Toxic Leadership

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chicagopurple
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by chicagopurple » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:23 pm

So, who hired Norv and Son? Zim or Spielman??

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:25 pm

chicagopurple wrote:So, who hired Norv and Son? Zim or Spielman??
I'm almost positive Zim was able to pick his own staff
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:26 pm

Either way, if things are going smoothly, Turner waits until the end of the season to leave. Whether he quit or he was forced out, it was a giant issue in the middle of what was shaping up to be a great season. Him leaving wasn't the reason the team went 3-8, but it certainly didn't help. The defense struggled mightily during the slide as well, especially against Indy and GB in Lambeau.
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by Alaskan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:30 pm

I don't think you actually know what you are talking about, but you are entitled to your opinion.[/quote][/quote]

I don't. That's why I am so thankful for geniuses like you.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by fiestavike » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:41 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:Him leaving wasn't the reason the team went 3-8, but it certainly didn't help.
Seems to me that most folks think him leaving did help the Vikings by allowing them to fit the system better to the talent. Nonetheless they hold it against him even though his leaving made the team "better". It doesn't make a lot of sense, but I think Turner has just become a convenient scapegoat for vikings fans at this point.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by Alaskan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:42 pm

Thanks for the link. Again, I think we have to consider Turner's well-established character, the larger context of his comments and his obvious efforts at diplomacy. In that context, it seems more likely to me that Turner was undermined or otherwise found himself in a situation in which he felt it was better to relieve simmering tensions that were going to be detrimental to the team by leaving rather than remain and let that situation continue to build.

If it's "weak" for a coordinator to resign mid-season, I think it's even weaker to bring in his replacement and undermine what he's trying to do, which appears to be at least part of what happened. Personally, I also suspect his comment about not being able to do the things they needed to get done may have been, in part, a jab at Rick Spielman for failing to provide Turner with the kind of personnel his system clearly needs to be successful. That's speculation though.

Regardless of how we want to perceive Turner's decision to leave, it serves as a string indication that things weren't running smoothly behind the scenes.[/quote]

I agree, it was weak to bring in Turners replacement to put pressure on him to change his ways. Should have just fired him after the 15' season, but I can understand why he didn't. IMO that was one of the bigger mistakes Zimmer & Co. have made. Calling out his players the way he did publicly when they were on there losing skid was another big one. We are going to find out if he's learned from his mistakes and how much they will come back to haunt him in the coming months I am guessing.

To comment on a statement you made in a previous post regarding "dysfunction from the top down" I will agree with you the leadership at the top is weak (Wilf's). They are businessmen, they know how to make money, look no further than there net worth's for proof. However, that doesn't make them good leaders from a purely football perspective. IMO, for us to gauge Spielman and Zimmers performance when they are answering to the Wilf's is difficult.. They are following the Wilf's lead, which to me, is more about making money than it is about winning championships. If they "buck the system" they get fired for sure. They (Wilf's) got what they wanted, a taxpayer subsidized stadium to help build there real estate empire....and now sticking it to the fans with the seat licensing as well....that just further supports the point of money as there top priority. It's been there priority since buying the team, that's no secret. Winning may come, but it hasn't been the top priority of Ownership the same way it is for us fan's.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:30 pm

Just to clarify, the Vikings were not 5-0 when Turner left. They lost two in a row averaging 10ppg in both losses and was ranked #31 in total offense when Turner left.
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by Mothman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:37 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:Just to clarify, the Vikings were not 5-0 when Turner left. They lost two in a row averaging 10ppg in both losses and was ranked #31 in total offense when Turner left.
Correct. They were 5-2 with Turner as OC and 3-6 after his departure. Their last two games before he left were the road losses to the Eagles and Bears.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:51 pm

Mothman wrote: Correct. They were 5-2 with Turner as OC and 3-6 after his departure. Their last two games before he left were the road losses to the Eagles and Bears.
Either way, Christian Ponder sucks.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by CbusVikesFan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:37 pm

How far fetched would it be to think that this all could have started with drafting TB. I found it mesmerizing that Turner would have drafted him, at all, much less in the first and it all could have started there. A friend of mine told me I would hate Spielman and he destroyed the Dolphins before leaving there. He's a Dolphin fan so I didn't put a lot of thought into it at the time but looking back, I'm not so sure that is not the case.I scratched my head waiting to see something I thought I didn't see at first glance with TB but imho just because someone said he is most nfl ready qb does not necessarily mean he is going to be an above average qb. So that is why it puzzled me when Norv supposedly was in charge of the offense that he would pick him. And move up to do so.
So if I were Norv and he was definitely not my pick that would have started much animosity right away. Then things just kept snowballing from there. Idk, farfetched maybe. Something to think about, yes.
I am glad I got that out, I've been wanting to say it since TB was drafted. I never thought he was 1st round worthy.
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by jackal » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:20 pm

LMAO at the Ponder comment ...
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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chicagopurple
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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by chicagopurple » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:41 pm

I think it absurd to suggest that this is the Wilfs fault...The guy has opened his massive wallet and spent his own cash to build this team and stadium. He has NOT been a hands on owner who interferes with Football operations. He is not running around on the side lines or making drafting decisions. He has NOT stopped Spielman from recruiting, or retaining veterans. The ONE thing WIlf IS responsible for is Hiring and retaining Spielman and company.....that IS his call.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by S197 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:13 pm

There is something going on, from my perspective. Why would people be leaving a brand-new facility (U.S. Bank Stadium)? They got the best facility in the world. … That’s just not a normal thing to happen.
He's speculating based on the optics of what's going on. He seems to not realize that there's two sides to a negotiation and perhaps maybe the Vikings didn't want some of these players back. He may have a little more insight than the average person since his son was on the team but it's all hearsay.

He points to the downturn but fails to acknowledge all the extraordinary circumstances that led to said downturn. Atlanta was also 5-0 last year and finished 8-8. You can't get more apples/apples than that. Maybe there's a bigger issue, maybe not, but Rhett Ellison's dad isn't exactly the type of person that is going to make me worry unless he has some real evidence. We could be Atlanta for all we know.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by Husker Vike » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:03 pm

Just maybe Rhett wanted to go where he could have an opportunity to play more, The Giants don't have any one special at TE and Ellison will have a chance at the starting job.

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Re: Toxic Leadership

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:16 pm

Husker Vike wrote:Just maybe Rhett wanted to go where he could have an opportunity to play more, The Giants don't have any one special at TE and Ellison will have a chance at the starting job.
Yeah, too much is made of the family members comments in the last few years. I don't give a #### what AD's dad or Ellison's grandmother or Teddy's third cousin says. Shut up and let the players play.
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