How much is Case Keenum worth?

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Maelstrom88
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by Maelstrom88 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:25 pm

Not as much as Cousins imo. I love Case but I'm not willing go nuts yet.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:26 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:How can you say Case isn't accurate?
He doesn't put the ball in great position and he lofts the ball out to give his guy a chance. That's not all bad but it minimizes the opportunities after the catch and on deep throws. He is very accurate over the middle, I'll give him that, but outside and deep he is not an accurate passer.
The bottom line isn't about arm strength or star power or anything else. The bottom line is winning. The guy is 12-3 as a starter with the Minnesota Vikings. He's beaten some of the best teams in the league, both at home and on the road. Offering the guy $30 million for 5 years would be an insult, and it would guarantee that he leaves Minnesota. Because he's going to get a lot more from someone else.
As I said, you can win with him. He's not going to win many games for you, but he can play at a really respectable level.
don't ignore that I'm proposing incentives if he starts. The 30/5 is a guaranteed base. Is Case willing to bet on himself?
I'm not sure he is going to get a lot more than 30 million from anyone anyway. I doubt anyone will commit to him for more than 2 years.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Spiny Norman wrote: Exactly right. I'd spend picks 1 & 2 on OL, 3rd rounder on a fast lanky DE, 4th for a TE and #5-6 to find a replacement for (venerable) Terrence Newman. Several years ago realized that drafting a QB in early rounds is foolish. The Broncos a dozen years ago laid out the modern formula for winning a SB: start with OL. That made any RB they plugged in there look like a star, and they traded them all (Terrell, Love, CJ Anderson) for other important chess pieces. Trade a knight for a rook any day. And when they finally got a king, plugged Peyton in there and it's a ring.

We have a similar opportunity, but with QBs instead of RBs. Bradford could start out of the box for 8 teams, Bridgewater could be traded for a plethora (do joo e'en know what a plethora ees? :lol:) of picks and mid-career players. But the wise thing would be to keep Teddy until his contract (when does his deal run through?).

Keenum 6 years out of college is just right for a QB to hit their stride, if we trust Spielman to keep capturing quality pieces in free-agency then it'd be smart to sign him solid. I don't think we can be tossing around numbers, like 18 or 22.5, until the playoffs are done. Maybe this thread has a troll, and it's Case's agent?

And Watertown eh? Watching the weather, they all use purple as the color for snowfall predictions, from lilac to lavender to indigo, and a couple weeks ago Watertown had the most gorgeous splat of deep purple right on top of it, with the number "40+" right in the middle. Apparently you live in the Vikingest corner of NY. :wink:
Haha yes I am. We set records for snow up this way. It gets crazy.

Dont forget I think our absolute #1 priority in the draft or FA next year is a 3 technique DT. Tom Johnson will be 34 and Stephen has gotten better but will be a FA next year. Losing Floyd hurt. He was a beast when he played. He dominated the 2015 playoff game against Seattle. However, there is some solid DT talent in this years draft. A few guys I'm pretty high on.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by Spiny Norman » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:27 pm

fiestavike wrote: Then there is a broader group who could become the next generation of elite QBs, Wilson, Stafford, Garopollo, Watson, Cousins, Carr, Newton, Ryan, Winston, etc. Case Keenum will undoubtedly be revealed over time to be better than a good swath of this list. Its a list based in large part on potential. What I don't like about commiting to Case is that he just doesn't have a very high ceiling ... He is an eternally flawed QB who does some things really well. Is that ever worth a longterm commitment. I think the Jeff Garcia comp is pretty decent. Case Keenum is only a franchise guy if he will accept a franchise friendly deal.
Yes, i'd like to date him for another year before buying the diamond too. But he's got sand in the guts and the kids love him. There's no way anyone can toss numbers around now, it's just too early. See how the next game or two goes.

I disagree about your ceiling measurement. With Rams and in TX, he never had this kind of balanced team around him. So far, he responded well in a post-season environment, not something the Rams were able to gauge before cutting him. Next month, we'll know if he truly has the "intangibles" which make a ceiling much higher than the current estimation.

There is no person on this planet who can answer this thread's Q today, not even Zim Tzu. We have to wait a week or three.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:28 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Agreed. We need to pay the guy. Period. BUT draft a QB so we have insurance.
Percy, are you wanting to sign him to a multi-year deal or franchise him?
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:34 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Percy, are you wanting to sign him to a multi-year deal or franchise him?
Multi year. Somewhere in the 15-20 mill range. Hard to say until we see how the rest of the playoffs go
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by cmoss84 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:34 pm

I would offer up either a 3 year/50 deal or a 5 year/70...both seem to be fair on both sides. I think he's earned it. I'm not ready to give him 20+ a year yet. Agree that Cousins will demand lots of dollars...too many of them.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Multi year. Somewhere in the 15-20 mill range. Hard to say until we see how the rest of the playoffs go
What do you think it would cost to sign Bradford or Bridgewater to a deal of comparable length?
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by w_huisman » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:15 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:Yes, i'd like to date him for another year before buying the diamond too. But he's got sand in the guts and the kids love him. There's no way anyone can toss numbers around now, it's just too early. See how the next game or two goes.

I disagree about your ceiling measurement. With Rams and in TX, he never had this kind of balanced team around him. So far, he responded well in a post-season environment, not something the Rams were able to gauge before cutting him. Next month, we'll know if he truly has the "intangibles" which make a ceiling much higher than the current estimation.

There is no person on this planet who can answer this thread's Q today, not even Zim Tzu. We have to wait a week or three.
I like your analogy. I'm not ready to marry the guy either, but I am willing to pay him north of $20mil next year to see if he's really arrived or if he comes back to earth after Shurmur is gone. Franchise him, IMO.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by Maelstrom88 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:48 pm

w_huisman wrote: I like your analogy. I'm not ready to marry the guy either, but I am willing to pay him north of $20mil next year to see if he's really arrived or if he comes back to earth after Shurmur is gone. Franchise him, IMO.
A franchise tag for Case and using a pick on a Qb in tge first 3 rounds would be ideal imo.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by Rhodes Closed » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:37 pm

I don't understand why we have to draft a QB when Bridgewater will likely get low-end deals and we still have Kyle Sloter as a "diamond in the rough" so to speak.

Case Keenum enjoys Minnesota, he loves the environment, the team, and he loves Mike Zimmer's honesty. To say he won't accept a 5-year $40 Million deal when that's most likely the most money he's ever seen and it's coming from a team with a fanbase that just proclaimed him and Diggs to be part of Vikings Immortality, is a tad ridiculous, don't you think?
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by petev_sj » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:13 pm

I believe Case will accept any offer the Vikings give him, I absolutely think he knows this will be the best team he will ever get to be a part of.

As far as worth. Sam Bradford is making $18 million this year. Just goes to show the ridiculous price NFL teams are willing to pay for just competent QB play.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by S197 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:34 pm

If we're talking franchise tag money, I'd get on the phone with KC and see what their plans are for Alex Smith. They gave away the farm for Mahomes so Smith may not be in their future. I think like Keenum, Smith's struggles are a product of Andy Reid. In terms of skillset, I'd say Keenum and Smith are fairly close with Smith having a much better deep ball. KC lead the league in big plays.

I think Case may stick around, he seems to love this team but $22M-$23M is a lot.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by w_huisman » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:30 am

S197 wrote:If we're talking franchise tag money, I'd get on the phone with KC and see what their plans are for Alex Smith. They gave away the farm for Mahomes so Smith may not be in their future. I think like Keenum, Smith's struggles are a product of Andy Reid. In terms of skillset, I'd say Keenum and Smith are fairly close with Smith having a much better deep ball. KC lead the league in big plays.

I think Case may stick around, he seems to love this team but $22M-$23M is a lot.
It's only $5 million more than they paid Bradford this year.
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Re: How much is Case Keenum worth?

Post by John_Viveiros » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:18 am

We have four QB's on the roster now. Here's my take on them all, because I think we have to consider the probability that we'll need to rely on guy #2 for an extended time during the season (see 2014, 2016, 2017).

Sloter - He's the only one tied down to a contract. So we've got him. He's our developmental guy. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs into the "Sloter as #2" basket, but the cap considerations may get us there. He's really a complete unknown, without much QB experience, and I wouldn't want him on the field maybe until the middle of year three.

Teddy - Full disclosure - I'm a Teddy fan. I like the way he would manage the games, gets first downs late in games to preserve leads, etc. But that was in the past. We have no idea what he'll be like in the future. Neither do any other teams. That may help us to retain him, because we have a better idea of his risk-weighted value, which I'd love to do. I'd like Teddy on the team with a team-friendly, highly incentivized contract that pays him $6-8 million per year or so, with more in incentives if he starts more. Pay him for a couple years as a high priced backup. Lord knows that QB's get injured. My caveats - he looked really unsteady in the few snaps he took, and the fact that Zimmer, who loves Teddy, moved him back to third string when Bradford and his glass knees came off IR, which can't be a good sign. So maybe that salary is good - he continues his rehab with us, and fights for the starting position in training camp. Any team paying starting QB money for Bridgewater is taking a gargantuan risk, so I think we have a shot.

Bradford - He's got some nice stats, and the pedigree of being a #1 overall pick, but he let us down this year. You can't pay a guy $20 million a year to play half the games across two seasons, which I think is about what he does historically. And I think he's a bit like Matt Stafford, in that he passes the stats and eyeball tests for what a QB should look like, but neither of their teams end up being better than average (7, 8, or 9 wins each year). Russell Wilson, and a better FG kicker, would have gotten the Seahawks twelve wins with an offensive line that was worse than ours was last year, so I don't give him a pass on 2016. I don't dislike Sam, but I also can't count on him at all to be there, or to win a game that we have no business winning, so I just would let him go and hope somebody picks him over Teddy and Case, the QB's I want to keep. If Sam loved it here, and wanted to stay, and one of the other guys left, I'd offer him backup money, and incentivize his contract, and let there be another QB competition in training camp.

Case - I was one of the guys who couldn't watch the end of the game. At two minutes, with the ball, Case was either going to get us the win and be worth signing to a pretty nice contract, or wasn't going to get it done, in which circumstance then I'd be over him, because two minutes and thirty yards with that receiving corps, when you are in continual four down territory is a pretty defining moment. And I know you're all going to object, but I'm going to say that he misused the time. You can't leave 90 seconds for Brees, in a four down situation when they were down to one timeout. Once the ball got into long FG range, Case needed to keep the clock moving. He needed to throw in bounds. He needed to check down to running plays. That kick has to go through with under 30 seconds to go. ...As the Saints found out, because even if Diggs doesn't score, he just needed to get out of bounds, because the Vikes were in FG range then. But when the game was on the line, Case was spot on. Fabulous throws in the TWO drives he led to get us the leads. So in the sense that I still see some flaws in his game, and can imagine a "Randall Cunningham" scenario where we get rid of the very good QB and future Superbowl winner on our roster while retaining Keenum who almost immediately reverts to his prior performance level, I'd like it if we don't mortgage the farm to keep Case around. I think he's earned something in the $18 million per year range, but I'd really like to sign him to a "hometown discount" salary of $12-$15 million per year for 4 years, so we can retain Diggs at $10 million per year, not to mention Barr.

As for drafting a QB, I'd take a flyer on a guy in the 6th or 7th round if we thought it was valuable. For me, "valuable" is a guy that has great intangibles, good college success, but is either too slow (like Brady), short (like Russell Wilson), or doesn't have a strong enough arm (like Keenum). Sure, maybe that one characteristic will cripple his game, but maybe not.
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