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As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.

Grashopa wrote:As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.

Thanks. I'm not saying McKinnon should be getting all the carries. That's not realistic. There will always be a split. He's not AD. But given their performance so far, I have no idea why you'd favor carries to the guy getting half the yards per attempt. 60-70% McKinnon seems reasonable. He's getting much better production.

Honestly, I think Murray is still a little hobbled.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: "Part midget" or not, Jet has badly outplayed Murray. That's by any metric you want to use, statistical or observational.

You say giving Murray single-digit carries sets him up for failure. Giving him 20 carries would set the VIKINGS up for failure. I'll take the former.

I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

dead_poet wrote:Honestly, I think Murray is still a little hobbled.

He looked good on his 2 decent runs on Sunday. He runs straight forward and seems to go down upon first significant contact. I cant argue against that. Hard to say if it is because he is still hurt or if he is just hesitant to push himself out of fear of being re-injured. He seemed faster, more powerful and more dynamic last season. I would still like to see how he fares as the season goes on.

Grashopa wrote:As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it. No different then when people say Treadwell is a bust when he's gotten very little opportunity to perform. He gets an opportunity last week and look what happens. Running Murray all the time on first downs and pulling him after that does nothing.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it. No different then when people say Treadwell is a bust when he's gotten very little opportunity to perform. He gets an opportunity last week and look what happens. Running Murray all the time on first downs and pulling him after that does nothing.

Latavius Murray carries vs. GB:

1st down: 10 carries
2nd down: 5 carries
3rd down: 0
Total: 15 carries/28 yards, 1.9 YPC; 1 reception, 9 yards

Jet McKinnon rushes vs. GB

1st down: 11 carries
2nd down: 3 carries
3rd down: 2 carries
Total: 16 carries/69 yards, 1 TD, 4.3 YPC; 5 receptions, 30 yards, 1 TD

dead_poet wrote: Latavius Murray carries vs. GB:

1st down: 10 carries
2nd down: 5 carries
3rd down: 0
Total: 15 carries/28 yards, 1.9 YPC; 1 reception, 9 yards

Jet McKinnon rushes vs. GB

1st down: 11 carries
2nd down: 3 carries
3rd down: 2 carries
Total: 16 carries/69 yards, 1 TD, 4.3 YPC; 5 receptions, 30 yards, 1 TD

Didnt realize the first down carries were that close. Either way, what I said in another post above is how many of those first down runs were guys literally already in the backfield before the handoff was given. There was no avoiding that for Murray. He had 5 carries that went for negative yardage. Not because he didnt hit a hole but that he was already tackled in the backfield the second he got the ball. Which forces us into a passing situation and in turn, Murray usually comes off.

dead_poet wrote:Just going by the eye test of what I've seen of his [Hundley's] play. I'd rather have him than anyone on the Browns roster.

I'd take Myles Garrett! But you were almost certainly talking QB. Frankly, Cleveland is so unwatchable that I'll just have to give you that one by default.

Didnt realize Murray was even worse then I thought. 1.9 YPC is just friggin terrible.

McKinnon isnt great, but he is doing good, and single handed has lead our rushing attack. And hes great catching the ball and picking up blitzes. Im glad I wasnt the one to pay Murray 5 million to play like he has. I like results, not excuses.

No excuses there. Just stating the facts.....

Murray suffered from RB by committee in Oakland and it was even worse. I was moderately happy when he was picked up to be the feature back (pre-draft) as I felt he would have been more productive in Oakland had he not had to split carries with 2 other backs.

I'm just really surprised at how a big guy can go down so easily. How many broken tackles does he have this year? Maybe it's the ankle but if you're slow, and lets face it Murray doesn't have speed, you're going to have to pick up yards by either being elusive or using power.

Some of it might be being spoiled with Cook as he is so much more explosive and also O-line issues. But on the whole, I don't think he's yet to live up to expectations. Hopefully he can get healthy and start contributing more.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

Why?

Because he's a "volume guy"? As with all professional sports, if you produce, you play. Murray isn't. It's remarkably simple, at least to me. Exactly what point am I missing here?

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Jerick McKinnon should carry the ball 25 times a game. Heck, I don't want McKinnon or ANY of the current Vikings backs carrying the ball 25 times. I simply said McKinnon is outplaying Murray, which he is, and it's not close.

I think they make a solid tandum.... Murray and McKinnon. The are both 3 down backs. McKinnon fits the outside zone Scheme better than Murray no doubt. He's a different kind of runner. Murray is best in the power man scheme, like where he came from in Oakland. Vikings run some of it too, but it isn't the O lines strength. Our O line is set up with athletic guys ready to get on the move and block area's on the outside and not as much for one on one power blocking. I suspect this is some of the reason why Murray isn't having the success we'd hope he would have. As the season goes on I would expect we see Murray have some decent games. A lot of it will depend on Defensive personal and Scheme. Both of them staying healthy and fresh is the big thing. I hope the keep sharing the load and even start giving Ham some work.

Do you guys realize how good the defense looks after 6 weeks? They gave up only one TD in four of the six games this season (Saints, Lions, Bears, and Packers) and two TD's in the other games (and one special teams TD vs the Bears). And in those games where they gave up only one TD, there were... extenuating circumstances in most cases.

The Saints finally scored a TD against our prevent defense with under two minutes left in the game, down by three scores.
The Lions' scoring "drive" was all of 29 yards, after Dalvin Cook's injury and fumble.
The Packers' scoring "drive" was all of 18 yards, after McKinnon's fumble.

In other words, the Vikings have allowed only five long drives (that they didn't start already in FG territory) for TD's, when the game was still in doubt, in all six games this season. The year before Zimmer got here, we gave up 30 or more points in eight games!

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Why?

Because he's a "volume guy"? As with all professional sports, if you produce, you play. Murray isn't. It's remarkably simple, at least to me. Exactly what point am I missing here?

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Jerick McKinnon should carry the ball 25 times a game. Heck, I don't want McKinnon or ANY of the current Vikings backs carrying the ball 25 times. I simply said McKinnon is outplaying Murray, which he is, and it's not close.

You totally are missing his point.

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