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 Saints are the better team 
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Post Saints are the better team
I know this will totally come off the wrong way, but we are not the better overall football team. We have a better defense, but they have one of the GREATEST QB's to ever play the game. As much as Keenum has done, he isn't anywhere near Brees' level, and he hasn't had to come from behind at all this year. I actually have no expectations heading into this game and it is a good feeling for me. There is no way we win this game and if we do I'm glad to be called out by everyone.


Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:58 pm
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
The Saints have a middling defense. The media likes to expound on how improved it is, but it has improved from worst to average.

We have an elite D and home field. While Keenum is not Brees, I don’t think we need him to be in order to win.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:19 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Purple Domination I sure hope you are correct, and I am incorrect. It's just that offensively I don't think we can even mildly compare with the Saints. Keep in mind, in week 1 Bradford torched them with Cook, who was leading the NFL in yards up until his injury. We don't have either luxury and I see us losing badly in all honesty.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:31 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Saints have a better offense in the sense that they have a great QB and RB-stable. Receiving corps I'm not convinced they can outdo Diggs-Thielen-Rudolph.

But our defense is stronger than theirs.

And then there is the home field advantage.

It's not going to be easy, but I've said it before and I'll say it again : If we make it past the Saints, we're going all the way.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:49 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Lol

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:55 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
what exactly is so funny 808, please explain?????? Is this a joke to you or something?


Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:16 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
@mosscarter

The reason I'm not going to come down on you too hard is that I know what this is about. I understand that this is simply you, as a Vikings fan, constructing whatever psychological defensive mechanism that your mind believes is required to ease the pain of a 1-and-done to the Saints in US Bank Stadium this year.

But what I will not let you slide through here with is the false argument that they are the "Better overall team".
You can employ other arguments to justify your pre-emptive defense mechanisms, but we are going to pick apart this one...

Below you will find both teams 2017 Team stats, and what their league rank is for most of them.
Green fields indicate an advantage, red fields indicate a disadvantage, and grey fields indicate a tie.
Image

So after we really compare many different team stats its fallacious to make the statement that either team is the clear-cut better overall team.

A few extra things on our side is; we beat them in head-to-head pretty handily (regardless of circumstances), We're 11-1 in our last 12 games which includes victories over 2 playoff teams - we barely lost to Carolina at home after giving up two flukey rushing TDs, The Saints are 3-3 in their last 6 - going 2-2 against playoff teams - This also includes an UGLY loss to Tampa Bay in Tampa ... while playing starters, The Saints end up with a 3-4 record vs Playoff teams while our record ends up at 3-2 against Playoff teams. One last thing on our side is look at the passing touchdowns in the chart above... 25/8 vs 23/8... In favor of ..... The Vikings

So like I said Moss, I'm not knocking what your doing, just the argument you are using to do it.
#SKOL

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:23 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
I think this defense is every bit as good as the defense the Seahawks had when they won the super bowl. Are they as good as the 2000 Ravens? I'm not there yet but I think if the offense is just somewhat competent and gives them 20 points without putting the opposing team on a short field we will win.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:32 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
I appreciate your analysis 84 Breaks, but my question is this. How, in any lifetime, is Keenum a better QB than Brees? The reality is he is not, and we must come to terms with that. I already have. How can we logically beat these guys other than Brees turning the ball over????


Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:35 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
mosscarter wrote:
I appreciate your analysis 84 Breaks, but my question is this. How, in any lifetime, is Keenum a better QB than Brees? The reality is he is not, and we must come to terms with that. I already have. How can we logically beat these guys other than Brees turning the ball over????



By just kicking the loving dog crap out of them on defense and the offense has long sustained drives that generate some type of points. And keep Brees off the field as much as possible.

Wow if you are that scared of the Saints you are gonna pee the bed when we have NE or Pitt in the SB! You better go get a script for a whole body muscle relaxer to get thru that one.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:45 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
mosscarter wrote:
I appreciate your analysis 84 Breaks, but my question is this. How, in any lifetime, is Keenum a better QB than Brees? The reality is he is not, and we must come to terms with that. I already have. How can we logically beat these guys other than Brees turning the ball over????


If the better QB always won Dan Marino would have some super bowl rings. I can see this game going either way but to act like the Vikings have no chance with the best defense in the league and home field is crazy. Brees has been known to turn it over when under pressure. If the Vikings play their game they will win.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:53 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Maelstrom88 wrote:
I think this defense is every bit as good as the defense the Seahawks had when they won the super bowl. Are they as good as the 2000 Ravens? I'm not there yet but I think if the offense is just somewhat competent and gives them 20 points without putting the opposing team on a short field we will win.


@Maelstrom88 - This is for you
Also anyone else who wants to see how our 2017 Vikings stack up with some relevant super bowl champions of the past ...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =drive_web

I threw this together so we could compare the great teams to ours.. enjoy

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Last edited by 84BreaksAnkles on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:56 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
mosscarter wrote:
I appreciate your analysis 84 Breaks, but my question is this. How, in any lifetime, is Keenum a better QB than Brees? The reality is he is not, and we must come to terms with that. I already have. How can we logically beat these guys other than Brees turning the ball over????


How did the Tampa Bay Buccaneers logically beat these guys in week 17? BTW Saints did not rest starters for this game!

How about Carolina's defense forcing a hugely pivotal interception on 4th down at the end of the game, giving Cam one last chance to win the game... IN NEW ORLEANS..

Don't be ridiculous, don't act like this is the Cleveland Browns against the 1985 Bears... We have a logical chance, and a good one at that..
I never said Keenum was better, but 25tds/8int for the Vikings is a better line than the 23tds/8ints that (mythical, untouchable unicorn in your eyes) Brees put up this year.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:59 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
alot of people like to say that week 1 "doesn't count". essentially trying to scrap it off like some preseason game. That game allowed us to get a game up on them, and helped us get the 2 seed. just remember this, they JUST lost to the bucs. We essentially held them to 12 points had it not been for the primordial garbage time 3 deep safety prevent nonsense td we always seem to give up. They would get a few plays and then stall, over and over and over. 4 field goals.

The side argument to the "their offense wasn't in sync yet" is neither was our defense. I trust this defense against anyone right now. Like zim said, they have an edge to them. They are hungry and can smell blood in the water.

Now as was stated in another thread , given the snakebitten, choketastic history we have all grown accustomed to, the best course of action is don't expect much. It has gotten me through the last few seasons. I almost broke protocol during the panthers game but i caught it fast and fixed the situation :rofl:

There are two mindsets i have going right now. The glass is half empty , lose by a fg at the last second typical end to the season we have come to expect. But the second mindset here is that there is something special about this squad. This is as complete a team as I have ever seen this franchise put on the field, and they all have that edge to them, starting with keenum, who I hope doesn't do anything stupid.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:29 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
mosscarter wrote:
what exactly is so funny 808, please explain?????? Is this a joke to you or something?


Sorry, just sounds like a bait thread.

If you think there is no way the Vikings win this game, well, I have no words.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:40 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Boon wrote:
alot of people like to say that week 1 "doesn't count". essentially trying to scrap it off like some preseason game. That game allowed us to get a game up on them, and helped us get the 2 seed. just remember this, they JUST lost to the bucs. We essentially held them to 12 points had it not been for the primordial garbage time 3 deep safety prevent nonsense td we always seem to give up. They would get a few plays and then stall, over and over and over. 4 field goals.

The side argument to the "their offense wasn't in sync yet" is neither was our defense. I trust this defense against anyone right now. Like zim said, they have an edge to them. They are hungry and can smell blood in the water.



My view all season on the whole 'Saints offense wasn't in sync yet' is that it is a load of crap. People act like the Saints somehow changed after the Patriots game when they went on the big winning streak, but I just saw it as the Saints playing 2 of the top 4 teams in the league to start the season. The Saints just simply were not as good as them. Then, they got to go play mediocre teams like the Dolphins, Bears, Packers (/w Hundley), and Tampa Bay and of course they go on a big streak. Sure, their offense got better a little bit better over that time. Almost all teams get better as the season goes on as since they get more experience playing with each other, but I don't think they had some miraculous change where they became so much better than they were in their first couple games.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:48 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:07 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Moss we already have a saints thread going and you open a whole other thread stating the Saints are the better team...You trolling??

I agree with Cliff it's just you're opinion.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:32 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Trust me HalfGiz, I'm not trolling I just don't want another playoff disappointment is all. I have a sick feeling about this game.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:54 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
mosscarter wrote:
Trust me HalfGiz, I'm not trolling I just don't want another playoff disappointment is all. I have a sick feeling about this game.


F-That. I'm super pumped for this game. If I end up disappointed then so be it - might as well be disappointed now because the Saints aren't the best team in the league this year and if we can't beat them we aren't winning the super bowl and if we aren't winning the super bowl I don't care when they exit. Besides, there aren't many more teams I'd like to see the Vikings beat in the playoffs.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:57 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Cliff wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
Trust me HalfGiz, I'm not trolling I just don't want another playoff disappointment is all. I have a sick feeling about this game.


F-That. I'm super pumped for this game. If I end up disappointed then so be it - might as well be disappointed now because the Saints aren't the best team in the league this year and if we can't beat them we aren't winning the super bowl and if we aren't winning the super bowl I don't care when they exit. Besides, there aren't many more teams I'd like to see the Vikings beat in the playoffs.



Same here.

My brother and I are flying in from Jersey and TX to see our first meaningful Vikings game live in 40 plus years of being fans from our youth in central MN. Couldn't be more excited and I love that it's the Taints that we get to play. It'll be raucous and I expect a very hard fought, electrifying game.

It's normal to brace yourself for the disappointment this time of year, emotions run high when the stakes do, but there's no rational reason to fear the Saints. We were the better team all season and I suspect that will show up once again on Sunday. Can't wait to be a part of it! :rock:


Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:05 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
besides the pats or the steelers, the saints are the best team we will face. OK, bring it on. To be the best we have to beat the best. This is what we should want. It is what it is and the best team will will win the game. Go Vikes !!!! :govikes: :v): :appl:


Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:40 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Texas Vike wrote:
It's normal to brace yourself for the disappointment this time of year, emotions run high when the stakes do, but there's no rational reason to fear the Saints.



I actually think there are quite a few rational reasons to fear the Saints but that doesn't mean the Vikings can't beat them. I'm expecting a hard-fought, competitive game but if they play up to their potential, the Vikes should advance.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:44 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
However, I think you are equivocating Carolina to us and that is a mistake. Their defense gave up an 80 yard TD on like the 2nd play of the game. By half time they had surrendered 21 points. I know the media is bloviating about the Panther's red zone futility on offense, and that is a valid commentary, but that isn't the main reason they lost. The main reason they lost was their Defense surrendered 21 points by half time. It took then 2 1/2 quarters to consistently get Brees off the field without points. That is why they lost that game.

Digging deeper, the Panthers were mostly able to contain Kamara in the first half, but the problem was that their secondary was not up to the task of covering the Saints WR (Which are not scary) and their Front was unable to generate any kind of pass rush. In a word: Embarrassing. There is literally zero reason to expect the Vikings secondary to not be up to the task of covering that stable of WR and TE. They shut down far superior players during the regular season. I strongly doubt the Saints will even employ the same game plan vs. our Defense.

On offense, why should we feel that we cannot run on their defense at any level? Keep in mind, what we saw yesterday from Carolina was a rushing attack behind a woefully inadequate OL and a QB whose passing game is, shall we say, mediocre at best. In addition, their WR are nothing fabulous. Against the Vikings the Saints D are going to have fear what is probably the best overall WR group in football. Diggs and Thielen find ways to consistently get open. Rudolph is a major matchup issue vs. any LB or Safety. If they sell out to try and stop our power running game Keenum will be able to punish them over the top. I get that they have Latimore, but who is going to cover the other two?

The main concern I have is if their high risk defensive style can produce a few early turnovers we might be stuck in catch up mode which will allow Cameron Jordan to impact the game more than he should. However, Keenum has been pretty good against the blitz, so the Saints might fear doing that as it could put them at risk of being down 2 scores vs. our Defense which is an almost certain loss.

This weekend we saw the weaknesses of flawed teams exposed. Once again Jared Goff was shown to be not quite ready for prime time. Likewise, Jacksonville showed that while it's Defense is elite, it's QB play is woefully inadequate. In fact, I take back what I said about the Jags. Unless they generate some serious takeaways, against PIT and NE, they are not going to the SB. Bortles is not going to run for 80+ yards to salvage his anemic passing numbers and win a championship. The Panthers showed the state of the OL is bad and they really depend on the yin/yang of Newton to carry the day. Defensively, their secondary was once again exposed as not being up to the task against an elite passer.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:19 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Brees is 1-4 in road playoff games for his career (ironically, his only win happening in Philly against Nick Foles...).
He was also 4-4 in road games this year.
US Bank is one of the toughest (if not the toughest overall) places to play in the NFL.
Our home field advantage and defense should make him look like an average QB like it did week 1.

Plus, Keenum played better than Brees all season.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:40 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
TSonn wrote:
Brees is 1-4 in road playoff games for his career (ironically, his only win happening in Philly against Nick Foles...).


Interesting, I did not know this. Glad to find another reason to be optimistic!

TSonn wrote:
Plus, Keenum played better than Brees all season.


Against pressure, yes. But don't forget Brees set the accuracy record again this year and looked to be balling last night. The good news is that pressure against immobile quarterbacks is one of our specialties!


Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:59 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
mosscarter wrote:
I know this will totally come off the wrong way, but we are not the better overall football team. We have a better defense, but they have one of the GREATEST QB's to ever play the game. As much as Keenum has done, he isn't anywhere near Brees' level, and he hasn't had to come from behind at all this year. I actually have no expectations heading into this game and it is a good feeling for me. There is no way we win this game and if we do I'm glad to be called out by everyone.


If you are of the opinion the Vikes have no chance to win this game after what they've demonstrated all season, then you haven't been paying attention. If you're content to let the product of an entire season be reduced to the relative post season experience and reputation of the 2 starting QBs for each team, why come here and tell the rest of us? By that logic, the only time to pay attention or care about the Vikings is the next time they head into a season with a veteran QB who has gone deep into the playoffs before. Which they've done. Many times already. No Superbowl wins yet. And that's because it isn't that simple. It never was, and never will be.

Honestly, I'm happier this season than I've, well, ever been watching the Vikings primarily because they *don't* have those big-name offensive stars and the expectations that go with them. Better for us that people write off guys like Keenum and Thielen because they weren't high draft picks or big names heading into the season. Let everyone focus on guys like Brees and Sean Peyton. They can take all the pressure of expectations heading into this game. The no-name Vikings just need to get out the sledge hammers and go to work busting this Saints team and their stars up, then get ready to head on to the next demolition job. You can believe that or not. Your choice. But when the dust settles this year, that QB you give no credit to is going to be standing there holding the Lombardi trophy right alongside his lunch pail teammates.

Who knows? Maybe after this season is over, Case Keenum is going to be one of those veteran big-name QBs...


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:05 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Purple Domination wrote:
TSonn wrote:
Plus, Keenum played better than Brees all season.


Against pressure, yes. But don't forget Brees set the accuracy record again this year and looked to be balling last night. The good news is that pressure against immobile quarterbacks is one of our specialties!


I agree he looked good in the first half. Second half he struggled quite a bit. Plus, he was at home. My comment about Keenum playing better than Brees was simply going by passer rating and QBR. Keenum has him beat by a decent amount in both this year.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:14 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Cliff wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
Trust me HalfGiz, I'm not trolling I just don't want another playoff disappointment is all. I have a sick feeling about this game.


F-That. I'm super pumped for this game. If I end up disappointed then so be it - might as well be disappointed now because the Saints aren't the best team in the league this year and if we can't beat them we aren't winning the super bowl and if we aren't winning the super bowl I don't care when they exit. Besides, there aren't many more teams I'd like to see the Vikings beat in the playoffs.


Agreed 100%. I have nothing else to say in this thread

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:26 am
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Post Re: Saints are the better team
Actually I do have one more thing to say, AFTER we win on Sunday, I will be the one that starts a thread titled "MossCarter.....we told you so" :D Am I allowed to do that??!! :lol:

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