What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

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S197
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by S197 » Tue May 02, 2017 1:40 pm

Dakotavike wrote:I guess I'm going to have to go B-for all the reasons already mentioned. Really happy with the first three picks, not sold on Gedeon, hated all the trading down for late rounders, but see potential upside for some of the late round/UDFA's. I mentioned it in another thread but will re-address here. I personally really wanted to see them take Peterman at some point in the draft. But I'm just wondering if they think next year's crop of QB talent is better. If so, they could see how things progress with Teddy this year and draft a QB next year to develop behind Bradford. Just a theory. What do you guys think?
I wanted Peterman as well, he was the most pro ready player in the draft. His ceiling may not be as high as some of the higher picks but he's a good all around QB. You could be right on next year's QB crop being better although I think one of Spielman's clear MO's is to not grab a QB in the draft, which I very much disagree with.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by S197 » Tue May 02, 2017 1:59 pm

Nunin wrote:One of the things I found was a lot more UDFAs starting or providing quality depth. Even more interesting was how the teams that had those types were typically better teams all around, as far as year in and out.
Not just quality depth, but starters as well. Remmers, Thielen, and Sherels were UDFA's. Even late rounders, Stephen was a 7th and was a solid starter after Floyd went down.

I guess this is why I don't mind so many late picks, I think after the first few rounds there's relatively not much that separates players. You can't find late round gems like Chancellor & Richard Sherman, Josh Norman, Antonio Brown, Julian Edelman, Stefon Diggs etc., unless you take shots. It's likely you're going to bust out on a lot of these picks but if you find one solid starter, no less an elite player, it's definitely worth it.

I rather like the strategy of grabbing positions of need early then grabbing a large handful of guys late to fill depth/find a gem.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by Nunin » Tue May 02, 2017 4:15 pm

S197 wrote: Not just quality depth, but starters as well. Remmers, Thielen, and Sherels were UDFA's. Even late rounders, Stephen was a 7th and was a solid starter after Floyd went down.

I guess this is why I don't mind so many late picks, I think after the first few rounds there's relatively not much that separates players. You can't find late round gems like Chancellor & Richard Sherman, Josh Norman, Antonio Brown, Julian Edelman, Stefon Diggs etc., unless you take shots. It's likely you're going to bust out on a lot of these picks but if you find one solid starter, no less an elite player, it's definitely worth it.

I rather like the strategy of grabbing positions of need early then grabbing a large handful of guys late to fill depth/find a gem.
I agree with you about taking shots.
For the record I was speaking specifically to O-line in terms of UDFAs. Pitt and Balt were 2 teams with 4 UDFA OLs on their roster last season.

I really don't have much of a problem with the way they have been drafting outside of QB....my issue is that they seem to struggle in evaluating talent on the o-line. I think the only all-pro OLman they've had since the Green/Tice era was Kalil's rookie season. Kalil was a pick I could've and would've made just based on the sheer desperation created when they cut McKinnie.

It's been a huge issue since the Wilfs took over and Birk walked. Hopeful that they are getting the ship righted there.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by VikingLord » Tue May 02, 2017 8:12 pm

Dakotavike wrote:I guess I'm going to have to go B-for all the reasons already mentioned. Really happy with the first three picks, not sold on Gedeon, hated all the trading down for late rounders, but see potential upside for some of the late round/UDFA's. I mentioned it in another thread but will re-address here. I personally really wanted to see them take Peterman at some point in the draft. But I'm just wondering if they think next year's crop of QB talent is better. If so, they could see how things progress with Teddy this year and draft a QB next year to develop behind Bradford. Just a theory. What do you guys think?
As reasonable a theory as any at this point.

I'm not convinced at all that Bridgewater remains part of the long-term plan. As much as I like the guy and hoped he could develop into the long-term starter at that position, knee dislocations on simple drop backs in practice just don't happen, and to me indicate Bridgewater may have physical issues that go well beyond that particular injury. Even if he does recover from it and were deemed capable of playing at the pro level again, every time I watched him drop back to pass I would cringe. Every time he got hit I would wonder if he's going to get back up. Rick might try to hold on to hope and maybe it was just a freak accident and he can fully recover, but *banking* on the dude in any way over the longer term is risky business.

Bradford, on the other hand, merits investment on the part of the Vikings. They paid a 1st to get him, he performed well, he's a capable QB in the prime of his career. If Spielman thinks he can go back to the well next offseason and find himself a franchise rookie that's great, but in the meantime locking Bradford up for the foreseeable future makes a lot of sense.

Honestly, I'm not nearly as worried about QB on this team as I am the offensive line, especially depth on the offensive line. Spielman could have the best QB, RB, and WR in the NFL, but if the line can't get it done, it won't matter. While targeting a QB early in next year's draft might make sense, I'm really hoping Spielman puts himself in a position where he can play all of his cards and shore up that offensive line if the right player is there.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by PacificNorseWest » Tue May 02, 2017 9:29 pm

B-

It's hard for me to go higher given that they didn't have a 1st round pick, but I think they executed well and didn't give away much. Cook is the kind of game-breaking talent that can make this draft memorable in its own right, but I think the majority of the rest of their draft produces surprising NFL long-hauls and quality depth.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by Dakotavike » Wed May 03, 2017 12:00 pm

VikingLord wrote: As reasonable a theory as any at this point.

I'm not convinced at all that Bridgewater remains part of the long-term plan. As much as I like the guy and hoped he could develop into the long-term starter at that position, knee dislocations on simple drop backs in practice just don't happen, and to me indicate Bridgewater may have physical issues that go well beyond that particular injury. Even if he does recover from it and were deemed capable of playing at the pro level again, every time I watched him drop back to pass I would cringe. Every time he got hit I would wonder if he's going to get back up. Rick might try to hold on to hope and maybe it was just a freak accident and he can fully recover, but *banking* on the dude in any way over the longer term is risky business.

Bradford, on the other hand, merits investment on the part of the Vikings. They paid a 1st to get him, he performed well, he's a capable QB in the prime of his career. If Spielman thinks he can go back to the well next offseason and find himself a franchise rookie that's great, but in the meantime locking Bradford up for the foreseeable future makes a lot of sense.

Honestly, I'm not nearly as worried about QB on this team as I am the offensive line, especially depth on the offensive line. Spielman could have the best QB, RB, and WR in the NFL, but if the line can't get it done, it won't matter. While targeting a QB early in next year's draft might make sense, I'm really hoping Spielman puts himself in a position where he can play all of his cards and shore up that offensive line if the right player is there.
Totally agree VikingLord.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by dead_poet » Wed May 03, 2017 1:31 pm

VikingLord wrote: I'm not convinced at all that Bridgewater remains part of the long-term plan. As much as I like the guy and hoped he could develop into the long-term starter at that position, knee dislocations on simple drop backs in practice just don't happen, and to me indicate Bridgewater may have physical issues that go well beyond that particular injury. Even if he does recover from it and were deemed capable of playing at the pro level again, every time I watched him drop back to pass I would cringe. Every time he got hit I would wonder if he's going to get back up. Rick might try to hold on to hope and maybe it was just a freak accident and he can fully recover, but *banking* on the dude in any way over the longer term is risky business.
As you mentioned, it really COULD be a freak accident. They happen all the time and aren't necessarily indicative of some kind of pre-existing fragility. I mean, Sam is only listed as two inches taller and nine pounds heavier. And he's had a much longer injury history than Teddy to this point. In truth, ANY QB not named Newton or Big Been has a good chance of being injured when sacked by a 300-pound angry dude.
Bradford, on the other hand, merits investment on the part of the Vikings. They paid a 1st to get him, he performed well, he's a capable QB in the prime of his career.
Depending on how you define "well", this analysis can also apply to Teddy. I truly believe last year Teddy was primed to "break out."
If Spielman thinks he can go back to the well next offseason and find himself a franchise rookie that's great, but in the meantime locking Bradford up for the foreseeable future makes a lot of sense.
I highly doubt that happens. Bradford and Bridgewater both represent possible "franchise" guys (if healthy). He wouldn't go with Mystery Rookie. The decision on a long-term starter depends a TON on Sam's year AND Teddy's recovery. I can see Sam being extended, Teddy staying on in '18 (per his tolled contract) and the Vikings trying to extend Teddy on a short-term, team-friendly deal while also shopping him around. Of course, they'd have to probably take less-than-market value given the injury and time off the field. It's not inconceivable the opposite occurs (Rick trading Sam prior to the '18 season) but that would take some steel balls from Rick and a signed clean bill of health from Sugarman (in blood). I just find this the least likely TODAY. Ideally, they're both on the team long-term and Jim finally gets the two solid QB depth chart he's always wanted.
Honestly, I'm not nearly as worried about QB on this team as I am the offensive line, especially depth on the offensive line. Spielman could have the best QB, RB, and WR in the NFL, but if the line can't get it done, it won't matter. While targeting a QB early in next year's draft might make sense, I'm really hoping Spielman puts himself in a position where he can play all of his cards and shore up that offensive line if the right player is there.
Agreed.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by SidestreamFB Pete » Mon May 08, 2017 8:47 pm

You guys are being harsh haha! It was a solid draft. We followed through with our offseason plan of improving the run-game. With Cook at RB and Eflein to plug and play at OG or C. With the addition of Remmers and Reiff (suspect pass-blockers, but good run-blockers) I think we can go from 32nd ranked run offense to around 10th-15th.

After them we used the picks functionally, it's not like we were going to grab a starting tackle in the fourth-round, though a project player would have been good where we took Gedeon...

But Isadora can add some depth on the line and develop into a starting gaurd, and we addressed our lack of WR depth in the later rounds with high-upside guys.

Like I said, aside from the Gedeon pick I think they did a good job. And even Gedeon, to me, projects like a solid Gerald Hodges-esque run-stuffer. He's slow, but he has good instincts, lateral ability, and is not afraid to lay the wood.

EDIT: Oh ya! And Johnson will be a immediate rotational player for passing downs. He has the raw athleticism to be a starter in a year or two, especially if Linval shows him how to hit the weights.

As for the grade, not going to plug my website too hard in these forums :p but, I got total draft grades and power rankings up - check my sig.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by losperros » Tue May 09, 2017 10:09 am

VikingLord wrote:Honestly, I'm not nearly as worried about QB on this team as I am the offensive line, especially depth on the offensive line. Spielman could have the best QB, RB, and WR in the NFL, but if the line can't get it done, it won't matter. While targeting a QB early in next year's draft might make sense, I'm really hoping Spielman puts himself in a position where he can play all of his cards and shore up that offensive line if the right player is there.
I couldn't agree more, Edward. My biggest concern is the OL, including the all the starters and the depth.

As for a draft grade, I'll go with a C. I'll bump that up to a B- if Bradford is included as a R1 pick.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by SidestreamFB Pete » Tue May 09, 2017 10:18 am

losperros wrote: I couldn't agree more, Edward. My biggest concern is the OL, including the all the starters and the depth.

As for a draft grade, I'll go with a C. I'll bump that up to a B- if Bradford is included as a R1 pick.


Other than the Gedeon pick which players would you have preferred to take o line instead. Instead of Davin in the 2nd? Instead of Johnson in the 4th? Cause Johnson will play.

Remember we got TJ Clemmings in the 4th, and people thought THAT was a steal. And that was a stronger tackle class haha.

Can't knock Rick because there weren't any good tackles born 20-23 years ago.
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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

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Re: What grade would you give this draft for the Vikings?

Post by Rock45 » Sun May 28, 2017 4:08 am

YikesVikes wrote: The Vikes only choice is to wait and not to play Teddy. Keep him on PUP and get his contract extended for another year with the rollover clause. You would then have him for 2 years (2018 rollover year and 2019 5th but really a *6th* year option). This way you can tag Sam if you want to at the end of 2017 or let him walk if Teddy is full strength.
What a hard decision to have to make. I think you have to cut Teddy at this point. A decision that will make everyone sick.
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