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 Week 6 reaction thread 
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Grashopa wrote:
As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.


Thanks. I'm not saying McKinnon should be getting all the carries. That's not realistic. There will always be a split. He's not AD. But given their performance so far, I have no idea why you'd favor carries to the guy getting half the yards per attempt. 60-70% McKinnon seems reasonable. He's getting much better production.

Honestly, I think Murray is still a little hobbled.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
dead_poet wrote:

He's also playing behind a worse offense line. Just because our run blocking has improved from mast year's most recent disaster doesn't mean it's to the level of Oakland. They've had a top-5 OL the last couple of years. We're nowhere near that. And he's playing on an ankle less than 100%. Cook and McKinnion averaged > 4 ypc behind this same line. Murray is averaging nearly half that.

I liked him in Oakland, too. But he should be getting less carries IMO. Not more. 4.3 ypc > 2.4. McKinnon always looks so much faster and more explosive. I want that option. Assuming he can handle it.


Lynch is running behind that same OL right now and looks awful and he's one of the toughest runners out there. OAK is 24th in the league for rushing offense and they can thank Jalen Richard for not allowing them to be dead last. I don't think that's the issue. Like I said he's a volume back. Just like AP is and Lynch is. Look what AP was averaging in NO getting 6 carries a game. Look what he did when he got 20+ carries in one game with Arizona and was only there for a few days to get the plays down and get use to the blocking. And Arizonas OL is worse than New Orleans. We're setting the guy up for failure when you're giving him single digit carries each game and giving him the ball in obvious running situations. No way he should be getting less carries. Especially when you have a back that's part midget and can't stay healthy or carry a load. Don't get me wrong Jet has played well, but he's not a workhorse. Murray is. Murray needs volume. Not 7 carries a game. That's not him nor was it AP. (And no im not comparing the two, they are just similar style backs)

"Part midget" or not, Jet has badly outplayed Murray. That's by any metric you want to use, statistical or observational.

You say giving Murray single-digit carries sets him up for failure. Giving him 20 carries would set the VIKINGS up for failure. I'll take the former.


I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

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Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
dead_poet wrote:
Honestly, I think Murray is still a little hobbled.


He looked good on his 2 decent runs on Sunday. He runs straight forward and seems to go down upon first significant contact. I cant argue against that. Hard to say if it is because he is still hurt or if he is just hesitant to push himself out of fear of being re-injured. He seemed faster, more powerful and more dynamic last season. I would still like to see how he fares as the season goes on.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Grashopa wrote:
As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.


Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it. No different then when people say Treadwell is a bust when he's gotten very little opportunity to perform. He gets an opportunity last week and look what happens. Running Murray all the time on first downs and pulling him after that does nothing.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Grashopa wrote:
As far as Mckinnon vs Murray. I have to lean towards agreeing with PHP on this. Many of PHPs points have been things i have thought about myself. It has only been a couple games that we have seen the Mckinnon and Murray show and Mckinnon has been hotter and has had the better stats and bigger plays but i am not sure that make Murray a horrible RB. In the first half on sunday he did have a 10yd run and a 7yd run up the middle but he also ran a lot of first down and was being swarmed in the backfield on several plays. On the other hand, Mckinnon was having much of his success on the outside and benefiting from mis direction. But thats just what my eyes saw.

I like what Mckinnon brings to this team, i have been a fan since he was drafted but i am not ready to write off Murray just yet after only a couple games as the starter. I feel like he will be more of a contributor as the season goes on. Only time will tell. In general, on this topic the board seems to be more short sighted than i am used to and it has caught me off guard to the point that i felt compelled to post.


Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it. No different then when people say Treadwell is a bust when he's gotten very little opportunity to perform. He gets an opportunity last week and look what happens. Running Murray all the time on first downs and pulling him after that does nothing.


Latavius Murray carries vs. GB:

1st down: 10 carries
2nd down: 5 carries
3rd down: 0
Total: 15 carries/28 yards, 1.9 YPC; 1 reception, 9 yards

Jet McKinnon rushes vs. GB

1st down: 11 carries
2nd down: 3 carries
3rd down: 2 carries
Total: 16 carries/69 yards, 1 TD, 4.3 YPC; 5 receptions, 30 yards, 1 TD

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Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
dead_poet wrote:
Latavius Murray carries vs. GB:

1st down: 10 carries
2nd down: 5 carries
3rd down: 0
Total: 15 carries/28 yards, 1.9 YPC; 1 reception, 9 yards

Jet McKinnon rushes vs. GB

1st down: 11 carries
2nd down: 3 carries
3rd down: 2 carries
Total: 16 carries/69 yards, 1 TD, 4.3 YPC; 5 receptions, 30 yards, 1 TD


Didnt realize the first down carries were that close. Either way, what I said in another post above is how many of those first down runs were guys literally already in the backfield before the handoff was given. There was no avoiding that for Murray. He had 5 carries that went for negative yardage. Not because he didnt hit a hole but that he was already tackled in the backfield the second he got the ball. Which forces us into a passing situation and in turn, Murray usually comes off.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
dead_poet wrote:
Just going by the eye test of what I've seen of his [Hundley's] play. I'd rather have him than anyone on the Browns roster.

I'd take Myles Garrett! But you were almost certainly talking QB. Frankly, Cleveland is so unwatchable that I'll just have to give you that one by default.


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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Didnt realize Murray was even worse then I thought. 1.9 YPC is just friggin terrible.

McKinnon isnt great, but he is doing good, and single handed has lead our rushing attack. And hes great catching the ball and picking up blitzes. Im glad I wasnt the one to pay Murray 5 million to play like he has. I like results, not excuses.


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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
No excuses there. Just stating the facts.....

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Murray suffered from RB by committee in Oakland and it was even worse. I was moderately happy when he was picked up to be the feature back (pre-draft) as I felt he would have been more productive in Oakland had he not had to split carries with 2 other backs.

I'm just really surprised at how a big guy can go down so easily. How many broken tackles does he have this year? Maybe it's the ankle but if you're slow, and lets face it Murray doesn't have speed, you're going to have to pick up yards by either being elusive or using power.

Some of it might be being spoiled with Cook as he is so much more explosive and also O-line issues. But on the whole, I don't think he's yet to live up to expectations. Hopefully he can get healthy and start contributing more.


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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

Why?

Because he's a "volume guy"? As with all professional sports, if you produce, you play. Murray isn't. It's remarkably simple, at least to me. Exactly what point am I missing here?

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Jerick McKinnon should carry the ball 25 times a game. Heck, I don't want McKinnon or ANY of the current Vikings backs carrying the ball 25 times. I simply said McKinnon is outplaying Murray, which he is, and it's not close.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
I think they make a solid tandum.... Murray and McKinnon. The are both 3 down backs. McKinnon fits the outside zone Scheme better than Murray no doubt. He's a different kind of runner. Murray is best in the power man scheme, like where he came from in Oakland. Vikings run some of it too, but it isn't the O lines strength. Our O line is set up with athletic guys ready to get on the move and block area's on the outside and not as much for one on one power blocking. I suspect this is some of the reason why Murray isn't having the success we'd hope he would have. As the season goes on I would expect we see Murray have some decent games. A lot of it will depend on Defensive personal and Scheme. Both of them staying healthy and fresh is the big thing. I hope the keep sharing the load and even start giving Ham some work.


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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Do you guys realize how good the defense looks after 6 weeks? They gave up only one TD in four of the six games this season (Saints, Lions, Bears, and Packers) and two TD's in the other games (and one special teams TD vs the Bears). And in those games where they gave up only one TD, there were... extenuating circumstances in most cases.

The Saints finally scored a TD against our prevent defense with under two minutes left in the game, down by three scores.
The Lions' scoring "drive" was all of 29 yards, after Dalvin Cook's injury and fumble.
The Packers' scoring "drive" was all of 18 yards, after McKinnon's fumble.

In other words, the Vikings have allowed only five long drives (that they didn't start already in FG territory) for TD's, when the game was still in doubt, in all six games this season. The year before Zimmer got here, we gave up 30 or more points in eight games!


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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

Why?

Because he's a "volume guy"? As with all professional sports, if you produce, you play. Murray isn't. It's remarkably simple, at least to me. Exactly what point am I missing here?

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Jerick McKinnon should carry the ball 25 times a game. Heck, I don't want McKinnon or ANY of the current Vikings backs carrying the ball 25 times. I simply said McKinnon is outplaying Murray, which he is, and it's not close.
You totally are missing his point.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

Why?

Because he's a "volume guy"? As with all professional sports, if you produce, you play. Murray isn't. It's remarkably simple, at least to me. Exactly what point am I missing here?

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Jerick McKinnon should carry the ball 25 times a game. Heck, I don't want McKinnon or ANY of the current Vikings backs carrying the ball 25 times. I simply said McKinnon is outplaying Murray, which he is, and it's not close.


I'm just saying that with Murray being a volume back, you arent going to see a whole lot out of him just like AP in New Orleans when he is getting limited carries a game. Look at AP vs. Denver 2 years ago. He was shut down the entire game then all of the sudden breaks a huge one. Murray is very similar in that regard. Murray was a workhorse for 1 year in Oakland and went for over 1,000 yards. When you arent giving him volume carries, you'll see less production. He's a guy that makes up his yardage on the big runs similar to AP. I'm not saying he should be getting all the work or anything. I'm just saying i think he needs more carries than he is getting. I mean last week wasnt a good week for him but at the same time, there were 5 running plays he has where he lost almost 10 yards because guys were literally already in the backfield the second he got the handoff. Thats not on Murray thats on the OL.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I give up. You're missing my whole point behind this. Do you really think I dont realize McKinnon is outplaying Murray?? Give McKinnon 25 carries a game. Let's see how well he does by seasons end. I can tell you he wont make it there. McKinnon and Murray are 2 different backs. McKinnon isnt a volume guy. Never has been. Murray is the opposite. I can tell you that he should be getting more than single digit carries.

Why?

Because he's a "volume guy"? As with all professional sports, if you produce, you play. Murray isn't. It's remarkably simple, at least to me. Exactly what point am I missing here?

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Jerick McKinnon should carry the ball 25 times a game. Heck, I don't want McKinnon or ANY of the current Vikings backs carrying the ball 25 times. I simply said McKinnon is outplaying Murray, which he is, and it's not close.


I'm just saying that with Murray being a volume back, you arent going to see a whole lot out of him just like AP in New Orleans when he is getting limited carries a game. Look at AP vs. Denver 2 years ago. He was shut down the entire game then all of the sudden breaks a huge one. Murray is very similar in that regard. Murray was a workhorse for 1 year in Oakland and went for over 1,000 yards. When you arent giving him volume carries, you'll see less production. He's a guy that makes up his yardage on the big runs similar to AP. I'm not saying he should be getting all the work or anything. I'm just saying i think he needs more carries than he is getting. I mean last week wasnt a good week for him but at the same time, there were 5 running plays he has where he lost almost 10 yards because guys were literally already in the backfield the second he got the handoff. Thats not on Murray thats on the OL.

Look, you and I are on the same side of most conversations. So I'm not going to argue too vehemently here.

Do I think Murray is a serviceable running back? Sure. But right now, he's not running well. Yes, he got hit in the backfield, but he also had a couple of plays where he had holes and simply had to make one man miss. He never did. As a result, they were relatively decent 4-5 yard gains, but make one man miss and they're chunk plays. Some of it may be the ankle. Some of it may, as you say, be lack of work. But a lot of it is him. When we played them out in Oakland in 2015, he was a tough man to bring down. That's not the case right now. He's going down at first touch.

It's a tough gig. You have to produce to get carries, but you can't produce if you don't get carries. Right now, he's not impressing anybody, and there's a guy named Jerick McKinnon who is playing really good football. So Jet is getting more reps.

Right now, I just don't see Latavius Murray as a difference-maker, more carries or not. He's not running well. I hope that will change.

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Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
McKinnon hits the holes faster, he also follows his blocks. I havent seen Murray do either. And Murray goes down easier then Mck, which shouldn't be. Hes a bigger back.


Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:11 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
God damn...I kind of love this. I understand that's not very "sportsmanlike" but...it's Rodgers.

Quote:
Aaron Rodgers: Vikings’ Anthony Barr gave me the finger after breaking my collarbone


http://www.twincities.com/2017/10/27/aa ... njury/amp/

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Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:34 am
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
dead_poet wrote:
God damn...I kind of love this. I understand that's not very "sportsmanlike" but...it's Rodgers.

Quote:
Aaron Rodgers: Vikings’ Anthony Barr gave me the finger after breaking my collarbone


http://www.twincities.com/2017/10/27/aa ... njury/amp/



Exactly, it's Rodgers. Meaning, he likely started whining to Barr that he hit him too hard, then Barr flipped him the bird, and THEN Aaron really got his panties twisted and ramped up his complaints.

I like Barr 2.0; a nastier, grittier version. He NEEDED to get a mean streak. I'm not saying I want him to lack sportsmanship, but I definitely want him to be tough as nails.


Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2118 ... finger-hit
Quote:
"I rolled out to my right, I threw the ball, and I got tackled and kind of slammed on the ground. But I'm good now," Rodgers said on the show. "Thirteen screws later and here I am."

Later, he admitted to ESPN Wisconsin's Jason Wilde that he may have exaggerated about having 13 screws implanted during the surgery.



Interesting. How trustworthy is ANY of his account, if he exaggerated about the number of screws?

He's such a good player, I wish he whined less.


Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
Just because.

https://twitter.com/bradrobinson8/statu ... 1948953600

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Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:46 pm
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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread

You know what's interesting? If you look at the very end of that GIF, maybe the last second, Matthews looks around for a flag.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

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Post Re: Week 6 reaction thread
J. Kapp 11 wrote:

You know what's interesting? If you look at the very end of that GIF, maybe the last second, Matthews looks around for a flag.

He knew exactly what he was doing.


I noticed that too.

Say what you want about Barr's hit - at least the guy he hit was standing up.

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