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 Bradfords knee?? 
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
I dont think Sam will play for us again, but if he is deemed fit to play, and looks healthy, he should be the starting QB. But I dont think he will be, or will remain healthy for long. I really think we have a better chance to see Teddy again this year, and with the improved Oline and receivers he may look like a much better QB.


Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:52 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666


Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:05 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
720pete wrote:
Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666

Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.


Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:11 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Thaumaturgist wrote:
720pete wrote:
Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666

Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.


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Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:14 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Thaumaturgist wrote:
720pete wrote:
Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666

Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.


I'll take 17-11 over 4-2. Because 4-2 can turn into 11-17 just as easily over that time frame. Not enough data to support Case. Plus with what we see on the field, obvious inaccuracies and up and down play.

Remember the Vikings started 5-0 last year, Bradford 4-0 and that turned into 8-8 (7-8 for Dumpford).

I also think overall the team is better then when Teddy was playing. Stronger Defense by a little, better OLine and WR's. I'm hoping Case can hold down the fort longer till Teddy gets back and fully ready.


Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:24 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:
Thaumaturgist wrote:
720pete wrote:
Teddy 17-11. .607
Sam 8-8 .500
Case 4-2 .666

Obviously Case is the best QB. :whistle:

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.


I'll take 17-11 over 4-2. Because 4-2 can turn into 11-17 just as easily over that time frame. Not enough data to support Case. Plus with what we see on the field, obvious inaccuracies and up and down play.

Remember the Vikings started 5-0 last year, Bradford 4-0 and that turned into 8-8 (7-8 for Dumpford).

I also think overall the team is better then when Teddy was playing. Stronger Defense by a little, better OLine and WR's. I'm hoping Case can hold down the fort longer till Teddy gets back and fully ready.


"Dumpford"?? Yeah 20 TDs and 5 INTs really warrants "Dumpford"?? No less he's a better pure QB than Teddy is. And please dont bother going down the injury road given that Teddy almost lost his leg on a non-contact play. At this stage, they are both injury riddled. So to say he is "Dumpford" is just ignorant given the numbers he put up last year.

You know what else I find funny....everyone wants to see Teddy behind this OL and Teddy with a running game and so on. How about Bradford?? Has he EVER been able to enjoy a good running game here?? One game vs New Orleans?? Has he EVER been able to play behind a good OL here?? One game vs New Orleans. Everyone talks about Teddy being the starter because he hasnt gotten these "luxuries". Well I can tell you that he's gotten more luxury than Bradford ever has here. He was able to enjoy AP for 1 year. Bradford has had none of this. And the one game he did, he went off for 3 TDs and 350 yards. But everyone is so quick to write off Bradford

Also:

Bradford had NO running game and a TERRIBLE OL and threw 20 TDs, 5 INTs, almost 4000 yards and a 71.6% comp percentage (an NFL record by the way) in 15 games. He did that with next to NOTHING in those areas and zero offseason to prepare.

Teddy had the best running back in the game behind him in 2015 and an average OL and threw for 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 3200 yards and a 65.3% comp percentage in 16 games with offseason to prepare.

So all in all, Sam threw 6 more TDs, 4 less INTs, 800 more yards and had MUCH better accuracy than Teddy in 16 games with ZERO for a running game and OL.

Dont get me wrong, I love Teddy. But Sam Bradford is a better QB. There is no doubt in my mind. Granted, Teddy brings some valuable things to the game but from a pure quarterback standpoint, Sam Bradford is better and I dont think it's really that close.

Is Teddy better than Case? Yeah by a long shot and we would be better with him but I take Bradford any day over Teddy given both are healthy. I just find it baffling how guys say "well Teddy didnt have this and Teddy didnt have that, we need Teddy back". How about SAM BRADFORD?? What has he ever gotten besides one of the WORST OLs in Vikings history and a DEAD LAST rushing attack??? Man, some fans really make me scratch my head. Again, I love Teddy but would much rather have Bradford

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Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:47 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.


Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:03 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
The whole Teddy vs. Sam argument is really pointless. Both have significant injury history, there futures are both in serious question, that's reality! I have no idea if Teddy will ever be anything like he was pre injury.....all we can do is wait and see........the odds aren't in his favor if we look at how others with similar injuries have faired. Sam, has some serious problems of his own. His injury is a directly caused by the knee injuries in his past the way I understand it. Who knows how this QB drama will end! I really think the Vikings would be crazy to commit to either one long term unless they prove they can perform post injury...... and that's gonna take some time to prove.

To me, either is more than capable of playing the role Payton Manning or Brock Osweiller played in Denver in 2015 if they can be/stay on the field after they recover. They are both smart Qb's with high football IQ's and have enough skills to do the job better than Payton Manning did in 2015. The way this team is built and coached is very similar to that 2015 Denver Team...... Ball control, don't turn the ball over and our defense will beat your offense. They have plenty of skill players on offense to make plays, like Denver did. Kicker is still questionable IMO This isn't the first time this type of team has won a championship. Seattle's recipe was very similar, as was the Ravens with Ray Lewis, to name a few. If we can remain relatively healthy and either one of those QBs come back healthy, we can play with anyone in the league.


Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:14 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
halfgiz wrote:
With Sam Bradford (knee) also on the mend, Rapoport mentioned that the Vikings could be rapidly approaching a Week 10 scenario where Bradford, Bridgewater and interim starter Case Keenum are all healthy at once.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... e-earliest


Umm... yay? That's literally the best scenario we could ask for.


Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:09 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.

I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.

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Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:06 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
FireSpieldope wrote:
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.

I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.


3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.


Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:23 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Teddy did not light it up as a rookie.

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Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:39 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
FireSpieldope wrote:
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.

I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.


3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.



The guy with less experience and less to show for it is always the guy with "the most potential." There's no way to know if he'll ever live up to it. He hasn't in 29 games so far, so you play the guy who plays better. Thats Bradford. Its comical that you would rank Teddy above Sam, there's simply no justification for that. Sam has had three 3 TD games in a row. What more do you want in the performance department? Teddy has had one 3 TD game in his career, and has thrown zero TDs in 12 of his 29 starts. So 41% of the time you can count on 0 Tds from Teddy, and you think this places him in the 16-18 slot? Thats some wacky math.

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Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
FireSpieldope wrote:
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.

I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.


3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.

Holy crap, dude, but your thinking couldn't be more backwards. The key isn't third down. It's first down.

The average conversion rate for an NFL team on second and 6-or-less is 56%. On second and 7-to-10, it's 27%. On second and more-than-10, drops to 17%. Four yards is the magic number. Gain less than four, and you're not going to make a first down 3 out of 4 times.

Too often last year, the Vikings found themselves in 2nd-and-long because of false starts, holding penalties, sacks and TFLs in the running game. As it was, they ranked a paltry 23rd in the NFL in average gain per first-down play, but those stats don't take penalties into effect. I don't care who the quarterback is, if you shoot yourself in the foot as often as the Vikings did last year, you're not going to have a ton of success on third down.

And sorry, but your rankings of Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater don't really mean much ... especially if you don't back up your rankings with something besides your own opinions and irrelevant correlations.

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Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:58 pm
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Teddy didnt have much of a chance to play before he got injured. He played sooner then I thought he should have too, but we didnt have a choice.

And it took a LOT of QBs more then a few games before hitting their stride. Teddy is still very young and inexperienced. And now a new Oline. He will have his work cut out for him. I believe he was held back too when he got to play, from throwing deeper balls and making audibles. So give the guy a real chance at playing before you say hes trash, and Sam will automatically be better from whatever injury he has now. If Sams really healthy and not limping around and curling up into the fetal position on the field, he should start. If not, its Teddy's time. Its pretty simple. Cause our schedule gets hard after the bye week. and I doubt if anyone has forgot how badly we sucked last year after the bye.


Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:11 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Not sure where to put this, so i will post this here.

Can someone make me an Adam Theilen profile picture, thats already to size, and all I need to do is click on it?
Thanks


Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:13 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
FireSpieldope wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.
I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.


3rd and long can be 3rd and 7 and that's what I meant. in 2015 Teddy did a great job on 3rd and long (3rd and 5 - 3rd and 10) Do you guys forget how many games the defense won last year, how many times they got a turnover only to see the Vikes go 3 and out? I'm not saying it's all Bradfords fault. He's a bottom end QB, which of course which is why he was dumped twice. Once for a rookie and once for another guy who is a backup. I'd rank Bradford around 22-24th in the league amongst starters. Teddy a little higher, 16-18 range. Much higher potential though.

Holy crap, dude, but your thinking couldn't be more backwards. The key isn't third down. It's first down.

The average conversion rate for an NFL team on second and 6-or-less is 56%. On second and 7-to-10, it's 27%. On second and more-than-10, drops to 17%. Four yards is the magic number. Gain less than four, and you're not going to make a first down 3 out of 4 times.

Too often last year, the Vikings found themselves in 2nd-and-long because of false starts, holding penalties, sacks and TFLs in the running game. As it was, they ranked a paltry 23rd in the NFL in average gain per first-down play, but those stats don't take penalties into effect. I don't care who the quarterback is, if you shoot yourself in the foot as often as the Vikings did last year, you're not going to have a ton of success on third down.

And sorry, but your rankings of Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater don't really mean much ... especially if you don't back up your rankings with something besides your own opinions and irrelevant correlations.


3 TD games in a row? Two didn't even count. One against the Bears who already packed it in for the season and wanted a higher draft pick. The other was a game where the Vikings were down huge and it was garbage time TD's. i.e.- stat padders. Plus they LOST. Who cares what your stats are when you lose.

Also who cares about TD passes. That is the most meaningless stat. What ACTUALLY matters is does the offense SCORE points. Wether you pass it for 1 yard for a TD or run it in for 1 yard. The QB is getting you there and played a major role in the points on nearly every drive. Even with AP.

Here's a couple things you can't fake. Avg per attempt. Because your 1 yard pass actually hurts you. Lets see how each QB has faired.

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA career

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA career

Dumpford thought he could take 1 yard passes and go to the Superbowl. Yet he has never had a winning season. Never played in a playoff game. Has the worst stats of any QB with 60 plus starts since 2010.

Who scored more points per drive?

Teddy's 2015 Viking offense- 14th in the NFL

Sam's 2016 Vikings offense- 22nd in the NFL

What were their records?

Teddy 2015- 11-5

Sam 2016- 7-8

How was the defense backing them up (PPD)?

2015 Vikings- 12th ranked defense

2016 Vikings- 7th ranked defense

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2016

So not only does Teddy pass for more yards per attempt he ALSO won 4 more games with a WORSE defense!!!

If Bradford was a 2nd round pick he'd never have gotten so many chances. Because his teams always fails, even with a 7th ranked defense, he managed to have a losing record last year.

Sorry dude, the stats don't lie like your opinion. :tongue:


Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:08 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
You do know stats aren't infallible right? They're open to interpretation.

Also opinions are not lies. Lies and facts are verifiable and objective; opinions are not verifiable and are subjective by nature. You saying Bradford sucks is an opinion like anyone else's.


Also, I find this whole Teddy vs. Bradford thing silly. I'd gladly take either/or when they get healthy and see their potential grow.


Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:37 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Quote:
Here's a couple things you can't fake. Avg per attempt. Because your 1 yard pass actually hurts you. Lets see how each QB has faired.

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA career

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA career

Actually, that statistic (as previously mentioned about statistics in general) is subject to all kinds of interpretation. To make my point;

Situation 1 - Sam Bradford throws a 6 yard pass to a receiver who is tackled immediately (falls forward for .6 yards)

Situation 2 - Bridgewater throws a 1 yard pass to Peterson (or Cook - or another runner who causes defenders to miss and pick up extra yardage) and runs for an additional 6.2 yards after the catch


The stats are the stats, but without context (and interpretation) you can try to make opposite points using the same statistics. So, in the strictest sense (You cant "fake" stats) you are correct. People can, and often do draw incorrect conclusions from those statistics.

PS - I'm not trying to assert the above scenario is the case with the statistics, I'm saying that could be a situation where focusing solely on that data to the exclusion of other considerations might be misleading.

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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Not sure where to put this, so i will post this here.

Can someone make me an Adam Theilen profile picture, thats already to size, and all I need to do is click on it?
Thanks


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Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:31 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Just Me wrote:
Quote:
Here's a couple things you can't fake. Avg per attempt. Because your 1 yard pass actually hurts you. Lets see how each QB has faired.

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA career

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA career

Actually, that statistic (as previously mentioned about statistics in general) is subject to all kinds of interpretation. To make my point;

Situation 1 - Sam Bradford throws a 6 yard pass to a receiver who is tackled immediately (falls forward for .6 yards)

Situation 2 - Bridgewater throws a 1 yard pass to Peterson (or Cook - or another runner who causes defenders to miss and pick up extra yardage) and runs for an additional 6.2 yards after the catch


The stats are the stats, but without context (and interpretation) you can try to make opposite points using the same statistics. So, in the strictest sense (You cant "fake" stats) you are correct. People can, and often do draw incorrect conclusions from those statistics.

PS - I'm not trying to assert the above scenario is the case with the statistics, I'm saying that could be a situation where focusing solely on that data to the exclusion of other considerations might be misleading.


OK, just for giggles lets look up career YPA for a bunch of QB's. Let's see if YPA matters or not. And keep in mind, this is career. Not 1 pass. We have enough data points to make logical conclusions.

Aaron Rodgers- 7.9 YPA
Tom Brady- 7.5 YPA
Drew Brees- 7.5 YPA
Ben Roethlisberger- 7.9 YPA
Russell Wilson- 7.9 YPA

Hmmmmmm..... see any similarities?

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA

Let's look up some low end QB's----

Matt Cassell- 6.5 YPA
Case Keenum- 6.8 YPA
Mike Glennon- 6.4 YPA
David Carr- 6.4 YPA
Mark Sanchez- 6.7 YPA
Ryan Fitxpatrick- 6.7 YPA
Jon Kitna- 6.7 YPA
Trent Dilfer- 6.5 YPA (worst QB to win a SB)

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA

You can't fake CAREER YPA. Like a baseball hitters batting avg. The good players complete a higher percentage of passes for more yardage on average. Sorry guys. :banana:


Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:42 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Rhodes Closed wrote:

Also, I find this whole Teddy vs. Bradford thing silly. I'd gladly take either/or when they get healthy and see their potential grow.



This.

My physical therapist frequently works on NFL and MLB players. He told me Teddy's injury is really an 18 month recovery. He says if he plays sooner, it would mean he's very ahead of schedule. By my count, he's 15 months past his surgery.

We also spoke about Bradford, for whom he is pulling as a Sooner himself. He didn't sound optimistic, based on how he looked in the MNF game and what they are saying about his "bone bruise".

My hope is that Teddy can get himself ready for live, regular season action in a month or so and that Keenum can somehow hold us over until then. If we were really lucky, Bradford's mysterious pain subsides as quickly as it came on. But I see that as most unlikely.


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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Holy crap, dude, but your thinking couldn't be more backwards. The key isn't third down. It's first down.

The average conversion rate for an NFL team on second and 6-or-less is 56%. On second and 7-to-10, it's 27%. On second and more-than-10, drops to 17%. Four yards is the magic number. Gain less than four, and you're not going to make a first down 3 out of 4 times.

Too often last year, the Vikings found themselves in 2nd-and-long because of false starts, holding penalties, sacks and TFLs in the running game. As it was, they ranked a paltry 23rd in the NFL in average gain per first-down play, but those stats don't take penalties into effect. I don't care who the quarterback is, if you shoot yourself in the foot as often as the Vikings did last year, you're not going to have a ton of success on third down.

And sorry, but your rankings of Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater don't really mean much ... especially if you don't back up your rankings with something besides your own opinions and irrelevant correlations.


3 TD games in a row? Two didn't even count. One against the Bears who already packed it in for the season and wanted a higher draft pick. The other was a game where the Vikings were down huge and it was garbage time TD's. i.e.- stat padders. Plus they LOST. Who cares what your stats are when you lose.

Also who cares about TD passes. That is the most meaningless stat. What ACTUALLY matters is does the offense SCORE points. Wether you pass it for 1 yard for a TD or run it in for 1 yard. The QB is getting you there and played a major role in the points on nearly every drive. Even with AP.

Here's a couple things you can't fake. Avg per attempt. Because your 1 yard pass actually hurts you. Lets see how each QB has faired.

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA career

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA career

Dumpford thought he could take 1 yard passes and go to the Superbowl. Yet he has never had a winning season. Never played in a playoff game. Has the worst stats of any QB with 60 plus starts since 2010.

Who scored more points per drive?

Teddy's 2015 Viking offense- 14th in the NFL

Sam's 2016 Vikings offense- 22nd in the NFL

What were their records?

Teddy 2015- 11-5

Sam 2016- 7-8

How was the defense backing them up (PPD)?

2015 Vikings- 12th ranked defense

2016 Vikings- 7th ranked defense

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2016

So not only does Teddy pass for more yards per attempt he ALSO won 4 more games with a WORSE defense!!!

If Bradford was a 2nd round pick he'd never have gotten so many chances. Because his teams always fails, even with a 7th ranked defense, he managed to have a losing record last year.

Sorry dude, the stats don't lie like your opinion. :tongue:

What an earth are you talking about? I said nothing about TD passes. You've gone off the rails.

Let's recap:
• You talked about calling Sam Bradford "Dumpford" (perhaps the stupidest nickname since, I don't know, Spieldope) because he throws short of the chains on third-and-long.
• I gave you statistical proof that first down was far more important to sustaining drives than first down, and that the Vikings were terrible on first down in 2016, leaving them a lot of third-and-long situations.
• Your response was ... TD passes? Yards per attempt?

This is like arguing with a child.

I guess my reaction to your "stats don't lie like your opinion" comment would be, "Your stats have nothing to do with my opinion."

And because I can't resist ... every one of Sam Bradford's sub-7 YPA years came while playing for Jeff Fisher. You know who that is, right? The same coach who almost ran Jared Goff out of football? See, this is about understanding the game a little bit, not just cherry-picking stats that "support" your hatred for a particular player.

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:34 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
FireSpieldope wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Holy crap, dude, but your thinking couldn't be more backwards. The key isn't third down. It's first down.

The average conversion rate for an NFL team on second and 6-or-less is 56%. On second and 7-to-10, it's 27%. On second and more-than-10, drops to 17%. Four yards is the magic number. Gain less than four, and you're not going to make a first down 3 out of 4 times.

Too often last year, the Vikings found themselves in 2nd-and-long because of false starts, holding penalties, sacks and TFLs in the running game. As it was, they ranked a paltry 23rd in the NFL in average gain per first-down play, but those stats don't take penalties into effect. I don't care who the quarterback is, if you shoot yourself in the foot as often as the Vikings did last year, you're not going to have a ton of success on third down.

And sorry, but your rankings of Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater don't really mean much ... especially if you don't back up your rankings with something besides your own opinions and irrelevant correlations.


3 TD games in a row? Two didn't even count. One against the Bears who already packed it in for the season and wanted a higher draft pick. The other was a game where the Vikings were down huge and it was garbage time TD's. i.e.- stat padders. Plus they LOST. Who cares what your stats are when you lose.

Also who cares about TD passes. That is the most meaningless stat. What ACTUALLY matters is does the offense SCORE points. Wether you pass it for 1 yard for a TD or run it in for 1 yard. The QB is getting you there and played a major role in the points on nearly every drive. Even with AP.

Here's a couple things you can't fake. Avg per attempt. Because your 1 yard pass actually hurts you. Lets see how each QB has faired.

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA career

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA career

Dumpford thought he could take 1 yard passes and go to the Superbowl. Yet he has never had a winning season. Never played in a playoff game. Has the worst stats of any QB with 60 plus starts since 2010.

Who scored more points per drive?

Teddy's 2015 Viking offense- 14th in the NFL

Sam's 2016 Vikings offense- 22nd in the NFL

What were their records?

Teddy 2015- 11-5

Sam 2016- 7-8

How was the defense backing them up (PPD)?

2015 Vikings- 12th ranked defense

2016 Vikings- 7th ranked defense

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2016

So not only does Teddy pass for more yards per attempt he ALSO won 4 more games with a WORSE defense!!!

If Bradford was a 2nd round pick he'd never have gotten so many chances. Because his teams always fails, even with a 7th ranked defense, he managed to have a losing record last year.

Sorry dude, the stats don't lie like your opinion. :tongue:

What an earth are you talking about? I said nothing about TD passes. You've gone off the rails.

Let's recap:
• You talked about calling Sam Bradford "Dumpford" (perhaps the stupidest nickname since, I don't know, Spieldope) because he throws short of the chains on third-and-long.
• I gave you statistical proof that first down was far more important to sustaining drives than first down, and that the Vikings were terrible on first down in 2016, leaving them a lot of third-and-long situations.
• Your response was ... TD passes? Yards per attempt?

This is like arguing with a child.

I guess my reaction to your "stats don't lie like your opinion" comment would be, "Your stats have nothing to do with my opinion."

And because I can't resist ... every one of Sam Bradford's sub-7 YPA years came while playing for Jeff Fisher. You know who that is, right? The same coach who almost ran Jared Goff out of football? See, this is about understanding the game a little bit, not just cherry-picking stats that "support" your hatred for a particular player.


The TD bit was responding to Purple Martin.

Get back to me when Bradford has one winning season, which will be never. I'm sorry. If he has the 7th ranked defense backing him up and forcing turnover left and right, yet manages to win 7 games and still lose 8, the guy sucks.

I didn't cherry pick anything, YOU DID. You want to NOW claim that Bradford didn't play for Jeff Fisher, that he didn't exist. Sorry. Stats are stats. If Bradford was good enough he'd be like Steve McNair and make it to the Superbowl with Jeff Fisher. But he's not.

Even his best year is still worse then Teddy's career AVG. Any way you slice it, Teddy has been a superior QB because the stats don't lie. You can't fake it.

Bradford is a 6.6 career YPA guy. Amongst his peers are Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez. Sorry dude. lol


Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:24 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
Statistics are nothing without context, something you seem to miss. Bradford was forced into insurmountable situations thanks to a multitude of problems. Last year it was an offensive line that became crippled halfway through the season AND caused a bevy of penalties. Years before it was innefective coaching from a man who is the equivalent of Les Steckel: grossly inadequate for the task. I would also like to remind you constantly creating non-sequiters and moving the goalposts is ruining any actual argument you may have.


Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:43 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
S197 wrote:
halfgiz wrote:
With Sam Bradford (knee) also on the mend, Rapoport mentioned that the Vikings could be rapidly approaching a Week 10 scenario where Bradford, Bridgewater and interim starter Case Keenum are all healthy at once.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... e-earliest


Umm... yay? That's literally the best scenario we could ask for.


Any more details on this? I doubt it is possible to overstate how important this story is to this promising season.

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:24 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
FireSpieldope wrote:
Actually AP was active for 3 games last year. Not to mention AP was out in 2014 when Teddy was lighting it up as a Rookie. People have short term memories. Actually having AP in the backfield is a hindrance to a passing game. See AP with the Saints.

Also I call Dumpford, Dumpford because nearly every time on 3rd and long he passed to the RB for 1 yard. It was disgusting. He seemed to care more about padding stats then winning the game. Which is why his record was 7-8 with one of the top defenses in the NFL. He had very few INT's because he passed for 1 yard over and over again. The point is to score points and win games. The offense was horrible.

I guess you figure carelessly chucking it downfield into triple coverage for an interception on third-and-18 is better than checking down, flipping field position, and asking one of the best defenses in the NFL to hold the other team. Kinda glad you're not the coach.

The thing is, you glossed right over the most important part -- third and long. That's a situation that happened to the Vikings WAY too much last year. It's also why our offense was horrible. Not because Sam Bradford did the same thing that every quarterback in the NFL does, which is check it down on 3rd-and-18.


Literally exactly what I was about to say! Yeah I know AP was active but AP was also past his prime and banged up. And Teddy "lighting it up" his rookie year?? And you talk about our "memories"?? If my "memory" is correct, he threw 14 TDs and 12 INTs and was 6-7 at the helm that year. When was that ever considered "lighting it up"??

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:32 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Teddy didnt have much of a chance to play before he got injured. He played sooner then I thought he should have too, but we didnt have a choice.

And it took a LOT of QBs more then a few games before hitting their stride. Teddy is still very young and inexperienced. And now a new Oline. He will have his work cut out for him. I believe he was held back too when he got to play, from throwing deeper balls and making audibles. So give the guy a real chance at playing before you say hes trash, and Sam will automatically be better from whatever injury he has now. If Sams really healthy and not limping around and curling up into the fetal position on the field, he should start. If not, its Teddy's time. Its pretty simple. Cause our schedule gets hard after the bye week. and I doubt if anyone has forgot how badly we sucked last year after the bye.


I'm pretty sure 0 people on here said Teddy was trash. Nobody is saying we shouldnt give him a chance either. Nobody is against Teddy. But bottom line is, Sam Bradford is a better QB. Look at the stats, look at his accuracy, look at his deep ball, look at his release, etc. By looking at that stuff you cant sit there and say Teddy is better. It's just not realistic. We all back Teddy and love Teddy but if they were both healthy, you start Sam any day of the week over Teddy.

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:37 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:

Teddy's 2015 Viking offense- 14th in the NFL

Sam's 2016 Vikings offense- 22nd in the NFL



Dude are you really going to be that ignorant by trying to compare that stat above. Teddy had ADRIAN PETERSON behind him who led the league in rushing that year. Sam Bradford had ASIATA and MCKINNON behind him and had a much worse OL. The fact that you're trying to compare that is as laughable as it gets.

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:40 am
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Post Re: Bradfords knee??
FireSpieldope wrote:

OK, just for giggles lets look up career YPA for a bunch of QB's. Let's see if YPA matters or not. And keep in mind, this is career. Not 1 pass. We have enough data points to make logical conclusions.

Aaron Rodgers- 7.9 YPA
Tom Brady- 7.5 YPA
Drew Brees- 7.5 YPA
Ben Roethlisberger- 7.9 YPA
Russell Wilson- 7.9 YPA

Hmmmmmm..... see any similarities?

Teddy Bridgewater- 7.2 YPA

Let's look up some low end QB's----

Matt Cassell- 6.5 YPA
Case Keenum- 6.8 YPA
Mike Glennon- 6.4 YPA
David Carr- 6.4 YPA
Mark Sanchez- 6.7 YPA
Ryan Fitxpatrick- 6.7 YPA
Jon Kitna- 6.7 YPA
Trent Dilfer- 6.5 YPA (worst QB to win a SB)

Sam Bradford- 6.6 YPA

You can't fake CAREER YPA. Like a baseball hitters batting avg. The good players complete a higher percentage of passes for more yardage on average. Sorry guys. :banana:


My god you're like a child. How about looking at Sam Bradford since he's been in Minnesota or even Philly where he actually HAD talented WRs and TEs?? Instead of basing this all off of his Rams years where they had less offensive talent than some college teams. He was averaging about 7.0-7.1 his last 3 years not counting anything in St. Louis. So I could give two s###s what his "career" YPA is when he has consistently been putting out ~7.0 the last 3 years when he had some guys to throw to. So sorry buddy, using stats from his St. Louis years mean nothing. :whistle:

Similar to the fact that Spielman's (or should I say, Spieldope since thats the mature way of going about it) track record in Miami has NOTHING to do with what he is doing now. Were you better at your job your first few years than you are now?? Highly doubtful. You live and you learn pal

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Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:48 am
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