His potential was never met. Or was it? Agree to a deal with Case before the market opens. I say roll with him, Sloter and a drafted QB. Only thing certain now is a few more months of uncertainty.
I think Cousins is definitely better than Case. At least from a consistency standpoint. We're judging Case off of a good year in a system that was fit for him. Cousins has played in more than one system and has excelled every year since 2015. Over 4000 yards each year, no more than 13 INTs in a year, nearly 30 TDs per year, no lower than a 93.9 rating, averaging 7.9 YPA and a 67% completion percentage. All very very good. And lets be honest, does anyone honestly see his play dipping with DeFilippo as an OC, the WRs and TE we have as well as a stud RB?? I dont see it as a possibility to be honest
The conundrum in general will become, how do you keep the team, as constructed, together with a big contract to a QB. Look what happened to Seattle when they had to pay Russel Wilson, Detroit is never more than mediocre, except for last year, the saints have been terrible as well. The Vikings will be looking at decisions on Diggs, Hunter, Barr, Wayne's, Kendricks, theilen has outperformed his contract, plus we need help on the interior of both lines. Berzinski has been great at his job, but he's never had to pay a QB in excess of 20 mil per year.
This lays out how it could be done. Of course it's dependent upon how close his estimates are to the actual fair market value of these player's contracts, but it appears the Vikings have the room to potentially get it done.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/2/8/ ... qb-edition
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Re: Next years QB

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:15 pm

Mothman wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:His 'aggressive style' was the turning point in the Championship game (IMO of course). That first INT he threw was late, into triple coverage, and off target.
Being hit as he threw it had a little something to do with that INT too (edit: oops—I see you already responded to a comment about that). We can't expect perfection at the position. An aggressive style can occasionally result in turnovers but it's also how big plays get made. It's not as if Keenum was a turnover machine last year. Better to have a QB who tries to make plays, attacks the end zone, etc, than a QB who's so willing to play it safe that the team misses scoring opportunities or settles for too many FGs. Overly safe football is ultimately losing football.
When I read what Cliff posted, I immediately thought Case did not fit. 3 most important attributes: Decision making, timing and accuracy. Case is a gunslinger. He will always have that mentality. Some people like that. I'm pretty sure Zimmer doesn't. That's why he'd rather go with someone else I believe.


You may be right. I think he's an inherently conservative head coach and I feel that's going to make it even more difficult for him to win a Super Bowl.
What the Vikings need is an accurate passer, doesn't take unnecessary risks, and can make plays when needed.
I think they need a QB who makes plays even when they aren't needed. I hate the "let's just try to keep it close and hope we can put together a winning drive at the end" mentality. The heck with that. Field an aggressive offense that puts up enough points to make that sort of late game drama unnecessary as often as possible!


You can have an aggressive offense without an aggressive QB. Just need a good play caller. Foles and the Eagles come to mind. I don't consider Foles as a risky or aggressive QB. More of a game manager type QB. Good decision maker and accurate. What made the Eagles an aggressive offense was the play calling. Shurmur was great this year. Don't know how many times I thought to myself "great playcall" when scoring in the redzone. Hopefully, Defilippo can continue this.

If the Vikings do keep Case, he needs to fix his accuracy issues. I think Thielen and Diggs were top 10 in contested catches. IMO, misplaced throws were the reason for a lot of these contested catches. An unlucky bounce or a better play by the defender and I can see Case easily doubling his INT count. Also, there were way too many missed opportunities left on the field this year because of these inaccurate passes.
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