Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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fiestavike wrote: This is very un-jim-like. Its like blaming a guy who fumbled the ball for losing the game. Way too many moving parts to try to measure things like that.
Let me know when Rick is on the field and is making decisions under duress. He has had years, not seconds to do his job. And a whole organization at his disposal. If Jim feels very unJim like it should tell you exactly what you need to know. Something is rotten in Denmark. :confused:
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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CbusVikesFan wrote: Let me know when Rick is on the field and is making decisions under duress. He has had years, not seconds to do his job. And a whole organization at his disposal. If Jim feels very unJim like it should tell you exactly what you need to know. Something is rotten in Denmark. :confused:
Way to tell me! :appl:
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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fiestavike wrote: This is very un-jim-like. Its like blaming a guy who fumbled the ball for losing the game. Way too many moving parts to try to measure things like that.
Spielman's role within the organization isn't analogous to the role of a ball-carrier on one play. He's running the entire football operation so when that football operation is unsuccessful over an extended period of time, he has far more accountability than that ball-carrier in a singular moment.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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Mothman wrote: Spielman's role within the organization isn't analogous to the role of a ball-carrier on one play. He's running the entire football operation so when that football operation is unsuccessful over an extended period of time, he has far more accountability than that ball-carrier in a singular moment.
Same principle, different scale.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

PurpleKoolaid wrote:I would love, just once, to hear PHP say Rick has made some mistakes, and isnt perfect. I bet he would still justly Rick getting John Carlson and the whole mess that became.
Well that just shows how unobservant you've been on this board because I have criticized him of many different things. Good try though :appl:
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote:
It just amazes me that a team with a GM who has apparently been doing such an incredible job can't seem to win a playoff game (or even get to one most of the time). :evil:
Because I said he was doing an "incredible" job? Sad thing is, some of you only see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. And I dont see that stopping anytime soon. Give the whole Spielman thing up with me Jim.....for the third time.
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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Boon wrote: Yep, all ricks fault he couldn't find 12 other all pro offensive linemen to replace the ones that got injured. Or peterson, or teddy where he was forced to trade. That worked out somewhat good but when you literally lose every offensive line starter at some point through the season you're not gonna win ####, the patriots couldnt have recovered from 12 offensive linemen going down. You are literally scraping the barrel when that happens, there isn't a team on the planet thats 12 deep on the oline.
Well as much as you might've "lost respect" for him just because of how he worded a post, he's actually right.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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fiestavike wrote:Same principle, different scale.
There's even a word for it: accountability. :)
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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Boon wrote:
You are literally scraping the barrel when that happens, there isn't a team on the planet thats 12 deep on the oline.
But it doesn't help when you were figuratively scraping the barrel before anyone got injured.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Because I said he was doing an "incredible" job? Sad thing is, some of you only see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. And I dont see that stopping anytime soon
After posting demonstrably false arguments and twisting yourself into self-contradictory knots in defense of Spielman in this thread it's pretty audacious to suggest anybody else is just seeing what they want to see or hearing what they want to hear.

No, you didn't say Spielman was doing an incredible job. That was sarcasm, posted because the implication of constant defense of almost any criticism of the man is that he doesn't deserve that criticism. The overall results suggest otherwise.

At what point will those results matter more to Vikings fans who defend this GM? How many years does Spielman get before the results actually have to match the idea that he's doing a bang up job?
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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The more I think about it, the more I think the Vikings were too ambitious in pairing Zimmer and Norv with the roster they had under Frazier. They had to rebuild the secondary and linebacking corps on defense, the entire offensive line, WR corps, and QB on offense. There was no feasible way to do that in a couple seasons. Changing the approach on the offense to one that can function at a lower level without having to invest so much draft capital might have been wiser in terms of immediate dividends, especially when factoring in the impatience of NFL fans/media. Its easier to do more with less on offense than it is on defense. You really can't fake it too much on defense. You have the horses or you don't. (Norv's system on offense sort of has the same constraint). I think they had to address defense first for that reason. Its a shame they didn't have Shurmur (or retain musgrave) for 3 years and then switch to Norv as they began to fix some of the holes on offense, but whatever. Where they are now, I really like adding a TE who can flex out and create mismatches. Maybe Laquan treadwell can fit that "Boldin" role as a WR this year out of the slot? Also a RB with a Sproles/Woodhead/White like skill set (there are several in this draft) will allow them to manufacture some cheap yards.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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Mothman wrote: At what point will those results matter more to Vikings fans who defend this GM? How many years does Spielman get before the results actually have to match the idea that he's doing a bang up job?
Its not really an either or proposition. At least not along those lines. Its a question of whether we want to have a good conversation or a silly one about artificial distinctions and nonsense.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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fiestavike wrote: But it doesn't help when you were figuratively scraping the barrel before anyone got injured.
This is the crux of the matter. Proactive instead of reactive. Have to get out in front of these types of problems.
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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fiestavike wrote: Its not really an either or proposition. At least not along those lines.


Perhaps you could frame it properly for us.
Its a question of whether we want to have a good conversation or a silly one about artificial distinctions and nonsense.
You post a lot of comments like that but rarely with any real clarity. Again, please provide genuine distinctions ( as opposed to what you perceive as artificial distinctions) and frame this properly for everybody.

My basic view is this: Spielman runs the football operation. He's in charge of day-to-day operations. He oversees the draft, the pro and college scouting departments, the roster, hires the head coach, likely plays at least an advisory role in hiring the coaching staff and oversees the front office staff. All of that has an impact on the team's success or failure in games, over the years. Consequently, it seems reasonable to hold the person with all of that responsibility accountable for results over time because his decisions have a tremendous impact on those outcomes.

I'm not suggesting a GM is solely responsible for every outcome and I know you don't like discussing results, stats, etc. but if wisely pursued, shouldn't the pursuit of excellence (or should I say a "culture of excellence"?) you often mention eventually result in excellence and success on a well-managed team?
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Re: Rick Spielman hasn't lost faith in himself or his system

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CbusVikesFan wrote:This is the crux of the matter. Proactive instead of reactive. Have to get out in front of these types of problems.
I agree and I think that comes back to good, logical team-building, effective scouting and player development.
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