It's time to give Case Keenum his due

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Rhodes Closed
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by Rhodes Closed » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:55 pm

I must really be the odd man out not being weirded out by seeing his name on the list since Favre (Marino and Tark aside) is my favorite QB ever. :lol:
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:58 pm

It is really getting annoying (not on here all the time, but on some sites and blogs) to hear how GREAT Case is. He is doing well, making good reads, not getting sacked, few INTs (luckily, cause some of his throws are really bad), but his receivers are bailing him out, especially Adam Theilen. Diggs and Kyle are doing the same thing. I guess Shurmur must have said, just throw it close to them, let them do the rest. I have this terrible feeling in my gut Case's luck is going to run out, and Teddy is going to be too rusty because he wont have the time to get ready. Again I hope I am wrong, but I talk to a lot of friends that are so high on Case, and ask them whats he done. How many 11-5 seasons has he had? Why didnt anyone want him starting this year? Hes either one of the luckiest QBs in the world, getting the starting job when he did, or he is a good QB. So many things are in his favor, like a defense Zimmer trusts. I like Case too, but I want to win a SB just about more then anything. And I know how sad that is, but season after season of something keeping that dream away has worn me down.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:19 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:It is really getting annoying (not on here all the time, but on some sites and blogs) to hear how GREAT Case is. He is doing well, making good reads, not getting sacked, few INTs (luckily, cause some of his throws are really bad), but his receivers are bailing him out, especially Adam Theilen. Diggs and Kyle are doing the same thing. I guess Shurmur must have said, just throw it close to them, let them do the rest. I have this terrible feeling in my gut Case's luck is going to run out, and Teddy is going to be too rusty because he wont have the time to get ready. Again I hope I am wrong, but I talk to a lot of friends that are so high on Case, and ask them whats he done. How many 11-5 seasons has he had? Why didnt anyone want him starting this year? Hes either one of the luckiest QBs in the world, getting the starting job when he did, or he is a good QB. So many things are in his favor, like a defense Zimmer trusts. I like Case too, but I want to win a SB just about more then anything. And I know how sad that is, but season after season of something keeping that dream away has worn me down.
I'm curious.

If Case Keenum leads the Vikings to the NFC Championship, first team ever to host a Super Bowl, will you still be singing this "if Case implodes and Teddy is rusty" song?
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:19 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: I'm curious.

If Case Keenum leads the Vikings to the NFC Championship, first team ever to host a Super Bowl, will you still be singing this "if Case implodes and Teddy is rusty" song?
I'll be as happy as anyone. I hope hes good enough to get us there, because most of the guys he relies are. He got on the team at just the right time. Im just tired of hearing Case is the reason we are here, when I think Teddy could have been playing for us for weeks, getting ready for the big game, with the same record. What song will you be singing if Case goes back to his former self, or AT and the receivers fail to keep bailing him out? The only sin right now is to be a Teddy fan. My point is, I hope Zimmer is right about not trusting his first instincts of letting Teddy play when he was cleared as ready to play.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by John_Viveiros » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:42 am

I like Case Keenum's attitude, and I don't think you can bench the guy after 7 straight wins, but...

I've just re-watched the season so far - well, I still have the Rams and Lions games left to go. Case is not an accurate QB. The ball goes all over the place when he throws. He moves really well. But he under-throws the long ball a lot! And his passes to crossing receivers are behind the guy a lot!

And then he hits Rudolph for that perfect TD last game while taking the hit. He makes some great throws, but he's not that consistent. I think Thielen and Diggs are top of the league in catching contested balls (those that either team can reach).

I hesitate a bit to share this, knowing it will start a big blowup. So let's be adults. No one has shot your dog or stole your girlfriend. Someone just has a different opinion than you about a person that has a pretty inconsequential effect on your life. Here it is: http://presnapreads.com/2017/11/28/case ... ing-casts/
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:07 am

John_Viveiros wrote:I like Case Keenum's attitude, and I don't think you can bench the guy after 7 straight wins, but...

I've just re-watched the season so far - well, I still have the Rams and Lions games left to go. Case is not an accurate QB. The ball goes all over the place when he throws. He moves really well. But he under-throws the long ball a lot! And his passes to crossing receivers are behind the guy a lot!

And then he hits Rudolph for that perfect TD last game while taking the hit. He makes some great throws, but he's not that consistent. I think Thielen and Diggs are top of the league in catching contested balls (those that either team can reach).

I hesitate a bit to share this, knowing it will start a big blowup. So let's be adults. No one has shot your dog or stole your girlfriend. Someone just has a different opinion than you about a person that has a pretty inconsequential effect on your life. Here it is: http://presnapreads.com/2017/11/28/case ... ing-casts/
I appreciate the measured nature of your comments ... same for PurpleKoolaid. I'm not here to start a war.

Let me start by saying that I was one of the first and loudest on this board to criticize Keenum for his ball placement. I don't tend to quote my own posts, but I could show you at least 10 times where I've said the same thing. Here's the deal though ... those criticisms were all early in the season.

Presnapreads has been pretty critical of Case Keenum, in general. I've heard some of their people talk on the radio, too, and they're consistent in their criticism. I guess I would argue a couple of things.

First, 18 interceptable throws out of more than 330 is NOT 45% interceptable. That's an egregious exaggeration that should be retracted.

Beyond that, their highlights cherry-pick not only his worst play, most of which came early in the season, but also his completed throws that could have been better. That's not altogether inaccurate, but it's unbalanced. Case Keenum has made a lot of plays this year that are the exact opposite ... "wow" plays that keep drives alive. This is especially true the past two weeks. None of those plays are shown, so the totality of the article paints Case Keenum as a guy who's simply lucky to play with such a talented offense.

Also, I can pick apart some of their criticism. The two touchdowns they show to Stefon Diggs are a prime example. On the 59-yarder, they say Diggs has comfortably beaten his man, and Keenum's high throw to his back shoulder (which they say is not accurate) lets the defender back into the play. What they're failing to mention is that an "accurate" throw to the outside would have led Diggs straight out of bounds. First down, but not a big play. As it was, Diggs made the catch, stayed inbounds, and cruised to an easy TD. To me, that's the gunslinger mentality more than an inaccuracy issue. On the other play, I will argue all day against criticism that it was a bad throw. Diggs was not past his man, so Keenum put it on Diggs' back shoulder. That's an accurate throw that should be praised, not criticized.

My last point is WHEN these highlight were taken. They're all from at least 4 games ago. My belief is that Keenum is improving as a passer right before our eyes. He's doing it through film study, repetition, and the confidence he's gaining as the starter. His 65-yard TD to Thielen is a prime example. Not the toughest of throws, but before the snap, he diagnosed the blitz, changed Thielen's route, and got the ball where it needed to go. It was a great play on his part, but he gets no credit from Prensnap reads because it doesn't support their point. Not every quarterback would have made that play.

And this is just speculation on my part, but maybe Case would take fewer risks if he didn't have to constantly look over his shoulder. If you notice the past couple of weeks, we've seen Case throw the ball away more than he ever did before. I would argue that's because he doesn't feel as much pressure to make a big play every time. If you're constantly worried about being pulled after a 3-and-out, you're less likely to make the smart, safe play.

Let's be clear. I'm a fan of Teddy Bridgewater. I liked him early in his career, I was encouraged by the progress he was making before his injury, and I'm blown away by his comeback. Heck, If Case Keenum were playing like he was early in the season, I'd be calling for Teddy to start. But Keenum has taken this role and run with it. He's the first guy in the building and the last to leave. He's a leader. He gets the very most out of his abilities, and I would argue that he lifts the play of his teammates because of his leadership, despite his limited ability. Again, I was one of his harshest critics early on, but I admit that he's won me over to the point of being one of his biggest fans now. I mean, why is it with quarterbacks, we say, "We know who he is?" without allowing them the chance to improve? What if we would have said that about Adam Thielen? If Adam can work to make himself into a great player, why can't Case?

As long as Case Keenum keeps winning, I'm supporting him 100% as the starter.

Thanks for listening. Hope my comments were as measured as yours were.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by Cliff » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:12 am

Case has some accuracy issues, I can agree with that. No QB is perfect though and despite those "could have been" intercepted passes his TD/INT ratio is fine by me. Plus, are we going back and looking at every INT that did get thrown to make sure it was his fault? No tipped balls? No bad routes?

Would Case do as well without the great receiving corps? Almost certainly not, but isn't that the case for most QBs? How does Matt Ryan look without Jones? What about any QB Jerry Rice or Randy Moss played for? The bottom line is that Case is putting the ball where his receivers can get it. I don't care that *if* the receivers were worse they might not catch the passes. They are good enough, the ball is where it needs to be to get caught, and as a result the offense looks better than it has in nearly a decade.

If the team loses with Case in the playoffs then so be it. Barring a complete melt down, Case has earned the 2017 Vikings being his.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:12 pm

Cliff wrote:Case has some accuracy issues, I can agree with that. No QB is perfect though and despite those "could have been" intercepted passes his TD/INT ratio is fine by me. Plus, are we going back and looking at every INT that did get thrown to make sure it was his fault? No tipped balls? No bad routes?

Would Case do as well without the great receiving corps? Almost certainly not, but isn't that the case for most QBs? How does Matt Ryan look without Jones? What about any QB Jerry Rice or Randy Moss played for? The bottom line is that Case is putting the ball where his receivers can get it. I don't care that *if* the receivers were worse they might not catch the passes. They are good enough, the ball is where it needs to be to get caught, and as a result the offense looks better than it has in nearly a decade.

If the team loses with Case in the playoffs then so be it. Barring a complete melt down, Case has earned the 2017 Vikings being his.
I listened to Mike Wobschall's Wobcast this morning on the way in to work. They had Pat Elflein as a guest, and his words were particularly important.

Elflein talked about Case Keenum, and he spoke a lot about the things we don't see on film. How he takes command of the huddle. How he never gets down. How he gets the best out of everybody. How he's always so well prepared. Call it "intangible." Call it "moxie." Call it what you will, but he's got something going on right now that makes him better than his talent. The biggest thing Elflein said was that everybody in that huddle would run through fire for the guy. Add THAT to a lot of talent around him, and you've got a championship formula.

Here's what else I'll say. If the guy suddenly reverts to turnover-prone Case Keenum from last year, I'll be at the front of the line calling for Teddy to replace him. This season is too special to be sentimental toward any particular player. And I DO think Teddy needs to play at some point, so that he can knock off some rust in the event Case gets injured in the playoffs. But as of right now, and assuming Case keeps playing the way he has been playing, he's the man as far as I'm concerned.

I won't buy his jersey just yet ... but if he wins us a Super Bowl, I'll buy two.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by Dmizzle0 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:31 pm

I mostly agree with everybody but we got to give credit to our improved OL.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:38 pm

Dmizzle0 wrote:I mostly agree with everybody but we got to give credit to our improved OL.
On Facebook someone posted a question of who should be rookie of the year for offense. Desaun Watson was on there... And a few others. But has any rookie been more valuable to their team than Pat Elflein?

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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Case Keenum today vs. Atlanta:

25-30 for 227 yards and 2 TDs, 0 INT.

120.4 QBR.

His QBR is now 98.4 for the season on 243-360 for 2,703, 16 TDs, 5 INT.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by soflavike » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:03 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Case Keenum today vs. Atlanta:

25-30 for 227 yards and 2 TDs, 0 INT.

120.4 QBR.

His QBR is now 98.4 for the season on 243-360 for 2,703, 16 TDs, 5 INT.
From a statistical perspective, you can’t question his accuracy or efficiency. Yes, sometimes he throws a bad ball, and sometimes he misses a read, and sometimes he doesn’t place the ball in just the right spot... but neither does any other top quarterback.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by mosscarter » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:04 pm

I really miss Bridgewater's consistent 200 yard or less throwing performances with an average of 1 TD a week (or less) as a career average. Can't want to get him back in the lineup. All you Teddy lovers will get what you want because we won't resign Sam or Case and take Teddy on the cheap (with that said, whatever we do pay him it is too much). I would offer Case a 3 or 4 year extension right now.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by halfgiz » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:17 pm

Adam Schefter
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Vikings’ QB Case Keenum went 18-of-18 on passes thrown between the painted field numbers Sunday, the most attempts without an incompletion since it was first tracked in 2006.


Good posts Kapp :rock:

Zimmer already named Keenum starter next week.
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Re: It's time to give Case Keenum his due

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:22 pm

halfgiz wrote:Adam Schefter
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Vikings’ QB Case Keenum went 18-of-18 on passes thrown between the painted field numbers Sunday, the most attempts without an incompletion since it was first tracked in 2006.


Good posts Kapp :rock:

Zimmer already named Keenum starter next week.
I continue to wonder why it's even a question.
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