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 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread 
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
fiestavike wrote:
mosscarter wrote:
i agree with rfip we need some speed on the outside. as of now, i think we really need another receiver. treadwell did absolutely nothing to convince me he is a legitimate starter. and as far as johnson goes; he was equally as useless. they could probably get boldin for the league minimum even though he is up there in age. they need someone.


Do they need speed or do they need Boldin?

Diggs and Thielen are both really fast. They could use someone who can catch contested balls which they may be hoping is Treadwell. Bohringer may get his chance to be the 5th WR if they don't add a FA or draft a WR early. :confused:


Agreed. Boldin would be a hedge against Treadwell stinking again but he would not provide the type speed I speak of.

I love Diggs and Thielen but I do not think of either of them as field stretchers a la DJax, Toerry Smith, Antonio Brown, acouple of the Cards receivers who names escape me, etc.

And for those who think Cook would not have started here I bet you they would have run a LOT of 2 TE sets which would have been amazing...

This draft is VERY deep at TE so it would not surprise me to see them dip in to that pool. Either way, they need at least 1 more wr of some ilk too.


Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:12 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Latavius-Murray-2016-Season-highlights/2b4c9f6d-773b-4259-a216-045d9cd2d88f

Murray's highlights from last year. One thing you always notice with him, he hits the line at full speed. He isn't a dancer. We had a lot of that this year. I'm not sure what there isn't to like about the kid. He isn't going to "wow" you but he's definitely a solid back. I just hope that since we had AP so long, we're going to hold every RB to his standards when it comes to running the ball. If thats the case, nobody will be happy with our RB situation for years from now.

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Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:13 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Latavius-Murray-2016-Season-highlights/2b4c9f6d-773b-4259-a216-045d9cd2d88f

Murray's highlights from last year. One thing you always notice with him, he hits the line at full speed. He isn't a dancer. We had a lot of that this year. I'm not sure what there isn't to like about the kid. He isn't going to "wow" you but he's definitely a solid back. I just hope that since we had AP so long, we're going to hold every RB to his standards when it comes to running the ball. If thats the case, nobody will be happy with our RB situation for years from now.


Lol. I see a lot of holes being created by a good oline. Let's pray we are vastly improve in that area.


Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:23 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Peterson isn't half as one-dimensional as he's being portrayed around here lately and that's been made clear over the course of his career. There's a difference between being used in a one-dimensional way by coaches with limited imagination and being a wholly one-dimensional player. There's a difference between seldom being asked to do something and not being able to do it at all. Peterson is not a back "who can only run in i-formation". He prefers that formation, just like QBs prefer to throw certain routes, WRs prefer to run certain routes, etc.

You'll kidding, right?

Adrian Peterson has never been close to multi-dimensional. He's been great, great, GREAT at what he does, which is run the football. First-ballot HOF great. But he's never been even average at catching the ball out of the backfield. He simply doesn't have good hands, Jim. He's also a poor blocker, not because of any lack of physical capability, but because he often doesn't know who he's supposed to block. You keep saying that the coaches don't use him in a multi-dimensional way. I agree. There's a reason for that.

And the stats don't lie. Adrian Peterson's per-carry average out of the gun is significantly less than his average out of the I. He's never been a patient runner, which is a must running out of the gun.

It's almost like you take these criticisms personally, Jim. Adrian Peterson is one of the greatest players I've ever seen, and THE best runner I've ever seen. But he's not perfect, and he's not multi-dimensional. Never has been. Why can't that be OK?

This is a simple case of Adrian Peterson's skillset not fitting what the Vikings want to do going forward. It sucks, but it's the truth. I don't know whether Latavius Murray fills the bill, but I understand why they are going this direction.


Very well said Kapp. I agree 100%. He hasnt been able to do much outside of running from under center which he was unbelievable at. But the rest of his game was far from great.


His issues running out of the gun has more to do with who he is. Running out of the gun requires deception. Typically a draw fakes pass and it's that moment of delay that opens up lanes for the running back. When you name is AP and the other teams has all eyes on you, the delay is non existent.


Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:28 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Latavius-Murray-2016-Season-highlights/2b4c9f6d-773b-4259-a216-045d9cd2d88f

Murray's highlights from last year. One thing you always notice with him, he hits the line at full speed. He isn't a dancer. We had a lot of that this year. I'm not sure what there isn't to like about the kid. He isn't going to "wow" you but he's definitely a solid back. I just hope that since we had AP so long, we're going to hold every RB to his standards when it comes to running the ball. If thats the case, nobody will be happy with our RB situation for years from now.


A guy whos broke 1000 yards once and only made it through one season with plus 200 carries, I don't expect much or anything to be honest. I for see another terrible year running the ball.

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Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:46 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
allday1991 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Latavius-Murray-2016-Season-highlights/2b4c9f6d-773b-4259-a216-045d9cd2d88f

Murray's highlights from last year. One thing you always notice with him, he hits the line at full speed. He isn't a dancer. We had a lot of that this year. I'm not sure what there isn't to like about the kid. He isn't going to "wow" you but he's definitely a solid back. I just hope that since we had AP so long, we're going to hold every RB to his standards when it comes to running the ball. If thats the case, nobody will be happy with our RB situation for years from now.


A guy whos broke 1000 yards once and only made it through one season with plus 200 carries, I don't expect much or anything to be honest. I for see another terrible year running the ball.


Why don't you wait to see what goes on in the draft before we just predict we're going to have another terrible year running the ball. His sophomore year he didn't come on until the end when he was given a shot. His rookie year he didn't see the field. So judging either of those years brings nothing to the table.

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Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:58 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
allday1991 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Latavius-Murray-2016-Season-highlights/2b4c9f6d-773b-4259-a216-045d9cd2d88f

Murray's highlights from last year. One thing you always notice with him, he hits the line at full speed. He isn't a dancer. We had a lot of that this year. I'm not sure what there isn't to like about the kid. He isn't going to "wow" you but he's definitely a solid back. I just hope that since we had AP so long, we're going to hold every RB to his standards when it comes to running the ball. If thats the case, nobody will be happy with our RB situation for years from now.


A guy whos broke 1000 yards once and only made it through one season with plus 200 carries, I don't expect much or anything to be honest. I for see another terrible year running the ball.

Didn't actually watch the highlights, did you?

What I see on this video is better than anything we had on our roster going into this offseason, by far. Yes, that includes Adrian Peterson.

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Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:23 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
I think that the point that many are forgetting is that, we are becoming SAMs team. We are transitioning to a passing team. I think people are getting too caught up in the past and need to look at what they are trying to do. 2 OT and a Great Pass blocking RB. We might see our QB stay upright. Sustain drives and score more TDs than our defense.

I am choosing to be optimistic.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:09 am
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
allday1991 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Latavius-Murray-2016-Season-highlights/2b4c9f6d-773b-4259-a216-045d9cd2d88f

Murray's highlights from last year. One thing you always notice with him, he hits the line at full speed. He isn't a dancer. We had a lot of that this year. I'm not sure what there isn't to like about the kid. He isn't going to "wow" you but he's definitely a solid back. I just hope that since we had AP so long, we're going to hold every RB to his standards when it comes to running the ball. If thats the case, nobody will be happy with our RB situation for years from now.


A guy whos broke 1000 yards once and only made it through one season with plus 200 carries, I don't expect much or anything to be honest. I for see another terrible year running the ball.

Didn't actually watch the highlights, did you?

What I see on this video is better than anything we had on our roster going into this offseason, by far. Yes, that includes Adrian Peterson.


Exactly. I don't care if he has a good OL or not in this video. Bottom line is he hits the line at full speed, he's a one cut RB that doesn't dance in the hole and can fit through tiny windows.

No less our OL is already drastically different from last years. And we added two tackles that excellent run blockers and will add a new guard in the draft.

So all in all, we get an improvement at RB and two OL that are very good run blockers yet you see us having another terrible season running the ball? Hmmm

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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
You'll kidding, right?

Adrian Peterson has never been close to multi-dimensional. He's been great, great, GREAT at what he does, which is run the football. First-ballot HOF great. But he's never been even average at catching the ball out of the backfield. He simply doesn't have good hands, Jim. He's also a poor blocker, not because of any lack of physical capability, but because he often doesn't know who he's supposed to block. You keep saying that the coaches don't use him in a multi-dimensional way. I agree. There's a reason for that.

And the stats don't lie. Adrian Peterson's per-carry average out of the gun is significantly less than his average out of the I. He's never been a patient runner, which is a must running out of the gun.

It's almost like you take these criticisms personally, Jim. Adrian Peterson is one of the greatest players I've ever seen, and THE best runner I've ever seen. But he's not perfect, and he's not multi-dimensional. Never has been. Why can't that be OK?


He's not a back who's so limited he can only run successfully out of one formation either. Why can't that be okay, especially since it's a demonstrable fact?

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This is a simple case of Adrian Peterson's skillset not fitting what the Vikings want to do going forward. It sucks, but it's the truth. I don't know whether Latavius Murray fills the bill, but I understand why they are going this direction.


I understand it too. I have all along, which is why I didn't expect Peterson to be back in 2017.

As for the rest, it's the exaggerations that aggravate me. I don't take them personally, I just get tired of them.

I've never said Peterson's a great blocker or that he has great hands but he's not incompetent in either area, which is how he's often portrayed. As I said, he's not a wholly one-dimensional player. How has a back who's supposedly useless in the passing game accumulated almost 2000 yards receiving in his career?There's a difference between not being able to do something and not excelling at it. He's caught passes, blocked blitzers, played on third downs, made good runs from the shotgun formation, etc. These are aspects of his game the team has made very little effort to develop over the years. I think he's shown he's adaptable and I also think he's shown he can improve on his shortcomings when he sets his mind to it and is given sufficient opportunity. He'll never have the versatility of Payton or Tomlinson and I've never claimed he does but he's not a one trick pony.

As for the shotgun: blocking and the very nature of the Vikings offense has had a lot to do with him being less successful running from the gun, not that he's ever been asked to run from it much in the first place. Of course, as I wrote above, he has run from it and he's had some good runs from it too so again, it's not that he can't do it. He's less effective from it. Why that surprises anyone or why it's turned into a hammer with which to bludgeon the guy for the last few seasons is beyond me, since it's a passing formation. It's hard to imagine that a running back would run better from a running formation than a passing formation. ;) It's especially hard to imagine that would be true on a team that's had an anemic passing game for most of that running back's career!

The determination to denigrate Peterson because fans want the team to move in another direction annoys me. The latter can happen without the exaggerated disparagement of one of the Vikings all-time great players.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:40 am
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
YikesVikes wrote:
His issues running out of the gun has more to do with who he is. Running out of the gun requires deception. Typically a draw fakes pass and it's that moment of delay that opens up lanes for the running back. When you name is AP and the other teams has all eyes on you, the delay is non existent.


Exactly! At long last, somebody who gets it. Thank you.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:43 am
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
His issues running out of the gun has more to do with who he is. Running out of the gun requires deception. Typically a draw fakes pass and it's that moment of delay that opens up lanes for the running back. When you name is AP and the other teams has all eyes on you, the delay is non existent.


Exactly! At long last, somebody who gets it. Thank you.


Either way, Peterson has came out and said he didnt like it. He said he feels more comfortable getting a 7 hard head start vs. just running from a flat stance. You can blame the OL, the OC, the offense, whoever, but bottom line is, it didnt fit his style of running and never will. He admitted it he didnt like it. Another reason why I didnt mind moving on from him because if we're going more shotgun based, whats the purpose of holding onto him. We dont have time to sit here and try and let him learn how to do it. Or complain to the media that he isnt a fan of it. It's just much easier moving on. He didnt fit Shurmur's system

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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Either way, Peterson has came out and said he didnt like it. He said he feels more comfortable getting a 7 hard head start vs. just running from a flat stance.


Why wouldn't he prefer to run a wider variety of plays from a running formation with a 7 yard start? He's a freakin' running back. If I played the position, i;d prefer that too over running out of a formation designed for pass blocking and that relies on deception for a running play to succeed.

Players have preferences and that one is logical. That's not exactly news and it's not detrimental.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:03 am
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Either way, Peterson has came out and said he didnt like it. He said he feels more comfortable getting a 7 hard head start vs. just running from a flat stance.


Why wouldn't he prefer to run a wider variety of plays from a running formation with a 7 yard start? He's a freakin' running back. If I played the position, i;d prefer that too over running out of a formation designed for pass blocking and that relies on deception for a running play to succeed.

Players have preferences and that one is logical. That's not exactly news and it's not detrimental.


Well point being, he realized he wasnt very good at it. There are plenty of RBs that are very effective at it. He is not. We're in a league now where the most effective RBs are effective at both. Look at guys like Leveon Bell and David Johnson. They can be effective out of any formation. Peterson cant and that would be a problem for us given the style of offense we have now

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Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:32 am
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Well point being, he realized he wasnt very good at it. There are plenty of RBs that are very effective at it. He is not. We're in a league now where the most effective RBs are effective at both. Look at guys like Leveon Bell and David Johnson. They can be effective out of any formation. Peterson cant and that would be a problem for us given the style of offense we have now


I don't think that's true but I'm not going to go in circles with you about this.


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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
His issues running out of the gun has more to do with who he is. Running out of the gun requires deception. Typically a draw fakes pass and it's that moment of delay that opens up lanes for the running back. When you name is AP and the other teams has all eyes on you, the delay is non existent.


Exactly! At long last, somebody who gets it. Thank you.


That might be a small factor, but watching the plays and watching Peterson its obvious there is more at play than what the defense is doing. Peterson stinks at running out of the shotgun, he has no feel for it.


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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
fiestavike wrote:
That might be a small factor, but watching the plays and watching Peterson its obvious there is more at play than what the defense is doing. Peterson stinks at running out of the shotgun, he has no feel for it.


It's not a small factor, it's a significant factor, as was the quality of the passing game.

He's probably never run out of the formation enough to get truly comfortable in it but the idea that he has no feel for it or can't do it effectively is something that emerged during the Zimmer era when, not coincidentally, the offense was predictable, the line has been pretty-to-very ineffective and the QB play in games Peterson has played has been... ahem, less than scary to opposing defenses.

Peterson's rushing numbers from the shotgun prior to 2014:

83 for 407 (4.9 ypc)

48 for 78 (1.625 ypc)

Gee, what happened?

With that, I'm probably done. I doubt I can change any minds on this.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:20 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
That might be a small factor, but watching the plays and watching Peterson its obvious there is more at play than what the defense is doing. Peterson stinks at running out of the shotgun, he has no feel for it.


It's not a small factor, it's a significant factor, as was the quality of the passing game.

He's probably never run out of the formation enough to get truly comfortable in it but the idea that he has no feel for it or can't do it effectively is something that emerged during the Zimmer era when, not coincidentally, the offense was predictable, the line has been pretty-to-very ineffective and the QB play in games Peterson has played has been... ahem, less than scary to opposing defenses.

Peterson's rushing numbers from the shotgun prior to 2014:

83 for 407 (4.9 ypc)

48 for 78 (1.625 ypc)

Gee, what happened?

With that, I'm probably done. I doubt I can change any minds on this.


Listen I dont think anyone was more predictable during the Frazier era than Bill Musgrave. He was just as predictable as Turner. Peterson's problem is, he would take the handoff and almost come to a complete stop before hitting a hole. Under center, he had a 7 yard burst that had him heading right towards the hole already. He danced too much at the line when he ran out of the gun. You're right, you probably arent changing anyones mind. He just wasnt effective enough to say so out of the gun. He didnt fit this offense anymore. We arent a ground and pound team anymore

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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Listen I dont think anyone was more predictable during the Frazier era than Bill Musgrave. He was just as predictable as Turner.


With a better power running scheme and a better line. It's the combination of factors I was getting at, not just one. Look at the numbers below. The drop-off under Zimmer is precipitous. Other than 5 carries from the shotgun for -4 yards in his rookie year, he'd never averaged less than 3.5 ypc out of the shotgun and in several seasons he averaged over 5 ypc. Then suddenly, under Zimmer, he averaged 2.1 ypc or less. That powerfully suggests outside factors rather than just Peterson himself as the main reason for the poor rushing numbers out of the gun.

2007: 5 for -4
2008: 9 for 85; 9.4 ypc
2009: 7 for 28; 4.0 ypc
2010: 15 for 75; 5.0 ypc
2011: 7 for 26; 3.7 ypc
2012: 12 for 42; 3.5 ypc
2013: 28 for 155; 5.5 ypc
2014: 4 for 5; 1.3 ypc
2015: 36 for 56; 1.6 ypc
2016: 8 for 17; 2.1 ypc

Quote:
Peterson's problem is, he would take the handoff and almost come to a complete stop before hitting a hole. Under center, he had a 7 yard burst that had him heading right towards the hole already. He danced too much at the line when he ran out of the gun.


When an accomplished runner is dancing at the line it's usually because there's nowhere to go.

Quote:
You're right, you probably arent changing anyones mind. He just wasnt effective enough to say so out of the gun. He didnt fit this offense anymore. We arent a ground and pound team anymore


You keep bringing that up as if i don't grasp it. I haven't been arguing that he would be a good fit for a shotgun-heavy offense.

I guess I wasn't quite done after all. :)


Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:14 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
That might be a small factor, but watching the plays and watching Peterson its obvious there is more at play than what the defense is doing. Peterson stinks at running out of the shotgun, he has no feel for it.


It's not a small factor, it's a significant factor, as was the quality of the passing game.

He's probably never run out of the formation enough to get truly comfortable in it but the idea that he has no feel for it or can't do it effectively is something that emerged during the Zimmer era when, not coincidentally, the offense was predictable, the line has been pretty-to-very ineffective and the QB play in games Peterson has played has been... ahem, less than scary to opposing defenses.

Peterson's rushing numbers from the shotgun prior to 2014:

83 for 407 (4.9 ypc)

48 for 78 (1.625 ypc)

Gee, what happened?

With that, I'm probably done. I doubt I can change any minds on this.


Go back to 2015 and you can use an almost identical "gee, what happened?" stat breakdown to prove that Asiata and McKinnon are better out of the gun. I don't particularly care about the stat breakdown, because I can watch Peterson suck at running out of the shotgun with my own eyes. He lacks vision and understanding of what they are trying to accomplish.

BUT, I would like to know where you found that statistic, because I'm pretty sure it is not accurate. so far through 12 game logs pre 2014 Peterson has 4 carries out of the shotgun for a total of 10 yards and a fumble. He hasn't had more than 1 carry from the shotgun in any of the games I've reviewed. I'm pretty sure that to get to 83 they must be including his receptions out of the shotgun formation because its very unlikely he managed 151 carries out of the shotgun during his career, or 83 before 2014. If the stat is accurate the number is likely skewed by most of those carries coming on 3rd and long.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:21 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
fiestavike wrote:
BUT, I would like to know where you found that statistic, because I'm pretty sure it is not accurate.


Most of the numbers are from ESPN's game splits for peterson. They were missing info by formation for a few of his early seasons so that info came from profootballreference.com.


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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
BUT, I would like to know where you found that statistic, because I'm pretty sure it is not accurate.


Most of the numbers are from ESPN's game splits for peterson. They were missing info by formation for a few of his early seasons so that info came from profootballreference.com.


Thanks.

The bottom line for me is that I can watch it and know he's not good at it. If someone else can watch it and come to a different conclussion I'm happy to leave that as a simple disagreement, because frankly, there's nothing left to discuss at that point. Statistical justification for one position or the other is either superfluous or misleading IMO.

None of That takes away from what he is good at, or from my appreciation for what he does well. I think you and I agree on the style of play we prefer and I'm not excited about the offensive direction of the Vikings (or the NFL for that matter) but given what the Vikings are going to do offensively, its obvious to me that he's not a fit.


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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:

With a better power running scheme and a better line. It's the combination of factors I was getting at, not just one. Look at the numbers below. The drop-off under Zimmer is precipitous. Other than 5 carries from the shotgun for -4 yards in his rookie year, he'd never averaged less than 3.5 ypc out of the shotgun and in several seasons he averaged over 5 ypc. Then suddenly, under Zimmer, he averaged 2.1 ypc or less. That powerfully suggests outside factors rather than just Peterson himself as the main reason for the poor rushing numbers out of the gun.

2007: 5 for -4
2008: 9 for 85; 9.4 ypc
2009: 7 for 28; 4.0 ypc
2010: 15 for 75; 5.0 ypc
2011: 7 for 26; 3.7 ypc
2012: 12 for 42; 3.5 ypc
2013: 28 for 155; 5.5 ypc
2014: 4 for 5; 1.3 ypc
2015: 36 for 56; 1.6 ypc
2016: 8 for 17; 2.1 ypc


It's been so limited across his career it's pretty hard to judge. He never broke 15 shotgun runs an entire season outside of two years. Even worse, 2014 was a lost season for him. So was last year where he played 3 games. So between the 2014 and 2016 season, he played in 4 total games. 2 of them (GB and Indy) he only played about half the game if that. So all in all you're looking at about 3 total games in two years. And a whopping 12 carries out of the gun in those contests. Pretty hard to judge if you ask me. 3 games, 12 carries. Not much to work with there. 2015 is the only one you can really use since Zimmer has been here

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When an accomplished runner is dancing at the line it's usually because there's nowhere to go.


So there is often somewhere to go when the QB is under center but rarely ever anywhere to go when operating out of the gun?? You can tell he doesnt have the patience for it. He's not that kind of back. He's a get it and go type RB. Look at the patience Leveon Bell has when running out of the gun. It's easy to sit here and point at the finger at the OL because I know that's what youre implying.

All in all, either our OL in 2015 was really good blocking from under center since he ran for 1400+ yards last year and terrible blocking out of the gun OR Adrian Peterson is great running from under center and very ineffective running out of the gun. I'll take the latter on this one.

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Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:42 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
fiestavike wrote:

None of That takes away from what he is good at, or from my appreciation for what he does well. I think you and I agree on the style of play we prefer and I'm not excited about the offensive direction of the Vikings (or the NFL for that matter) but given what the Vikings are going to do offensively, its obvious to me that he's not a fit.


Totally agree with Siesta (again.....what's going on around here??lol). That style of offense is certainly not flashy or exciting but if we can generate wins.....then hey I'm all in.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:49 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

All in all, either our OL in 2015 was really good blocking from under center since he ran for 1400+ yards last year and terrible blocking out of the gun OR Adrian Peterson is great running from under center and very ineffective running out of the gun. I'll take the latter on this one.


I think that's a pretty potent observation because frankly (as we all know) the line was terrible in 2015

It really hasn't been good at any point in Adrian Peterson's Vikings career, and yet he managed to put up great numbers, even with Christian Ponder, Tarvaris Jackson, and (Bad) Brett Favre 2.0 providing the counter balance in the passing game. That doesn't even get into the state of the defense under Childress and Frazier. It was an incredible achievement from a dominant runner


Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:49 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

All in all, either our OL in 2015 was really good blocking from under center since he ran for 1400+ yards last year and terrible blocking out of the gun OR Adrian Peterson is great running from under center and very ineffective running out of the gun. I'll take the latter on this one.


I think that's a pretty potent observation because frankly (as we all know) the line was terrible in 2015

It really hasn't been good at any point in Adrian Peterson's Vikings career, and yet he managed to put up great numbers, even with Christian Ponder, Tarvaris Jackson, and (Bad) Brett Favre 2.0 providing the counter balance in the passing game. That doesn't even get into the state of the defense under Childress and Frazier. It was an incredible achievement from a dominant runner


Well they must've been good enough run blockers. Yeah Adrian Peterson was a great RB but you dont just rattle of 1400 yards year after year if the line is as bad as you say it is. Pass blocking doesnt transfer to run blocking.

And as for his whole career, I completely disagree that his OL wasnt good. In 2009, their OL was McKinnie, Hutchinson, Sullivan, Herrera and Loadholt. That is a pretty good offensive line. He had that OL for a few years I believe. I know everyone wants to rip Spielman for "ignoring the OL" but lets be realistic here. That OL was good earlier in his career. I would say it started to tail off right around 2013-2014. Practically right around the time we had to start rebuilding our entire defense

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Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:02 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

All in all, either our OL in 2015 was really good blocking from under center since he ran for 1400+ yards last year and terrible blocking out of the gun OR Adrian Peterson is great running from under center and very ineffective running out of the gun. I'll take the latter on this one.


I think that's a pretty potent observation because frankly (as we all know) the line was terrible in 2015


Right, which is why, when the team tries to run out of a passing formation and the defense keys on the runner anyway, that poor blocking becomes an even bigger issue. Most running plays are blocked like running plays. Running plays from the gun tend to be draw plays which rely on deception and if the defense doesn't buy that deception, the play's chances for success are significantly diminished, especially when the line is bad in the first place.

That seems obvious to me and it's been obvious on film too. :confused:

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It really hasn't been good at any point in Adrian Peterson's Vikings career, and yet he managed to put up great numbers, even with Christian Ponder, Tarvaris Jackson, and (Bad) Brett Favre 2.0 providing the counter balance in the passing game. That doesn't even get into the state of the defense under Childress and Frazier. It was an incredible achievement from a dominant runner


Agreed.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:06 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Add screens to this as well. When two Lbs are following your RB on each play, no screen can be sucessful.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:27 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

All in all, either our OL in 2015 was really good blocking from under center since he ran for 1400+ yards last year and terrible blocking out of the gun OR Adrian Peterson is great running from under center and very ineffective running out of the gun. I'll take the latter on this one.


I think that's a pretty potent observation because frankly (as we all know) the line was terrible in 2015


Right, which is why, when the team tries to run out of a passing formation and the defense keys on the runner anyway, that poor blocking becomes an even bigger issue. Most running plays are blocked like running plays. Running plays from the gun tend to be draw plays which rely on deception and if the defense doesn't buy that deception, the play's chances for success are significantly diminished, especially when the line is bad in the first place.

That seems obvious to me and it's been obvious on film too. :confused:

Quote:
It really hasn't been good at any point in Adrian Peterson's Vikings career, and yet he managed to put up great numbers, even with Christian Ponder, Tarvaris Jackson, and (Bad) Brett Favre 2.0 providing the counter balance in the passing game. That doesn't even get into the state of the defense under Childress and Frazier. It was an incredible achievement from a dominant runner


Agreed.


Once again, the whole OL being bad for his whole career is false. I just proved that.

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Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:30 pm
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Post Re: 2017 Vikings Free Agency Signings Thread
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Once again, the whole OL being bad for his whole career is false. I just proved that.


You'll need to take that up with FiestaVike. :) I was agreeing with the overall thrust of his last paragraph, that what Peterson has done as a Viking is an incredible achievement from a dominant runner. He's faced difficult circumstances but I don't think he's been running behind bad lines for his entire career. I don't think he's ever had the opportunity run behind a great one but some of those lines were quite good at run blocking. Pass blocking was never really a strength during that period.


Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:52 pm
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