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 Saints are the better team 
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
VikingLord wrote:
Falcons34 wrote:
3) why you mad tho


Because I'm on a Vikings fan board as a fan of the Vikings and I'm entitled to be a homer here. I didn't go to a Falcons fan board and say anything about Case Keenum. I didn't go to a Saints fan board and say anything about Case Keenum. I'm on a Vikings board.

I've been a fan of the Vikings since I can remember. I've watched them blow it in key situations time and time again. I've watched them as underdogs that stomped heavily favored opponents (thinking 1987) until crashing and burning short of the Superbowl to being the heavily favored team that loses to the underdog, often in incredibly improbable ways (1998 comes to mind). So I'm entitled to come on this board as a long suffering fan of this team and dream that this time is going to different, that this QB who basically was thrown on the NFL trash heap and plucked off it by Rick Spielman with a baseline $2 million one-year contract to be the team's 3rd string QB can accomplish what Vikings football royalty like Joe Kapp, Fran Tarkenton, Randal Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and yes, Brett Favre, could not accomplish. Yeah, here I'm entitled to that dream, and I don't need, nor appreciate, fans from teams the Vikings aren't even playing to come on here and "lol" at it. In fact, nobody here needs that, wants that, or should have to put up with that.

Come back if the Vikings and Falcons make it out of the divisional round.

I was not making fun of your dream because I do feel bad for Vikings fans but.....


Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Falcons34 wrote:
VikingLord wrote:
Falcons34 wrote:
3) why you mad tho


Because I'm on a Vikings fan board as a fan of the Vikings and I'm entitled to be a homer here. I didn't go to a Falcons fan board and say anything about Case Keenum. I didn't go to a Saints fan board and say anything about Case Keenum. I'm on a Vikings board.

I've been a fan of the Vikings since I can remember. I've watched them blow it in key situations time and time again. I've watched them as underdogs that stomped heavily favored opponents (thinking 1987) until crashing and burning short of the Superbowl to being the heavily favored team that loses to the underdog, often in incredibly improbable ways (1998 comes to mind). So I'm entitled to come on this board as a long suffering fan of this team and dream that this time is going to different, that this QB who basically was thrown on the NFL trash heap and plucked off it by Rick Spielman with a baseline $2 million one-year contract to be the team's 3rd string QB can accomplish what Vikings football royalty like Joe Kapp, Fran Tarkenton, Randal Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and yes, Brett Favre, could not accomplish. Yeah, here I'm entitled to that dream, and I don't need, nor appreciate, fans from teams the Vikings aren't even playing to come on here and "lol" at it. In fact, nobody here needs that, wants that, or should have to put up with that.

Come back if the Vikings and Falcons make it out of the divisional round.

I was not making fun of your dream because I do feel bad for Vikings fans but.....

You feel bad for Vikings fans?

Remind me again how many Super Bowls the Falcons have won. Thought so.

We've won 20 division championships, been to 9 NFCCGs and 4 Super Bowls. Don't cry for us.

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Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:

Wish I could make it up there to your fine city. Good luck and have fun, and try to be hospitable to the handful of Saints fans you encounter. I promise if you ever make it down to the Superdome, you'll be welcomed and shown a good time. The only battles should be on the field.


Not to be a ####, I have nothing against anyone. But that city is a ####. In every facet. Been there twice, not pleasure, trust me. I had to, its filthy, the people are rude and its gang ridden beyond acceptable levels. And there are a few people on this board that made the trip there in 09 and had bad experiences with drunks and others inside/outside and at the hotels. So spare me the "we will welcome you" speech. Nola is the equivalent of mogadishu in a US version.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:47 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Breesus wrote:
Hi All, Saints fan here from the deep south, where it's a balmy 50 deg. I promise I'm not here to troll, though I think the OP may be. Just wanted to read fan thoughts and give you the opponents take...

I would've much preferred to play the Iggles in the Divisional round, and I think the Failcons will will come away with that win. That's not good for the Vikes or the Saints because I think they are the most dangerous 6th seed we've seen in a while.

I think we all agree that the Vikes have a serviceable offense and a very good defense, just as the Saints have a serviceable defense and a very good offense. The best thing the Vikes can do is mimic the Panthers strategy in the wild card round - stack the box and take the running game away. This didn't work well for the Panthers because Brees lit them up, but the Panthers don't have Rhoads and two outstanding safeties. If the Vikes secondary can effectively man-up on Saints receivers, then the Vikes front seven will give Brees trouble. I've seen a lot of comments here about Brees being immobile, but I would disagree. He's no Russell Wilson, but he has an excellent awareness of closing pressure and is athletic enough to scramble. He's also very good at throwing on the run. Still, if the run game is slowed and the Vikes get pressure, Brees will have trouble.

The other side of the ball is a big question mark for me. The Saints D is an opportunistic, bend-but-don't-break group with a couple of elite playmakers - Cam Jordan and Marshon Lattimore. Lattimore will probably post up on Thielen all day, and that should be a good matchup. However, other than our rook free safety, Williams, the rest of the Saints defensive backfield is generally weak. They can all make plays, but they can all get burnt as well. The Saints have been middling against the run, but I'm not overly concerned with Murray. I think McKinnon will pose a bigger problem.

So, elite offense (#2) meets elite defense (#1). It will be a great battle, but the game comes down to a middling Vikes offense (#11) versus a middling Saints defense (#17). Saints 28, Vikes 24

Wish I could make it up there to your fine city. Good luck and have fun, and try to be hospitable to the handful of Saints fans you encounter. I promise if you ever make it down to the Superdome, you'll be welcomed and shown a good time. The only battles should be on the field.

Nice take.

Unfortunately for you, there's no way your team is putting up 28 against the Vikings at US Bank Stadium.

No team has scored more than the 19 your team put up against the Vikes in our building on opening night. And as we all know, you guys had just four field goals for 12 points until garbage time. Only four teams ALL SEASON scored as many as 20 against the Vikings, road or home. Only two teams, Washington and Carolina, put up 28 or more at any point this season. If you put up 28 against us at home, I'll be absolutely shocked. This defense is the best you'll face all year.

And you should be concerned with Murray. He rushed for 745 yards over his last 10 games, coming on strong the further he was removed from offseason ankle surgery. He's playing at a very high level right now, and the Vikings are actually a better rushing team statistically with Murray and McKinnon than they were with Dalvin Cook, who was leading the league in rushing when he went down.

This is not a "middling" offense. Statistically, it's not where yours is, but it's easily top-third. It was top-10 for most of the season, dipping a bit the last two games in games the Vikings took early leads and milked clock.

I believe we're the better team, and we're at home. I'm not saying we can't lose, but I'd put our chances to win at 70%.



You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints. Not too difficult to keep Trubisky, Hundley, Flacco, and Kizer under wraps. Cousins put up 30 pts on the Vikes. Same with the other side of the ball - Keenum's numbers are mostly against crap defenses. Still, the Vikes beat the Saints handily in Week 1. If you remember, the Saints had an identity crisis in the first few games - trying to get AP carries. Murray is a good back. Just noting that the Saints have done a decent job against good backs. I'm so glad we're not facing Dalvin Cook.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:58 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Boon wrote:
Breesus wrote:

Wish I could make it up there to your fine city. Good luck and have fun, and try to be hospitable to the handful of Saints fans you encounter. I promise if you ever make it down to the Superdome, you'll be welcomed and shown a good time. The only battles should be on the field.


Not to be a ####, I have nothing against anyone. But that city is a ####. In every facet. Been there twice, not pleasure, trust me. I had to, its filthy, the people are rude and its gang ridden beyond acceptable levels. And there are a few people on this board that made the trip there in 09 and had bad experiences with drunks and others inside/outside and at the hotels. So spare me the "we will welcome you" speech. Nola is the equivalent of mogadishu in a US version.


OK, so we're getting ugly now? Mogadishu, huh? Maybe New Orleans isn't your style, or maybe you just don't know how to have a good time. Gazallions of tourists disagree with you. Enjoy your -30 deg tailgating too.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:04 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:
You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints. Not too difficult to keep Trubisky, Hundley, Flacco, and Kizer under wraps. Cousins put up 30 pts on the Vikes. Same with the other side of the ball - Keenum's numbers are mostly against crap defenses. Still, the Vikes beat the Saints handily in Week 1. If you remember, the Saints had an identity crisis in the first few games - trying to get AP carries. Murray is a good back. Just noting that the Saints have done a decent job against good backs. I'm so glad we're not facing Dalvin Cook.


I think that's a pretty level-headed take on the game, but I'll 'nit-pick' just a couple of items:

1) Everybody forgets that we played Rodgers (at least at the start) of one of the Packer games. It was a clean tackle by Barr that took Rodgers out of the game and his stat line before he went out wasn't overly impressive - 62.5 passer rating before we knocked him out. Granted, there wasn't a large sample of passes, but it's not our fault that our defense plays clean physical ball. So I always find that criticism of the defense someone suspect.

2) The "only decent teams" (excluding the Saints) were teams the Saints lost to, so what does that say, exactly?
I realize the Saints beat Carolina, but both those games were in NO and we had to travel to play the Panthers. Any way you cut it, We went 2-1 against the good teams that the Saints when 1-2 against.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:37 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Just Me wrote:
Breesus wrote:
You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints. Not too difficult to keep Trubisky, Hundley, Flacco, and Kizer under wraps. Cousins put up 30 pts on the Vikes. Same with the other side of the ball - Keenum's numbers are mostly against crap defenses. Still, the Vikes beat the Saints handily in Week 1. If you remember, the Saints had an identity crisis in the first few games - trying to get AP carries. Murray is a good back. Just noting that the Saints have done a decent job against good backs. I'm so glad we're not facing Dalvin Cook.


I think that's a pretty level-headed take on the game, but I'll 'nit-pick' just a couple of items:

1) Everybody forgets that we played Rodgers (at least at the start) of one of the Packer games. It was a clean tackle by Barr that took Rodgers out of the game and his stat line before he went out wasn't overly impressive - 62.5 passer rating before we knocked him out. Granted, there wasn't a large sample of passes, but it's not our fault that our defense plays clean physical ball. So I always find that criticism of the defense someone suspect.

2) The "only decent teams" (excluding the Saints) were teams the Saints lost to, so what does that say, exactly?
I realize the Saints beat Carolina, but both those games were in NO and we had to travel to play the Panthers. Any way you cut it, We went 2-1 against the good teams that the Saints when 1-2 against.



Good points. The hit on Rodgers was legal, yes, but certainly intentionally damaging. He was driven into the ground. Still, this is football.
Saints split with the Falcons, but beat Carolina 3 times, once in Carolina. Vikes also lost to the Lions, who the Saints beat. It's hard to use division games for comparisons as the teams know each other so well. Saints had the 15th hardest strength of schedule based on opponent records. Vikes had the 27th. It means nothing come Sunday.

No denying that the Vikings are an excellent team - I'd take that defense over everyone else. Vikes are favored and rightfully so.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:57 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:
Saints split with the Falcons, but beat Carolina 3 times, once in Carolina. Vikes also lost to the Lions, who the Saints beat. It's hard to use division games for comparisons as the teams know each other so well.


I agree. The Vikings lost (our only home loss) to Detroit but actually beat them when we went to Detroit (figure that one). In any case, Division games are always tough. We did sweep the Bears, but they never make it easy on us.

Breesus wrote:
No denying that the Vikings are an excellent team - I'd take that defense over everyone else. Vikes are favored and rightfully so.


Which is why I am not convinced the Saints are the better team (a nod to the thread title). However, there is no doubting that Saints are an excellent team as well, and that is why I'm not 'predicting' a Vikings win, either. It's a curious mindset this year for me: I am not apprehensive about losing, but I'm not 100% convinced the Vikings will advance after Sunday. I think it promises to be a great matchup and whoever has the best game (this Sunday) will move on. I'm reasonably comfortable the Vikings will put together a good game.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:34 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Just Me wrote:
Breesus wrote:
Saints split with the Falcons, but beat Carolina 3 times, once in Carolina. Vikes also lost to the Lions, who the Saints beat. It's hard to use division games for comparisons as the teams know each other so well.


I agree. The Vikings lost (our only home loss) to Detroit but actually beat them when we went to Detroit (figure that one). In any case, Division games are always tough. We did sweep the Bears, but they never make it easy on us.

Breesus wrote:
No denying that the Vikings are an excellent team - I'd take that defense over everyone else. Vikes are favored and rightfully so.


Which is why I am not convinced the Saints are the better team (a nod to the thread title). However, there is no doubting that Saints are an excellent team as well, and that is why I'm not 'predicting' a Vikings win, either. It's a curious mindset this year for me: I am not apprehensive about losing, but I'm not 100% convinced the Vikings will advance after Sunday. I think it promises to be a great matchup and whoever has the best game (this Sunday) will move on. I'm reasonably comfortable the Vikings will put together a good game.


Thoughtful comments. Enjoy the game!


Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Cliff wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
Trust me HalfGiz, I'm not trolling I just don't want another playoff disappointment is all. I have a sick feeling about this game.


F-That. I'm super pumped for this game. If I end up disappointed then so be it - might as well be disappointed now because the Saints aren't the best team in the league this year and if we can't beat them we aren't winning the super bowl and if we aren't winning the super bowl I don't care when they exit. Besides, there aren't many more teams I'd like to see the Vikings beat in the playoffs.


Agreed 100%. I have nothing else to say in this thread[/quote



Who Dat Nation here. Cant believe some of you are still sour over a game 9 years ago. Oh they hit us to hard. They were getting paid to hit us hard. No one said anything about the 5 turnovers. Could have been 7. Grow the hell up and take some damn credit for own downfall. See ya Sunday...


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Drew Brees has a 7-5 playoff record which really should be 6-6 because the refs defeated the Vikings in their last playoff game vs NO


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:09 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
SuburbannSaint wrote:

Who Dat Nation here. Cant believe some of you are still sour over a game 9 years ago. Oh they hit us to hard. They were getting paid to hit us hard. No one said anything about the 5 turnovers. Could have been 7. Grow the hell up and take some damn credit for own downfall. See ya Sunday...


From a purely rational point of view: I do not disagree with your sentiment, IMO AP did more to lose that game than anyone else. However, welcome to Vikings Land. This is probably one of the most cursed and long suffering fan bases in the entire NFL. Everyone says the Browns have it bad, but it is worse to have been so close and then to completely falter so many times. Believe me, we hold grudges. After we beat you guys we will move on to spending a week gnashing our teeth over our defeat by the Falcons in 1998.

That being said, thanks for coming on here and posting. This sort of stuff is part of what makes the NFL fun.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
SuburbannSaint wrote:
Who Dat Nation here. Cant believe some of you are still sour over a game 9 years ago. Oh they hit us to hard. They were getting paid to hit us hard. No one said anything about the 5 turnovers. Could have been 7. Grow the hell up and take some damn credit for own downfall. See ya Sunday...


I don't care about the refs or hits or any of that. I have my opinion about it but it doesn't really factor in. They beat us in the playoffs so I want to see us beat them in particular. I also want the Falcons for that reason. I wasn't even alive when the Steelers beat them in the super bowl and I want to see them there so we can beat them too.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Cliff wrote:
SuburbannSaint wrote:
Who Dat Nation here. Cant believe some of you are still sour over a game 9 years ago. Oh they hit us to hard. They were getting paid to hit us hard. No one said anything about the 5 turnovers. Could have been 7. Grow the hell up and take some damn credit for own downfall. See ya Sunday...


I don't care about the refs or hits or any of that. I have my opinion about it but it doesn't really factor in. They beat us in the playoffs so I want to see us beat them in particular. I also want the Falcons for that reason. I wasn't even alive when the Steelers beat them in the super bowl and I want to see them there so we can beat them too.


Not talking about all fans. I understand the love hate thing. Believe me, no one hates the falcons as much as us. We do have to be logical at some point but then again, fanatics get a pass for being crazy at times.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:
Good points. The hit on Rodgers was legal, yes, but certainly intentionally damaging. He was driven into the ground. Still, this is football.


Did a Saints fan just say that Barr intentionally hurt Rodgers? A Saints fan??? Really? The huge balls on this guy. Wow.

Dude, Rodgers hurt himself. It was a clean tackle and he didn't get "driven" into the turf. Barr fell onto him and Aaron's put his arm down to brace himself, which is what resulted in the break. It happens. There was no malice or intent to injure.

I hope your dirty coach doesn't send your guys out to hurt our QB again. And lets hope the zebras call a good game, too.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:35 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
SuburbannSaint wrote:
[
Who Dat Nation here. Cant believe some of you are still sour over a game 9 years ago. Oh they hit us to hard. They were getting paid to hit us hard. No one said anything about the 5 turnovers. Could have been 7. Grow the hell up and take some damn credit for own downfall. See ya Sunday...


Y'all make sure you come on back here after the game on Sunday and we'll see what you have to say then.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:45 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:
No denying that the Vikings are an excellent team - I'd take that defense over everyone else. Vikes are favored and rightfully so.


It's semi-useful to look at things like record against common opponents and such to gauge the relative strength of the two teams when playing each other, but for me it comes down to matchups and venue. I think those will decide the outcome of this game, and I think most favor the Vikings.

The Saints offense is oriented around Drew Brees. Yes, they have a strong running game and a very good RB tandem in Kamara and Ingram. I will also grant that they have a solid offensive line. And, I will grant that Michael Thomas is a solid, if unspectacular, wide receiver. The problem for the Saints is, none of their strengths on offense really exposes a defensive weakness of the Vikings, especially with the Vikings being at home and having the crowd noise factor in their favor. Brees is a fantastic, veteran QB, and yes, I'll concede he's probably capable of winning this game with his arm if he is willing to take some chances and his blockers can keep him vertical and give him a pocket to throw out of. But I think the Vikings will get pressure on Brees. Probably a lot of pressure. I don't see Ingram and Kamara having a huge day running the ball. I don't see them having a huge day as receivers either. The Vikings could always implode defensively, and if they are sloppy or fall for the classic Saints misdirection plays, could give up some big chunks at times, but I don't see them having to sell out to stop any aspect of the Saint offense. They have the personnel to play the Saints straight up, which really will make Brees beat them. As I said, if there is a QB in the playoffs right now who could do that it's probably Brady or Brees, but Brees is going to have his work cut out for him.

The Saints defense, OTOH, doesn't match up nearly as well against the Vikings offense as most Saints fans seem to want to believe. Yes, Case Keenum has no playoff experience, but this is a home game, so both the field and crowd noise will not be a factor for him. He's not Drew Brees in terms of experience, but he's been his equal all year in terms of performance. So barring some massive reversion by Keenum, he poses as much of a threat to the Saint defense as Brees does to the Viking defense. He's mobile, accurate on the run, and has been smart with the ball. The one thing he's fallen off on a bit lately is his deep ball timing, but he can get it downfield when the opportunities present themselves. I think other aspects of the Vikings offense match up well against the Saints defense. The Saints have not been strong defending against TEs. The Vikings have some good pass catching TEs who can create mismatches with the Saints defense in the middle. The Saints have not been stellar defending runs between the tackles. The Vikings have been successful running between the tackles. I'd even say that is a strength of their offense. On the perimeter, Lattimore has had a great season, but he's still a rookie and he will be under constant pressure in this game trying to defend some savvy route runners in Thielen and Diggs. I'd be surprised if the Vikings don't target him several times in this game and make him prove he can handle it.

These are two good teams, and if this game were in New Orleans and the venue factor was in favor of the Saints, I'd be more inclined to think we'd see a game more like the one in 2009 where the Vikings ended up pressured into a lot of errors, but this game isn't in New Orleans and I really don't see a Mike Zimmer team making enough errors to turn the tide in favor of the Saints. The Saints are a dangerous team and a good team and will be a tough out, but the Vikings should be up to the task of getting that out and moving on.

We'll see what happens on Sunday, and may the best team win.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:36 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:

You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints. Not too difficult to keep Trubisky, Hundley, Flacco, and Kizer under wraps. Cousins put up 30 pts on the Vikes. Same with the other side of the ball - Keenum's numbers are mostly against crap defenses. Still, the Vikes beat the Saints handily in Week 1. If you remember, the Saints had an identity crisis in the first few games - trying to get AP carries. Murray is a good back. Just noting that the Saints have done a decent job against good backs. I'm so glad we're not facing Dalvin Cook.
Wow. can't believe you went there. Lets see who did the Saints defense keep under wraps. Oh yeah, Trubisky, Hundley, Taylor, Petty...........I know, lets go for those top defense's the Saints played. In decreasing order by passing yards per game. Tampa, 32. Twice. New England, Yes New England, 30th in yards per game. Detroit, 27. Green Bay 23, Jets 21, Bills 20..........you get the idea. Some of the same teams the Vikings played.

BTW, Kamara was in for 50% of all offensive plays in the first game. Peterson, 14%. Seems to me like they already had their identity, they just couldn't put it together. Kamara and Ingrahm are top RB duo in the league. Want to guess who the number two duo is? Hint, they play for the Vikings and they only played mostly in only 12 games. Not so much the first 4.

And I don't know were this crap that some talking head on the NFL channel claimed that Lattimore didn't play the first game. But he sure did. Actually he played in 94% of all defensive snaps.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Raptorman wrote:
BTW, Kamara was in for 50% of all offensive plays in the first game. Peterson, 14%.


Did not know this. Thanks Raptorman


Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:50 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
So to address the title of this thread.

"The Saints are the better team"

Just one question. Are the Saints a better team with Brees and Kamara out? Because if you really want to judge the Vikings against them, you have to remember our two top offensive starters haven't been playing most of the year.

If the Saints can be were they are now without those two players most of the year, then yes, they are the better team.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:
You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints.

You do see the folly in your "haven't beaten a decent team" statement, don't you?

We not only beat those teams -- including your Saints -- but we beat them HANDILY. Every one of them. Beat your team the worst. You got four field goals until garbage time, when the game was 29-12.

And by the way, you LOST to the same teams we beat! The Rams. Tampa. Spit with Atlanta. So where do you get off telling Vikings fans our team hasn't beaten anybody?

Face it. We're at home, and we're the better team. Which means your season ends Sunday. You know it, and we know it.

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Post Re: Saints are the better team
SuburbannSaint wrote:
Who Dat Nation here. Cant believe some of you are still sour over a game 9 years ago. Oh they hit us to hard. They were getting paid to hit us hard. No one said anything about the 5 turnovers. Could have been 7. Grow the hell up and take some damn credit for own downfall. See ya Sunday...

You know what? I agree with you. We Vikings fans need to stop complaining about 2009. Yes, I think Gregg Williams should have been banned for life, and Sean Payton got off easy with a year suspension. But the truth is that the Vikings imploded with 5 turnovers and handed a game to a team they completely dominated. You won. Good for you.

But you know what, friend? It ain't cool to come onto a Vikings message board troll the people here. Show some respect. You want to talk football, fine. But that crap isn't welcome.

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Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:45 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
I was not making fun of your dream because I do feel bad for Vikings fans but.....[/quote]
You feel bad for Vikings fans?

Remind me again how many Super Bowls the Falcons have won. Thought so.

We've won 20 division championships, been to 9 NFCCGs and 4 Super Bowls. Don't cry for us.[/quote]

Does not matter because neither team has won a superbowl.... so I don't know why you say thought so lol


Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:37 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Falcons34 wrote:
Quote:
I was not making fun of your dream because I do feel bad for Vikings fans but.....

Quote:
You feel bad for Vikings fans?

Remind me again how many Super Bowls the Falcons have won. Thought so.

We've won 20 division championships, been to 9 NFCCGs and 4 Super Bowls. Don't cry for us.


Does not matter because neither team has won a superbowl.... so I don't know why you say thought so lol

Wasn't it like 42 years before the Falcons put together back to back winning seasons? :whistle:

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Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:27 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Raptorman wrote:


And I don't know were this crap that some talking head on the NFL channel claimed that Lattimore didn't play the first game. But he sure did. Actually he played in 94% of all defensive snaps.


and got torched. I don't know who he was guarding but either way he was torched.


Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:30 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Raptorman wrote:
Two players make up most of their offense. Kamara and Ingrahm. Stop them and you stop the Saints.

Yards from scrimmage.
Code:
Mark Ingram      1540
Alvin Kamara     1554
Michael Thomas   1245
Ted Ginn          826
Brandon Coleman   364
Coby Fleener      295


Vikings are more balanced on offense.

Yards from scrimmage.
Code:
Adam Thielen       1287
Jerick McKinnon     991
Latavius Murray     945
Stefon Diggs        862
Kyle Rudolph        532
Laquon Treadwell    200
Jarius Wright       198

Not criticizing you personally, but analyzing the offense without considering the defense is one of those cognitive biases - when trying to evaluate teams, one looks at stats, and the most readily available are offensive stats. Frankly, I'm surprised we look this good compared to the Saints. Playing on a neutral field, against a generic defense, I suspect that the Saints offense would perform better than our offense.

But when you compare the defenses, and the home field advantage, it's a pretty stark Vikings advantage. I looked for a common opponent where we played at home and the Saints played on the road, after the season had settled in a bit (since it's clear that the first game of the season didn't really count) and found the Rams games. We played the Rams at home, gave up 7 points and 254 yards. The Saints played the Rams on the road (no home crowd benefit) and gave up 26 points on 415 yards. And I just remembered Tampa Bay. The Vikes gave up 17 points and 342 yards to the Bucs, while the Saints on the road gave up 31 points and 455 yards. That's like two TD's difference and 130 yards average in those games.


Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
soflavike wrote:
Breesus wrote:
Good points. The hit on Rodgers was legal, yes, but certainly intentionally damaging. He was driven into the ground. Still, this is football.


Did a Saints fan just say that Barr intentionally hurt Rodgers? A Saints fan??? Really? The huge balls on this guy. Wow.

Dude, Rodgers hurt himself. It was a clean tackle and he didn't get "driven" into the turf. Barr fell onto him and Aaron's put his arm down to brace himself, which is what resulted in the break. It happens. There was no malice or intent to injure.

I hope your dirty coach doesn't send your guys out to hurt our QB again. And lets hope the zebras call a good game, too.


LOL - you should watch the video again. Not saying he was intentionally trying to break a collarbone, but he was intentionally trying to cause pain, and that's part of football. If you still believe that bounty crap had something to do with the Saints beating the Vikes in '09, then there's nothing I can tell you. Now if you want to #### about the refs, I can't argue so much. A better reason is the 20 or 30 turnovers the Vikes gave up that day.


Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:22 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Raptorman wrote:
Breesus wrote:

You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints. Not too difficult to keep Trubisky, Hundley, Flacco, and Kizer under wraps. Cousins put up 30 pts on the Vikes. Same with the other side of the ball - Keenum's numbers are mostly against crap defenses. Still, the Vikes beat the Saints handily in Week 1. If you remember, the Saints had an identity crisis in the first few games - trying to get AP carries. Murray is a good back. Just noting that the Saints have done a decent job against good backs. I'm so glad we're not facing Dalvin Cook.
Wow. can't believe you went there. Lets see who did the Saints defense keep under wraps. Oh yeah, Trubisky, Hundley, Taylor, Petty...........I know, lets go for those top defense's the Saints played. In decreasing order by passing yards per game. Tampa, 32. Twice. New England, Yes New England, 30th in yards per game. Detroit, 27. Green Bay 23, Jets 21, Bills 20..........you get the idea. Some of the same teams the Vikings played.

BTW, Kamara was in for 50% of all offensive plays in the first game. Peterson, 14%. Seems to me like they already had their identity, they just couldn't put it together. Kamara and Ingrahm are top RB duo in the league. Want to guess who the number two duo is? Hint, they play for the Vikings and they only played mostly in only 12 games. Not so much the first 4.

And I don't know were this crap that some talking head on the NFL channel claimed that Lattimore didn't play the first game. But he sure did. Actually he played in 94% of all defensive snaps.


Of course I went there! The Vikes have the #1 defense in the league - that's your identity. No one's claiming the Saints 17th ranked D is it's strength. Murray and McKinnon are certainly talented, as is Thielen and Diggs. I think the game comes down to the Vikes offense vs Saints defense, and I don't feel like the Saints have an advantage. Oh, and Kamara had 6 carries in the first game while AP had 7. Both had only 18 yds.


Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:32 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Breesus wrote:

LOL - you should watch the video again. Not saying he was intentionally trying to break a collarbone, but he was intentionally trying to cause pain, and that's part of football. If you still believe that bounty crap had something to do with the Saints beating the Vikes in '09, then there's nothing I can tell you. Now if you want to #### about the refs, I can't argue so much. A better reason is the 20 or 30 turnovers the Vikes gave up that day.


:roll: Barr's hit was a tackle just like any other player would put on someone.

As for '09, Favre could barely walk by the end of the game. "Bounty crap"?? It happened. There is no denying that. Especially when Darren Sharper tweeted "X marks the spot" when everyone found out Favre's ankle was still an issue the following season and they played the Saints week 1. Pretty pathetic that your DC and that defense had to do that in order to try and win the game.

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Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:32 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Breesus wrote:
You're right - tough to score on this D. IF the Saints put up more than 25 I think we win. Another point to consider is that the Vikes haven't beaten a decent team, other than Rams, Falcons, and Saints.

You do see the folly in your "haven't beaten a decent team" statement, don't you?

We not only beat those teams -- including your Saints -- but we beat them HANDILY. Every one of them. Beat your team the worst. You got four field goals until garbage time, when the game was 29-12.

And by the way, you LOST to the same teams we beat! The Rams. Tampa. Spit with Atlanta. So where do you get off telling Vikings fans our team hasn't beaten anybody?

Face it. We're at home, and we're the better team. Which means your season ends Sunday. You know it, and we know it.


Your post reeks of fear. So are you saying that Tampa, Chicago, Cleveland, and Cincy are good teams?! Hell, the only good teams that the Saints beat were in our division. A few others were marginal - the Lions, Skins, and Bills. I didn't come here spouting that the Saints will destroy the Vikes, just wanted to get a fan's take. Some of your brethren have made some thoughtful, knowledgeable comments, so thanks to them.


Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:44 am
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