2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

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fiestavike
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by fiestavike » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:22 am

Mothman wrote:
I think it simply implies a different view of the team. Remember, not all of us think the Vikings slide last year was simply attributable to poor OL or tackle play. I certainly don't believe that. The defense wasn't the same unit after the bye week. The passing game had other issues.
How would you explain the defensive decline after the bye week?
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by autobon7 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:27 am

Mothman wrote: I think it simply implies a different view of the team. Remember, not all of us think the Vikings slide last year was simply attributable to poor OL or tackle play. I certainly don't believe that. The defense wasn't the same unit after the bye week. The passing game had other issues.

I don't think Goessling's take is sillier than any other prediction of how the entire schedule will play out at this point. It's obviously early so when you get right down to it, the exercise is silly on it's surface. However, it looks to me like the Vikes are steering a straight course into continued mediocrity. Barring a Rookie of the Year-like impact from someone they draft or the unexpected emergence of someone on offense into a star, I expect them to finish somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7.

I tend to agree with you Jim......plus the Viks have not matured into a consistently good team. We have seen them be very good then lose games they are not supposed to lose. Good teams rise to the occasion 75% of the time (random feel good number). Can the Viks take that next step??? Hopefully it will be a fruitful draft concentrating on OL DT LB RB
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by fiestavike » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:40 am

autobon7 wrote: Hopefully it will be a fruitful draft concentrating on OL DT LB RB
I think they have 2.5 holes on defense. They really need a 3 tech who can be effective against the run (Maybe Dalvin Tomlinson could fulfil both those roles?) and they really need an OLB who isn't a total liability in the passing game. Its possible that role could be filled by a hybrid S. Sendejo is competent at this point, but an upgrade at S to slam the door on the deep passing game and this defense COULD be elite.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by Mothman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:25 am

fiestavike wrote:How would you explain the defensive decline after the bye week?
I don't think there's a singular explanation. Some of it was due to matchups that worked against them. Some of it was strategic. Smith's injury definitely hurt them against Indy. Fatigue and frustration were probably factors at times too, when the offense could't provide decent support. It was a variety of factors but overall, they just didn't play well for a lot of that stretch. They had their moments. For example, the defense had a very strong game against Dallas but overall, after the bye, there were too many breakdowns (missed tackles, blown coverages, etc.).

A couple of examples:

They clearly didn't match up well with the Bears running game. Howard gashed them for about 280 yards rushing in 2 games. Fortunately, in the second game, the Bears were starting a QB who couldn't stop turning the ball over.

The Colts took advantage of Smith's absence by keeping the Vikes in base personnel and attacking the middle of the field. With Smith out, the Vikes remaining LBs and safeties couldn't handle it.

Your second post touched on a few key issues. Their run defense needs work and their LBs (and safeties not named Smith) can be exploited in pass coverage. Teams well-equipped to attack them in one or both areas seem able to do real damage, especially when the pass rush falters.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by Mothman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:27 am

autobon7 wrote:I tend to agree with you Jim......plus the Viks have not matured into a consistently good team. We have seen them be very good then lose games they are not supposed to lose. Good teams rise to the occasion 75% of the time (random feel good number). Can the Viks take that next step??? Hopefully it will be a fruitful draft concentrating on OL DT LB RB
Fingers crossed!
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:47 pm

They had some injuries too. Oddly, the decline began when Sendajo got hurt. Didn't Kendrick miss a game too?

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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by akvikingsfan » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:14 pm

RFIP wrote: I got 3 Prime time games. The London game is in the morning.
Oh correct. I missed that, just saw that it was on NFLN and assumed prime time. Thanks.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:44 pm

Mothman wrote:I see yours too and it may surprise you to learn the view you expressed above isn't much different than mine. I agree: they lost several games that could have gone the other way. Had they won them, they could have returned to the playoffs but as we both know, they didn't win them. They ended up 8-8. They've had many seasons where they lost close games and missed the playoffs when a few of those games could have put them in the postseason but that's what mediocre teams do: they hover near the middle. It sounds harsh but it's the truth. Sometimes enough goes right for them to get to the wild card round. Sometimes enough goes wrong that they end up with a losing season or at .500 but most of the time, they're playing within that range.

I seem to come at the same information from a different angle than many Vikes fans here and I sometimes wonder if that creates the illusion of more disagreement than actually exists.Once the results are in the books I tend to focus on those established outcomes much more than the wouldas, couldas and shouldas. I got tired of moral victories for the Vikings a long time ago.
Totally understand your point. Results are what matter. But the journey to the result suggests what needs to happen to get better.

The point that mansquatch, myself and some others are making is that the consistent problem -- with the notable exceptions of the losses to Indy and Green Bay, where the defense fell apart -- was the offense. Specifically the offensive line. So if the most pressing problem is the offense, then any upgrades to the offense are reasons for optimism, at least to me and a few others. The offensive line IS upgraded, even if the upgrades aren't all-pro players. The running back position, as compared to last year, is improved. We lost Patterson, which won't likely be a huge loss in production, even if it's a loss in potential.

Yes, the defense played poorly at times, but they were excellent in both losses to Detroit and the loss to Dallas. They also were excellent early against Philly and gave the Vikings great field position time after time, which the offense repeatedly squandered. It happened all too often that the offense left the defense in extremely difficult positions. That takes a toll after awhile, and I think they wore down by the last 4 games. Maybe that's unacceptable, and I could live with that opinion. But at some point, after carrying the team for most of the year, they were bound to break. If anything was unsustainable, it was that.

Get better on offense, and I believe this team has a chance to contend. I believed it last year, and I'll continue to believe it this year. Of course, we can speculate until the cows come home as to whether the offense will actually improve, but until they prove it on the field, they're an 8-8 team.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by jackal » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:00 pm

I think by far our OL either makes us and sets up for another
chance at real success or we become a slightly than better than
average team. If we can run the ball and have some level of
pass protection I honestly believe we have a shot. Our defense
is very good(and yes they fell apart two games last season but
defense and special teams won us several games two. I like
Reiff and have a few doubts on Remmers (sp) but we finally
dumped Khalil and they have to better than Clemmings.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by RFIP » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:01 am

jackal wrote:I think by far our OL either makes us and sets up for another
chance at real success or we become a slightly than better than
average team. If we can run the ball and have some level of
pass protection I honestly believe we have a shot. Our defense
is very good(and yes they fell apart two games last season but
defense and special teams won us several games two. I like
Reiff and have a few doubts on Remmers (sp) but we finally
dumped Khalil and they have to better than Clemmings.

This defense is built on speed and ability to rush the passer, mostly with 4 guys. If the offense improves like I believe it will, this D will hunt. They are not currently constructed with run stuffers especially with the Floyd situation, thus teams learned to play keep away and field position in the second 1/2 of last year.

Let the O improve and this D WILL take it from there.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by Mothman » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:07 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Totally understand your point. Results are what matter. But the journey to the result suggests what needs to happen to get better.

The point that mansquatch, myself and some others are making is that the consistent problem -- with the notable exceptions of the losses to Indy and Green Bay, where the defense fell apart -- was the offense. Specifically the offensive line. So if the most pressing problem is the offense, then any upgrades to the offense are reasons for optimism, at least to me and a few others. The offensive line IS upgraded, even if the upgrades aren't all-pro players. The running back position, as compared to last year, is improved. We lost Patterson, which won't likely be a huge loss in production, even if it's a loss in potential.

Yes, the defense played poorly at times, but they were excellent in both losses to Detroit and the loss to Dallas. They also were excellent early against Philly and gave the Vikings great field position time after time, which the offense repeatedly squandered. It happened all too often that the offense left the defense in extremely difficult positions. That takes a toll after awhile, and I think they wore down by the last 4 games. Maybe that's unacceptable, and I could live with that opinion. But at some point, after carrying the team for most of the year, they were bound to break. If anything was unsustainable, it was that.

Get better on offense, and I believe this team has a chance to contend. I believed it last year, and I'll continue to believe it this year. Of course, we can speculate until the cows come home as to whether the offense will actually improve, but until they prove it on the field, they're an 8-8 team.
You've touched on a few areas where my perceptions and yours, mansquatch's and others don't align. I agree that the offense has been the most pressing problem but we disagree in regard to the defense. Their worst performances were against Green Bay and Indy but I wouldn't characterize their performances in either Detroit game as excellent. They collapsed and gave up leads very late in both games, which is not indicative of excellence (at least not to me). As I pointed out in a post above, over the course of 2 games against Chicago, Jordan Howard gashed them for over 280 yards. That's a problem and it led to another key loss within the division. They allowed The Redskins to rush for well over 100 yards too. They gave up 20+ points in 5 straight games after the bye. That's certainly not awful on it's surface but when both the strategy and expectation seem to be for them to hold teams to less than that, it's problematic. In other words, when I look at last season's "journey to the results" and consider what the team needs to do to get better, I see a need for improvement on offense and defense. The defense has been too vulnerable to power running games and has allowed too many blowouts over the past few years. That needs to change as surely as the offense needs to improve and score more points. Either that or the offense needs to get a LOT better.
Get better on offense, and I believe this team has a chance to contend. I believed it last year, and I'll continue to believe it this year. Of course, we can speculate until the cows come home as to whether the offense will actually improve, but until they prove it on the field, they're an 8-8 team.
I agree. I've never been on the opposite side of the argument that upgrading the offense could give them a chance to contend but I think those upgrades may need to be more significant than those they've made so far this offseason, at least if we're talking about contending for more than another one-and-done playoff appearance. Let's see what the draft brings... I hope its not Mixon.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by Hunter Morrow » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:53 pm

This one looks pretty rough. There are a lot of teams that could be quite good this upcoming year as the "easy games."

The divisional games at the end all look tough to me.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by MikethePurple » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:22 pm

I'm bummed that they will not be having a home game around Christmas again this year. I figured since they were away last year, they'd be home this year. Was really hoping I'd get to see a game in the stadium. At least we got to sneak on to a last minute tour of the stadium last Christmastime so I got to see the inside. I guess always next year.....
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by S197 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:07 pm

Looks like I'll be at the home opener again this year. Anyone want to meet up, shoot me a PM. Will be bitter sweet if AD ends up signing with the Saints.
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Re: 2017 Vikings Schedule!! Turkey Day AGAIN at Detroit!

Post by mansquatch » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:26 pm

Mothman wrote: You've touched on a few areas where my perceptions and yours, mansquatch's and others don't align. I agree that the offense has been the most pressing problem but we disagree in regard to the defense. Their worst performances were against Green Bay and Indy but I wouldn't characterize their performances in either Detroit game as excellent. They collapsed and gave up leads very late in both games, which is not indicative of excellence (at least not to me). As I pointed out in a post above, over the course of 2 games against Chicago, Jordan Howard gashed them for over 280 yards. That's a problem and it led to another key loss within the division. They allowed The Redskins to rush for well over 100 yards too. They gave up 20+ points in 5 straight games after the bye. That's certainly not awful on it's surface but when both the strategy and expectation seem to be for them to hold teams to less than that, it's problematic. In other words, when I look at last season's "journey to the results" and consider what the team needs to do to get better, I see a need for improvement on offense and defense. The defense has been too vulnerable to power running games and has allowed too many blowouts over the past few years. That needs to change as surely as the offense needs to improve and score more points. Either that or the offense needs to get a LOT better.
I dunno Jim, in the case of each of the games Kapp mentioned the Offense basically gave us nothing with constant blown possessions and three and outs. (The WSH game is another example.) In each of these cases had the offense sustained even one additional drive, then the TOP would have changed and the defense would likely not have had the opportunity to collapse late as it did in each of those games.

That is five games that easily could have been wins had the offense visited the red zone even one more time. Let alone the middle of the season where they failed to punch into on multiple occaisions from 1st and goal on the 1 yard line.

I think they could add Aaron Donald and they'd still probably lose at least half those games with the 2016 offense.
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