Next years QB

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Bigwehrm
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Bigwehrm »

Guys answer me this. If we signed Cousins would he or would he not be one of the top 5 Vikings QBs of all time before he even plays a game?? I say yes so when the chance comes to get a guy like that you do it. Especially when you are a franchise like the Vikes that cant seem to find one no matter how hard they try. You take that chance.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Slick Rick wrote: I read all of it, but it just came off like you were attempting to discredit Bridgewater as a viable option based off of one performance. I can see how you'd wonder about Bridgewater's condition having an impact on the way that he's going to be able to perform, especially with a significant knee injury, but Bridgewater has always had game and I doubt that's gone. As far as happy feet goes, every QB has happy feet when their offensive line isn't playing very well, and Teddy was behind some pretty damn awful offensive lines in case you've forgotten. I didn't really respond to that because that's usually the go-to argument for my dad when he's drunk and wants to sound like he knows what he's talking about, but doesn't know how to deliver an articulate criticism. :lol:
Bridgewater's "game" so far has been average at best. I think that is pretty obvious. So I'm not sure what there is to argue there. He's thrown 28 TDs to 21 INTs in his first two years. It's not like he was some elite QB before this injury. He's as big of a gamble as they come right now. And don't bother using Peyton Manning and Brett Favre. Saying "well they werent that great their first couple years and then they became great". Its nothing but speculation. You're saying Teddy's got "game". I don't know what that means because IMO, 28 TDs and 21 INTs is average as it gets. I mean to throw 14 TDs in your second year as a starter in the same offense with an elite RB behind you isn't good. He was averaging 200 yards a game in his SECOND YEAR. 24 yards less than his first year. I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from. Blame the OL, blame whoever but bottom line is, thats not good.
As for the Bradford thing, I think it's hilarious how you say that Bradford literally couldn't walk when he was clearly able to walk onto the field and play, and also could run for some reason despite the fact that he literally was unable to walk - lol. Also, as overstated as your point may be, it just makes it worse that there might some slight truth to it because it brings us back to questions about the condition of HIS knee, which has repeatedly flared up, been torn, etc. over the years dating back to college.
He could run?? He never ran once that game. He could barely move. It was obvious to anyone watching that game. Vikings fan or not.

On Cousins - for starters, his offensive line was never bad and have typically been one of the top units in the league while he's been there and all of the stats support this. If you feel so inclined, google PFF's rankings for the top offensive line units in 2017 and 2016, the Redskins are ranked pretty high. As for the receiving corps, he had Vernon Davis, Reed, and Pryor was coming off a 1,000 yard season in Cleveland and Cousins wasn't able to do much with him. Your argument seems to want to make all of the excuses for him, but doesn't want to criticize much of what he wasn't able to do. I think Cousins is good, but certainly not worth 30M+ per year, and I'm hoping that the Vikings go in a different direction.
Dude again, where are you getting your stats from?? The stats support it?? Ok. Well Kirk Cousins was sacked 41 times this year. 41!!!! That is more than Sam Bradford did in 2016 behind one of the worst OL us Vikings fans have ever seen. And Cousins is a lot more mobile than Bradford is. You say Teddy's OL was SO bad and he was sacked 44 times. But Cousins was sacked 41 times this year and his line was good? :lol:

And you missed what I said regarding his pass catchers. Jordan Reed only played in 6 games this year and was hurt most of the year. Vernon Davis is decent but nothing special. And Pryor flopped. I don't blame that on Cousins. Cousins has proved himself. Pryor had one good year and is a converted QB. His only legit threat was Reed and he barely played. You are talking up the 3 of these guys like their studs. 1 of the 3 are and he barely played this year.
I never said we should make Teddy the starter, but I think if his knee is okay and the rest of his tool set isn't impacted by the injury, Teddy has the game to be a viable starter and his previous stats definitely do back that up. Whether he's capable of playing up to his former ability or not definitely does remain to be seen. We'll have to wait to find out no matter what.
He "has the game"? Again, how and where do you see that?? What stats "definitely back that up"? If you want to use stats, you're beat.

Cousins TD:INT ratio is nearly 2.5 to 1. Teddy's is nearly 1 to 1.
Cousins has broke 4,000 yards the last 3 years and one year was 83 yards shy of breaking 5,000. Teddy hasnt broke 3,300.
Cousins completion percentage averages a little over 67%. Teddy is about 64.8%.
Cousins yards per completion is 7.8. Teddys is 7.25.
Cousins averages 59 20+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages about 40.
Cousins averages 10 40+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages 6.5
Cousins has had very weak defenses. Teddy's were in the top half of the league every year.
Cousins has had very weak RBs. Teddy had one of the best ever in 2015 and he still had many underwhelming performances that year.

Cousins crushes him in every statistical category pretty much. Teddy's stats work against you in an argument like this. They are average to even below average. Kirk Cousins has been very consistent over the last 3 years. He also has never had a major injury. The two aren't even close to being comparable.
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Re: Next years QB

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Cousins TD:INT ratio is nearly 2.5 to 1. Teddy's is nearly 1 to 1.
Cousins has broke 4,000 yards the last 3 years and one year was 83 yards shy of breaking 5,000. Teddy hasnt broke 3,300.
Cousins completion percentage averages a little over 67%. Teddy is about 64.8%.
Cousins yards per completion is 7.8. Teddys is 7.25.
Cousins averages 59 20+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages about 40.
Cousins averages 10 40+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages 6.5
Cousins has had very weak defenses. Teddy's were in the top half of the league every year.
Cousins has had very weak RBs. Teddy had one of the best ever in 2015 and he still had many underwhelming performances that year.

Cousins crushes him in every statistical category pretty much. Teddy's stats work against you in an argument like this. They are average to even below average. Kirk Cousins has been very consistent over the last 3 years. He also has never had a major injury. The two aren't even close to being comparable.
Nice numbers. Let's not forget that Cousin's has twice as many games played as Teddy. And has been playing in the same system as the starter for the last three years. So let's compare their first 29 games. Something more akin to reality.

Code: Select all

             Cousins               Teddy 
Pass attempts.     1003             850
Completions.        685  65.6%      551   64.7%
TDs.   46   4.5% of pass attempts.   29   3.3% of pass attempts
Ints.  29   2.9% of pass attempts    22   2.6% of pass attempts.
Rushing yards       131             398
 
So yes, while Cousins number are currently better than Bridgewater's, after 29 games only his TD percentage was greater. And I am sure that the extra 30 games helped in overall numbers. There is not a lot of difference after 29 games. It will be interesting to see what Teddy's' numbers are after 30 more games. IF he ever gets that chance. One thing Cousins doesn't bring to the table is he is not a threat to run. Not sure Teddy would be after the knee either.

Let's add one more thing to think about OC. Sean McVay vs Norv Turner.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Raptorman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Cousins TD:INT ratio is nearly 2.5 to 1. Teddy's is nearly 1 to 1.
Cousins has broke 4,000 yards the last 3 years and one year was 83 yards shy of breaking 5,000. Teddy hasnt broke 3,300.
Cousins completion percentage averages a little over 67%. Teddy is about 64.8%.
Cousins yards per completion is 7.8. Teddys is 7.25.
Cousins averages 59 20+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages about 40.
Cousins averages 10 40+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages 6.5
Cousins has had very weak defenses. Teddy's were in the top half of the league every year.
Cousins has had very weak RBs. Teddy had one of the best ever in 2015 and he still had many underwhelming performances that year.

Cousins crushes him in every statistical category pretty much. Teddy's stats work against you in an argument like this. They are average to even below average. Kirk Cousins has been very consistent over the last 3 years. He also has never had a major injury. The two aren't even close to being comparable.
Nice numbers. Let's not forget that Cousin's has twice as many games played as Teddy. And has been playing in the same system as the starter for the last three years. So let's compare their first 29 games. Something more akin to reality.

Code: Select all

             Cousins               Teddy 
Pass attempts.     1003             850
Completions.        685  65.6%      551   64.7%
TDs.   46   4.5% of pass attempts.   29   3.3% of pass attempts
Ints.  29   2.9% of pass attempts    22   2.6% of pass attempts.
Rushing yards       131             398
 
So yes, while Cousins number are currently better than Bridgewater's, after 29 games only his TD percentage was greater. And I am sure that the extra 30 games helped in overall numbers. There is not a lot of difference after 29 games. It will be interesting to see what Teddy's' numbers are after 30 more games. IF he ever gets that chance. One thing Cousins doesn't bring to the table is he is not a threat to run. Not sure Teddy would be after the knee either.

Let's add one more thing to think about OC. Sean McVay vs Norv Turner.

All these stats I used were based off Cousins last 3 years. He has not been in the same system the last 3 years. He had 2015 and 2016 under McVay but not this year. Teddy was in the same system both years. When you look at a QB that had a devastating knee injury, hasnt played in two years and wasnt anything more than average his first two seasons compared to a guy that has been very consistent the last 3 years, healthy and one of the better passers in the NFL, it's not even comparable
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Re: Next years QB

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Point being Cousins wasn't anything special his first 29 games. But sure let's compare his last 30 games to Teddy's 29. After all, I'm sure if Teddy had been able to play the last two years his stats wouldn't have improved any. After all, he was just average after 29 games.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Raptorman wrote:Point being Cousins wasn't anything special his first 29 games. But sure let's compare his last 30 games to Teddy's 29. After all, I'm sure if Teddy had been able to play the last two years his stats wouldn't have improved any. After all, he was just average after 29 games.
I get what you’re saying but bottom line is, Teddy has shown us nothing in the sense of if he can be a legit QB or not. And hasn’t played in two years. Nearly lost his leg. You have a giant question mark of a QB in Teddy and a legit QB in Cousins. It’s a no brainer.

And why compare their first 29 games?? Cousins was playing in spot duty and backup duty due to RGIII. Teddy started 3 weeks into his rookie year. So those stats are just as flawed. You’re comparing a starter to a guy that played on and off :confused: I don’t see how that makes any more sense.

Either way, I don’t want Teddy as our starter. Period. There is no reason he should be. He’s proven nothing and hasn’t played in two years. No less he wasn’t all that impressive his first two years anyways. But hey since he’s a good guy we should give him another shot. If we should do that why not resign Bradford instead. How is that any different. And Bradford is 5 times the pure passer
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Re: Next years QB

Post by 808vikingsfan »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I get what you’re saying but bottom line is, Teddy has shown us nothing in the sense of if he can be a legit QB or not.
Your opinion.
And hasn’t played in two years.
and so has a bunch of 2nd stringers that are waiting to get on the field. Sitting doesn't mean much IMO. Most still prepare as if they were starting. But sitting and not practicing, yes. Bridgewater has been practicing since October, and was looking good in practice from what I've read.
Nearly lost his leg.
I agree. To me, that's the biggest question but it may or may matter. They won't let him play if they're not confident he's 100% healed and ready to go. If there's a question about his health, move on.
You have a giant question mark of a QB in Teddy and a legit QB in Cousins. It’s a no brainer
It's not a no brainer because you have to take into account cost, compatibility, and if the Vikings staff really believe in Cousins.



Also, the stats you provided earlier makes sense with Peterson as RB. Naturally, a run heavy offense will deflate a QBs stats. If you're saying WAS defense was bad, a QB that has to come from behind will have inflated stats. And you forgot to include the most important stat, W/L. If you think the 49ers were that bad but Garoppolo made them legit, how can you defend Cousin's terrible winning percentage?

For you it's a no brainer. For other fans it's most likely a no brainer. But for Zimmer and Co., I don't think it is.

I, for one, would like to see Bridgewater in a balanced and unpredictable (or less predictable) offense with protection.



Analysis from the other side of the argument.

If we compare Bridgewater’s late-game performances over his first two years (’14-’15) to all quarterbacks with more than 50 throws in the fourth quarter down by one score over the last two years (’16-’17), we find that he was among the best of the best in the NFL, only trailing Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck (2016 only), Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady in quarterback rating.
Doug Farrar
Primary issue I see with Cousins in his 2017 tape is his processing speed and ability to adjust. It's not that he's hopeless in this regard, but he doesn't seem to have that in-play adjustment level to veer off his original palette of reads and make the better call on the fly.
https://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018 ... ifference/



And let's not forget how the offense really looked when Peterson was in.
When Peterson missed most of the 2014 season suspended, the Vikings turned to more single-back sets with three wide receivers on the field to help out rookie QB Teddy Bridgewater.Minnesota went back to the two-back, two-receiver sets when Peterson returned in 2015. That included fewer snaps from the gun.In 2015, Peterson carried the ball 32 times out shotgun formations. That was a career high. The Vikings attempted 387 runs out of the gun in 2014, per ESPN.com.
While most of Bridgewater’s 2015 attempts came in obvious passing situations — when defenses can bring in sub packages and employ their more complicated coverages and blitzes — Sam Bradford has thrown more passes on early downs against base defenses that don’t know whether to gear up against the pass or defend the run.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/nfl-min ... n-peterson
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Re: Next years QB

Post by Tbolt »

It is so strange...my two favorite teams (Broncos/Vikings) could both be put over the top as SB contenders by signing Cousins. though I think the Vikes could use him more, since Denver is sitting on a #5 draft pick and could get a guy that way.

FWIW, I liked Teddy in college. Buuuut, I wouldn't gamble this team, in a wide open NFC on him as a starter. Bradford needs to just hang it up. He is physically shot. I mean, they could let Keenum and Bridgewater battle it out I guess, but that seems like a great way to set a team back. Going to be a very interesting FA period.
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Re: Next years QB

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808vikingsfan wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:I get what you’re saying but bottom line is, Teddy has shown us nothing in the sense of if he can be a legit QB or not.
Your opinion.
And hasn’t played in two years.
and so has a bunch of 2nd stringers that are waiting to get on the field. Sitting doesn't mean much IMO. Most still prepare as if they were starting. But sitting and not practicing, yes. Bridgewater has been practicing since October, and was looking good in practice from what I've read.
Nearly lost his leg.
I agree. To me, that's the biggest question but it may or may matter. They won't let him play if they're not confident he's 100% healed and ready to go. If there's a question about his health, move on.
You have a giant question mark of a QB in Teddy and a legit QB in Cousins. It’s a no brainer
It's not a no brainer because you have to take into account cost, compatibility, and if the Vikings staff really believe in Cousins.



Also, the stats you provided earlier makes sense with Peterson as RB. Naturally, a run heavy offense will deflate a QBs stats. If you're saying WAS defense was bad, a QB that has to come from behind will have inflated stats. And you forgot to include the most important stat, W/L. If you think the 49ers were that bad but Garoppolo made them legit, how can you defend Cousin's terrible winning percentage?

For you it's a no brainer. For other fans it's most likely a no brainer. But for Zimmer and Co., I don't think it is.

I, for one, would like to see Bridgewater in a balanced and unpredictable (or less predictable) offense with protection.



Analysis from the other side of the argument.

If we compare Bridgewater’s late-game performances over his first two years (’14-’15) to all quarterbacks with more than 50 throws in the fourth quarter down by one score over the last two years (’16-’17), we find that he was among the best of the best in the NFL, only trailing Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck (2016 only), Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady in quarterback rating.
Doug Farrar
Primary issue I see with Cousins in his 2017 tape is his processing speed and ability to adjust. It's not that he's hopeless in this regard, but he doesn't seem to have that in-play adjustment level to veer off his original palette of reads and make the better call on the fly.
https://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018 ... ifference/



And let's not forget how the offense really looked when Peterson was in.
When Peterson missed most of the 2014 season suspended, the Vikings turned to more single-back sets with three wide receivers on the field to help out rookie QB Teddy Bridgewater.Minnesota went back to the two-back, two-receiver sets when Peterson returned in 2015. That included fewer snaps from the gun.In 2015, Peterson carried the ball 32 times out shotgun formations. That was a career high. The Vikings attempted 387 runs out of the gun in 2014, per ESPN.com.
While most of Bridgewater’s 2015 attempts came in obvious passing situations — when defenses can bring in sub packages and employ their more complicated coverages and blitzes — Sam Bradford has thrown more passes on early downs against base defenses that don’t know whether to gear up against the pass or defend the run.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/nfl-min ... n-peterson
My opinion? Ok. Well please enlighten me how Bridgewater has PROVED he can be a LEGIT QB?

Teddy should be a last resort option IMO right now. I’d take Cousins, Case and Sam all over him. I’d even consider taking McCarron. A few fans on here have gone to bat for Teddy but I’ve yet to see one fan give me a valid reason on how anyone could think he could be a legit QB for us. Especially after a bad injury. And until someone brings that to the table, my opinion regarding him being our 2018 starter will not change. It’s a gigantic risk and a stupid one with as good as this team is. We have so many other options that are much better QBs

Again it just baffles me with how critical some fans on this board are of Waynes, Barr, Murray, etc but back up a guy that’s done next to nothing in this league and hasn’t played in two years. It truly makes zero sense how anyone could have any kind of confidence in him right now. No less he wasn’t even good before he was injured. He was average. I wanna win a Super Bowl. Not watch Teddy throw for 150 yards 0 tds and 1 INT. No less it’s going to put more pressure on Cook and this defense. Keep him and case? Sure. But not just him to be a starter
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Re: Next years QB

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I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
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Re: Next years QB

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mosscarter wrote:I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
Like I said if we keep him and keep Case. I’m all for it. Because we can see what Teddy has in the preseason and maybe compete with case but to just go all in with Teddy and maybe a rookie is asinine IMO. Way too risky. We have a SB roster. Were THIS close. It’s cousins or Case. Gotta be
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Re: Next years QB

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
mosscarter wrote:I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
Like I said if we keep him and keep Case. I’m all for it. Because we can see what Teddy has in the preseason and maybe compete with case but to just go all in with Teddy and maybe a rookie is asinine IMO. Way too risky. We have a SB roster. Were THIS close. It’s cousins or Case. Gotta be
Has MossCarter made a comment in the past years, that didnt involve bashing Teddy, who didnt even have 3 years to try and prove himself, and with 2 sh!t Oline while he was QB? I wish I could ignore anything he said in comments too, he drives me crazy with his changing of mind on every QB every other day.

Do people really think Rick would have Teddy starting without looking at things none of you even know about? Consulting doctors, the rest of the coaches? Rick wants to win now as much as anyone, its kind of now or never for him I think.

I dont think we will get Cousins. Hes going to want more then we have, and more then what we will be able to afford the next few years. Unless the Jets and Broncos think they can rebuild with a rookie QB. But Cousins is a pipe dream right now. Bradford isnt going to pull the same sh!t on us again. Its going to be, more then likely Case for a large sum of money, or for Teddy, at about half of what Case would get. And even I who loves Teddy, in all honesty, and think he can be a good QB if he has some Oline protection, am not sure teddy has what it will take to not only bring us to the SB in the next few years but WIN it! If it is Teddy thats chosen to be the QB, there will be so much hate on this board, I hope the Mods nip it in the bud.
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Re: Next years QB

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PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
mosscarter wrote:I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
Like I said if we keep him and keep Case. I’m all for it. Because we can see what Teddy has in the preseason and maybe compete with case but to just go all in with Teddy and maybe a rookie is asinine IMO. Way too risky. We have a SB roster. Were THIS close. It’s cousins or Case. Gotta be
Has MossCarter made a comment in the past years, that didnt involve bashing Teddy, who didnt even have 3 years to try and prove himself, and with 2 sh!t Oline while he was QB? I wish I could ignore anything he said in comments too, he drives me crazy with his changing of mind on every QB every other day.

Do people really think Rick would have Teddy starting without looking at things none of you even know about? Consulting doctors, the rest of the coaches? Rick wants to win now as much as anyone, its kind of now or never for him I think.

I dont think we will get Cousins. Hes going to want more then we have, and more then what we will be able to afford the next few years. Unless the Jets and Broncos think they can rebuild with a rookie QB. But Cousins is a pipe dream right now. Bradford isnt going to pull the same sh!t on us again. Its going to be, more then likely Case for a large sum of money, or for Teddy, at about half of what Case would get. And even I who loves Teddy, in all honesty, and think he can be a good QB if he has some Oline protection, am not sure teddy has what it will take to not only bring us to the SB in the next few years but WIN it! If it is Teddy thats chosen to be the QB, there will be so much hate on this board, I hope the Mods nip it in the bud.
First of all, when did you become a Rick supporter?

Second, weren’t you the one saying how terrible Waynes was and how he was a bust and I continued to say he needs time just like any other rookie especially in this defense? You just said “well Teddy wasn’t given 3 years” but Waynes is a bust after 1 or 2? Come on man. Why does Teddy deserve 3 years but guys like Waynes and Treadwell don’t? You’re talking yourself in circles dude.

Also, AGAIN, Cousins wants to win. I don’t care what the jets offer him. He even said it’s not all about the money. As for Denver, we have about $25 mill more than them and in 2019 they will have the 3rd lowest cap space in the nfl. I don’t understand how they could even make it work. Cousins isn’t a pipe dream at all. It’s very very possible and I think Spielman is going to test the waters and see what he would take from us money wise
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Re: Next years QB

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Not sure how to post multiple posts PHP, but I started believing in Rick when he picked Elfein. He was the one lineman I wanted so bad, simply a beast, and I couldnt believe Rick picked an Oline guy that early. Also my #1 player I wanted was Cook. I was so afraid we would take that pos Mixon, who I make a point never to even read his stats.

Right now rick has put a team together with some depth. Hes also made mistakes, but some of the ones hes made were understandable. I would love it if we could somehow get a 4th for Treadwell. Make Rick can make something happen. I really believe Rick will draft a very good lineman, a good DT, and a decent QB. And then maybe another project Oline guy. Should be extremely interesting. I just hope we dont trade any players or future draft picks. its take a long time to get to this point. We also need to find out why Zimmers D (and Offense I guess) lays such a big fat effing egg sometimes. Games everyone knew were over by the time the second half started.
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Re: Next years QB

Post by mosscarter »

Purplekoolaid your name pretty much precedes your posts. I've never liked Teddy since when have I changed positions on that ever?
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