Spielman has a plan to avoid repeating 2016

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fiestavike
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Re: Spielman has a plan to avoid repeating 2016

Post by fiestavike » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:17 pm

Mothman wrote: Yes, it is but nobody is making an argument to the contrary so while that point IS accurate, the fact remains that a good defense doesn't constitute a good team and it shouldn't immunize Spielman against legitimate criticism. While the defense has improved, we've seen a steep decline in the quality of the offense. Ultimately, it's the quality of the whole team that matters.

Spielman has made a number good decisions over the years but the point has never been that he doesn't make good decisions, it's been that he never seems to make enough of them. The fact remains, in his decade with the team, they've won just a single playoff game (under Childress) and in his 5 years as GM, their overall record is a mediocre 41-40.
I'm not sure there's been a steep decline in the offense. Its pretty much been lousy for his entire tenure.

Generally speaking, I think its a mistake to take skill position players when you don't have your core together. I like the traditional approach of building from the inside out, but I also recognize that the game has changed, and that's probably not as essential as it used to be. Hell, its not even as possible as it used to be.

There haven't been a ton of great college OL in a while. We're not seeing guys ready to play NFL football, even if they are "top of the class" in a lot of cases. This brings up the whole square peg, round hole subject again...if you can't get the offensive linemen to build an NFL calibur OL (and there aren't enough of them to go around) do you start running a college offense? I think we're starting to see more of that, and it might even be part of the compromise the Vikings are now making, and part of the whole Norv/Shurmur divide.

I think Spielman tried to get ahead of the curve on his approach to OL, and it was a real failure! Was it a strategic failure or was it a scouting failure? I mean, if TJ Clemmings, Brandon Fusco, Willie Beavers and David Yankey were competent contributors in the upcoming season (Not to mention Easton and Sirles, Harris and Hill), the strategy would look a lot different. I think it was a strategic failure and a scouting failure, but I don't entirely mind the attempt at getting ahead of the game there. Still, I think Trading up for Patterson was a mistake, and I think not trading up for a tackle last year was a mistake...those are probably the two draft decisions that cost them the best chance to improve the OL in Spielman's tenure via the draft. Trading a first for Sam Bradford when he would likely have been available for a late rounder this year was probably another gaffe in that regard.

So, what do they do now? I am scared they are going to continue mortgaging future for present. I see that becoming a pattern and it really doesn't bode well. Do they end up costing themselves a Xavier Rhodes, a Linval Joseph, an Eric Kendricks by going crazy for Okung or Whitworh and Wagner?

One thing the Vikings have been great at, is managing the cap...that might be partly because they haven't had rosters talented enough to force them into a lot of hard decisions, but i do think there is some reason for optimism that they'll construct things with enough escape hatches to cover their hind parts financially.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Spielman has a plan to avoid repeating 2016

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Mothman wrote: Yes, it is but nobody is making an argument to the contrary so while that point IS accurate, the fact remains that a good defense doesn't constitute a good team and it shouldn't immunize Spielman against legitimate criticism. While the defense has improved, we've seen a steep decline in the quality of the offense. Ultimately, it's the quality of the whole team that matters.

Spielman has made a number good decisions over the years but the point has never been that he doesn't make good decisions, it's been that he never seems to make enough of them. The fact remains, in his decade with the team, they've won just a single playoff game (under Childress) and in his 5 years as GM, their overall record is a mediocre 41-40.
Yes I understand it's the whole team and not just the defense. Hence why I mentioned the offense in the original post. However you say a steep decline in the quality of offense but I would probably disagree with that. I suppose it depends on what you're referring to. Because if you look at the 2012 offense, we had no QB, average to below OL, terrible WRs, a TE that struggled to stay healthy and a HOF RB.

We now have a QB, we have a MUCH improved WR corps, a TE that has gotten over the injury bug, a worse OL and a RB that has had his age catch up to him. From 2012 to now, I dont see that at a steep decline. If you're referring to the OL, then yes. The offense as a whole? No. I would just say it hasnt improved a whole lot. But I wouldnt say it's been in a steep decline.

I think a big reason this offense went backwards a bit this year was simply because of the OL and losing AP. When you have 11+ different starting combinations on the OL due to injuries, it's definitely going to struggle.

But I'm guessing we address the OL pretty heavily this year and address RB which takes a ton off Bradfords back. I think then, you'll see quite an improvement
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Re: Spielman has a plan to avoid repeating 2016

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:54 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Yes I understand it's the whole team and not just the defense. Hence why I mentioned the offense in the original post. However you say a steep decline in the quality of offense but I would probably disagree with that. I suppose it depends on what you're referring to. Because if you look at the 2012 offense, we had no QB, average to below OL, terrible WRs, a TE that struggled to stay healthy and a HOF RB.
I was referring to the decline from their 2013 ranking (#13) since it fell on the same timeline as the 2013 defensive ranking Mansquatch was referring to above. Overall, I'm more inclined to agree with Fiesta that (with a few exceptions) the offense hasn't been very good for most of Spielman's tenure in Minnesota.
We now have a QB, we have a MUCH improved WR corps, a TE that has gotten over the injury bug, a worse OL and a RB that has had his age catch up to him. From 2012 to now, I dont see that at a steep decline. If you're referring to the OL, then yes. The offense as a whole? No. I would just say it hasnt improved a whole lot. But I wouldn't say it's been in a steep decline.
I don't really care if we categorize it as a steep decline or just say it's been a problem for a long time. The underlying points are the same: 1.) it's been problematic and 2.) I don't think the argument that the team neglected the OL because it had bigger fish to fry on defense holds up well under scrutiny since the offense has been ranked low and performing at a disappointing level for years now. It's been a rather obvious "fish" in need of "frying", especially the line.
But I'm guessing we address the OL pretty heavily this year and address RB which takes a ton off Bradfords back. I think then, you'll see quite an improvement
I certainly hope so.
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Boon
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Re: Spielman has a plan to avoid repeating 2016

Post by Boon » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:40 am

Watch how elite the defense is when the offense isnt getting stomped in TOP. It's elite. Factors make it otherwise. Such as that mentioned TOP and stupid timely penalties that extend drives. And don't even try and chime in with two eggs they laid because it happens to almost everyone.

This is a top notch defense. With top notch defenders. Minus sendejo :wallbang:
And to an extent munnerlyn. I just don't like his game. Take it as you will
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Demi
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Re: Spielman has a plan to avoid repeating 2016

Post by Demi » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:47 pm

Of course he does.
Like he had a plan to build this team when he was given control in early 2012.
Give me a break.
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