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 Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater 
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Post Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
HASAN: Start Teddy Bridgewater

Good article.

I'd start him ASAP. Once in there, stay committed no matter what (unless he can't physically do his job).


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“It typically takes a quarterback time to regain confidence in a surgically repaired knee,” he argued. “It took Sam Bradford about 10 weeks to fully recover from his second ACL tear; he was a bad quarterback during that stage but thrived over the second half of that season.

“That’s the quandary with Bridgewater. There’s a strong chance he’s worse than Keenum in the short term but he needs to play if he’s going to be valuable in the long term. In the long term you know you’re not winning a Super Bowl with Keenum. You’re probably not with Bridgewater this year either but he offers you a better chance”

Bradford seems to be the worst-case scenario. Joe Flacco immediately returned to form in 2016 from his 2015 ACL tear, a time lag of 295 days between injury and first start.

Donovan McNabb played at a Pro Bowl level before his ACL tear in 2006 and though he didn’t make a Pro Bowl again until 2009, played much like his older self a few weeks into the 2007 season, with a standout performance in Week 3 — a perfect passer rating on 26 attempts against the Detroit Lions. It took 309 days between injury and a high-level performance for McNabb.

Carson Palmer suffered the first of two ACL tears at a similar time, in January of 2006. A Pro Bowl year for the former Cincinnati Bengal, Palmer returned to the Pro Bowl the next year in a season where it didn’t take long to put together a classic performance. In Week 3, he threw four touchdown passes and two interceptions on 26 passes to beat the Steelers with a 98.2 passer rating.

That performance was only 206 days removed from his initial injury. That might even be too conservative, as Palmer had a lights-out preseason performance that year, throwing for three touchdowns on only 14 passes against the Green Bay Packers in late August — a month before his Steelers performance.

Later in his career, Palmer re-tore his ACL with the Arizona Cardinals in 2014, a year that he was on track for another Pro Bowl appearance. Instead, he had to settle for that appearance after the 2015 season, where he led the league in yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt and ESPN total QBR. He dominated early on, with three touchdowns and no interceptions on 32 attempts against the New Orleans Saints for a passer rating of 122.8.

The lag between injury and highlight performance was 309 days in that case.


Quote:
There’s an argument that Bridgewater didn’t throw many touchdowns in his 2015 season, and therefore he’s not particularly special, but that’s not a particularly complete argument; Keenum has thrown a touchdown on 3.0 percent of his passes, while Bridgewater threw a touchdown on 3.3 percent of his.

In fact, Bridgewater threw with a higher yards per attempt in 2015 than Keenum has this year, and with higher adjusted yards per attempt.

All of this is with a significantly worse offensive line — one that ranked dead last in advanced pass protection statistics, standard pass protection statistics and contemporary film-oriented lists — and a receiving corps that cycled through Mike Wallace and Charles Johnson before settling on a less-developed Thielen.

One interesting way to evaluate quarterbacks that strips away some of the problems that come with using touchdowns and interceptions as well as the issues that come with poor playcalling is evaluating performance on third-and-long. Because offenses tend not to attempt to convert third-and-13 or longer, it’s most appropriate to look at passes thrown on third down with between seven and 12 yards to go.

Bridgewater converted those third downs at a 38.1 percent clip, good for ninth-best in the NFL. Bradford, with a somehow even worse offensive line but marginally better weapons, converted third-and-long at a 26.9 percent clip, 27th in the NFL. Keenum, in a much friendlier environment, converted 28 percent of third-and-long plays into a first down, ranking 24th.

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Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
808vikingsfan wrote:
HASAN: Start Teddy Bridgewater

Good article.

I'd start him ASAP. Once in there, stay committed no matter what (unless he can't physically do his job).


Quote:
“It typically takes a quarterback time to regain confidence in a surgically repaired knee,” he argued. “It took Sam Bradford about 10 weeks to fully recover from his second ACL tear; he was a bad quarterback during that stage but thrived over the second half of that season.

“That’s the quandary with Bridgewater. There’s a strong chance he’s worse than Keenum in the short term but he needs to play if he’s going to be valuable in the long term. In the long term you know you’re not winning a Super Bowl with Keenum. You’re probably not with Bridgewater this year either but he offers you a better chance”

Bradford seems to be the worst-case scenario. Joe Flacco immediately returned to form in 2016 from his 2015 ACL tear, a time lag of 295 days between injury and first start.

Donovan McNabb played at a Pro Bowl level before his ACL tear in 2006 and though he didn’t make a Pro Bowl again until 2009, played much like his older self a few weeks into the 2007 season, with a standout performance in Week 3 — a perfect passer rating on 26 attempts against the Detroit Lions. It took 309 days between injury and a high-level performance for McNabb.

Carson Palmer suffered the first of two ACL tears at a similar time, in January of 2006. A Pro Bowl year for the former Cincinnati Bengal, Palmer returned to the Pro Bowl the next year in a season where it didn’t take long to put together a classic performance. In Week 3, he threw four touchdown passes and two interceptions on 26 passes to beat the Steelers with a 98.2 passer rating.

That performance was only 206 days removed from his initial injury. That might even be too conservative, as Palmer had a lights-out preseason performance that year, throwing for three touchdowns on only 14 passes against the Green Bay Packers in late August — a month before his Steelers performance.

Later in his career, Palmer re-tore his ACL with the Arizona Cardinals in 2014, a year that he was on track for another Pro Bowl appearance. Instead, he had to settle for that appearance after the 2015 season, where he led the league in yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt and ESPN total QBR. He dominated early on, with three touchdowns and no interceptions on 32 attempts against the New Orleans Saints for a passer rating of 122.8.

The lag between injury and highlight performance was 309 days in that case.


Quote:
There’s an argument that Bridgewater didn’t throw many touchdowns in his 2015 season, and therefore he’s not particularly special, but that’s not a particularly complete argument; Keenum has thrown a touchdown on 3.0 percent of his passes, while Bridgewater threw a touchdown on 3.3 percent of his.

In fact, Bridgewater threw with a higher yards per attempt in 2015 than Keenum has this year, and with higher adjusted yards per attempt.

All of this is with a significantly worse offensive line — one that ranked dead last in advanced pass protection statistics, standard pass protection statistics and contemporary film-oriented lists — and a receiving corps that cycled through Mike Wallace and Charles Johnson before settling on a less-developed Thielen.

One interesting way to evaluate quarterbacks that strips away some of the problems that come with using touchdowns and interceptions as well as the issues that come with poor playcalling is evaluating performance on third-and-long. Because offenses tend not to attempt to convert third-and-13 or longer, it’s most appropriate to look at passes thrown on third down with between seven and 12 yards to go.

Bridgewater converted those third downs at a 38.1 percent clip, good for ninth-best in the NFL. Bradford, with a somehow even worse offensive line but marginally better weapons, converted third-and-long at a 26.9 percent clip, 27th in the NFL. Keenum, in a much friendlier environment, converted 28 percent of third-and-long plays into a first down, ranking 24th.
How do you make me miss Teddy more on the day he comes back? What kind of wizardry...?


Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
I've said we should start him for a while now. We always have Keenum as insurance. We HAVE to remember, if Keenum craps the bed in the last few weeks or craps the bed in the playoffs and we are forced to put Teddy in with no game action, that sets Teddy up for failure. Start the guy. If he plays like Sam did when he wasnt ready vs Chicago, pull him. But we HAVE to see what we have in him. NOW and for the FUTURE. Absolute perfect scenario for him is for him to start next week. It's our only home game for a long stretch. With the crowd behind him and all, the stadium would be going insane for him and really boost his confidence. We automatically gain a giant amount of momentum befofre the game starts

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
I still maintain that Teddy will start next week. Zimmer is smart. He knows the benefits of playing Teddy. But he also knows that by waiting for a home game for the first start it will improve his chances of success. Playing his first game back at The Bank will be vastly different than playing on the road. If there were bets for when his first start would be, I'd drop $1,000 on the Rams game.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I've said we should start him for a while now. We always have Keenum as insurance. We HAVE to remember, if Keenum craps the bed in the last few weeks or craps the bed in the playoffs and we are forced to put Teddy in with no game action, that sets Teddy up for failure. Start the guy. If he plays like Sam did when he wasnt ready vs Chicago, pull him. But we HAVE to see what we have in him. NOW and for the FUTURE. Absolute perfect scenario for him is for him to start next week. It's our only home game for a long stretch. With the crowd behind him and all, the stadium would be going insane for him and really boost his confidence. We automatically gain a giant amount of momentum befofre the game starts
What If Teddy craps the bed? Is that ok?

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
I'm 42 years old, I've been following the Vikings fairly regularly since I was 17 years old. I know the history of this organization and and fan base, how easily they both fall for fools gold, i.e Hershel Walker Trade. In a 16 game season, Wins are hard to come by, especially for this organization. I read some of the comments on here about Keenum's Wins versus Bridgewater's potential. And I go, here we go again.

Anyway, I agree with you guys I do think they will start Bridgewater soon. And if I was Keenum or his agent, I would request an immediate buy out. There are plenty of NFL teams willing to let him finish the season as their starter. I mean how much more disrespect can a guy take?


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Case might be upset because he has done everything we asked of him and then some but that would make him look downright foolish. All he has to do is accept his role for a few more games and hes a free agent. Look at what Mike Glennon got paid for being a quality backup that projected as a potential starter. Case has shown way more than Glennon had prior to last offseason. Still doubt he gets paid anywhere near as much because the Bears are idiots but hes due a nice payday regardless. No point pouting, forcing a move and risk struggling elsewhere.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
He's a backup that has thrown INTs in his last 3 games. Also, when he signed here, he had to know the situation. Teddy was a mainstay here. He had to know that there was a potential that Teddy would be back. He was always supposed to be #2.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
petev_sj wrote:
I'm 42 years old, I've been following the Vikings fairly regularly since I was 17 years old. I know the history of this organization and and fan base, how easily they both fall for fools gold, i.e Hershel Walker Trade. In a 16 game season, Wins are hard to come by, especially for this organization. I read some of the comments on here about Keenum's Wins versus Bridgewater's potential. And I go, here we go again.

Anyway, I agree with you guys I do think they will start Bridgewater soon. And if I was Keenum or his agent, I would request an immediate buy out. There are plenty of NFL teams willing to let him finish the season as their starter. I mean how much more disrespect can a guy take?


Did that ever happen? A backup QB on a division leader wanting to get out mid season so he can start on a crappy team somewhere else? Sounds pretty selfish. Case seems like the ultimate team guy.

Unless he's a great liar, Case loves being on this team. He understands his role completely. He's the starter now. Even if the Vikings decide to start Teddy, Case is just a play away from being QB1.

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Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:14 pm
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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Cris Carter's take on Bridgewater. At the 5:12 mark

https://youtu.be/UPOLpOVD2AU?t=312

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Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

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It's not bad but, he has been careless with the ball and inaccurate. It's easy to lose sight of that in wins but when it comes to playing tough teams, we may not be able to overcome these types of mistakes.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I've said we should start him for a while now. We always have Keenum as insurance. We HAVE to remember, if Keenum craps the bed in the last few weeks or craps the bed in the playoffs and we are forced to put Teddy in with no game action, that sets Teddy up for failure. Start the guy. If he plays like Sam did when he wasnt ready vs Chicago, pull him. But we HAVE to see what we have in him. NOW and for the FUTURE. Absolute perfect scenario for him is for him to start next week. It's our only home game for a long stretch. With the crowd behind him and all, the stadium would be going insane for him and really boost his confidence. We automatically gain a giant amount of momentum befofre the game starts

You and I have gone round and round on this topic, but we're in agreement here.

Starting Teddy at home would be the far-and-away best idea. Our fans would be over the moon, the players would run through fire, and the environment would be better for the entire offense (less crowd noise on offense means fewer false starts, better cadence between Teddy and O-line).

Like you said, if Teddy craps the bed, pull him. But I'm hoping for a start against the Rams.

Even better, we blow out Washington, get Teddy in the game late, and then start him against the Rams.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

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Yes, lets compare Case to Brady, lol.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

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Yes, lets compare Case to Brady, lol.
I just did. Duh.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I've said we should start him for a while now. We always have Keenum as insurance. We HAVE to remember, if Keenum craps the bed in the last few weeks or craps the bed in the playoffs and we are forced to put Teddy in with no game action, that sets Teddy up for failure. Start the guy. If he plays like Sam did when he wasnt ready vs Chicago, pull him. But we HAVE to see what we have in him. NOW and for the FUTURE. Absolute perfect scenario for him is for him to start next week. It's our only home game for a long stretch. With the crowd behind him and all, the stadium would be going insane for him and really boost his confidence. We automatically gain a giant amount of momentum befofre the game starts
What If Teddy craps the bed? Is that ok?

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Then you go back to Keenum. We have to see what we have in Teddy. We cant just go into playoffs sitting a better QB just because we are too scared to start him

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

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It's not "bad" but it's worrisome. His play has fell off. That's pretty obvious. Went from turning the ball over zero times to dropping 3 picks recently. He has been very erratic as well. Not sure how fans arent seeing that.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/ ... d-vikings/

Stats don't tell the whole story, but these are some interesting stat's.


Start him ASAP. Its a no brainer. Keenum is not the future. Rams game makes perfect sense. If Keenum struggles at all vs. WA, Teddy will take over. They know what they have in both of these guys, its not like these coaches are new to football. If the fans can see the glaring differences, surely the coaches are on top of it.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Another article advocating for his start. A little unfair/harsh to Case and Sam though.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... s.amp.html

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Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
Don't fix what isn't broken - Keenum should remain the starter.


Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:10 pm
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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
I'll qualify my last post.

I believe the Vikes activated Bridgewater because their hand was forced with Bradford going on IR. They know Teddy is not ready to start, but at the same time, he's a better reserve option at this point than anyone else available to them. He could technically play and may even have to play, but the coaches would prefer he not unless they have no other choice.

I would love to be wrong on the above, but throwing Teddy into the mix if he's not ready, no matter how much fan support he gets or how hyped he is, would be a bigger disaster than any amount of inaccurate throws Keenum could conjure up for the rest of this season.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
It feels like the question has gone from "Which QB should start?" to "How healthy do you think Teddy is?"

If you can answer that second question, I can pretty well determine what your answer to the first question is.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

I had an opinion of Daunte Culpepper that diverged from nearly everyone else's, because he was a bit of a turnover machine with us. At one time, I calculated that he was worth about one and a half turnovers per game (lots of lost fumbles). That was just too much.

Turning the ball over once per game is probably average to good. Matt Stafford averaged a bit above a turnover per game in his first few years, and a bit under since then, as an example.

Case didn't have any turnovers in the first few games, so he's actually playing worse now that we're consistently winning :lol: . So we don't know if it's just a statistical wiggle, or if teams are getting enough tape on him to shut him down a bit. I read an article that said that was likely to happen, FWIW. You can argue that he's played some tough defenses, even if they weren't attached to good offensive teams (Browns, Bears, Lions, Steelers, Ravens - all to some degree).


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
YikesVikes wrote:
He's a backup that has thrown INTs in his last 3 games. Also, when he signed here, he had to know the situation. Teddy was a mainstay here. He had to know that there was a potential that Teddy would be back. He was always supposed to be #2.


3 int's, 2 were tipped passes....really!!
Case is a backup? He has started every game but one.

I think the 2nd half it will be a 2 QB effort. Not necessary any order....Team effort.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
DK Sweets wrote:
It feels like the question has gone from "Which QB should start?" to "How healthy do you think Teddy is?"

If you can answer that second question, I can pretty well determine what your answer to the first question is.



I agree with your assessment of the mood. I think there are a lot of other issues with regards to Teddy fitting into the current offense, not the least of which are his likely lack of rapport with Adam Thielen (in the sense he's never thrown to him in a game before) and lack of any time playing with the current OC.

I think on that football stuff we have to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt. They got SB up to speed last year in 3 weeks. This is a rare instance where we can say "they've done it before." I just hope they are conservative on this and do not produce another "Josh Freeman Game". They came close in starting SB on MNF @ Soldier Field a few weeks ago, but at least they had the good sense to pull him. Let us hope they do not go down that road with TB.

I'm taking what I think is a conservative view on this: Until they are sure TB is at 95% of Keenum, they probably need to play Keenum. They'll run risk of losing the locker room and potentially dropping some winnable games during a tough stretch of the schedule if they start TB too soon. They've got a good thing going right now momentum/ confidence wise and that should not be discarded carelessly just because they believe TB has a higher ceiling than Keenum. They need to keep playing at a high level and continuing to win. After the injuries to SEA last night we have the undisputed best defense in the NFL. It's time to capitalize.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
John_Viveiros wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Is three INTs in three games bad? Why do people keep bring that up? Hell even Tom Brady has had games where he threw three INTs.

I had an opinion of Daunte Culpepper that diverged from nearly everyone else's, because he was a bit of a turnover machine with us. At one time, I calculated that he was worth about one and a half turnovers per game (lots of lost fumbles). That was just too much.

Turning the ball over once per game is probably average to good. Matt Stafford averaged a bit above a turnover per game in his first few years, and a bit under since then, as an example.

Case didn't have any turnovers in the first few games, so he's actually playing worse now that we're consistently winning [emoji38] . So we don't know if it's just a statistical wiggle, or if teams are getting enough tape on him to shut him down a bit. I read an article that said that was likely to happen, FWIW. You can argue that he's played some tough defenses, even if they weren't attached to good offensive teams (Browns, Bears, Lions, Steelers, Ravens - all to some degree).
I had the same feelings on Culpepper. He had an incredible cannon for an arm and was fairly accurate, but he threw INTs and fumbled at the worst possible times every game.

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
mansquatch wrote:
I agree with your assessment of the mood. I think there are a lot of other issues with regards to Teddy fitting into the current offense, not the least of which are his likely lack of rapport with Adam Thielen (in the sense he's never thrown to him in a game before) and lack of any time playing with the current OC.

I have a really strong memory of Teddy throwing a long TD pass to Thielen from right to left along the far sidelines, and looking back at the game logs, it must have been the Chicago game in 2014 - last game of the season.

I just looked for it, and here are the highlights: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201412280 ... &tab=recap
It looks like a pretty good rapport there!


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
If bridgewater is the future the future is looking dim. There is no reason case should be benched. But if he is I will look forward to Teddy’s 190 yard passing games with 1 td if we are lucky. That’s probably about his average over two years his stats are easily bottom 5 starters in the league.


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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
mosscarter wrote:
If bridgewater is the future the future is looking dim. There is no reason case should be benched. But if he is I will look forward to Teddy’s 190 yard passing games with 1 td if we are lucky. That’s probably about his average over two years his stats are easily bottom 5 starters in the league.


Cool story, bro. Does it matter Bridgewater had the fewest attempts in 2015, effectively attempting half a season's worth of passes than the median passers that year? Not to mention playing behind one of the worst pass-blocking lines in the last decade throwing to Charles Johnson and Mike Wallace? Probably doesn't fit your narrative, I get it. What were Case's stats in week 5?

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Post Re: Hasan: Start Teddy Bridgewater
No because the people who don't like Teddy Bridgewater will look for anything they can to make him look bad they don't care that the offense of line was horrible or that we ran it to Adrian Peterson two out of three Downs or that we didn't have receivers they only want to say what makes them sound right I don't care what they say Teddy Bridgewater is a winner and with a way better offense of line and way better wide receivers more balanced running backs and an extra year in the league watching game tape and learning how it's done without being on the field Teddy will be a better quarterback and he already has the it Factor. Teddy Bridgewater can bring us to the Super Bowl he can win a game in the playoffs when we need them to. Case won't lose Us games hopefully, but he isn't going to come through in the clutch that I see


Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:52 pm
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