Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

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Cliff
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Cliff » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:43 am

We saw in one game why Case treads the line between starter and backup. He can look great but boy when his play takes a turn it happens fast and it seems like he can't get out of the "funk".

I thought Murray looked good ... really for the first time I've noticed him run that well with any consistency.

I thought the defense did a pretty good job. Griffen was obviously missed but we still got some good pressure. My biggest problem was the calling towards the end of the game. About mid-way through the 3rd quarter it seemed like the defense went a bit soft and the offense went into a bit of a shell. It was way too early to take your foot off of the gas and it could have cost the game.

Still, it was a fun game to watch.
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Raptorman » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:44 am

Let's see.

Offense.

QB play. Seems to be doing Okay. Case isn't the greatest but he isn't giving away games. That's good. Most back up are not doing nearly as well as Case.
RB's. We seem to have a good group. No single one will carry the day. But it seems they each have a role to play and they know it. When one isn't doing well, the other seems to do just fine. 118 yards per game is 10th in the league. Acceptable.
WR's. Much better than most people outside the Vikings think. Between Diggs and Theilen, well they do okay. As to the others. When the first two are covered the rest seem to be doing okay. Even Treadwell has made some good catches.
O-line. These guys seem to be the antithesis of the O-line from last year. Plug and play is the new mantra. It's hard to tell when one guy is replaced this year.

Defense.

Front line. These guys are doing a great job. They may not all be getting sacks but sometimes pressure is just as important.
LB's. We seem to have a good group here. Although at time they suffer in pass coverage.
DB's. Seems like we hear about Waynes all the time. But that's because very few QB's throw at Rhodes. Wayne's looks like he is getting better each week. But that could just be me.
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by mansquatch » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:48 am

Great win, they beat a team that as others have said, is much better than their record. The Rams we play on Sunday are one of the darlings of the NFC and the Redskins beat them. We should feel good about this win, we outplayed them on their own turf.

On the Keenum thing: For me the devil is in the details and what I look at when I watch him play isn't just completions/incompletions, but also the quality of the throws. In many cases the quality of Keenum's throws isn't great. Compare to Sam where most often the throw is ahead of the WR or hitting him in stride where Keenum requires the WR to make a body movement or contort to get the ball which is slightly behind him. I get that he had 4 TDs and I'm glad he did. But the INTs he threw were criminally bad, rookie QB stuff. All that being said, Keenum has won 6 games for us and he is playing the best football of his career. He deserves credit for that. My fear is that should we get into January, especially late January, his play will go from being good to great to a weakness that could cost us a NFCCG win or worse another loss in the SB.

This last reason is seductive and makes me want Teddy to get his shot. However, it is hardly a slam dunk. How many starts are enough for Teddy to hit stride for a playoff push? Is 7 enough? Or 6 or 5? I don't know. I'm not sure if 7 is enough. Most NFL teams hit stride in NOV, ie weeks 9-12. In other words they've played 8 games +. Is Teddy going to be able to not just be competitive, but play with confidence heading into January? What happens to the confidence of the team? These are huge risks to take with a promising team in the midst of a very promising season.

And yet... If they don't could Keenum be the achilles heal in January?

Ugh...
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:10 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:I don't get the "true colors" thing for Case. He has 5 INTs all year, two on consecutive plays. He also had 4 TDs. I don't think the 4 TDs is his true colors, but neither are the two INTs.

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In the sense that his inaccuracies showed. He's an erratic thrower. Always has been. He's not a 4 TD a game guy. He played well in the first 3 quarters but look back. Thats not him. His true colors are his inaccuracies. And that's ultimately what I am worried about. He's thrown 5 picks in 4 games now. That is worrisome. The guy played great early I'll give him that but watching him for most of his career, he worries me. Like a lot. I mean he almost gave Washington a win yesterday just on two dumb throws alone. Not trying to take anything from the guy. He's just making me more and more nervous every week
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:21 am

I think we have to give Keenum credit, though.

Yes, there are inaccuracies. There were two confounding interceptions that made the Redskins game something other than a blowout. True, he has never performed at a consistently high level.

That being said, he is playing the best football of HIS career, and there's a reason for it. None other than Teddy Bridgewater himself says Keenum is the first player to arrive every day and the last to leave. He studies hard. He works hard. He's doing the things a starter needs to do to be successful in the NFL. He's having a career year because he's earning it. Interestingly enough, Keenum says that Bridgewater has been his biggest help as he prepares.

The real question is whether his ceiling is high enough. That's hard to know. What I saw against the Bucs, the second half of the Browns game, and the first three quarters of the Washington game tells me that his ceiling may actually be high enough to have sustained success. The problem is that he needs to bring that kind of play more often, rather than just showing glimpses of it. He needs to show the consistency in his play that he's been lacking.

I think realistically that Teddy's ceiling is higher. But it's impossible to know whether Teddy can play THIS SEASON better than Case has. If you play Teddy and he can't get in sync, how long do you stay with him? What does that do to the locker room? We still have a division to win, and we lost to one of the teams chasing us. It's just a tough call ... one I'm glad I don't have to make.
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Grashopa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Keenum says that Bridgewater has been his biggest help as he prepares.
The best way to learn is to teach. I am confident that Teddy is a master of this offense and is mentally and emotionally prepared to lead this team. I am concerned about him being able to physically perform at full speed and be in sync with the rest of the team at that speed. Not to mention whether his knee will hold up...

It was touched on earlier in this thread, but if Teddy is to be our QB in the playoffs, how soon to you want to get him in the game so he is "up to speed" by the end of the regular season? It would be good to see what they have in present Teddy sooner rather than later I would think. Also, I think he would benefit having a home crowd behind him. It will be interesting to see what Zimmer & Co. have planned and if their plan works out. After thinking about it, I am 100% for starting Teddy next Sunday. But if that doesnt happen I am also confident that at this point Keenum can continue to perform admirably and we would get similar production out of him as we would out of a cold Teddy. Unfortunate that it has to be a team that we are going to be battling for a seed at the end of the season.
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Norv Zimmer » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:02 pm

Grashopa wrote: The best way to learn is to teach. I am confident that Teddy is a master of this offense and is mentally and emotionally prepared to lead this team. I am concerned about him being able to physically perform at full speed and be in sync with the rest of the team at that speed. Not to mention whether his knee will hold up...

It was touched on earlier in this thread, but if Teddy is to be our QB in the playoffs, how soon to you want to get him in the game so he is "up to speed" by the end of the regular season? It would be good to see what they have in present Teddy sooner rather than later I would think. Also, I think he would benefit having a home crowd behind him. It will be interesting to see what Zimmer & Co. have planned and if their plan works out. After thinking about it, I am 100% for starting Teddy next Sunday. But if that doesnt happen I am also confident that at this point Keenum can continue to perform admirably and we would get similar production out of him as we would out of a cold Teddy. Unfortunate that it has to be a team that we are going to be battling for a seed at the end of the season.

Teddy has never played in this offense. Shurmur was never the OC when Teddy played.

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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:23 pm

What about putting teddy in for a drive or two during a game?

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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Grashopa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:26 pm

Norv Zimmer wrote:Teddy has never played in this offense. Shurmur was never the OC when Teddy played.
I agree, But he has been studying this offense for over a year and he seems quite in tune with it to the point that he is able to help Keenum. I was saying that Teddy should be as mentally prepared as he could possibly be to return. The question is whether or not he can execute the offense physically at full game speed.
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by akvikingsfan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:44 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:What about putting teddy in for a drive or two during a game?

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I thought thats what they were going to do yesterday at the end of the game. Teddy was on the sideline with his helmet on warming up (per the announcers) but then Case had the two interceptions and I'm guessing that plan changed.

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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:50 pm

Norv Zimmer wrote:
Teddy has never played in this offense. Shurmur was never the OC when Teddy played.
As much time as Teddy has spent in the building at at Vikings' practices, I doubt it matters. I can just about guarantee you that he knows the terminology, the protections, the route trees and options, the reads ... everything ... just about as well as if he'd been playing himself.

The issue isn't going to be understanding what to do. It's going to be physical rust, and developing timing with his receivers. Those are things he'd have to overcome no matter who was the offensive coordinator.

I've said it a dozen times now. I'm perfectly fine with Teddy being handed the reins today. He's the guy they drafted, and he's the guy beyond 2017. That being said, I simply don't think Case Keenum has done anything to LOSE the job. He's performing at a top-15 QB level for the season. His 16-game pace is for more than 4,000 yards, 25 TDs and 11 ints, which is the best anybody's done since Favre. Furthermore, he's only been sacked 5 times. He's at league average for TD%, and above average in every other statistic, including yards per attempt.

If the Vikings turn to Teddy, I'll be cheering my head off. He's become one of the biggest legends in Minnesota Vikings history with the way he's come back, and I find it impossible not to root for him. And I'd be over the moon if he could become the kind of QB we all have hoped for. But if they choose to stay with Keenum for now, I could certainly understand it, and I'll pull just as hard for him as I would for Teddy. Case has earned our respect.
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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by The-Purple-Reign » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:53 pm

the Case/teddy situation is tough, but it can't be denied that case and the rest of the offense hasn't just been winning, they've been gelling in spirit. That dynamic goes 5 straight wins deep. This is a team that works together as a whole, and Case is well established as a piece of that whole with regards to team spirit. That dynamic accounts for something. And those two interceptions, which sucked, wouldn't have mattered as much if the D held the skins to less than 30. 38 points under case should have created a buffer for a couple bad plays like that if the D didn't allow so many points. Our D is better than that, and 38 (!!) points under case should have been enough to render those interception less bad than they were. If the D plays like we know they can, 38 points and a couple interceptions will be enough to win more games comfortably.

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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by Dmizzle0 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:14 pm

I still have faith in Keenum. The match-up against the Rams will be a real test for the Vikings, offense and defense.

To me it seems like Keenum's confidence is his biggest weakness right now.

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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by The-Purple-Reign » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:22 pm

"To me it seems like Keenum's confidence is his biggest weakness right now."

You could vary well be right, but it could also be his strength. But to make an argument for your point, I'd say cutting down a bit of his weakness (potential over confidence) could make him fight harder to keep putting out the best football he's played. If he knows he really has to fight for his position, it might lead him to keep pushing harder and harder like he has been.

His confidence could go either way. But I do understand reasons for your concern.

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Re: Week 10 Reaction Thread: Vikings-Redskins

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:03 pm

The-Purple-Reign wrote:the Case/teddy situation is tough, but it can't be denied that case and the rest of the offense hasn't just been winning, they've been gelling in spirit. That dynamic goes 5 straight wins deep. This is a team that works together as a whole, and Case is well established as a piece of that whole with regards to team spirit. That dynamic accounts for something. And those two interceptions, which sucked, wouldn't have mattered as much if the D held the skins to less than 30. 38 points under case should have created a buffer for a couple bad plays like that if the D didn't allow so many points. Our D is better than that, and 38 (!!) points under case should have been enough to render those interception less bad than they were. If the D plays like we know they can, 38 points and a couple interceptions will be enough to win more games comfortably.
You can't put the entire 30 on the defense. At the very least, 7 points were directly related to Keenum's turnovers.
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