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 Try and be Positive..... 
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Post Try and be Positive.....
SO........being a cynic in a world that seems to love to encourage that tendency.....being an eternal Viking fan, and Cubbies fan (wooo hooo excellence IS possible after decades of failure!).....I need a string of comments pointing out exciting, optimistic factors that are in place for the 2017 Vikings season...

Come on folks.....tell me what am I missing. Brighten up my Spring! And the new stadiou doesnt count, I want real football facts/talent, etc.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different. The Vikings front four were league leaders in sacks.

The team did pretty well against playoff teams, beating the Packers, Giants, and Texans. The last two in rather dominant fashion. They were a two point conversion away from tying Dallas and they should have beat Detroit had Walsh not screwed up. Twice.

Sam Bradford had one of the highest completion %'s in NFL history. Shurmur at OC provides stability that Bradford has never had in his career.

We also saw some pretty big strides from some late round/UDFA picks. The emergence of Adam Thielen vaulted "Mr. Mankato" to a near 1,000 yard season. Shamar Stephen did a very good job stepping in for Floyd, particularly against the run. Andrew Sendejo was noticeably improved this year.

The Vikings have 5 draft picks in the first 4 rounds despite losing their 1st.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Now this is my kind of thread!

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Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different. The Vikings front four were league leaders in sacks.

The team did pretty well against playoff teams, beating the Packers, Giants, and Texans. The last two in rather dominant fashion. They were a two point conversion away from tying Dallas and they should have beat Detroit had Walsh not screwed up. Twice.

Sam Bradford had one of the highest completion %'s in NFL history. Shurmur at OC provides stability that Bradford has never had in his career.

We also saw some pretty big strides from some late round/UDFA picks. The emergence of Adam Thielen vaulted "Mr. Mankato" to a near 1,000 yard season. Shamar Stephen did a very good job stepping in for Floyd, particularly against the run. Andrew Sendejo was noticeably improved this year.

The Vikings have 5 draft picks in the first 4 rounds despite losing their 1st.

Nice post.
To add to that, we signed a couple of offensive lineman that are definitely an upgrade. Draft is two weeks away and one more day for the Vikings since there is no 1st round pick. But the bright side to that is very unlikely that Spielman will move up to draft a WR. :beerock:
Signed a RB as well, that just might be a good fit. :govikes:

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Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
CbusVikesFan wrote:
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different. The Vikings front four were league leaders in sacks.

The team did pretty well against playoff teams, beating the Packers, Giants, and Texans. The last two in rather dominant fashion. They were a two point conversion away from tying Dallas and they should have beat Detroit had Walsh not screwed up. Twice.

Sam Bradford had one of the highest completion %'s in NFL history. Shurmur at OC provides stability that Bradford has never had in his career.

We also saw some pretty big strides from some late round/UDFA picks. The emergence of Adam Thielen vaulted "Mr. Mankato" to a near 1,000 yard season. Shamar Stephen did a very good job stepping in for Floyd, particularly against the run. Andrew Sendejo was noticeably improved this year.

The Vikings have 5 draft picks in the first 4 rounds despite losing their 1st.

Nice post.
To add to that, we signed a couple of offensive lineman that are definitely an upgrade. Draft is two weeks away and one more day for the Vikings since there is no 1st round pick. But the bright side to that is very unlikely that Spielman will move up to draft a WR. :beerock:
Signed a RB as well, that just might be a good fit. :govikes:


Agreed. I see the defense continuing to be solid and looks like we're on our way to improving this offense. Can't wait for the draft. My favorite time of year

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Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different. The Vikings front four were league leaders in sacks.

The team did pretty well against playoff teams, beating the Packers, Giants, and Texans. The last two in rather dominant fashion. They were a two point conversion away from tying Dallas and they should have beat Detroit had Walsh not screwed up. Twice.

Sam Bradford had one of the highest completion %'s in NFL history. Shurmur at OC provides stability that Bradford has never had in his career.

We also saw some pretty big strides from some late round/UDFA picks. The emergence of Adam Thielen vaulted "Mr. Mankato" to a near 1,000 yard season. Shamar Stephen did a very good job stepping in for Floyd, particularly against the run. Andrew Sendejo was noticeably improved this year.

The Vikings have 5 draft picks in the first 4 rounds despite losing their 1st.


Very nice post: convincing and objective. I kind of feel like I need a shot in the arm too, which is odd since the draft is nearly here.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different.


:confused: I'm not sure what you're referring to above. Their points allowed per game was one of the better marks in team history so that IS a positive but they've done better in that department at least 6 or 7 times since 1975.

Sorry, I don't mean to distract from the thread. I just don't understand the reference.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:45 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different.


:confused: I'm not sure what you're referring to above. Their points allowed per game was one of the better marks in team history so that IS a positive but they've done better in that department at least 6 or 7 times since 1975.

Sorry, I don't mean to distract from the thread. I just don't understand the reference.


Sorry I was just rattling stuff off the top of my head. I was referring to this:

Quote:
According to a metric created by Pro Football Reference, the 2016 Vikings are seventh best in franchise history in points allowed below league average. All six of the team’s best defenses in this stat, which makes it easier to factor in era, came between 1969 and 1975. The Vikings are allowing 5.3 points per game less than the NFL average, up from 4.7 last season, which ranks eighth in the team’s history.


http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2016/12/vikings-defense-ranking-among-best-franchise-history/

I thought it was just points allowed but it looks like it was a PFF metric. Also the article was from early December, a few games before the end of the season so it may have moved some.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:16 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
CbusVikesFan wrote:
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different. The Vikings front four were league leaders in sacks.

The team did pretty well against playoff teams, beating the Packers, Giants, and Texans. The last two in rather dominant fashion. They were a two point conversion away from tying Dallas and they should have beat Detroit had Walsh not screwed up. Twice.

Sam Bradford had one of the highest completion %'s in NFL history. Shurmur at OC provides stability that Bradford has never had in his career.

We also saw some pretty big strides from some late round/UDFA picks. The emergence of Adam Thielen vaulted "Mr. Mankato" to a near 1,000 yard season. Shamar Stephen did a very good job stepping in for Floyd, particularly against the run. Andrew Sendejo was noticeably improved this year.

The Vikings have 5 draft picks in the first 4 rounds despite losing their 1st.

Nice post.
To add to that, we signed a couple of offensive lineman that are definitely an upgrade. Draft is two weeks away and one more day for the Vikings since there is no 1st round pick. But the bright side to that is very unlikely that Spielman will move up to draft a WR. :beerock:
Signed a RB as well, that just might be a good fit. :govikes:


Definitely good additions. I was talking to a co-worker and he mentioned that the Raiders were employing a really strict RB committee. Basically the snaps were split evenly amongst the 3 RBs. I didn't watch many Raider games but if this were true, I would think it would be hard for any RB to get in a rhythm with a reverse "Randy ratio." Even greats like AD take time to spool up. That makes me a little more bullish on Murray if he was able to produce under that scenario. The fact that he can pass block and catch out of the backfield are also big pluses. Seems like the only big knock is he doesn't play up to his size but maybe that's the ratio thing. Hopefully? lol.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:45 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
S197 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different.


:confused: I'm not sure what you're referring to above. Their points allowed per game was one of the better marks in team history so that IS a positive but they've done better in that department at least 6 or 7 times since 1975.

Sorry, I don't mean to distract from the thread. I just don't understand the reference.


Sorry I was just rattling stuff off the top of my head. I was referring to this:

Quote:
According to a metric created by Pro Football Reference, the 2016 Vikings are seventh best in franchise history in points allowed below league average. All six of the team’s best defenses in this stat, which makes it easier to factor in era, came between 1969 and 1975. The Vikings are allowing 5.3 points per game less than the NFL average, up from 4.7 last season, which ranks eighth in the team’s history.


http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2016/12/vikings-defense-ranking-among-best-franchise-history/

I thought it was just points allowed but it looks like it was a PFF metric. Also the article was from early December, a few games before the end of the season so it may have moved some.


Thanks for the clarification. I was confused because they had some defenses in the late '80s and early '90s that did quite a bit better in terms of points allowed per game.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread. :)


Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
I was depressed yesterday when I read some article stating the Vikings were not only picked 4th in the North but 15th out of all 16 teams (SF) in the NFC which to me is insane.

I want badly to see Treadwell emerge which will give this offense a dynamic look, and I do believe they come out of this draft with a burner at wr and a TE who is a serious weapon.

I have faith in Zimmer to get the D back where they need to be from game 1 through 16+ and I believe Murray is going to have a very big year.

Some here (most perhaps) won;t like this but I "think" Mixon is coming to a back field near you too. Kids a stud on the field, that's all I'll say.

And Bradford is going to have a HUGE year...there are those who point to never having a winning record but the true football folks understand the hands he's been dealt. He. Is. Ready.

BRING ON THE DRAFT!


Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:56 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
The defense is good enough to be the foundation of the team. There are only 5-6 critical positions on the team without an identified legitimate starter. At the start of Zimmer's tenure there were 16 by my count. The team is becoming more talented. There are also a number of players who are quite young and still developing.

This is my main argument for optimism.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:53 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
RFIP wrote:
I was depressed yesterday when I read some article stating the Vikings were not only picked 4th in the North but 15th out of all 16 teams (SF) in the NFC which to me is insane.

I want badly to see Treadwell emerge which will give this offense a dynamic look, and I do believe they come out of this draft with a burner at wr and a TE who is a serious weapon.

I have faith in Zimmer to get the D back where they need to be from game 1 through 16+ and I believe Murray is going to have a very big year.

Some here (most perhaps) won;t like this but I "think" Mixon is coming to a back field near you too. Kids a stud on the field, that's all I'll say.

And Bradford is going to have a HUGE year...there are those who point to never having a winning record but the true football folks understand the hands he's been dealt. He. Is. Ready.

BRING ON THE DRAFT!


Lol what article was that?

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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
RFIP wrote:
I was depressed yesterday when I read some article stating the Vikings were not only picked 4th in the North but 15th out of all 16 teams (SF) in the NFC which to me is insane.

I want badly to see Treadwell emerge which will give this offense a dynamic look, and I do believe they come out of this draft with a burner at wr and a TE who is a serious weapon.

I have faith in Zimmer to get the D back where they need to be from game 1 through 16+ and I believe Murray is going to have a very big year.

Some here (most perhaps) won;t like this but I "think" Mixon is coming to a back field near you too. Kids a stud on the field, that's all I'll say.

And Bradford is going to have a HUGE year...there are those who point to never having a winning record but the true football folks understand the hands he's been dealt. He. Is. Ready.

BRING ON THE DRAFT!


Lol what article was that?



I'm guessing he's talking about a recent ESPN Insider article about Football Outsiders annual preliminary analysis of the upcoming season or one of the articles about it, like this one. There are all sorts of caveats involved since it's before the draft and well before the preseason and regular season.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:05 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
If Zim doesn't get him a worthy Oline that's about it.

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Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
RFIP wrote:
I was depressed yesterday when I read some article stating the Vikings were not only picked 4th in the North but 15th out of all 16 teams (SF) in the NFC which to me is insane.

I want badly to see Treadwell emerge which will give this offense a dynamic look, and I do believe they come out of this draft with a burner at wr and a TE who is a serious weapon.

I have faith in Zimmer to get the D back where they need to be from game 1 through 16+ and I believe Murray is going to have a very big year.

Some here (most perhaps) won;t like this but I "think" Mixon is coming to a back field near you too. Kids a stud on the field, that's all I'll say.

And Bradford is going to have a HUGE year...there are those who point to never having a winning record but the true football folks understand the hands he's been dealt. He. Is. Ready.

BRING ON THE DRAFT!


Lol what article was that?



I'm guessing he's talking about a recent ESPN Insider article about Football Outsiders annual preliminary analysis of the upcoming season or one of the articles about it, like this one. There are all sorts of caveats involved since it's before the draft and well before the preseason and regular season.


Yep, that's the article I was referencing.


Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
I'm excited to see what having some balance on the football team will do for the defense. This is predicated on the additions at Tackle actually panning out. If those Free Agency moves falter like they did last year we are in for a long season.

I still think the biggest question is red zone effectiveness. Can they score some points? If they can, this will be a fun team to watch.

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Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
It would be nice to see Treadwell contribute in any way, to help our red zone suck-age. Hes made to be a red zone threat. I dont have a lot of faith in him, hope I am wrong.


Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:48 pm
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different.


:confused: I'm not sure what you're referring to above. Their points allowed per game was one of the better marks in team history so that IS a positive but they've done better in that department at least 6 or 7 times since 1975.

Sorry, I don't mean to distract from the thread. I just don't understand the reference.

POSITIVE, DAMMIT! SHEEESH!

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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
S197 wrote:
The defense was ranked #3 overall last year. Points allowed was one of the best in franchise history, a feat not accomplished since 1975 when the rules were vastly different.


:confused: I'm not sure what you're referring to above. Their points allowed per game was one of the better marks in team history so that IS a positive but they've done better in that department at least 6 or 7 times since 1975.

Sorry, I don't mean to distract from the thread. I just don't understand the reference.

POSITIVE, DAMMIT! SHEEESH!


:lol: I phrased the question in a positive manner!


Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:48 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Jim needs flogging! Flogging I say!

:spanking: :spanking: :spanking:

The beatings shall continue until morale improves.

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Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:59 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
lol....I AM trying...really I am...... :whistle:


Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:48 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
I like the fact we addressed the OL finally
and we got rid a lot of dead salary guys.
I am hoping we draft an OG with our
first pick. DT would be my second choice
and RB probably my third.

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Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:33 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
mansquatch wrote:
I'm excited to see what having some balance on the football team will do for the defense. This is predicated on the additions at Tackle actually panning out. If those Free Agency moves falter like they did last year we are in for a long season.

I still think the biggest question is red zone effectiveness. Can they score some points? If they can, this will be a fun team to watch.



Red zone play calling last year drove me nuts and this was AFTER Shurmur had taken over.

So many times like at JAX for instance, they'd hit on a couple long pass plays to get in to the RZ then inexplicably run TWICE and gain 0-1 yards each time, putting them in 3rd and long and exposing the T's causing Sam to throw quick and short or get sacked.

Not saying they whould throw it on every down but Pat needs to be MUCH better mixing it up down there to give the offense a chance and to start taking EZ shots once inside the 20 instead of continually trying to "chip a way" to get closer to the goal line. THIS is where Treadwell size and high pointing ability can be huge, along with Rudolph an d perhaps a new TE and/or WR we are about to draft?


Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:36 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
RFIP wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
I'm excited to see what having some balance on the football team will do for the defense. This is predicated on the additions at Tackle actually panning out. If those Free Agency moves falter like they did last year we are in for a long season.

I still think the biggest question is red zone effectiveness. Can they score some points? If they can, this will be a fun team to watch.



Red zone play calling last year drove me nuts and this was AFTER Shurmur had taken over.

So many times like at JAX for instance, they'd hit on a couple long pass plays to get in to the RZ then inexplicably run TWICE and gain 0-1 yards each time, putting them in 3rd and long and exposing the T's causing Sam to throw quick and short or get sacked.

Not saying they whould throw it on every down but Pat needs to be MUCH better mixing it up down there to give the offense a chance and to start taking EZ shots once inside the 20 instead of continually trying to "chip a way" to get closer to the goal line. THIS is where Treadwell size and high pointing ability can be huge, along with Rudolph an d perhaps a new TE and/or WR we are about to draft?


Chucking the ball up looking for a high point reception is only consistently effective if you draw a mismatch. Otherwise its a pretty low percentage play. I'm not sure how well Treadwell's skill set is going to match up, but I feel like his best chance to contribute might be in the slot. His excellent run blocking could make him a kind of hybrid TE, providing a mismatch in the run game. Slot corners provide a height mismatch, maybe they bring a CB2 into the slot out of position, maybe they play a S on him and open up a deep shot for Diggs or Thielen, force the FS to be deep and maybe you get a LB on Rudolph, bring another S on Rudolph and there's nobody deep. Treadwell on the outside doesn't do much to create mismatches outside of Josh Robinson being the other teams CB2, or in heavy sets in the run game, where you get 3 TEs out on the field but maintain (hopefully) a two WR set. Other than 2TE sets with Treadwell wide, I think you create a lot more possibilities with him in the slot.


Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:55 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Treadwell has the size and physicality to be a redzone threat. The issues are more mental IMO. We saw him blow a sure fire TD against DAL because he ran the wrong route, just as an example.

I'm not ready to throw Treadwell out as a bust yet. This coaching staff has been consistent in not starting rookie to a point that is maddening. We've seen it with Waynes on the defense as well. I think there is still hope that Treadwell will come of age this season, but the clock is ticking.

The red zone issues RFIP described were certainly a culprit as well although I'd say they were probably the fault of the OL more than any other individual, player or coach. Most of those plays described were dead in the trench before the RB hit the LOS or in the case of passing plays, resulted in a sack due mostly to the disaster at tackle. Those things SHOULD be better this year. If they are not then the rest of this will not matter.

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Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:41 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
mansquatch wrote:
Treadwell has the size and physicality to be a redzone threat. The issues are more mental IMO. We saw him blow a sure fire TD against DAL because he ran the wrong route, just as an example.

I'm not ready to throw Treadwell out as a bust yet. This coaching staff has been consistent in not starting rookie to a point that is maddening.


I don't think they've been particularly consistent in that regard. Barr, Diggs and Kendricks all started as rookies. It's been 3 years with this staff and in the first two, they were willing to start rookies. They didn't last year but I think that probably speaks more to the quality and/or readiness of their draft choices than to a hard line philosophy of keeping rookie players on the bench.

Quote:
The red zone issues RFIP described were certainly a culprit as well although I'd say they were probably the fault of the OL more than any other individual, player or coach.


I'm with RFIP in putting them firmly on the coaching. Under Zimmer, regardless of OC, the Vikes have been overly conservative in the red zone. They tend to run or try to work the ball in from underneath rather than actually throwing into the end zone. After 3 years, I think that IS indicative of a coaching. It's the same thing we saw from Brad Childress in his first few years and I suspect there's a "don't get risky, we should at least come out of this with a field goal" approach at work.


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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
Mothman wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
Treadwell has the size and physicality to be a redzone threat. The issues are more mental IMO. We saw him blow a sure fire TD against DAL because he ran the wrong route, just as an example.

I'm not ready to throw Treadwell out as a bust yet. This coaching staff has been consistent in not starting rookie to a point that is maddening.


I don't think they've been particularly consistent in that regard. Barr, Diggs and Kendricks all started as rookies. It's been 3 years with this staff and in the first two, they were willing to start rookies. They didn't last year but I think that probably speaks more to the quality and/or readiness of their draft choices than to a hard line philosophy of keeping rookie players on the bench.



I expect a change in this regard. Turner's offense was more complex and had a higher standard to get on the field. Of the players you listed starting as rookies, two were on defense and the offensive player only got a shot because of an injury. I expect Shurmur will be willing to specialize a lot more on offense which will make room for younger players. My big concern is that Treadwell was drafted to fit Turner's offense and Shurmur will struggle to find how he wants to use him.


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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
I dissagree, you are on the 1 yard line you expect your OL to get some push, especially with a back like Asiata who's strength is between the tackles. Those few opportunities were routinely squandered by a lack of push in the interior. And by lack I mean they went backwards.

On the passing side of things, who many times did we see a bull rush blow past Clemmings and smash Bradford or force an early throw?

There are no plays to call that defeat those blocking deficiencies inside the 20s. You can do more between the 20s, but once you get inside the red zone the defense can tighten up due to limited space and it gets a lot harder.

The place where I think one can question the coaching approach is on the development of these players. On Waynes it is hard to get after Zimmer given his long history of coaching DBs and having a great deal of success. For CP84 and now Treadwell is it a case where the player was bad or is it the inability of the Vikings to coach WRs? I don't know? The same question can be asked of the OL? None of this is new.

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Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:50 am
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Post Re: Try and be Positive.....
fiestavike wrote:
I expect a change in this regard. Turner's offense was more complex and had a higher standard to get on the field. Of the players you listed starting as rookies, two were on defense and the offensive player only got a shot because of an injury.


In Diggs' case, what created the opportunity doesn't seem particularly relevant. There were veteran alternatives available when Diggs got his first start against the Broncos last year but he got the start anyway and kept starting. I just don't think there's any substantive evidence of a philosophical unwillingness to start rookies unless we simply rationalize away glaring exceptions to that supposed philosophy. Waynes didn't start immediately because he was behind more qualified, game-ready veterans. That's the case with most rookies. There are typically better options. When this staff considers a rookie the best option, they seem to start them. Kendricks didn't start from the beginning of his rookie season either but it quickly became apparent he was ready and able to do so and once they concluded he was their best option at that position, he became the starter.

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I expect Shurmur will be willing to specialize a lot more on offense which will make room for younger players. My big concern is that Treadwell was drafted to fit Turner's offense and Shurmur will struggle to find how he wants to use him.


I'm not sure he was a good fit for Turner's offense. :( You could be right that we'll see more specialization and that could create more opportunities for rookie skill position players.

There's certainly nothing about a WCO that should prevent them from making good use of Treadwell if he proves himself capable of playing good football as a pro.


Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:02 am
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