Bradfords knee??

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

PurpleKoolaid
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8359
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:52 pm

I dont think Sam will play for us again, but if he is deemed fit to play, and looks healthy, he should be the starting QB. But I dont think he will be, or will remain healthy for long. I really think we have a better chance to see Teddy again this year, and with the improved Oline and receivers he may look like a much better QB.

User avatar
720pete
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:07 pm

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by 720pete » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:05 am

Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666

User avatar
Thaumaturgist
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 600
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Thaumaturgist » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:11 am

720pete wrote:Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666
Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

User avatar
dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24447
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by dead_poet » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:14 am

Thaumaturgist wrote: Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
#triggered

:soap
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

FireSpieldope
Backup
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 am

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:24 am

Thaumaturgist wrote: Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
I'll take 17-11 over 4-2. Because 4-2 can turn into 11-17 just as easily over that time frame. Not enough data to support Case. Plus with what we see on the field, obvious inaccuracies and up and down play.

Remember the Vikings started 5-0 last year, Bradford 4-0 and that turned into 8-8 (7-8 for Dumpford).

I also think overall the team is better then when Teddy was playing. Stronger Defense by a little, better OLine and WR's. I'm hoping Case can hold down the fort longer till Teddy gets back and fully ready.

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5282
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:47 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: I'll take 17-11 over 4-2. Because 4-2 can turn into 11-17 just as easily over that time frame. Not enough data to support Case. Plus with what we see on the field, obvious inaccuracies and up and down play.

Remember the Vikings started 5-0 last year, Bradford 4-0 and that turned into 8-8 (7-8 for Dumpford).

I also think overall the team is better then when Teddy was playing. Stronger Defense by a little, better OLine and WR's. I'm hoping Case can hold down the fort longer till Teddy gets back and fully ready.
"Dumpford"?? Yeah 20 TDs and 5 INTs really warrants "Dumpford"?? No less he's a better pure QB than Teddy is. And please dont bother going down the injury road given that Teddy almost lost his leg on a non-contact play. At this stage, they are both injury riddled. So to say he is "Dumpford" is just ignorant given the numbers he put up last year.

You know what else I find funny....everyone wants to see Teddy behind this OL and Teddy with a running game and so on. How about Bradford?? Has he EVER been able to enjoy a good running game here?? One game vs New Orleans?? Has he EVER been able to play behind a good OL here?? One game vs New Orleans. Everyone talks about Teddy being the starter because he hasnt gotten these "luxuries". Well I can tell you that he's gotten more luxury than Bradford ever has here. He was able to enjoy AP for 1 year. Bradford has had none of this. And the one game he did, he went off for 3 TDs and 350 yards. But everyone is so quick to write off Bradford

Also:

Bradford had NO running game and a TERRIBLE OL and threw 20 TDs, 5 INTs, almost 4000 yards and a 71.6% comp percentage (an NFL record by the way) in 15 games. He did that with next to NOTHING in those areas and zero offseason to prepare.

Teddy had the best running back in the game behind him in 2015 and an average OL and threw for 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 3200 yards and a 65.3% comp percentage in 16 games with offseason to prepare.

So all in all, Sam threw 6 more TDs, 4 less INTs, 800 more yards and had MUCH better accuracy than Teddy in 16 games with ZERO for a running game and OL.

Dont get me wrong, I love Teddy. But Sam Bradford is a better QB. There is no doubt in my mind. Granted, Teddy brings some valuable things to the game but from a pure quarterback standpoint, Sam Bradford is better and I dont think it's really that close.

Is Teddy better than Case? Yeah by a long shot and we would be better with him but I take Bradford any day over Teddy given both are healthy. I just find it baffling how guys say "well Teddy didnt have this and Teddy didnt have that, we need Teddy back". How about SAM BRADFORD?? What has he ever gotten besides one of the WORST OLs in Vikings history and a DEAD LAST rushing attack??? Man, some fans really make me scratch my head. Again, I love Teddy but would much rather have Bradford
Image

FireSpieldope
Backup
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 am

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:03 pm

Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.

Alaskan
Backup
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Alaskan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:14 pm

The whole Teddy vs. Sam argument is really pointless. Both have significant injury history, there futures are both in serious question, that's reality! I have no idea if Teddy will ever be anything like he was pre injury.....all we can do is wait and see........the odds aren't in his favor if we look at how others with similar injuries have faired. Sam, has some serious problems of his own. His injury is a directly caused by the knee injuries in his past the way I understand it. Who knows how this QB drama will end! I really think the Vikings would be crazy to commit to either one long term unless they prove they can perform post injury...... and that's gonna take some time to prove.

To me, either is more than capable of playing the role Payton Manning or Brock Osweiller played in Denver in 2015 if they can be/stay on the field after they recover. They are both smart Qb's with high football IQ's and have enough skills to do the job better than Payton Manning did in 2015. The way this team is built and coached is very similar to that 2015 Denver Team...... Ball control, don't turn the ball over and our defense will beat your offense. They have plenty of skill players on offense to make plays, like Denver did. Kicker is still questionable IMO This isn't the first time this type of team has won a championship. Seattle's recipe was very similar, as was the Ravens with Ray Lewis, to name a few. If we can remain relatively healthy and either one of those QBs come back healthy, we can play with anyone in the league.

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11230
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by S197 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:09 pm

halfgiz wrote:With Sam Bradford (knee) also on the mend, Rapoport mentioned that the Vikings could be rapidly approaching a Week 10 scenario where Bradford, Bridgewater and interim starter Case Keenum are all healthy at once.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... e-earliest
Umm... yay? That's literally the best scenario we could ask for.

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6908
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:06 pm

FireSpieldope wrote:Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.
I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

FireSpieldope
Backup
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 am

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by FireSpieldope » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:23 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.
3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18386
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
Contact:

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:39 pm

Teddy did not light it up as a rookie.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬

User avatar
Purple Martin
Starter
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:08 pm
Location: The Trees

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by Purple Martin » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:45 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: 3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.

The guy with less experience and less to show for it is always the guy with "the most potential." There's no way to know if he'll ever live up to it. He hasn't in 29 games so far, so you play the guy who plays better. Thats Bradford. Its comical that you would rank Teddy above Sam, there's simply no justification for that. Sam has had three 3 TD games in a row. What more do you want in the performance department? Teddy has had one 3 TD game in his career, and has thrown zero TDs in 12 of his 29 starts. So 41% of the time you can count on 0 Tds from Teddy, and you think this places him in the 16-18 slot? Thats some wacky math.
Mothman wrote:... a good completion percentage in a performance like that is like putting lipstick on a pig.

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6908
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:58 pm

FireSpieldope wrote: 3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.
Holy crap, dude, but your thinking couldn't be more backwards. The key isn't third down. It's first down.

The average conversion rate for an NFL team on second and 6-or-less is 56%. On second and 7-to-10, it's 27%. On second and more-than-10, drops to 17%. Four yards is the magic number. Gain less than four, and you're not going to make a first down 3 out of 4 times.

Too often last year, the Vikings found themselves in 2nd-and-long because of false starts, holding penalties, sacks and TFLs in the running game. As it was, they ranked a paltry 23rd in the NFL in average gain per first-down play, but those stats don't take penalties into effect. I don't care who the quarterback is, if you shoot yourself in the foot as often as the Vikings did last year, you're not going to have a ton of success on third down.

And sorry, but your rankings of Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater don't really mean much ... especially if you don't back up your rankings with something besides your own opinions and irrelevant correlations.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

PurpleKoolaid
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8359
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Re: Bradfords knee??

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:11 am

Teddy didnt have much of a chance to play before he got injured. He played sooner then I thought he should have too, but we didnt have a choice.

And it took a LOT of QBs more then a few games before hitting their stride. Teddy is still very young and inexperienced. And now a new Oline. He will have his work cut out for him. I believe he was held back too when he got to play, from throwing deeper balls and making audibles. So give the guy a real chance at playing before you say hes trash, and Sam will automatically be better from whatever injury he has now. If Sams really healthy and not limping around and curling up into the fetal position on the field, he should start. If not, its Teddy's time. Its pretty simple. Cause our schedule gets hard after the bye week. and I doubt if anyone has forgot how badly we sucked last year after the bye.

Post Reply