Not elite

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PurpleMustReign
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Re: Not elite

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:36 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Let's take a look at some of the great defenses in NFL history
• In 2000, the Ravens gave up 36 to Jacksonville.
• In 1985, the Bears gave up 38 to the Dolphins.
• In 1976, the Pittsburgh Steelers gave up 30 to the Patriots.
• In 1971, our own Minnesota Vikings, one of the truly great defenses of all time (only 9.9 ppg allowed), gave up 30 to the 6-8 San Diego Chargers.

It is not unprecedented for a great defense to have a bad day.

And here's something of note. Of all the games listed above, only one of them resulted in a win for the defense that had a bad day. We won against Washington. I'm good with that.

(Fun note that I didn't know: The '71 Vikings had 57 takeaways in 14 games ... 27 interceptions and 30 fumbles recovered. Unbelievable!)
That last statement is insane.

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John_Viveiros
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Re: Not elite

Post by John_Viveiros » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:16 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Let's take a look at some of the great defenses in NFL history
• In 2000, the Ravens gave up 36 to Jacksonville.
• In 1985, the Bears gave up 38 to the Dolphins.
• In 1976, the Pittsburgh Steelers gave up 30 to the Patriots.
• In 1971, our own Minnesota Vikings, one of the truly great defenses of all time (only 9.9 ppg allowed), gave up 30 to the 6-8 San Diego Chargers.

It is not unprecedented for a great defense to have a bad day.

And here's something of note. Of all the games listed above, only one of them resulted in a win for the defense that had a bad day. We won against Washington. I'm good with that.
My favorite is one of the dominant teams in NFL history - the 49ers. In their last Superbowl winning season, they lost a mid-season game to the Eagles by a score of 40-8. And then they righted the ship and won the Lombardi trophy.

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Re: Not elite

Post by mansquatch » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Don't make me salivate before Thanksgiving.

I'm getting really close to full homer. This last game was the prove it game for me. There are still questions, but they won a big game on the road. This could be the year. The 2000 Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. It could happen! Now they'll probably lay an egg on Sunday and it will be all my fault.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi

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DK Sweets
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Re: Not elite

Post by DK Sweets » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:36 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Let's take a look at some of the great defenses in NFL history
• In 2000, the Ravens gave up 36 to Jacksonville.
• In 1985, the Bears gave up 38 to the Dolphins.
• In 1976, the Pittsburgh Steelers gave up 30 to the Patriots.
• In 1971, our own Minnesota Vikings, one of the truly great defenses of all time (only 9.9 ppg allowed), gave up 30 to the 6-8 San Diego Chargers.

It is not unprecedented for a great defense to have a bad day.

And here's something of note. Of all the games listed above, only one of them resulted in a win for the defense that had a bad day. We won against Washington. I'm good with that.

(Fun note that I didn't know: The '71 Vikings had 57 takeaways in 14 games ... 27 interceptions and 30 fumbles recovered. Unbelievable!)
4 takeaways PER GAME?? Holy Odin.

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Not elite

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:07 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Let's take a look at some of the great defenses in NFL history
• In 2000, the Ravens gave up 36 to Jacksonville.
• In 1985, the Bears gave up 38 to the Dolphins.
• In 1976, the Pittsburgh Steelers gave up 30 to the Patriots.
• In 1971, our own Minnesota Vikings, one of the truly great defenses of all time (only 9.9 ppg allowed), gave up 30 to the 6-8 San Diego Chargers.

It is not unprecedented for a great defense to have a bad day.

And here's something of note. Of all the games listed above, only one of them resulted in a win for the defense that had a bad day. We won against Washington. I'm good with that.

(Fun note that I didn't know: The '71 Vikings had 57 takeaways in 14 games ... 27 interceptions and 30 fumbles recovered. Unbelievable!)
Exactly. Which would make the OP saying this false:
VikingPaul73 wrote:Elite Defenses just don't have games like this.
What was posted above proves that they do. There isnt much of a measure for elite defenses and great defense to be honest
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DK Sweets
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Re: Not elite

Post by DK Sweets » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:24 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Exactly. Which would make the OP saying this false:
What was posted above proves that they do. There isnt much of a measure for elite defenses and great defense to be honest
Good point, Mike. It's not easy to separate "really good", "great", and "elite". It will be a lot easier to decide after the season ends and we know how they react when the moments are the biggest!

I think we've made some good points, and I think VikingPaul73 probably understand that now without any of us piling on after we've already pulled out the statistics :) Nobody likes people harping on their mistakes, or at least, I know I wouldn't.

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Cliff
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Re: Not elite

Post by Cliff » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:25 pm

This is the 'true #1 WR' conversation all over again lol
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Re: Not elite

Post by mansquatch » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:11 pm

Cliff wrote:This is the 'true #1 WR' conversation all over again lol
First off, don't remind me. UGH! Secondly, I'd like to think this particular topic has been taken behind the woodshed.

This defense held Big Ben to 87 yards of passing in a single half while getting zero help from it's offense. I'd call that elite.

For me it is tough to measure a defense in today's NFL using just stats. I used to swear by PA, but even that measure is dubious since the play of the offense can have baring on it. I remember this season after the game vs. NO that PFF was ripping Trae Waynes for allowing all these completions, yet most of them were in the 4Q when the defense was running cover 2 and wanted the Saints to complete passes in the middle of the field to run the clock. We had a multi-score lead thanks to our offense. The Saints also scored a meaningless TD. Those stats count against season totals, but are they are defense being beaten? I hardly think so.

I've found myself looking more and more at quality of opposition and how the team performed against the best teams. Ultimately in the playoffs, this is what matters. Can you beat another elite team when all the marbles are on the line? (This is also why Tom Brady is the GOAT QB. He performs when it matters most.)
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi

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