Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

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S197
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by S197 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:43 pm

I don't think Treadwell is a bust but he's certainly not worth the 1st round pick so far. Even for a #3 receiver, 184 yards isn't very good, he's barely ahead of Wright despite getting much more snaps. Take Pittsburgh for example, you have Antonio Brown and Le'veon, but you still have guys like Juju and Martavis putting up 500+ and 400+ yards, respectively. And these are mid-round guys.

I do like that Treadwell made two key 3rd down conversions last Sunday and most WR's take roughly 2 to 3 years to get to peak, so I'm not writing him off yet. But there's simply no way he's earned his draft pick so far.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:25 pm

Alaskan wrote: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... counts.htm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1

You can sift through these links if you want.

An arguemnt can be made for Michaell Thomas and Tyreek Hill to start over Diggs. There are others as well, just look for yourself.

I am not going to argue with you on this. My position on this subject has been stated above. Up to this point Laqun Treadwell (1st rd) has NOT lived up to expectations, period! If you want to defend a 1st round pick that has 17 receptions for 184 yards and no touchdowns in nearly 2 seasons and is 3rd or 4th or 5th on the depth chart behind guys undrafted (Theilen), 5th rd (Diggs) and now it appears to me, by looking at snap counts since week 8, he is losing snaps to Wright (4th rd) and Floyd (2nd rd) as well.........I will sit back and laugh at you like the rest of the rational people on this board.

I am a Treadwell fan, I have high hopes of him, but he has done nothing up to this point. Its early to label him a total bust, but he's on his way unless something changes dramatically.
Well for starters you didnt read my post close enough and were incorrect on some of your information. I said FIRST round WRs over the past 3 years. Michael Thomas and Hill were not drafted in the first round. Also, Michael Floyd was a first rounder. Not 2nd. :confused:

Second, like I said before, WHO CARES where Thielen and Diggs were drafted!! They are two of the better WRs in the NFL arent they?? So does it really matter where they were drafted? No. No less they had a lot more experience than Treadwell did in 2016 so they were probably getting the nod off the bat either way. And they performed at a high level and never slowed down. Thats my point. Are we just going to pull them when they were both playing at a high level?? No it wasnt going to happen. I'm not saying he's "put up numbers". I'm telling you why he hasnt. I'm not "pleased" with Treadwell not because of his performance but just because of how the situation turned out. I mean we have two studs so I cant complain but I'm a huge Treadwell fan and think he has the tools to be a really good WR. He just wasnt given the opportunity and probably wont unless Diggs doesnt take an extension.

And just take a gander at the week 14 reaction thread because on there I explained myself regarding this topic as well. There were fans on this board that came out and agreed with where I was coming from. So not only did you just insult me by what you said but you insulted others on this board. Laugh all you want but you might want to read more into what others have said before you start throwing insults out there. Just saying
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:49 pm

S197 wrote:I don't think Treadwell is a bust but he's certainly not worth the 1st round pick so far. Even for a #3 receiver, 184 yards isn't very good, he's barely ahead of Wright despite getting much more snaps. Take Pittsburgh for example, you have Antonio Brown and Le'veon, but you still have guys like Juju and Martavis putting up 500+ and 400+ yards, respectively. And these are mid-round guys.

I do like that Treadwell made two key 3rd down conversions last Sunday and most WR's take roughly 2 to 3 years to get to peak, so I'm not writing him off yet. But there's simply no way he's earned his draft pick so far.
Right and being worthy of your pick and being a bust are two different things IMO. Treadwell is a solid 1st round pick for many teams IMO. It was for us given what we had at the time. However, nobody saw Thielen turning the corner or CP learning an offense after 4 years at the beginning of 2016. Treadwell would be a #2 WR on a LOT of teams in this league. But my point is, it's hard to tell if he was or wasnt worth that pick when he cant get the opportunity because of who he has in front of him.

It's hard to sit here and say, "yeah picking Treadwell was a terrible idea." MANY of us wanted a WR that year. Why? Because we had Diggs who was good but still not fully proven and what.....nothing. We picked what we needed and that was WR. Thielen comes onto the scene day 1 and never looks back. So do we really know if he's worth the pick or not?? No. He cant be a bust when he hasnt failed at anything. He hasnt had the opportunity TO fail. He might not ever have that opportunity here in Minnesota. That is my point.

What is a bust? A bust is a highly drafted player or signing that starts many games, is given plenty of opportunity and plays very poorly. Well below what they are worth. (Source: PHP's Dictionary of stupid NFL terms :P )

^That, is not Laquon Treadwell. That is Christian Ponder. That is Troy Williamson. That is Jamarcus Russell. That is Ryan Leaf. That is not Laquon Treadwell.

Bottom line is, it's going to boil down to time. Whether Diggs takes an extension or not, Treadwell will either be here or somewhere else. If he performs, he'll prove many wrong. If he doesnt, then yes, he is a bust. But until then, I wouldnt say he's anything
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:51 pm

We might be able to get a 6th rd for Tread, nothing much more the that. He has shown very little since he joined the NFL.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:55 pm

I'll pass on addressing that one :wallbang:
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Purple Reign » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 pm

I'll throw out one more observation. While Diggs has done ok after coming back from injury, he doesn't appear to be 100%, maybe around 80% or so. He just doesn't have the explosiveness he did before his injury so he hisn't getting as much separation. So if Diggs at 80% is still better than Treadwell at 100% (at least AFAIK), then maybe the problem is not Treadwell but with the Vikings rating him worth a first round draft pick.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:01 pm

Purple Reign wrote:I'll throw out one more observation. While Diggs has done ok after coming back from injury, he doesn't appear to be 100%, maybe around 80% or so. He just doesn't have the explosiveness he did before his injury so he hisn't getting as much separation. So if Diggs at 80% is still better than Treadwell at 100% (at least AFAIK), then maybe the problem is not Treadwell but with the Vikings rating him worth a first round draft pick.
That's a personal observation and you having no clue if Diggs is actually 100% or not. Didnt he juke out about 3 guys on a long first down vs. Carolina? Like severely juke them out? Probably cant do that on an "80%" groin is my guess.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Purple Reign » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: What is a bust? A bust is a highly drafted player or signing that starts many games, is given plenty of opportunity and plays very poorly. Well below what they are worth. (Source: PHP's Dictionary of stupid NFL terms :P )
I'm not sure I agree that a player has to have started many games and given plenty of opportunity. Like I said, players prove their worth in practice, they aren't just given game time just because of where they were drafted. Maybe he shouldn't be starting over Thielen and Diggs, but he should be a solid #3 by now and that just hasn't happened, and it's not because of not getting opportunities, it's because he hasn't proven in practice that he is better than even Wright.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Alaskan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:08 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Well for starters you didnt read my post close enough and were incorrect on some of your information. I said FIRST round WRs over the past 3 years. Michael Thomas and Hill were not drafted in the first round. Also, Michael Floyd was a first rounder. Not 2nd. :confused:

Second, like I said before, WHO CARES where Thielen and Diggs were drafted!! They are two of the better WRs in the NFL arent they?? So does it really matter where they were drafted? No. No less they had a lot more experience than Treadwell did in 2016 so they were probably getting the nod off the bat either way. And they performed at a high level and never slowed down. Thats my point. Are we just going to pull them when they were both playing at a high level?? No it wasnt going to happen. I'm not saying he's "put up numbers". I'm telling you why he hasnt. I'm not "pleased" with Treadwell not because of his performance but just because of how the situation turned out. I mean we have two studs so I cant complain but I'm a huge Treadwell fan and think he has the tools to be a really good WR. He just wasnt given the opportunity and probably wont unless Diggs doesnt take an extension.

And just take a gander at the week 14 reaction thread because on there I explained myself regarding this topic as well. There were fans on this board that came out and agreed with where I was coming from. So not only did you just insult me by what you said but you insulted others on this board. Laugh all you want but you might want to read more into what others have said before you start throwing insults out there. Just saying
I made my point. Your changing the argument again, like usual. Blah, blah, blah is all i hear from you on this subject from this post on. I want to make myself clear. I am not insulting anyone. I am disagreeing with your view on this completely. Your wrong on this, period!! Generally speaking, your narcissism is just overwhelming. You present things like your the end all be all on everything football, and no one else can have a position that differs from yours....... Give it a rest!!! All it does is take away from your credibility.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Purple Reign » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:08 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: That's a personal observation and you having no clue if Diggs is actually 100% or not. Didnt he juke out about 3 guys on a long first down vs. Carolina? Like severely juke them out? Probably cant do that on an "80%" groin is my guess.
Obviously that is a personal opinion, just like everyone else has an opinion. To me, he just doesn't appear to be 100%. It's hard to specify a certain percent, just throwing out a number. Ok, 90% - does that make you feel better?
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm

Alaskan wrote:
I made my point. Your changing the argument again, like usual. Blah, blah, blah is all i hear from you on this subject from this post on. I want to make myself clear. I am not insulting anyone. I am disagreeing with your view on this completely. Your wrong on this, period!! Generally speaking, your narcissism is just overwhelming. You present things like your the end all be all on everything football, and no one else can have a position that differs from yours....... Give it a rest!!! All it does is take away from your credibility.
Actually take the time to read this because there are fans on here that understand exactly where I am coming from. And he’s not the only one that’s agreed.
PacificNorseWest wrote:I, for one, love PHP's enthusiasm. He knows his #### too....subjective in response, but I see it objective in nature. Refreshing, really.
PacificNorseWest wrote:I'm not going to defend the guy that hard, but people have a real a hard time separating being a fan and really understanding football. The latter of which PHP understands. He may not be eloquent in his points, but there are only a few of us that look and understand the game at a deeper level beyond just what a homer would see. Not implying any of this is you, but I've been around here just long enough to see some of the bs I make fun of Seahawk fans for. We all get in heated debates; it's fun -- at least, it is for me. I understand the repetitiveness because a lot of it never sinks in despite its validity. It's just that people hate when they can't equally validate their side of things. Just how it goes. *shrugs*
I’m not sitting here telling you you are “wrong”. Do I agree with you? No. And you sit here and continue to ignore my points and just say “blah blah blah” like a 10 year old. If I don’t have “credibility” in your eyes, so be it. No skin off my back but I have credibility among others. I’ll be wrong when my opinion is proved wrong. If Treadwell is given the opportunity to start and plays poorly either here or on another team, I’ll be the first to eat crow but until that time, you aren’t going to change what I believe and the series of events that took place when he got here last year. I laid it all out there for everyone to try and understand where I was coming from. Some got it, others didn’t and that’s fine.

This was one of the last things I said in the other thread regarding Treadwell and it’s the last thing I’m addressing with you. I’m guessing you didn’t read it so I figured I’d put it here so the same convo isn’t going on in two threads. If you don’t like it or agree with it, so be it. But you aren’t changing my mind on it no matter how “wrong” you think I am.
This whole Treadwell thing, I laid it all on the line. I explained in detail why his situation is the way it is. I've pulled from just about every source I could over the past few years. Spielman talks him up, Zim talks him up, Hazell talks him up saying he's been "amazing". You cant find a bad thing on the guy. That tells me he's putting in the work. He's doing what he needs to in practice. But like I said in the other thread, name me a first round WR in the last 3 years that could currently play over Thielen or Diggs?? If you cant name one then what could Laquon Treadwell (with little opportunity) possibly do to surpass Thielen and Diggs given how they've played this year??? That is my point. If Laquon Treadwell turns into a starter and absolutely sucks, then I'll be the first to eat crow but nobody on here, literally not one person, can say he's gotten the opportunity and has failed. You literally CAN NOT say that and that's what I am trying to get fans to understand.

I dont hate anyones opinion, I dont think anyones opinion is dumb, we're all entitled to our own but if fans are going to throw the word "bust" around on here, just please try to understand what a bust is and provide some validity behind your posts. Take a close look at the busts of the NFL over the years. Just about every one of them has gotten plenty of opportunities. And every one of them has failed. Until Laquon Treadwell is given that opportunity to fail, then I dont know how anyone could say that with any kind of validity
I’m done with the argument. Nothing will validate anything except time. On to Cincy
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:33 pm

Yeah, Treadwell and Teddy seem to be on every other post. I know im responsible for some of that, but im done reading Treadwell stuff till theres something to read about. And I will try and keep Teddy under one of his threads.
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Re: Week 14 Vikings-Panthers Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:43 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Yeah, Treadwell and Teddy seem to be on every other post. I know im responsible for some of that, but im done reading Treadwell stuff till theres something to read about. And I will try and keep Teddy under one of his threads.
Yeah I was going back and forth in two threads. My fault guys. Done on here
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