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 Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think... 
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
I love it when a plan comes together. :smilevike:

I was going on about Clemmings yesterday and then this popped up last night:

https://thevikingage.com/2017/05/29/int ... -part-two/

Interesting that Steussie has offered to help mentor Clemmings. Also just for Cliff, note the Mike Tice connection as Tice coached Steussie back in the day.

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Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:13 am
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
Cliff wrote:
Well sure, but who is that? They've probably spent all they're going to in FA on linemen and the people left in free agency at this point aren't necessarily going to be much better if at all. At least with Clemmings they know they *can* have at least a decent line with him at RT (or one that can generate a league leading rushing game).


... with a Hall of fame-caliber rusher running the ball.

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They know he's got the physical tools and he's already under contract. I'm no Clemmings fan, I can just see why he's still on the team.


Honestly, I do too. My earlier comment was meant to be read sarcastically, not literally. He's on the team because they made an investment in him, because he has good physical tools for the game and because they obviously still believe he can develop into a good player. I thought Nunin expressed a great take on all of this above, from the Vikings apparent lack of commitment to quality depth on the OL to Clemmings, like Ponder, being in a poorly managed situation. He was clearly asked to handle too much too soon and after the way he handled it in 2015, I still think it was foolish for the Vikings to enter last season with him as a primary backup at either tackle position, much less left tackle.


Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:40 am
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
mansquatch wrote:
I love it when a plan comes together. :smilevike:

I was going on about Clemmings yesterday and then this popped up last night:

https://thevikingage.com/2017/05/29/int ... -part-two/

Interesting that Steussie has offered to help mentor Clemmings. Also just for Cliff, note the Mike Tice connection as Tice coached Steussie back in the day.


I loved his description of Randle as "a rolling ball of butcher knives".


Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:44 am
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
Mothman wrote:
I seem to be missing your point. :(


No problem!

My point is that I think the offensive line did have a bit more to do with his performance as Peterson seemingly wasn't able to preform as well with the 2016 line though I know with a 37 attempt sample size it's hard to gauge. It's impossible to know exactly how he would have done as the year went on but it wasn't looking good and the offensive line only got more injured and worse as the year went on.

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Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:50 am
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
Mothman wrote:
Honestly, I do too. My earlier comment was meant to be read sarcastically, not literally. He's on the team because they made an investment in him, because he has good physical tools for the game and because they obviously still believe he can develop into a good player. I thought Nunin expressed a great take on all of this above, from the Vikings apparent lack of commitment to quality depth on the OL to Clemmings, like Ponder, being in a poorly managed situation. He was clearly asked to handle too much too soon and after the way he handled it in 2015, I still think it was foolish for the Vikings to enter last season with him as a primary backup at either tackle position, much less left tackle.


No argument there ... I'm ok with Clemmings being on the team in general I just wish he was further down the depth chart :P

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Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:52 am
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
Cliff wrote:
Mothman wrote:
I seem to be missing your point. :(


No problem!

My point is that I think the offensive line did have a bit more to do with his performance as Peterson seemingly wasn't able to preform as well with the 2016 line though I know with a 37 attempt sample size it's hard to gauge. It's impossible to know exactly how he would have done as the year went on but it wasn't looking good and the offensive line only got more injured and worse as the year went on.



I don't know if they were ever worse (at run blocking) than they were in that first game @TEN (I still have nightmares)! However, I understand your point. I certainly think the OL had something to do with Peterson's performance in 2015. I just think he gained a lot of yardage on his own. Does he alone account for 1000 yard difference? No, but I'll bet a good 400-500 of those yards can be attributed just to the difference between Peterson and Asiata/McKinnon. I think he IS that much better than those two.

Of course, I'm an unapologetic fan of his game too. I've seen better all-around RBs but few who were better pure runners.


Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
Mothman wrote:
Cliff wrote:
Mothman wrote:
I seem to be missing your point. :(


No problem!

My point is that I think the offensive line did have a bit more to do with his performance as Peterson seemingly wasn't able to preform as well with the 2016 line though I know with a 37 attempt sample size it's hard to gauge. It's impossible to know exactly how he would have done as the year went on but it wasn't looking good and the offensive line only got more injured and worse as the year went on.



I don't know if they were ever worse (at run blocking) than they were in that first game @TEN (I still have nightmares)! However, I understand your point. I certainly think the OL had something to do with Peterson's performance in 2015. I just think he gained a lot of yardage on his own. Does he alone account for 1000 yard difference? No, but I'll bet a good 400-500 of those yards can be attributed just to the difference between Peterson and Asiata/McKinnon. I think he IS that much better than those two.

Of course, I'm an unapologetic fan of his game too. I've seen better all-around RBs but few who were better pure runners.


That means 500-600 were do to a better line. So is my 600 number that much of a stretch if we are only epecting 100-200 yards from Murray/Cook vs. 400-500 from AP? Assuming the 2017 OL is = the 2015 OL, a line which included TJ Clemmings at RT... By the way nice catch earlier on my Fusco vs. Johnson boo-boo.

I rag on Clemmings a lot, I know. He deserves it.

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Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
mansquatch wrote:
That means 500-600 were do to a better line.


Maybe, but that assumes my estimate is accurate and we're simplifying things here. There's more to consider. The dynamics of offense are complex and there are other basic stats to consider too. For example, there's an almost 100 rushing attempt difference between 2015 and 2016. That impacted yardage totals too.

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So is my 600 number that much of a stretch if we are only expecting 100-200 yards from Murray/Cook vs. 400-500 from AP?


As I've already said, it's possible.

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Assuming the 2017 OL is = the 2015 OL, a line which included TJ Clemmings at RT... By the way nice catch earlier on my Fusco vs. Johnson boo-boo.


Thanks.

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I rag on Clemmings a lot, I know. He deserves it.


He's been pretty bad.


Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
mansquatch wrote:
I love it when a plan comes together. :smilevike:

I was going on about Clemmings yesterday and then this popped up last night:

https://thevikingage.com/2017/05/29/int ... -part-two/

Interesting that Steussie has offered to help mentor Clemmings. Also just for Cliff, note the Mike Tice connection as Tice coached Steussie back in the day.


Thanks for the link, I found this part particularly good:

Quote:
The other thing is, you make the line calls. I used to give (former Vikings center Jeff Christy) grief all the time because he made all the line calls (and) he was never singled up. He never was one-on-one against anybody. He always had the double team with him.

When you’re the center you can make those judgement calls so (Elflein) can help himself out a little bit if he wants.


The Randle comment is also interesting. The Vikings front 4 on defense is one of the best in the league (actually the best if you go by sacks) so hopefully going up against that sort of talent helps the line, particularly the rookies.


Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
If only to show them "this is what it'll be like on Sundays".

As an aside, I just love how competitive the NFL is. I think it is the biggest reason why the game has become as big as it has.

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Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:27 pm
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Post Re: Offensive Optimism: They might be better than you think
mansquatch wrote:
If only to show them "this is what it'll be like on Sundays".

As an aside, I just love how competitive the NFL is. I think it is the biggest reason why the game has become as big as it has.


I agree. Also the salary cap helps a lot too, you can't just buy wins. Unlike watching the Cavs/Warriors every year or the same MLB teams always at the top.


Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:56 pm
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