Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

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S197
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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by S197 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:40 pm

Looks clean to me, he didn't lead with the crown of the helmet or his forearm. They just collide into each other.

https://imgur.com/a/mfqko

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by DavidKarki » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:19 pm

S197 wrote:Looks clean to me, he didn't lead with the crown of the helmet or his forearm. They just collide into each other.

https://imgur.com/a/mfqko


But it's still offensive pass interference! That picture is the DEFINITION of it! So it's STILL a penalty! And don't tell me that that much of it wasn't 100% deliberate, 100% by design. The Saints WR just failed to disguise it at all.
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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:57 pm

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by VikingLord » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:06 pm

Mothman wrote: It's obviously open to interpretation but I don't see intent to injure. It looks to me like Thomas was running his route and Sendejo ventured right into it. I think the upraised arm was probably just a last second reflex. Thomas is looking back at Brees for most of the play, not eyeballing a target. There's a second, slow motion view of it available here.
I don't know what Williams is made of. Maybe it is iron or something that gives him heft well beyond what his size indicates, but all things being equal, I'd expect both of them to end up on the ground in that situation. Not necessarily both to be injured, but both to wind up down at the least.

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:10 pm

DavidKarki wrote: But it's still offensive pass interference! That picture is the DEFINITION of it! So it's STILL a penalty! And don't tell me that that much of it wasn't 100% deliberate, 100% by design. The Saints WR just failed to disguise it at all.
It doesn't meet the definition of offensive PI because the ball hadn't been thrown yet.

You can read the rule here:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nf ... erference/

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by Raz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:32 pm

Isn't there illegal blocking down field

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by me4get » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:20 pm

Mothman wrote: It doesn't meet the definition of offensive PI because the ball hadn't been thrown yet.

You can read the rule here:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nf ... erference/


it says right on that page:
Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. See Article 2 for prohibited acts while the ball is in the air and Article 4 for prohibited acts prior to the pass.
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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:01 pm

me4get wrote:it says right on that page:
Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. See Article 2 for prohibited acts while the ball is in the air and Article 4 for prohibited acts prior to the pass.
Oops. You're correct. Thanks. Only defensive pass interference requires the ball to be in the air.

Apparently, the Nyquil I took earlier left me a bit foggy...

However, the rules also state (on pages 34-35 of the 2017 rulebook):
Note: If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference.
The officials clearly didn't think Thomas was throwing a block or otherwise intentionally making contact. It doesn't look like it to me either but as usual when it comes to film, people seem to interpret it differently.

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by DavidKarki » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:27 pm

Mothman wrote: However, the rules also state (on pages 34-35 of the 2017 rulebook):
The officials clearly didn't think Thomas was throwing a block or otherwise intentionally making contact. It doesn't look like it to me either but as usual when it comes to film, people seem to interpret it differently.
If you think that was anything but intentional, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you real cheap. :roll:

Thomas had 2 jobs on that play:

1) Pick Sendejo
2) Act like he didn't mean to pick Sendejo, just enough to ensure the flag doesn't get thrown.

He failed at (2), and the refs inexplicably picked the flag up.

Fact is, he did intentionally make contact. That was the entire design of the route. Common sense and your eyes should tell you that.

And, of course, Sean Payton's long history of bending rules like saltwater taffy. Or this case, openly breaking them due to the refs' long history of lax enforcement. (As evidenced by the fact that the head-to-head nature of the hit was the only thing they considered...which absolutely gobsmacks me.)

If the Catch Rule is the #1 order of off-season business for the NFL Rules Committee, the clear definition and ruthless enforcement of offensive PI (and its close cousin, ineligible illegally downfield – and often blocking too early, to boot – on 99% of bubble/hitch screens) needs to be #2. I know this is about the equivalent of strictly calling traveling in the NBA, but enough is enough. Rare is the NFL pass play that doesn't violate 1 of those 2 rules, simply because coaches know it's not called.
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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by TSonn » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:02 am

Yeah, I'm obviously a homer but Rhodes is so close on that play I feel like he knows if it was dirty or not. And his reaction tells us that answer. I've never seen Rhodes that emotional on the football field even when other guys go down injured.

Doesn't really matter except to put another checkbox in the Sean Payton is a terrible human being to some and nothing to others.

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:51 am

TSonn wrote:Yeah, I'm obviously a homer but Rhodes is so close on that play I feel like he knows if it was dirty or not. And his reaction tells us that answer. I've never seen Rhodes that emotional on the football field even when other guys go down injured.

Doesn't really matter except to put another checkbox in the Sean Payton is a terrible human being to some and nothing to others.

Can't argue about Payton but:
“I mean, it wasn’t a dirty hit watching it on film,” Rhodes said. “(Thomas) was running his route and he just braced his hit on ‘Dejo. At that moment, I thought it was dirty, but as I looked at it on film, it wasn’t dirty at all.”
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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:46 am

DavidKarki wrote: If you think that was anything but intentional, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you real cheap. :roll:
Apparently, I can go in on that bridge with Xavier Rhodes and the officials. ;)

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:30 am

Even at the game there were mixed reactions.

Most folks around me thought it was intentional and a brutal pick up of the flag.

I personally didn't see it that way. I thought it was unintentional.

Undoubtedly, though, it messed with Rhodes' head. He lost focus and got burned on the next play. If there's one thing Xavier can learn, it's a bit more self control in these super-emotional moments. He's my favorite Vikings player, currently, so I mean that as a final thing to work on, because other than that he's one of the best players in the league, IMO.

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by TSonn » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Can't argue about Payton but:
Well dang - I'm wrong!

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Re: Divisional Round Game Thread: Vikes-Saints

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:04 am

Texas Vike wrote:Even at the game there were mixed reactions.

Most folks around me thought it was intentional and a brutal pick up of the flag.

I personally didn't see it that way. I thought it was unintentional.

Undoubtedly, though, it messed with Rhodes' head. He lost focus and got burned on the next play. If there's one thing Xavier can learn, it's a bit more self control in these super-emotional moments. He's my favorite Vikings player, currently, so I mean that as a final thing to work on, because other than that he's one of the best players in the league, IMO.
I didn't think it was intentional (the headhunting) but it should have been a penalty. It's not about intent to hurt someone. It's about intent to pick someone.

Kyle Rudolph has talked about this. He says the trick is that you have to pick the guy without making it look like you picked the guy. You have to look like you're just running your route, and it happened to cause a collision. But refs will call it if you stop or redirect your route. Thomas stopped his route to brace for the impact. That should have been a penalty.

The good news is that Zimmer says Sendejo is doing "much better." I know that doesn't mean much because it's all dependent on how he does in the concussion protocol. But Zimmer rarely comments on the condition of his players. I see this as a good sign, although I admit I'm an optimist.
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