Vikings Message Board.Com

mansquatch wrote:Jim, you cited 10 teams out of 32 if i count the two with TEs. If they were average 16+ teams would have two. Since they do not, they are NOT average. 10 out 32 means they are in the top 1/3 of the league. If you exclude the teams with TE, they are in the 1/4.

I truly give up.

Have a nice summer, folks.

Mothman wrote:Thielen isn't another Jordy Nelson either, at least not yet.

I'm glad you said "not yet," Jim. I think Thielen is just beginning to realize his potential. To me, he's a lot like Nelson -- tall (just a touch shorter than Nelson), faster than he looks (by their combine times, Thielen at 4.45 is actually faster than Nelson's 4.51), and tough. Both are hard workers, and both can get deep. Nelson happens to have an all-world quarterback throwing to him, which certainly helps.

That being said, based on what he's done RIGHT NOW, I would agree that Thielen is average. Not too bad for an undrafted free agent out of Minnesota State.

A person could make an argument that Diggs is above average, since he compiled his stats in only 13 games. However, the knock on Diggs coming out of Maryland was his durability, so that has to be considered.

Add it all up, and I believe the Vikings' receiving corps would probably rate as average. Given the utterly hapless state of our offensive line last year, I'd say that's pretty good. I also believe they have the potential to be above average if the offensive line can get Sam Bradford some time to throw. Add in an 80-catch Kyle Rudolph, and our corps have the potential to be pretty darned good. Of course, that's a big "if."

mansquatch wrote:That gets into the whole who's fault was it thing between Turner/Shurmer/Zimmer etc.

CP's words to me, if taken as truth, would imply that Turner was an impediment. If you take What Zimmer has said about letting Turner run the offense that would add fuel to the fire.

You don't say

Mothman wrote:It's not only fair, it's accurate. Others may not see it this way but I don't think calling an NFL player average is an insult. A player who's in the middle of the pack at his starting position in the NFL is usually a good player.

I very much agree with you about this. An average NFL player is a *great* athlete in today's NFL. It takes talent to even be a 3rd string player on a pro team. Diggs and Thielen are reliable and skilled NFL wide receivers. There is no shame in putting them in the middle of the pack.

Besides, as you and others have pointed out, they're young and could still emerge as elite players in time. Look at what Thielen did last season simply because he was finally given more playing time.

If the Vikings fielded an "average" NFL offense across the board (blocking, passing, running, catching, and coaching), they would be a strong complement for their defense. And the team would get more points and wins, in my view.

losperros wrote: I very much agree with you about this. An average NFL player is a *great* athlete in today's NFL. It takes talent to even be a 3rd string player on a pro team. Diggs and Thielen are reliable and skilled NFL wide receivers. There is no shame in putting them in the middle of the pack.

Besides, as you and others have pointed out, they're young and could still emerge as elite players in time. Look at what Thielen did last season simply because he was finally given more playing time.

If the Vikings fielded an "average" NFL offense across the board (blocking, passing, running, catching, and coaching), they would be a strong complement for their defense. And the team would get more points and wins, in my view.

Exactly.

I've been saying for months now that we don't have to be as good as Dallas along the offensive line. Average offensive line play likely would have landed this team in the playoffs last year.

Take the game against Washington last year. The Vikings put up 20 straight points in the 2nd quarter to take the lead at halftime. But in the second half, the Vikings had four possessions. Two of them ended on failed attempts at 3rd-and-1, while another ended with a sack. That's poor offensive line play in a winnable game in which the Vikings had momentum.

Let's get to average, then think about being stellar.

Thielen's ceiling probably isn't much higher from what we saw of him last season. Realistically, I'd look at him more like a 2b or #3 receiver on a Championship team.

I really don't know how much opposing teams keyed in on Thielen in their game plans, but when Diggs was out he played really well. Result of teams not expecting? I'm not sure and I can't remember if some of the games that Diggs missed if he was ruled out early enough in the week for teams to know Thielen would then be the "#1."

Regardless, Diggs needs to keep getting better and they need Treadwell, Floyd, Adams or somebody else really explode in this offense for them to be considered a high-end unit in my opinion.

I could easily think of 15 Wrs I'd rather have than the ones we have. Diggs is average, the rest below average.

Laserman wrote:I could easily think of 15 Wrs I'd rather have than the ones we have. Diggs is average, the rest below average.

He's already ranked 14th in yds/game. I don't think that's average. IMO, if you put Diggs on a team with a poor defense and a pass first offense and he'd be a top 10 WR. I think he's that good.

I think the wideouts are pretty good and possibly deep depending on how Floyd and Treadwell pan out but I am spoiled by the memory of Moss and Carter. Obviously they don't have wideouts of that caliber right now but they are above average.

Average, above average, it's all relative. Diggs I a decent receiver but he's not a stud, which is what this team needs