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 2017 draft thread 
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I don't see the first two picks being D. I think at least one is offense. Either RB or OL. Call me crazy but it's starting to look like Forrest Lamp could fall to where he is in reaching distance for us. I never thought that would be possible but don't be surprised if you see us trade into the back end of the first to get him. He's an immediate plug and play at RG and can play tackle.


I'd be okay with that. I think I'd rather trade back and add another 3rd or 4th with all the talent in the first 3-4 rounds. Lamp seems like a great player though, so I wouldn't be upset if they move to get him.


Yeah a recent mock on NFL Network I saw had Lamp going 31 to Atlanta. That's definitely reaching distance for us.

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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I don't see the first two picks being D. I think at least one is offense. Either RB or OL. Call me crazy but it's starting to look like Forrest Lamp could fall to where he is in reaching distance for us. I never thought that would be possible but don't be surprised if you see us trade into the back end of the first to get him. He's an immediate plug and play at RG and can play tackle.


I'd be okay with that. I think I'd rather trade back and add another 3rd or 4th with all the talent in the first 3-4 rounds. Lamp seems like a great player though, so I wouldn't be upset if they move to get him.


Yeah a recent mock on NFL Network I saw had Lamp going 31 to Atlanta. That's definitely reaching distance for us.

We are pick 48,does that mean the 16th pick in the 2nd?

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Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:08 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
PurpleMustReign wrote:

We are pick 48,does that mean the 16th pick in the 2nd?

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Yes

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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
What would it take to move up to early 2nd or late 1st?

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Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:44 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
PurpleMustReign wrote:
What would it take to move up to early 2nd or late 1st?

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These are the Vikings picks and corresponding points according to the "chart"
Code:
 
Pick Points
48 420
79 195
86 160
121 52
129 43
160 27.4
199 11.8
232 0


Trading Pick #48 and #79 would get them up to about #30 or #31.


Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:51 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
S197 wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
What would it take to move up to early 2nd or late 1st?

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These are the Vikings picks and corresponding points according to the "chart"
Code:
 
Pick Points
48 420
79 195
86 160
121 52
129 43
160 27.4
199 11.8
232 0


Trading Pick #48 and #79 would get them up to about #30 or #31.

Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:01 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


I'm hoping they go D, or maybe TE early. They can get a good RB or interior OL in the 4th or 5th.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:41 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


I'm hoping they go D, or maybe TE early. They can get a good RB or interior OL in the 4th or 5th.


Just like they've been doing successfully for years now?

The heck with that. They need to stop stepping in the same holes year after year. I say draft OL early and maybe even often.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:01 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


I'm hoping they go D, or maybe TE early. They can get a good RB or interior OL in the 4th or 5th.


Just like they've been doing successfully for years now?

The heck with that. They need to stop stepping in the same holes year after year. I say draft OL early and maybe even often.


It would be a low return investment in Shurmur's system. They should have done that years ago. Too late now.

*edit
Drafting heavily OL now would be stepping into the same hole yet again, having a conflict between their system and their draft strategy. Still not having a unified organizational vision. We don't need any more of that.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:03 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


I'm hoping they go D, or maybe TE early. They can get a good RB or interior OL in the 4th or 5th.


Just like they've been doing successfully for years now?

The heck with that. They need to stop stepping in the same holes year after year. I say draft OL early and maybe even often.



Agreed. I hope they DON'T draft a TE at all. I agree that we could use another DT, but our top few picks should be OL, OL, RB, not necessarily in that order.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:14 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
It would be a low return investment in Shurmur's system. They should have done that years ago. Too late now.

*edit
Drafting heavily OL now would be stepping into the same hole yet again, having a conflict between their system and their draft strategy. Still not having a unified organizational vision. We don't need any more of that.


I don't see any conflict between drafting OL and a unified organizational vision. The offense is the weakest link on the team, the line is the weakest link on offense and Shurmur's offense will need good line play to be successful.

I'll even go a step further: any unified organizational vision that doesn't involve building a good OL is probably not a unified organizational vision worth having.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:32 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:

I'll even go a step further: any unified organizational vision that doesn't involve building a good OL is probably not a unified organizational vision worth having.



That may be true, but it is the vision they established when they hired Shurmur, its a vision a lot of the NFL is using to compensate for a lack of OL talent and the imposition of rules favorable to the passing game. Its not my prefered vision, but they should either go with it or hire a new OC. The ball is going to come out quick and they aren't going to need a great pass blocking unit, just competent. They will spread teams out and run up the middle. RBs who fit that style are available all through this draft. It would be a real waste of resources to get an Anthony Munoz to play LT (or an Adrian Peterson to play RB) in such a system. Reilly Reiff should do the trick just fine.

If you don't make use of the benefit such a system provides (not needing elite Tackles, or line play) [being able to invest resources elsewhere] then it is certainly not the system to be running.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:58 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
The pieces this team is going to most need to improve the offensive production are players who can create mismatches. A big back to run against nickel and dime defenses, a TE with enough athleticism to command attention from a safety, a RB who can catch and run routes and has the quickness to pose problems to bigger defenders, a big WR who can win jump balls against smaller corners, super quick, shifty slot receivers, etc. More specialization, more adjustment to the other team, less just doing what you do so well that you impose your will.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:24 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
That may be true, but it is the vision they established when they hired Shurmur, its a vision a lot of the NFL is using to compensate for a lack of OL talent and the imposition of rules favorable to the passing game. Its not my prefered vision, but they should either go with it or hire a new OC. The ball is going to come out quick and they aren't going to need a great pass blocking unit, just competent. They will spread teams out and run up the middle. RBs who fit that style are available all through this draft. It would be a real waste of resources to get an Anthony Munoz to play LT in such a system. Reilly Reiff should do the trick just fine.

If you don't make use of the benefit such a system provides (not needing elite Tackles, or line play) then it is certainly not the system to be running.


I'm not suggesting they need a "great pass blocking unit" or elite tackles but they will need good line play and they still need better depth and more talent throughout that unit. Spreading teams out and running up the middle still necessitates actually winning battles on the interior of the line.

They still have a guard position wide open with Sirles most likely to man it if they don't draft someone else to do it. Remmers is more likely to be a band-aid than a reliable starter and a quality center/guard might be a very good idea.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:24 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
The pieces this team is going to most need to improve the offensive production are players who can create mismatches. A big back to run against nickel and dime defenses, a TE with enough athleticism to command attention from a safety, a RB who can catch and run routes and has the quickness to pose problems to bigger defenders, a big WR who can win jump balls against smaller corners, super quick, shifty slot receivers, etc. More specialization, more adjustment to the other team, less just doing what you do so well that you impose your will.


All of that still requires reliable blocking up front. There's just no getting around it. It's fundamental to the game.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:27 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:

They still have a guard position wide open with Sirles most likely to man it if they don't draft someone else to do it. Remmers is more likely to be a band-aid than a reliable starter and a quality center/guard might be a very good idea.


I agree. They should address those positions, and they should be able to do that in the middle rounds.


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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The pieces this team is going to most need to improve the offensive production are players who can create mismatches. A big back to run against nickel and dime defenses, a TE with enough athleticism to command attention from a safety, a RB who can catch and run routes and has the quickness to pose problems to bigger defenders, a big WR who can win jump balls against smaller corners, super quick, shifty slot receivers, etc. More specialization, more adjustment to the other team, less just doing what you do so well that you impose your will.


All of that still requires reliable blocking up front. There's just no getting around it. It's fundamental to the game.


I agree. They need to be reliable and competent. They won't need to be excellent in this system as the position has been devalued by protecting the QB via refs and other rule changes.

Other places they will need to be excellent, especially on defense. Offenses can resort to cheap tricks via specialization, defenses not so much. You need an elite defense to contain a average offense in todays nfl, so the idea seems pretty clearly to be, build an elite defense and an average offense with sufficient gimmicks to manufacture enough yards/points to win.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:31 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
I agree. They should address those positions, and they should be able to do that in the middle rounds.


This is where we began our discussion. Why would you believe the Vikings, in particular, will be able to do that effectively when it's been a failing strategy for them for many years now? I understand the idea that it could work in theory but they've shown no real aptitude for finding good startling o-linemen in the middle rounds under Spielman. Sullivan proved to be an exception that regard.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:58 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
I agree. They should address those positions, and they should be able to do that in the middle rounds.


This is where we began our discussion. Why would you believe the Vikings, in particular, will be able to do that effectively when it's been a failing strategy for them for many years now? I understand the idea that it could work in theory but they've shown no real aptitude for finding good startling o-linemen in the middle rounds under Spielman. Sullivan proved to be an exception that regard.


If you are correct and Spielman/scouting are bad at identifying good OL, all the more reason not spend the most valuable picks on OL players.

If you are wrong and they have "missed" in drafting OL due to a variety of other circumstances, no reason to think they shouldn't be able to find them in the mid rounds. Other teams are frequently able to, and there is solid interior OL depth in this draft.


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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
If you are correct and Spielman/scouting are bad at identifying good OL, all the more reason not spend the most valuable picks on OL players.


It's easier to spot the cream of the crop and I think their chances of finding a quality starter are much better in the early rounds of the draft.

Quote:
If you are wrong and they have "missed" in drafting OL due to a variety of other circumstances, no reason to think they shouldn't be able to find them in the mid rounds. Other teams are frequently able to, and there is solid interior OL depth in this draft.


Yes, but we're not talking about other teams. The Vikings have been trying and failing with the exact strategy you're suggesting for the better part of a decade. I don't know if Spielman and the scouting department stink at identifying good o-linemen in every round but I do know they've struggled in the mid-to-late rounds. It's high time they changed tactics.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:39 am
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
The Vikings O-line has not come close to expectations since Mike Tice was O-line coach and HC. Maybe my bar is set too high and I expect too much. But under Denny Green and Tice the line was the least of worries. Oh yea, there was a HOF'R thrown in there somewhere. What I wouldn't give this draft for a half of a Randall McDaniel.

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Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:54 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
CbusVikesFan wrote:
The Vikings O-line has not come close to expectations since Mike Tice was O-line coach and HC. Maybe my bar is set too high and I expect too much. But under Denny Green and Tice the line was the least of worries. Oh yea, there was a HOF'R thrown in there somewhere. What I wouldn't give this draft for a half of a Randall McDaniel.

The OL in the late 90s was one of the best I have ever seen. They also had Everett Lindsey who could back up any position effectively.

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Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:58 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
PurpleMustReign wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
The Vikings O-line has not come close to expectations since Mike Tice was O-line coach and HC. Maybe my bar is set too high and I expect too much. But under Denny Green and Tice the line was the least of worries. Oh yea, there was a HOF'R thrown in there somewhere. What I wouldn't give this draft for a half of a Randall McDaniel.

The OL in the late 90s was one of the best I have ever seen. They also had Everett Lindsey who could back up any position effectively.

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Yes. Who was it though that was always getting false starts called. Was that Stuessie?

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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
CbusVikesFan wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
CbusVikesFan wrote:
The Vikings O-line has not come close to expectations since Mike Tice was O-line coach and HC. Maybe my bar is set too high and I expect too much. But under Denny Green and Tice the line was the least of worries. Oh yea, there was a HOF'R thrown in there somewhere. What I wouldn't give this draft for a half of a Randall McDaniel.

The OL in the late 90s was one of the best I have ever seen. They also had Everett Lindsey who could back up any position effectively.

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Yes. Who was it though that was always getting false starts called. Was that Stuessie?


Yes, his internal clock was always off. :)

It sure would be nice to see another Vikings guard as good as McDaniel again.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:06 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
fiestavike wrote:
Mothman wrote:

They still have a guard position wide open with Sirles most likely to man it if they don't draft someone else to do it. Remmers is more likely to be a band-aid than a reliable starter and a quality center/guard might be a very good idea.


I agree. They should address those positions, and they should be able to do that in the middle rounds.

I agree as well. Pat Elflien says he's the best center in this draft but from what has been said about the depth pool this year is very relative but I still would draft him.

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Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:11 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
I dont understand why anyone would want us to continue doing with the Oline the past few years. Which is basically nothing more then an afterthought. Bradford and Teddy both need to drop back, and set their feet before they throw the ball. Right now they really dont even have that extra second to do that. Watch Brady or Rogers. They get more time on some downs then the Vikings QB's get in an entire series. And thats because the Oline isnt a big concern of Rick's.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:04 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:
Yes, his internal clock was always off. :)

It sure would be nice to see another Vikings guard as good as McDaniel again.

McDaniels' are not easy to come by. Haven't seen arguably anyone as good as him, since him, across the league.

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Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:55 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
S197 wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
What would it take to move up to early 2nd or late 1st?

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These are the Vikings picks and corresponding points according to the "chart"
Code:
 
Pick Points
48 420
79 195
86 160
121 52
129 43
160 27.4
199 11.8
232 0


Trading Pick #48 and #79 would get them up to about #30 or #31.

Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


Rumor is some teams have taken them completely off their board. I think a lot of teams will still be interested due to his talent but I don't think he's a 1st day draftee. He'll definitely be one of the bigger stories of draft day but I think you look at guys like Tyreek Hill (whose crime was more heinous) but someone still took a chance on him. And he's no Joe Mixon, not coming out of college anyway. My guess is 3rd round for Mixon.


Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:59 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Might have to do this for Mixon. Im going to be pissed if they use their good picks on the D. We need Oline and RB. I dont think BPA is in play here. They scipped on good Olinemen last year and choked big time.


I'm hoping they go D, or maybe TE early. They can get a good RB or interior OL in the 4th or 5th.


Just like they've been doing successfully for years now?

The heck with that. They need to stop stepping in the same holes year after year. I say draft OL early and maybe even often.


The Vikings seem to be sitting in a bit of an Oline void in the second with most elite guys going before and then some comparable guys available a little later. I think Feeney may be the only viable option. We'll see but mocks like this show very few lineman in the 2nd and 3rd being taken.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800073/article/2017-sixround-mock-draft-round-2?akmobile=ios-tablet&akcarrier=other


Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:20 pm
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Post Re: 2017 draft thread
I'm thinking # 48 could be a very interesting pick. Who do you pick?
Feeney, McDowell, Brantley , Mixon all are still there at 48...who does Rick pick?


Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:45 pm
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