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 Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion 
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Muqali wrote:
My biggest fear for this game is that we don’t get aggressive enough in manhandling their offense. No one on our roster was with us for the 2009 season.... except Thielen.

Brian Robison is the only guy still around from 2009. The media has been asking him about this year vs 2009 and I think he made a comment about him and Newman being the only 2 guys on this team with experience past the wild card game
JDLon wrote:
my biggest concern is still Forbath funnily enough.

Forbath is definitely a concern, I'd hate for it to come down to our kicker at the end of the game.

My biggest fear though is the officiating. It has been atrocious in the playoffs so far. Even Mike Pereria admitted there was some terrible officiating this weekend and he nearly always sides with his old buddies.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:53 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
My biggest concern is containing their running game and the history of Mike Zimmer defenses historically not performing well against the running game in the playoffs.

  • Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
  • Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
  • Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
  • Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better containing them to 91 yards.

I think the Vikings rushing defense is a lot better than some of the others he had. In 2009, for example, his defense was 24th in rushing yards per game allowed. This Vikings team is 7th in that area.

If we can stop their rushing game I think our secondary is up to the challenge of defending the pass. Their defense just gave up what should have been 32 points. In the end I think our offense can score more points going up against their defense than their offense can put up against our defense. In theory at least. The reality is that "any given Sunday" applies but I think the Vikings can do this.

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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
In this game the Saints outside WR/TE are really not that scary. That should allow the Vikings to mostly defend them with their base package, not requiring double coverage to contain anyone. Then it comes down to our athletic LB doing what they have done all season: Making plays and tackling to contain the RB. Our pass rush neesd to show up a lot more than the Panthers' did, but that isn't asking much since the Panthers' pass rush took the first three quarters of that game off yesterday.

My big fear in this game is if their high risk defense hits lucky 7 on some early plays and generates take aways / short fields for Brees. If we end up down by 2 scores early it could be ugly. That being said, our OL is a lot better than the Panthers' so we should expect to be to be able to run against them.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:23 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Zimmer-led teams/defenses are 2-2 against Drew Brees and Sean Payton.

2006: Cin beat NO in NO (Brees threw for over 500 yards)
2010: NO beat Cin in Cin (Cin was 2-10 this year)
2014: NO beat MN in NO (Cassel got hurt, Teddy's first game, no AD)
2017: MN beat NO in MN

I don't know what it means, but I was bored at work and wanted to look it up.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:01 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
mansquatch wrote:
In this game the Saints outside WR/TE are really not that scary.


While I do think Michael Thomas is scary and a big-time WR, we match up really well against all their playmakers.

Michael Thomas | Xavier Rhodes (big, physical guys)
Ted Ginn | Trey Waynes (speedy)
Snead | Mac/Newman
Hill | Kendricks
Kamara/Ingram | Barr


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:04 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Raptorman wrote:
FWIW, Vikings open as 3 point favorites in Las Vegas.


So in other words a coin flip on a neutral field. I am surprised we are not getting a slightly bigger edge here.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:04 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Pressure Brees early, often and and throughout the game and the Vikings win. Simple as that.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:14 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Pressure Brees early, often and and throughout the game and the Vikings win. Simple as that.



That's a key but they're going to have to stop the run too and they'll need to do it without making themselves too vulnerable to the pass.

I think the Vikes are the better team in this match-up but I see the Saints as a particularly dangerous opponent for a few reasons:

1.) They have the weapons to hurt a defense in both the running and passing games.
2.) They are explosive so even if a defense dominates them for most of the game they still have the potential to score or even win on big plays.
3.) They have an opportunistic defense and turnovers can play a big role in determining who wins in the playoffs.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:34 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Analysis

https://zonecoverage.com/2018/vikings/h ... r-vikings/

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:36 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Fun fact of the day:

The Saints defense have the 6th worst 3rd down defense in the NFL giving up first downs 41% of the time

Only teams worse: Bucs, Colts, 49ers, Cowboys and Packers.

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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fun fact of the day:

The Saints defense have the 6th worst 3rd down defense in the NFL giving up first downs 41% of the time

Only teams worse: Bucs, Colts, 49ers, Cowboys and Packers.


Saints also: three straight road losses.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:15 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
More fun facts:

Saints are only 4-4 on the road this season, and have lost 3 in a row on the road. Brees is only 1-4 on the road in the playoffs.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Since we know it's going to come up. People are going to point to the Saints RB's and claim that will be the reason they are a better team than the Vikings. So, I did a little number crunching and came up with this. Yes they have been better than the Vikings RB's. But not by much. I took the numbers from the last 12 games. Since Murray/Mckinnon didn't really play much those first 4 games I thought it was only fair to compare the players in the same amount of games. This actually benefits the Saints players because in those first 4 games the Saints RB's only had 1 TD between the two of them. Yeah, 4 games, 1 TD, rushing or receiving.

Anyway. Stats are on a per game basis.

Code:
                 ATP    YPG   YPA   REC   YPG    YPC
Murry/McKinnon   28.5   112   3.9   4.7   39.7   8.5
Kamara/Ingrahm   24.4   133   5.5   8.7   80.8   9.3


It should also be noted that in those last 12 games, the Saints played 6 games against teams ranked in the bottom 10 of rushing defense in the league. So 56% of their yardage came against teams ranked 23rd or worse in rushing for the year. Tampa, 23rd. 2 games. Jets 24th, Rams 28th, Bills 29th, Redskins 32nd. Vikings only had 3 games against teams in that range(Redskins, Rams and Bengals). 25% of Vikings yardage came against teams ranked in the bottom 10.

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... BDhK4a9M_4

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... _gHlEobML6

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... GqDeLccqXR

Great breakdowns of why the saints are great and what the Vikings will have to stop.

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Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Raptorman wrote:
Since we know it's going to come up. People are going to point to the Saints RB's and claim that will be the reason they are a better team than the Vikings. So, I did a little number crunching and came up with this. Yes they have been better than the Vikings RB's. But not by much. I took the numbers from the last 12 games. Since Murray/Mckinnon didn't really play much those first 4 games I thought it was only fair to compare the players in the same amount of games. This actually benefits the Saints players because in those first 4 games the Saints RB's only had 1 TD between the two of them. Yeah, 4 games, 1 TD, rushing or receiving.

Anyway. Stats are on a per game basis.

Code:
                 ATP    YPG   YPA   REC   YPG    YPC
Murry/McKinnon   28.5   112   3.9   4.7   39.7   8.5
Kamara/Ingrahm   24.4   133   5.5   8.7   80.8   9.3


It should also be noted that in those last 12 games, the Saints played 6 games against teams ranked in the bottom 10 of rushing defense in the league. So 56% of their yardage came against teams ranked 23rd or worse in rushing for the year. Tampa, 23rd. 2 games. Jets 24th, Rams 28th, Bills 29th, Redskins 32nd. Vikings only had 3 games against teams in that range(Redskins, Rams and Bengals). 25% of Vikings yardage came against teams ranked in the bottom 10.


Thanks for the breakdown David!

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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
I feel like this is going to be the longest work week ever. I just want this game to be here right now. All I keep envisioning in my head is the Vikings whooping the Saints up and down the field and heading the the NFC Championship game against the Falcons. Who we will then beat to advance and beat the Steelers in the Super Bowl. All these years of heartbreak and bad losses to these teams we now cant stand.....will all get what they have coming from our Vikings. If it lines up like this, it would be an unbelievably satisfying season to say the least.

Mark my words, if (and when) we win this game, we are winning the Super Bowl.

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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
JDLon wrote:
my biggest concern is still Forbath funnily enough. Kickers are key this late in the season and I think there's still a big question mark over him. Gano missed that 25 yarder early on yesterday, if he made that Panthers are only 2 behind on that last drive with less pressure and a relatively short 3 pointer to lead. (I know football isn't that easy and the game shakes out differently if he makes the 3 early, but the point still stands)

Titans beat the Chiefs by 1 point...Chiefs missed their only field goal attempt from 48 yards.

That's two games that could have swung the other way with better kicking. I really hope kicking doesn't cost us again


This a hundred times over. It's rare to blow out a team in the playoffs, especially in the divisional round (if anyone brings up that year that never existed I keel you!). We need to execute in all 3 phases. Look at the Rams, great special teams but that's really what killed them with all the turnovers.

Honestly this week was a bunch of sloppy games. So many dropped passes. I hope the coaches key on keeping guys focused, you could really see the inexperience of some teams this past weekend.

Also, unleash the Barr!!


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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Forgot how bad the officiating was in 2009. Start at 00:43. V


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Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
S197 wrote:
Also, unleash the Barr!!


Have a feeling he's going to get close to MVP this post season.

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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
808vikingsfan wrote:
Forgot how bad the officiating was in 2009. Start at 00:43. ]


No.

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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
dead_poet wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
Forgot how bad the officiating was in 2009. Start at 00:43. ]


No.



lol. Just adding some fuel for this weekend.

I think the Vikings are good enough this year to beat the Saints and refs.

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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Raptorman wrote:
Since we know it's going to come up. People are going to point to the Saints RB's and claim that will be the reason they are a better team than the Vikings. So, I did a little number crunching and came up with this. Yes they have been better than the Vikings RB's. But not by much. I took the numbers from the last 12 games. Since Murray/Mckinnon didn't really play much those first 4 games I thought it was only fair to compare the players in the same amount of games. This actually benefits the Saints players because in those first 4 games the Saints RB's only had 1 TD between the two of them. Yeah, 4 games, 1 TD, rushing or receiving.

Anyway. Stats are on a per game basis.

Code:
                 ATP    YPG   YPA   REC   YPG    YPC
Murry/McKinnon   28.5   112   3.9   4.7   39.7   8.5
Kamara/Ingrahm   24.4   133   5.5   8.7   80.8   9.3


It should also be noted that in those last 12 games, the Saints played 6 games against teams ranked in the bottom 10 of rushing defense in the league. So 56% of their yardage came against teams ranked 23rd or worse in rushing for the year. Tampa, 23rd. 2 games. Jets 24th, Rams 28th, Bills 29th, Redskins 32nd. Vikings only had 3 games against teams in that range(Redskins, Rams and Bengals). 25% of Vikings yardage came against teams ranked in the bottom 10.



An average difference of 62 yards from scrimmage a game actually seems pretty substantial.


Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
TeamChaplain wrote:
Thielen was a rookie in 2013.

PurpleMustReign wrote:
I think you meant Robison but you are right. We need to be aggressive on all front. Not too aggressive of course, but Shurmur and Zimmer only needs to look at KC and see that going conservative in the playoffs is not always smart.

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Sorry guys I was trying to be subtle but failed, all I mean is Thielen was a Viking fan before he was a player so was there with us in those losses. I actually thought Robison was on the team in 2009 but looked it up and didn't see him on the roster so didn't mention it.


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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Mothman wrote:

An average difference of 62 yards from scrimmage a game actually seems pretty substantial.


Yes it would be normally. But.............considering that Kamara and Ingrahm are the second and third in passes caught on the team, I would expect it. Vikings spread the ball around more.

Code:
                 Rec   Yards
Michael Thomas   104   1245
Alvin Kamara      81    826
Mark Ingram       58    416
Ted Ginn          53    787
Brandon Coleman   23    364

Adam Thielen      91   1276
Stefon Diggs      64    849
Kyle Rudolph      57    532
Jerick McKinnon   51    421
Laquon Treadwell  20    200


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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Muqali wrote:
Sorry guys I was trying to be subtle but failed, all I mean is Thielen was a Viking fan before he was a player so was there with us in those losses


Ah, I see what you did there :appl:


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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Purple Domination wrote:
Muqali wrote:
Sorry guys I was trying to be subtle but failed, all I mean is Thielen was a Viking fan before he was a player so was there with us in those losses


Ah, I see what you did there :appl:


Sherels too?

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Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:51 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Cliff wrote:
I think the Vikings rushing defense is a lot better than some of the others he had. In 2009, for example, his defense was 24th in rushing yards per game allowed. This Vikings team is 7th in that area.


Minnesota is actually 2nd in the leage in Rushing Yards allowed per game/total for the 2017 season.
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
Raptorman wrote:
Mothman wrote:

An average difference of 62 yards from scrimmage a game actually seems pretty substantial.


Yes it would be normally. But.............considering that Kamara and Ingrahm are the second and third in passes caught on the team, I would expect it. Vikings spread the ball around more.

Code:
                 Rec   Yards
Michael Thomas   104   1245
Alvin Kamara      81    826
Mark Ingram       58    416
Ted Ginn          53    787
Brandon Coleman   23    364

Adam Thielen      91   1276
Stefon Diggs      64    849
Kyle Rudolph      57    532
Jerick McKinnon   51    421
Laquon Treadwell  20    200



I see your point. Thanks!


Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:56 am
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
808vikingsfan wrote:
Purple Domination wrote:
Muqali wrote:
Sorry guys I was trying to be subtle but failed, all I mean is Thielen was a Viking fan before he was a player so was there with us in those losses


Ah, I see what you did there :appl:


Sherels too?
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Post Re: Divisional Round: Vikings vs Saints Pre-Game Discussion
84BreaksAnkles wrote:
Cliff wrote:
I think the Vikings rushing defense is a lot better than some of the others he had. In 2009, for example, his defense was 24th in rushing yards per game allowed. This Vikings team is 7th in that area.


Minnesota is actually 2nd in the leage in Rushing Yards allowed per game/total for the 2017 season.
Image


Thanks for the correction. I had somehow flipped to offense where we're 7th in rushing yards per game.

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