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 Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell 
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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
losperros wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The problem is, its just not that big a part of the game today, and there is a good likelihood that there won't even be any kicks to return before Patterson's next contract is up.

I think any contract you negotiate with Patterson has to assume that the kick return will be eliminated from the NFL, and therefore you pay him as a WR only. How much is a 3/4 WR worth? Probably not more than a couple million to most teams.


Why is the NFL eliminating kick returns? Are they just making things harder for returners? It didn't affect CP last year. Or is the NFL actually doing away with kick returns? Should the NFL continue with kick offs, Patterson is the best returner in the business. And I think the Vikings should be interested in retaining an All-Pro returner.

Just my two cents but I think special teams are a big part of every game.

I don't know how much a 3/4 WR is worth, particularly if he's a good punt gunner (the NFL will be still be punting, right?), is a threat after the catch, and can run effectively out of the backfield.


First, I don't think Patterson would be a good punt returner.

Yes, the NFL has been making a lot of rumblings about getting rid of the kick return and they did reduce the relevance of the KR by moving the mark up. The whole rational for that was 'player safety' and wanted to reduce the number of kick returns taken out of the endzone in the first place. I think its widely understood that their goal was to increase touchbacks to the point that there is no longer any reason to bother with Kickoffs and they can simply get rid of it. If they do that, it further diminishes Patterson's value. Its already pretty low with regard to kickoffs since most kicks go through the endzone and a 35 yard return only gets you out to the 25, where you would have been if you had Linval back there downing them in the endzone.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:

First, I don't think Patterson would be a good punt returner.



Curious as to why? I truly believe that he is probably the most dangerous player in the NFL with the ball in his hands. Especially in the open field. Devin Hester was a great kick returner as is CP. Hester was also a good punt returner. Not sure why you think CP wouldnt be a good punt returner

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:

First, I don't think Patterson would be a good punt returner.



Curious as to why? I truly believe that he is probably the most dangerous player in the NFL with the ball in his hands. Especially in the open field. Devin Hester was a great kick returner as is CP. Hester was also a good punt returner. Not sure why you think CP wouldnt be a good punt returner


It takes a lot more composure to return punts. There are guys on top of you and you have to make snap decisions. I've seen Patterson let a live ball bounce around in the end zone way too often to be comfotable having him return punts. His awareness is not his strong suit.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:

First, I don't think Patterson would be a good punt returner.



Curious as to why? I truly believe that he is probably the most dangerous player in the NFL with the ball in his hands. Especially in the open field. Devin Hester was a great kick returner as is CP. Hester was also a good punt returner. Not sure why you think CP wouldnt be a good punt returner


It takes a lot more composure to return punts. There are guys on top of you and you have to make snap decisions. I've seen Patterson let a live ball bounce around in the end zone way too often to be comfotable having him return punts. His awareness is not his strong suit.


I mean that sounds like a pretty poor reason to think someone is a bad punt returner. Just because he lets balls go over his head to hit the back 2 yards of the endzone just to bounce out of bounds doesnt really translate to catching punts. I could be wrong but I just dont see any reason to say he would be a bad punt returner.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I mean that sounds like a pretty poor reason to think someone is a bad punt returner. Just because he lets balls go over his head to hit the back 2 yards of the endzone just to bounce out of bounds doesnt really translate to catching punts. I could be wrong but I just dont see any reason to say he would be a bad punt returner.


I'm sure he'd be great at it.

Pay him the big bucks!

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I mean that sounds like a pretty poor reason to think someone is a bad punt returner. Just because he lets balls go over his head to hit the back 2 yards of the endzone just to bounce out of bounds doesnt really translate to catching punts. I could be wrong but I just dont see any reason to say he would be a bad punt returner.


I'm sure he'd be great at it.

Pay him the big bucks!


.....because that's what I was implying :confused:

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I mean that sounds like a pretty poor reason to think someone is a bad punt returner. Just because he lets balls go over his head to hit the back 2 yards of the endzone just to bounce out of bounds doesnt really translate to catching punts. I could be wrong but I just dont see any reason to say he would be a bad punt returner.


I'm sure he'd be great at it.

Pay him the big bucks!


.....because that's what I was implying :confused:


The discussion was taking place in that context, but in anycase, don't you think if he were as good at returning punts as he is a returning kicks, we'd have seen him doing it some? When Sherels was out, they used Thielen, why?

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
The discussion was taking place in that context, but in anycase, don't you think if he were as good at returning punts as he is a returning kicks, we'd have seen him doing it some? When Sherels was out, they used Thielen, why?


Who knows? That could be something we never know unless they came out and said it. Either way, Thielen proved he really couldn't do it very well either.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The discussion was taking place in that context, but in anycase, don't you think if he were as good at returning punts as he is a returning kicks, we'd have seen him doing it some? When Sherels was out, they used Thielen, why?


Who knows? That could be something we never know unless they came out and said it. Either way, Thielen proved he really couldn't do it very well either.


exactly.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:

First, I don't think Patterson would be a good punt returner.

Yes, the NFL has been making a lot of rumblings about getting rid of the kick return and they did reduce the relevance of the KR by moving the mark up. The whole rational for that was 'player safety' and wanted to reduce the number of kick returns taken out of the endzone in the first place. I think its widely understood that their goal was to increase touchbacks to the point that there is no longer any reason to bother with Kickoffs and they can simply get rid of it. If they do that, it further diminishes Patterson's value. Its already pretty low with regard to kickoffs since most kicks go through the endzone and a 35 yard return only gets you out to the 25, where you would have been if you had Linval back there downing them in the endzone.


I guess I don't care about Patterson ever returning punts, since he hasn't done it up to this point. Besides, my point was Patterson being a good punt gunner, not a returner. And CP is a good gunner. The guy is a valuable special teams player.

I seriously doubt kickoffs will be removed from the NFL. Moving the mark up didn't do much to Patterson, who was an All-Pro kick returner once again. His return abilities have to be figured into the equation because he is the best in the NFL at it. And he didn't get that way from downing kicks in the end zone. Maybe Linval would avoid returns but not Patterson.


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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The discussion was taking place in that context, but in anycase, don't you think if he were as good at returning punts as he is a returning kicks, we'd have seen him doing it some? When Sherels was out, they used Thielen, why?


Who knows? That could be something we never know unless they came out and said it. Either way, Thielen proved he really couldn't do it very well either.


exactly.


Ok? I'm saying it wouldnt hurt to try CP if Sherels went down. Just because you didnt like how a couple kicks landed behind him doesnt mean he cant return punts.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
losperros wrote:
fiestavike wrote:

First, I don't think Patterson would be a good punt returner.

Yes, the NFL has been making a lot of rumblings about getting rid of the kick return and they did reduce the relevance of the KR by moving the mark up. The whole rational for that was 'player safety' and wanted to reduce the number of kick returns taken out of the endzone in the first place. I think its widely understood that their goal was to increase touchbacks to the point that there is no longer any reason to bother with Kickoffs and they can simply get rid of it. If they do that, it further diminishes Patterson's value. Its already pretty low with regard to kickoffs since most kicks go through the endzone and a 35 yard return only gets you out to the 25, where you would have been if you had Linval back there downing them in the endzone.


I guess I don't care about Patterson ever returning punts, since he hasn't done it up to this point. Besides, my point was Patterson being a good punt gunner, not a returner. And CP is a good gunner. The guy is a valuable special teams player.

I seriously doubt kickoffs will be removed from the NFL. Moving the mark up didn't do much to Patterson, who was an All-Pro kick returner once again. His return abilities have to be figured into the equation because he is the best in the NFL at it. And he didn't get that way from downing kicks in the end zone. Maybe Linval would avoid returns but not Patterson.




http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post ... ff-returns
Quote:
One day, it has long been assumed, the NFL will outlaw the kickoff. It's one of the most dangerous plays in football, a sub-concussive factory, and as New York Giants owner John Mara said just this week: "You've got to do whatever you can to protect [players]."

Here's another idea: What if the league manages a passive end to the kickoff, one that functionally eliminates its impact without formally banning it?

We might be moving in that direction already, and there will be no doubt if owners approve a proposal to move the touchback to the 25-yard line for 2016. The NFL competition committee has endorsed the idea, and a vote is expected here this week.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Ok? I'm saying it wouldnt hurt to try CP if Sherels went down. Just because you didnt like how a couple kicks landed behind him doesnt mean he cant return punts.


You are being obtuse.

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Post Re: Shurmur: Offseason will be critical for Laquon Treadwell
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Ok? I'm saying it wouldnt hurt to try CP if Sherels went down. Just because you didnt like how a couple kicks landed behind him doesnt mean he cant return punts.


You are being obtuse.


Well I'm over it at this point

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