Bradfords knee??

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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by mansquatch » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:07 am

My favorite way to debunk this kind of thinking is to point out that no one would compare Belicik's career with the Browns as their HC vs. his time in NE. But it is OK to do that type of comparison with other players/coaches because...
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:11 am

FireSpieldope wrote:

Even his best year is still worse then Teddy's career AVG. Any way you slice it, Teddy has been a superior QB because the stats don't lie. You can't fake it.

Bradford is a 6.6 career YPA guy. Amongst his peers are Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez. Sorry dude. lol
The funny thing is, you know you are so far wrong and have been proved wrong but you're so caught up in your own asinine opinion that you cant even admit it.

If the stats dont lie, how did Teddy throw 14 TDs in back to back years showing little improvement, and Bradford comes in with zero preparation and throws 20 in 15 games? The sad thing is, Teddy threw 14 his rookie year in 13 games. Then he throws 14 his sophomore year and started in ALL 16 GAMES and a lower YPA. If anything, he went backwards after his rookie year.

Also, you talk about how amazing Teddys YPA is. Take some time out of your day and actually look up the game logs. 7.2 is very deceiving given the fact that he had 3 games over 10.0. Look at more games his rookie year. They are as follows: 5.1, 6.0, 5.7, 6.4, 5.6, 5.7, 6.6. He started 13 games that year. There was the YPA for 7 of them which is more than half. Just goes to show you how inflated that stat is because of a couple games he was well over 10.0. He's always been criticized for not stretching the field and throwing the deep ball but now you want to argue that with your little career YPA stat?? Try actually looking into it more

No less in 29 starts he has thrown more than 2 touchdowns ONE TIME. O.....N.....E in 29 starts and it was against the "checked out Bears". The same thing you faulted Bradford for in an above post.

I will let you know, you arent going to win with this argument with any of us. Your backing behind this argument is as weak as it gets. There are a lot of guys on this board with a lot of football knowledge. And I really have to question yours. You're drawing dead at this point and if you continue, this thread is going to end up getting locked out. I have had to eat crow plenty of times over the years of being on here but it wont be this time I can tell you that. Time to move on
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:43 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: The funny thing is, you know you are so far wrong and have been proved wrong but you're so caught up in your own asinine opinion that you cant even admit it.

If the stats dont lie, how did Teddy throw 14 TDs in back to back years showing little improvement, and Bradford comes in with zero preparation and throws 20 in 15 games? The sad thing is, Teddy threw 14 his rookie year in 13 games. Then he throws 14 his sophomore year and started in ALL 16 GAMES and a lower YPA. If anything, he went backwards after his rookie year.

Also, you talk about how amazing Teddys YPA is. Take some time out of your day and actually look up the game logs. 7.2 is very deceiving given the fact that he had 3 games over 10.0. Look at more games his rookie year. They are as follows: 5.1, 6.0, 5.7, 6.4, 5.6, 5.7, 6.6. He started 13 games that year. There was the YPA for 7 of them which is more than half. Just goes to show you how inflated that stat is because of a couple games he was well over 10.0. He's always been criticized for not stretching the field and throwing the deep ball but now you want to argue that with your little career YPA stat?? Try actually looking into it more

No less in 29 starts he has thrown more than 2 touchdowns ONE TIME. O.....N.....E in 29 starts and it was against the "checked out Bears". The same thing you faulted Bradford for in an above post.

I will let you know, you arent going to win with this argument with any of us. Your backing behind this argument is as weak as it gets. There are a lot of guys on this board with a lot of football knowledge. And I really have to question yours. You're drawing dead at this point and if you continue, this thread is going to end up getting locked out. I have had to eat crow plenty of times over the years of being on here but it wont be this time I can tell you that. Time to move on
Quit cherry picking stats. Same as that other clown who thinks Bradfords career started in Philadelphia, even though he sucked there and sucked here. Losing games with a great defense is hard to do. Only a Dumpy QB can do it.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:46 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I'm pretty sure 0 people on here said Teddy was trash. Nobody is saying we shouldnt give him a chance either. Nobody is against Teddy. But bottom line is, Sam Bradford is a better QB. Look at the stats, look at his accuracy, look at his deep ball, look at his release, etc. By looking at that stuff you cant sit there and say Teddy is better. It's just not realistic. We all back Teddy and love Teddy but if they were both healthy, you start Sam any day of the week over Teddy.
I looked at the stats and they are worse then Teddys. How come you can't figure that out? Loses more games, throws more 1 yard dumpoffs so he can pad his precious completion percentage record. Woopty doo, try winning some games Dumpford. Dude would rather check down on 3rd and 8 then take a chance to win the game.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Just Me » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:46 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: OK, just for giggles lets look up career YPA for a bunch of QB's. Let's see if YPA matters or not. And keep in mind, this is career. Not 1 pass. We have enough data points to make logical conclusions.

Aaron Rodgers- 7.9 YPA
Tom Brady- 7.5 YPA
Drew Brees- 7.5 YPA
Ben Roethlisberger- 7.9 YPA
Russell Wilson- 7.9 YPA

Hmmmmmm..... see any similarities?

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA

Let's look up some low end QB's----

Matt Cassell- 6.5 YPA
Case Keenum- 6.8 YPA
Mike Glennon- 6.4 YPA
David Carr- 6.4 YPA
Mark Sanchez- 6.7 YPA
Ryan Fitxpatrick- 6.7 YPA
Jon Kitna- 6.7 YPA
Trent Dilfer- 6.5 YPA (worst QB to win a SB)

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA

You can't fake CAREER YPA. Like a baseball hitters batting avg. The good players complete a higher percentage of passes for more yardage on average. Sorry guys. :banana:
Two things:

1) My using one pass as an example was to simplify my point (not to suggest that 1 pass is any meaningful statistic). By taking that example a little too literally, one might assume that 1/1 in passing makes one a great quarterback since his completion percentage would be 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make and it's a little disheartening that I actually to have to explain that wasn't what I meant.

2) Is Jay Cutler a good quarterback? (His career YPA is 7.2) It's not a trick question. Some say he is. Some say he's not. If it's as cut-and-dried as you're suggesting, those who don't think Cutler is a particularly good quarterback are just wrong and there's no point in dicussing it further. What about Tommy Kramer (6.8 YPA)? He sucks? End of discussion? What about Mariota (7.6 YPA)? He's "better" than Brady (7.5 YPA)?

Nobody is "faking" anything. I'm just curious as to your reasoning that YPA (to the exclusion of any other relevant factors that might affect YPA) somehow is a definitive measurement of anything? I'm not even agreeing or disagreeing with your conclusion(s). I simply am not ready to blindly evaluate quarterbacks on 1 statistic of their overall performance.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:03 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: Quit cherry picking stats. Same as that other clown who thinks Bradfords career started in Philadelphia, even though he sucked there and sucked here. Losing games with a great defense is hard to do. Only a Dumpy QB can do it.
First of all, the insults you're making are going to get you banned from here so I'm not really sure who you think you are or what you're trying to do but either way, there is no cherry picking stats. Problem is, you just look at the bold print and dont look to see whats behind the closed doors.

Bradford "sucked" in Philly with a stat line of: 19 TDs, 14 INTs, 3700+ yards, 7.0 YPA and an 86.4 QBR

AND

"sucked here" with 23 TDs, 5 INTs, over 4000 yards, 7.1 YPA and over a 100 QBR

BUTTTTT....

Teddy "lit it up" with seasons of 14 TDs, 12 INTs, 2900 yards, 7.3 YPA and an 85.2 QBR

AND 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 3200 yards, 7.2 YPA and an 88.7 QBR


SERIOUSLY DUDE????!!! What is so hard to see in that. No less Teddy has done no more with this team than Bradford. Adrian Peterson and our defense got us to the playoffs. Not a QB that threw 14 TDs. OUR PASSING OFFENSE WAS 31ST IN THE LEAGUE IN 2015. It was never that bad with Bradford. It was 18th to be exact. BIG difference. The proof is right there and thats without me going digging on game by game stuff. You're beat!! Give it up and move on. You arent winning this argument and insulting me and others isnt helping your cause. Move on
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by mansquatch » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:06 pm

Please stop feeding the troll.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:09 pm

Just Me wrote: Two things:

1) My using one pass as an example was to simplify my point (not to suggest that 1 pass is any meaningful statistic). By taking that example a little too literally, one might assume that 1/1 in passing makes one a great quarterback since his completion percentage would be 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make and it's a little disheartening that I actually to have to explain that wasn't what I meant.

2) Is Jay Cutler a good quarterback? (His career YPA is 7.2) It's not a trick question. Some say he is. Some say he's not. If it's as cut-and-dried as you're suggesting, those who don't think Cutler is a particularly good quarterback are just wrong and there's no point in dicussing it further. What about Tommy Kramer (6.8 YPA)? He sucks? End of discussion? What about Mariota (7.6 YPA)? He's "better" than Brady (7.5 YPA)?

Nobody is "faking" anything. I'm just curious as to your reasoning that YPA (to the exclusion of any other relevant factors that might affect YPA) somehow is a definitive measurement of anything? I'm not even agreeing or disagreeing with your conclusion(s). I simply am not ready to blindly evaluate quarterbacks on 1 statistic of their overall performance.
I wouldn't call Cutler good, more like AVG Over his Career. Again I rank Teddy in the 16-18 range. Not good. About avg. BUT he has upside potential as well!

Passing stats have also gotten better over time. DB's can't hold like they use to. So it's hard to compare the 80's with the current day. Tommy Kramer might have been above avg in his day because teams were not passing as easily as they do in todays game.

Mariota could be on par with Brady but of course he hasn't won anything yet, but so far so good! Early in Bradys career the defense carried the team mostly, not taking away anything he's done in the last few years of course because clearly he has carried the team versus just the defense. Like many QB's he wasn't an all star in his second season, neither was Teddy.

Is YPA the only stat that matters and the end all be all? No. But as you can see the great QB's are high in YPA and the bad ones, well they are not, clearly. If you are above 7 or mid to high 7's you are doing something right.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:14 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: First of all, the insults you're making are going to get you banned from here so I'm not really sure who you think you are or what you're trying to do but either way, there is no cherry picking stats. Problem is, you just look at the bold print and dont look to see whats behind the closed doors.

Bradford "sucked" in Philly with a stat line of: 19 TDs, 14 INTs, 3700+ yards, 7.0 YPA and an 86.4 QBR

AND

"sucked here" with 23 TDs, 5 INTs, over 4000 yards, 7.1 YPA and over a 100 QBR

BUTTTTT....

Teddy "lit it up" with seasons of 14 TDs, 12 INTs, 2900 yards, 7.3 YPA and an 85.2 QBR

AND 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 3200 yards, 7.2 YPA and an 88.7 QBR


SERIOUSLY DUDE????!!! What is so hard to see in that. No less Teddy has done no more with this team than Bradford. Adrian Peterson and our defense got us to the playoffs. Not a QB that threw 14 TDs. OUR PASSING OFFENSE WAS 31ST IN THE LEAGUE IN 2015. It was never that bad with Bradford. It was 18th to be exact. BIG difference. The proof is right there and thats without me going digging on game by game stuff. You're beat!! Give it up and move on. You arent winning this argument and insulting me and others isnt helping your cause. Move on
The defense? I told you where the defense was really ranked. 14th in the NFL!!! It was a myth they were top 5 in 2015. Because the Vikings had longer ball controlled drives then avg they had far fewer possessions FOR and AGAINST. Thus is the reason why I use Points Per Drive because it eliminates the number of possessions.

The reality was that the Offense was BETTER then the Defense that year. 12th versus 14th. Hate to break it to ya! :welcome
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:53 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: The reality was that the Offense was BETTER then the Defense that year. 12th versus 14th. Hate to break it to ya! :welcome
Wtf stat are you even looking at?? That just shows how clueless you are about this. The Vikings were 29th in total offense in 2015 and they were 31st in passing offense. That is pathetic. I have no clue where 12th is coming from with anything and any site that did have our offense somehow in the middle of the pack (which isnt possible) it was simply because of......Adrian Peterson. Not Teddy Bridgewater. That literally cant be anymore obvious. Leading rusher in the league vs. bottom barrel passing offense. That's like saying Luke Longley lead the Bulls to 6 championships, not Jordan

That same year, our rushing offense was 4th and our defense was 13th in total defense.

So you tell me what got us to the playoffs? It sure wasnt Teddy Bridgewater and his 31st ranked passing offense we had.

It was Adrian Peterson and the defense. No less at years end in 2015 and in the Seattle playoff game, our defense was top 5 in the league throughout weeks 15 into the playoffs.

In Teddy's two years, we were 28th and 31st in passing offense. In Bradfords one year, we were 18th. Cant make it anymore clear than that. So you can take whatever those stats are that you pulled out of the clouds and toss them out the window because again, you truly have no idea what you're talking about. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole at this point.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:14 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wtf stat are you even looking at?? That just shows how clueless you are about this. The Vikings were 29th in total offense in 2015 and they were 31st in passing offense. That is pathetic. I have no clue where 12th is coming from with anything and any site that did have our offense somehow in the middle of the pack (which isnt possible) it was simply because of......Adrian Peterson. Not Teddy Bridgewater. That literally cant be anymore obvious. Leading rusher in the league vs. bottom barrel passing offense. That's like saying Luke Longley lead the Bulls to 6 championships, not Jordan

That same year, our rushing offense was 4th and our defense was 13th in total defense.

So you tell me what got us to the playoffs? It sure wasnt Teddy Bridgewater and his 31st ranked passing offense we had.

It was Adrian Peterson and the defense. No less at years end in 2015 and in the Seattle playoff game, our defense was top 5 in the league throughout weeks 15 into the playoffs.

In Teddy's two years, we were 28th and 31st in passing offense. In Bradfords one year, we were 18th. Cant make it anymore clear than that. So you can take whatever those stats are that you pulled out of the clouds and toss them out the window because again, you truly have no idea what you're talking about. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole at this point.
POINTS PER DRIVE!!! NOT PER GAME.

I told you again why. They had far fewer possession for and against then the league avg. so points per game stats were skewed. To correctly get an accurate picture is to use PPD.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2015

They scored 1.96 PPD while giving up 1.77 PPD. (I mixed up the rankings but nevertheless the defense was NOT elite in 2015). It was slightly above avg.

99.9% of people do not know this stuff. It was a myth that the Vikings defense was elite in 2015. It wasn't. It was better last year coming in at 7th PPD.

Why do people argue about stuff they don't know about? :wallbang:
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Just Me » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:41 pm

FireSpieldope wrote:
POINTS PER DRIVE!!! NOT PER GAME.

I told you again why. They had far fewer possession for and against then the league avg. so points per game stats were skewed. To correctly get an accurate picture is to use PPD.
Look - I'm not looking to be a contrarian, but even football outsiders has the following disclaimer on their website:
These stats are computed from NFL Drive Charts and are not adjusted for strength of schedule or situation.
(Emphasis mine).

FireSpieldope wrote: 99.9% of people do not know this stuff. It was a myth that the Vikings defense was elite in 2015. It wasn't. It was better last year coming in at 7th PPD.
Again, without taking into context other factors that might affect the results you can have a misleading result. You actually did factor in other data (which you were right to do so) so when I used the Tommy Kramer YPA stats to ask if he was "bad." You correctly pointed out that Kramer was a QB in the 80s when the rules did not favor offenses as much as they do now. You were right to point that out, and it is a perfect illustration as to why you can't blindly follow any statistic without considering the totality of the circumstances.

I'd have to compare strength of schedules for the two years you mention and look at field positions in drives before I could come to any conclusions. If the defense was often playing against a "short field," they would naturally surrender more points per drive even if they were objectively "better." I just don't know the answer to those questions, and you have not provided that data to back up your assertion(s).
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:05 pm

Just Me wrote: Look - I'm not looking to be a contrarian, but even football outsiders has the following disclaimer on their website:
(Emphasis mine).

Again, without taking into context other factors that might affect the results you can have a misleading result. You actually did factor in other data (which you were right to do so) so when I used the Tommy Kramer YPA stats to ask if he was "bad." You correctly pointed out that Kramer was a QB in the 80s when the rules did not favor offenses as much as they do now. You were right to point that out, and it is a perfect illustration as to why you can't blindly follow any statistic without considering the totality of the circumstances.

I'd have to compare strength of schedules for the two years you mention and look at field positions in drives before I could come to any conclusions. If the defense was often playing against a "short field," they would naturally surrender more points per drive even if they were objectively "better." I just don't know the answer to those questions, and you have not provided that data to back up your assertion(s).
Of course you are correct that you could dig even deeper to get a more accurate result, but I doubt it changes much either way. It surely won't make the Vikings defense all of a sudden top 5 like most here probably thought they were. The Vikings had such a slow paced offense and a bend but don't break defense that they just had a lot fewer possessions then the avg. A team that passes a lot or runs some hurry up is going to have more points and more points given up. Not that hard to figure out.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by CbusVikesFan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:38 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: POINTS PER DRIVE!!! NOT PER GAME.

I told you again why. They had far fewer possession for and against then the league avg. so points per game stats were skewed. To correctly get an accurate picture is to use PPD.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2015

They scored 1.96 PPD while giving up 1.77 PPD. (I mixed up the rankings but nevertheless the defense was NOT elite in 2015). It was slightly above avg.

99.9% of people do not know this stuff. It was a myth that the Vikings defense was elite in 2015. It wasn't. It was better last year coming in at 7th PPD.

Why do people argue about stuff they don't know about? :wallbang:
There are two sets of stats that matter.
Points for, points against.
Wins vs losses.
I think the points per drive stat is inflated by kicking a bunch of fgs. Which we did a lot of in lieu of tds.
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Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by PurpleMustReign » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:58 pm

mansquatch wrote:Please stop feeding the troll.
Amen.

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