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 Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell 
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Post Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
http://www.startribune.com/vikings-pat- ... 414356933/

Quote:
By the time Vikings rookie receiver Laquon Treadwell was up to speed and healthy enough, Sam Bradford and Pat Shurmur had taken full control of the offense.
Treadwell, the 23rd-overall pick in last year’s draft, didn’t earn enough playing time in practice or games to build aconnection with the Vikings’ new quarterback.

“That connection between the quarterback and skill position players is really important,” Shurmur said last week. “And that chemistry is really built in the offseason when you get the chance to slow it down, run the individual routes in the concepts.”


Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:24 am
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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Mothman wrote:
http://www.startribune.com/vikings-pat-shurmur-this-offseason-will-be-critical-for-laquon-treadwell/414356933/

Quote:
By the time Vikings rookie receiver Laquon Treadwell was up to speed and healthy enough, Sam Bradford and Pat Shurmur had taken full control of the offense.
Treadwell, the 23rd-overall pick in last year’s draft, didn’t earn enough playing time in practice or games to build aconnection with the Vikings’ new quarterback.

“That connection between the quarterback and skill position players is really important,” Shurmur said last week. “And that chemistry is really built in the offseason when you get the chance to slow it down, run the individual routes in the concepts.”


If the Viking retain Patterson, I have a hard time seeing Treadwell finding his way onto the field next season. And even if they let Patterson go, he'll have to edge out Wright and Bohringer! ;)

Honestly, I think what they do with Patterson will say a lot about Treadwells future with this team.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
I strongly doubt they'll keep Wright AND Patterson. Most likely Wright is gone in that scenario. Patterson's special teams ability would seem to provide more benefit game to game than Wrights rare snaps on offense.

I still think they were shopping Wright on the trade block by giving him snaps in the last game of the year. We'll see.

Bohringer is on the practice squad. He was and is a a high risk pick. No guarantee he ever sees a regular season snap.


As for Treadwell, the above quote from the article seems to to say it all. Will be interesting to see what he can do in his second season.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
mansquatch wrote:
I strongly doubt they'll keep Wright AND Patterson. Most likely Wright is gone in that scenario. Patterson's special teams ability would seem to provide more benefit game to game than Wrights rare snaps on offense.

I still think they were shopping Wright on the trade block by giving him snaps in the last game of the year. We'll see.

Bohringer is on the practice squad. He was and is a a high risk pick. No guarantee he ever sees a regular season snap.


As for Treadwell, the above quote from the article seems to to say it all. Will be interesting to see what he can do in his second season.


I think they've got a better chance of keeping Wright. I think Patterson is going to be fielding a ton of offers. There are several bigger name WR free agents this year, but they're mostly older. (Vincent jackson, Victor Cruz, Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson, Anquan Boldin, etc). Alshon Jeffery is out there at 27 but he's already got a giant salary.

Patterson has potential and is already a proven threat at kick returner. I think he'll get offered more than the Vikings are willing to pay.

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Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Cliff wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
I strongly doubt they'll keep Wright AND Patterson. Most likely Wright is gone in that scenario. Patterson's special teams ability would seem to provide more benefit game to game than Wrights rare snaps on offense.

I still think they were shopping Wright on the trade block by giving him snaps in the last game of the year. We'll see.

Bohringer is on the practice squad. He was and is a a high risk pick. No guarantee he ever sees a regular season snap.


As for Treadwell, the above quote from the article seems to to say it all. Will be interesting to see what he can do in his second season.


I think they've got a better chance of keeping Wright. I think Patterson is going to be fielding a ton of offers. There are several bigger name WR free agents this year, but they're mostly older. (Vincent jackson, Victor Cruz, Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson, Anquan Boldin, etc). Alshon Jeffery is out there at 27 but he's already got a giant salary.

Patterson has potential and is already a proven threat at kick returner. I think he'll get offered more than the Vikings are willing to pay.


It was interesting to hear Charles Johnson contradict the official narrative and explicitly say that Patterson was basically a goof early in his career and only recently started working like a professional. If that's true, its one of those difficult questions for an organization to gauge. Did Patterson start being professional because he's going to be a free agent, or because the light bulb went on? You'd hate to be the team that get's burned twice by him, but his talent is immense. It will be intersting.

If he goes, will it be Diggs, Wright, or Treadwell who get most of the snaps from the slot?

Personally I like Diggs and Thielen on the outside and hopefully Treadwell in the slot, but if he's not ready, you could be in the market for another WR who either upgrades Wright in the slot or plays outside and shifts Diggs inside.


Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
It was interesting to hear Charles Johnson contradict the official narrative and explicitly say that Patterson was basically a goof early in his career and only recently started working like a professional.


Is this something he said recently?


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Treadwell is a physically best suited to be "Boldin" type receiver who can out physical DBs for the ball. If he can become that kind of guy it would be great for the Vikings. Not sure if that makes him best in the slot our the outside. I suspect he could play both roles.

Diggs has been great, but he has durability concerns. In both of the last two seasons he has missed time due to injuries.

Theilen is shaping up to be a diamond in the rough find which is great.

CP84 seems to give the most bang in the slot, especialy when they can motion him to mess up defensive alignments or create favorable matchups either for him or other WR. There is definitely outside WR talent there, the question is if he can develop the mental game to a point where he can convert that talent into plays on the field.

It really feels like Jarius Wright with his veteran contract is the odd guy out.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
mansquatch wrote:
Treadwell is a physically best suited to be "Boldin" type receiver who can out physical DBs for the ball. If he can become that kind of guy it would be great for the Vikings. Not sure if that makes him best in the slot our the outside. I suspect he could play both roles.


Teams usually want a physical receiver on the outside at split end because the SE has to line up on the line of scrimmage. That might be Treadwell's most logical position. Typically, teams want more speed in the slot.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Vikings are cursed when it comes to drafting QBs and WRs. :|


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
It was interesting to hear Charles Johnson contradict the official narrative and explicitly say that Patterson was basically a goof early in his career and only recently started working like a professional. If that's true, its one of those difficult questions for an organization to gauge. Did Patterson start being professional because he's going to be a free agent, or because the light bulb went on? You'd hate to be the team that get's burned twice by him, but his talent is immense. It will be intersting.

If he goes, will it be Diggs, Wright, or Treadwell who get most of the snaps from the slot?

Personally I like Diggs and Thielen on the outside and hopefully Treadwell in the slot, but if he's not ready, you could be in the market for another WR who either upgrades Wright in the slot or plays outside and shifts Diggs inside.


I hadn't read Johnson saying that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think it's more likely that teams will see a ridiculously physically talented player who is already good (best in the league?) in the return game. Rather than seeing themselves burned, I'm betting at least a few will see it as the Vikings putting in all of the investment and them reaping the benefits.

I could see Thielen in the slot and Treadwell outside. Diggs almost certainly stays on the outside, I think.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
It was interesting to hear Charles Johnson contradict the official narrative and explicitly say that Patterson was basically a goof early in his career and only recently started working like a professional.


Is this something he said recently?


No matter when Johnson said it, I have to question his intent. Maybe he was at least half joking. Patterson's rookie season was far too good for him to have been goofing off. And CP definitely showed his worth last year as a truly versatile player.

I'd rather have Patterson back more than any other Vikings WR, aside from Diggs and Thielen, and more than the older guys in free agency.

The Vikings need to keep both Patterson and Thielen. It won't be cheap but it will be worth it. If they can retain Wright, that's not a bad idea either. He was seriously underplayed last year.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Im very different than most Vikings fans in the fact that I think they should let Patterson walk. I just dont think he will be worth the money he gets. Sure he has potential and he is an amazing kick returner, but he hasnt really shown much as a receiver except for a little bit last year in a contract season. To me it just appears that he is another one of those WRs that we are better off letting go than signing to a big contract. It worked out well for us with Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin.

I also still think the ideal scenario at running back is to get AP to renegotiate. I know he has turned a lot of people off with his injuries and attitude over the past few years, but he is still the most talented RB option. I realize the risk, but if the risk pays off it will go a long way towards winning a Super Bowl next year. I know it is not likely that he gets over his ego and accepts the role we would need him to play, its just that I like taking a risk on him better than any of the other RB options because the potential payoff is the highest.

Sorry if this is off topic from the Treadwell discussion. I think he should take over Cordarelle's spot as the project WR on this team.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
I cannot dissagree more on CP84. His value on ST is tremendous. Plus, unlike Devin Hester, he is a beast both as a gunner and as a returner.

Not sure if you watched the Giants vs. Packers in wild card round this past season, but in that game a major reason the packers won was because they were routinely pinning the Giants' offense behind the 20 yard line due to the latter's utterly putrid return game. The Giant's couldn't get any traction on offense due to having their play selection limited by being so far back in their own zone. Eventually that loss on field position added up and they couldn't crawl out of the hole the Packers put them in. A key to making this happen for GB was having excellent gunners. CP84 is probably the best overall gunner in the league.

ST is tough thing to gauge. Only in it's best moments does it translate to the scoreboard, but it can do other, more subtle things routinely that help a team win. This is even more critical for a team whose strength is it's defense.

CP84's contract is going to be very interesting league wide. He is not a top performer at WR, but he is an elite ST player. He gets used both ways, but in the NFL, the ST stuff typically doesn't get you paid. I suspect that in this case it will get CP paid, but how much?

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
losperros wrote:
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
It was interesting to hear Charles Johnson contradict the official narrative and explicitly say that Patterson was basically a goof early in his career and only recently started working like a professional.


Is this something he said recently?


No matter when Johnson said it, I have to question his intent. Maybe he was at least half joking. Patterson's rookie season was far too good for him to have been goofing off. And CP definitely showed his worth last year as a truly versatile player.

I'd rather have Patterson back more than any other Vikings WR, aside from Diggs and Thielen, and more than the older guys in free agency.

The Vikings need to keep both Patterson and Thielen. It won't be cheap but it will be worth it. If they can retain Wright, that's not a bad idea either. He was seriously underplayed last year.


Agree here.....also scratching my head in regards to Wright barely sniffing the field last year. It's not like he can't play.....I'm not saying he is elite but he could be a solid 3rd or 4th WR.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
I think he didn't play because Thielen and Diggs dominated the depth chart and then he was behind CP84, plus you had Rudolph also gobbling up receptions. CJ also had more equity, at least with Norv. Given the lack of protection we didn't see too many 5 WR play calls either. He was the odd guy out.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Patterson's value at the gunner position is a good point and one I hadn't considered. It will be interesting to see if they can retain him and Thielen. I haven't been a big fan of Wright for a while now so for me personally I don't mind if he moves on.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
S197 wrote:
Patterson's value at the gunner position is a good point and one I hadn't considered. It will be interesting to see if they can retain him and Thielen. I haven't been a big fan of Wright for a while now so for me personally I don't mind if he moves on.


Patterson and Sherels, and Thielen if they keep him on STs, help form one of the best groups of kick/punt coverage teams that I have seen in a long time. Plus, all three can return kicks if needed.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
PurpleMustReign wrote:
S197 wrote:
Patterson's value at the gunner position is a good point and one I hadn't considered. It will be interesting to see if they can retain him and Thielen. I haven't been a big fan of Wright for a while now so for me personally I don't mind if he moves on.


Patterson and Sherels, and Thielen if they keep him on STs, help form one of the best groups of kick/punt coverage teams that I have seen in a long time. Plus, all three can return kicks if needed.


I agree. I think the Vikings return game is as good as it gets in the NFL right now. I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle.

When one considers Patterson as a gunner and returner, his value goes up. He may not be a top receiver but he's a solid #3 or #4 guy, especially after the catch, plus he can run the ball out of the backfield.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
PurpleMustReign wrote:

Patterson and Sherels, and Thielen if they keep him on STs, help form one of the best groups of kick/punt coverage teams that I have seen in a long time. Plus, all three can return kicks if needed.


Lets just not allow Thielen to return any more punts :shock:

I think they should try McKinnon back there if Sherels ever gets hurt. He's got pretty reliable hands and is explosive

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:

Patterson and Sherels, and Thielen if they keep him on STs, help form one of the best groups of kick/punt coverage teams that I have seen in a long time. Plus, all three can return kicks if needed.


Lets just not allow Thielen to return any more punts :shock:

I think they should try McKinnon back there if Sherels ever gets hurt. He's got pretty reliable hands and is explosive

Has Patterson ever returned punts?

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:

Patterson and Sherels, and Thielen if they keep him on STs, help form one of the best groups of kick/punt coverage teams that I have seen in a long time. Plus, all three can return kicks if needed.


Lets just not allow Thielen to return any more punts :shock:

I think they should try McKinnon back there if Sherels ever gets hurt. He's got pretty reliable hands and is explosive

Has Patterson ever returned punts?

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Not in the NFL but I'm sure he could

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
losperros wrote:

I agree. I think the Vikings return game is as good as it gets in the NFL right now. I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle.

When one considers Patterson as a gunner and returner, his value goes up. He may not be a top receiver but he's a solid #3 or #4 guy, especially after the catch, plus he can run the ball out of the backfield.


The problem is, its just not that big a part of the game today, and there is a good likelihood that there won't even be any kicks to return before Patterson's next contract is up.

I think any contract you negotiate with Patterson has to assume that the kick return will be eliminated from the NFL, and therefore you pay him as a WR only. How much is a 3/4 WR worth? Probably not more than a couple million to most teams.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
The night he was drafted, something in his Body Language told me he was not happy being drafted to the Vikings. So his performance last year didn't surprise me. If he starts slow, expect him to be gone asap. (70% sure this was a wasted #1 pick


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Laserman wrote:
The night he was drafted, something in his Body Language told me he was not happy being drafted to the Vikings. So his performance last year didn't surprise me. If he starts slow, expect him to be gone asap. (70% sure this was a wasted #1 pick


And you're basing that 70% partly on body language?? I'm not buying that. If he starts slow they aren't just going to let a guy go midway into his second year. I'm not sure how anyone can say he's a wasted pick with the limited time he got and guys like Thielen and CP coming out of nowhere. You have to understand that when we drafted him we had NOTHING outside of Diggs. Thielen blew up and Patterson was much more involved. That's ultimately going to result in a rookie not getting as much time. Simple as that.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Laserman wrote:
The night he was drafted, something in his Body Language told me he was not happy being drafted to the Vikings. So his performance last year didn't surprise me. If he starts slow, expect him to be gone asap. (70% sure this was a wasted #1 pick


And you're basing that 70% partly on body language?? I'm not buying that. If he starts slow they aren't just going to let a guy go midway into his second year. I'm not sure how anyone can say he's a wasted pick with the limited time he got and guys like Thielen and CP coming out of nowhere. You have to understand that when we drafted him we had NOTHING outside of Diggs. Thielen blew up and Patterson was much more involved. That's ultimately going to result in a rookie not getting as much time. Simple as that.


In the same interview where CJ indicated Patterson was a goof early in his career, Munnerlyn indicated that Treadwell lost some confidence and has a lot of tells in his route running. He also indicated that Mack Alexander has too much confidence.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Laserman wrote:
The night he was drafted, something in his Body Language told me he was not happy being drafted to the Vikings. So his performance last year didn't surprise me. If he starts slow, expect him to be gone asap. (70% sure this was a wasted #1 pick


And you're basing that 70% partly on body language?? I'm not buying that. If he starts slow they aren't just going to let a guy go midway into his second year. I'm not sure how anyone can say he's a wasted pick with the limited time he got and guys like Thielen and CP coming out of nowhere. You have to understand that when we drafted him we had NOTHING outside of Diggs. Thielen blew up and Patterson was much more involved. That's ultimately going to result in a rookie not getting as much time. Simple as that.


In the same interview where CJ indicated Patterson was a goof early in his career, Munnerlyn indicated that Treadwell lost some confidence and has a lot of tells in his route running. He also indicated that Mack Alexander has too much confidence.


So what are you implying?

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Shurmur coached offenses seem much more wide receiver friendly. They are fairly simple offensive schemes to learn, and run.
Turner's was the opposite, very complex and detail oriented. That's why I think Treadwell, and Patterson had so much trouble with the offense.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:

In the same interview where CJ indicated Patterson was a goof early in his career, Munnerlyn indicated that Treadwell lost some confidence and has a lot of tells in his route running. He also indicated that Mack Alexander has too much confidence.


So what are you implying?


Nothing, just take the comments for what they are worth. I thought they added something to the discussion.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
The problem is, its just not that big a part of the game today, and there is a good likelihood that there won't even be any kicks to return before Patterson's next contract is up.

I think any contract you negotiate with Patterson has to assume that the kick return will be eliminated from the NFL, and therefore you pay him as a WR only. How much is a 3/4 WR worth? Probably not more than a couple million to most teams.


Why is the NFL eliminating kick returns? Are they just making things harder for returners? It didn't affect CP last year. Or is the NFL actually doing away with kick returns? Should the NFL continue with kick offs, Patterson is the best returner in the business. And I think the Vikings should be interested in retaining an All-Pro returner.

Just my two cents but I think special teams are a big part of every game.

I don't know how much a 3/4 WR is worth, particularly if he's a good punt gunner (the NFL will be still be punting, right?), is a threat after the catch, and can run effectively out of the backfield.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
losperros wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The problem is, its just not that big a part of the game today, and there is a good likelihood that there won't even be any kicks to return before Patterson's next contract is up.

I think any contract you negotiate with Patterson has to assume that the kick return will be eliminated from the NFL, and therefore you pay him as a WR only. How much is a 3/4 WR worth? Probably not more than a couple million to most teams.


Why is the NFL eliminating kick returns? Are they just making things harder for returners? It didn't affect CP last year. Or is the NFL actually doing away with kick returns? Should the NFL continue with kick offs, Patterson is the best returner in the business. And I think the Vikings should be interested in retaining an All-Pro returner.

Just my two cents but I think special teams are a big part of every game.

I don't know how much a 3/4 WR is worth, particularly if he's a good punt gunner (the NFL will be still be punting, right?), is a threat after the catch, and can run effectively out of the backfield.


CP is a tricky one. In a way I want us to let him go because that gives Treadwell the green light to probably take the other outside spot opposite Thielen and have Diggs run slot. However, I want to keep him because he's probably one of the most dangerous, if not most dangerous players with the ball in his hands in the entire NFL.

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