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 TRADES! Young capital on the Market? 
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
But the thing is, if we traded Treadwell, what would we even get? Like a 3rd-4th round pick? That's not even one bit worth it. I honestly don't even know why it's being discussed


Many fans seem to like discussing hypothetical trades. I think it's as simple as that. Think of it in the same spirit as your mock offseason posts.

I think packaging Treadwell in a trade to acquire a proven player at a position of need could make sense. It might even make sense to package him as part of a trade to move up in the draft IF the Vikes felt confident they were getting a better player at a position of need.

None of these scenarios is particularly likely to happen.


Right. My main reason for saying that is I just don't see it as being realistic. And we would look pretty bad if he went and played well somewhere else and I could see that happening

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Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:57 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Texas Vike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I don't understand the point of trading Treadwell. We don't even know what we have in him. If he goes and explodes somewhere else, everyone and their mother will be calling for Spielmans head on here. You gotta see what you have in him before you just trade him because he did nothing in ONE year. Just doesn't make much sense



Honestly, I don't see trades as a viable way to fix our OL problems. But, in line with the implausible premise of this thread, I proposed Treadwell as a better option to be traded than Diggs. Treadwell is a mystery to the league and it wasn't so long ago that he was taken in the first round. I would bet that there is a team with a dearth of talent at WR that would be willing to part with a draft pick to acquire his talents or with a decent OL talent. But my preference would be to not trade him. We need to acquire talent at OL, but I don't think trades are the way to do it.

I wouldn't want to lose Diggs or Thielen. I see those guys as centerpieces of our O moving forward.


Is it really that implausible? There O line and running game are horrible. FA and the Draft may not pan out they way they are hoping, who knows. If they aren't looking at trades as an option to fill those voids, they should be! WR is a position group where they have options, there deep at WR. I wouldn't hesitate to move any one of there WR if we could get a solid O linemen.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:00 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Honestly, I don't see trades as a viable way to fix our OL problems. But, in line with the implausible premise of this thread, I proposed Treadwell as a better option to be traded than Diggs. Treadwell is a mystery to the league and it wasn't so long ago that he was taken in the first round. I would bet that there is a team with a dearth of talent at WR that would be willing to part with a draft pick to acquire his talents or with a decent OL talent. But my preference would be to not trade him. We need to acquire talent at OL, but I don't think trades are the way to do it.

I wouldn't want to lose Diggs or Thielen. I see those guys as centerpieces of our O moving forward.



Honestly, I'd trade any one of them for a good starting tackle but a good starting tackle would probably cost more than that.



I would too. Diggs may yield enough value to get them a solid tackle. I don't see anyone else doing it though. They have some players on the Defensive side of the ball that would. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand is what its going to take to fix our O line ( I am not referring to you). Its a disaster. They team is going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere if they are truly in "Win Now" mode like they have suggested.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:11 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Right. My main reason for saying that is I just don't see it as being realistic. And we would look pretty bad if he went and played well somewhere else and I could see that happening


Trade talk is rarely realistic in terms of it being likely to actually happen.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:12 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
Honestly, I don't see trades as a viable way to fix our OL problems. But, in line with the implausible premise of this thread, I proposed Treadwell as a better option to be traded than Diggs. Treadwell is a mystery to the league and it wasn't so long ago that he was taken in the first round. I would bet that there is a team with a dearth of talent at WR that would be willing to part with a draft pick to acquire his talents or with a decent OL talent. But my preference would be to not trade him. We need to acquire talent at OL, but I don't think trades are the way to do it.

I wouldn't want to lose Diggs or Thielen. I see those guys as centerpieces of our O moving forward.



Honestly, I'd trade any one of them for a good starting tackle but a good starting tackle would probably cost more than that.



I would too. Diggs may yield enough value to get them a solid tackle. I don't see anyone else doing it though. They have some players on the Defensive side of the ball that would. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand is what its going to take to fix our O line ( I am not referring to you). Its a disaster. They team is going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere if they are truly in "Win Now" mode like they have suggested.


I understand the premise that it will take a major effort to fix the feces pile that is our OL, I just would prefer to move Treadwell than Diggs. And most of all, I'd rather not trade either. If you and PHP are of a different mind, great. The remoteness of any of these possibilities prevents me from caring too much, really.

To play along (and not be a downer in your thread): It would make more sense to me to move Everson. I think Zimmer could deal with losing talent on the defensive side of things much better than to muck up any offensive group.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:12 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Right. My main reason for saying that is I just don't see it as being realistic. And we would look pretty bad if he went and played well somewhere else and I could see that happening


Trade talk is rarely realistic in terms of it being likely to actually happen.


Exactly.

And if ANY player we traded turned around and played well elsewhere, we would look bad. I can imagine Patterson excelling elsewhere too. Diggs is probably the most likely of all to be a genuine star. That's the thing with trades....


Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:14 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
I would too. Diggs may yield enough value to get them a solid tackle.


Solid starting tackles are at somewhat pf a premium in the NFL these days so it might take more than Diggs to get one.

Quote:
I don't see anyone else doing it though. They have some players on the Defensive side of the ball that would. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand is what its going to take to fix our O line ( I am not referring to you). Its a disaster. They team is going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere if they are truly in "Win Now" mode like they have suggested.


I agree that it's going to be very difficult to fix the OL in one offseason, probably impossible. If they are going to do it, it might take some unorthodox moves like trading young talent. They've put themselves in a truly awful position along the OL.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:17 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan, yeah our OL is bad but it doesn't mean we have to trade key players away.

When you break it down:

As of right now:
Center and Left guard are good. Boone is set. Berger is getting old but that's a position we can assess the following offseason. Berger is one of the better centers in the league so we don't have to assess it this year.

That leaves LT, RT and RG.

Starting with RG: Fusco should be cut. Harris is still under contract but a gamble since he's a mystery right now. This is a position I can see us drafting OR look to sign Zeitler or a different guard that's decent. So no need to trade anyone here.

Onto RT: I'm all for signing Ricky Wagner and by no means is it out of the question to do that. We will have the space. IMO we HAVE to sign one free agent OT. I can't see us finding a LT and RT in one draft without a first round pick. Also doesn't require us trading for anyone.

As for LT: I think we need to resign Kalil. He's not getting a long term given his injury history and play. I can see us giving him a 2 year deal. Or maybe with like a 2nd year option. Definitely feasible. AND we need to draft at least one tackle to compete with him and hopefully turn that tackle into our future LT. Maybe with our 2nd. This as well requires us to trade for nobody. Then we grab cheap depth along the way

So along with this scenario and many, many others, there are ways to "fixing" this OL without trading away our better players.

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Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:20 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:29 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
fiestavike wrote:
The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.



If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.


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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.



If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.


The same way it lead the Broncos nowhere in 15'.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:08 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.



If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.


I wouldn't have retained Shurmur, but given the path there on, there is a certain rational to that approach.

edit* I agree it will lead nowhere.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:29 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
fiestavike wrote:
The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.


I completely agree with that. And like I said, we will have the money and the picks (even without a first). We still have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds. Spielman and Zim showed last year that they are willing to dip into bigger FA OL. We were going after Osemele first but I don't blame us for passing on him since he got 60 mill. Boone was definitely the better option. Not quite as good of a player but much better from a financial standpoint

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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.



If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.


The same way it lead the Broncos nowhere in 15'.


:lol: If we're lucky, sure!


Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:29 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Alaskan, yeah our OL is bad but it doesn't mean we have to trade key players away.

When you break it down:

As of right now:
Center and Left guard are good. Boone is set. Berger is getting old but that's a position we can assess the following offseason. Berger is one of the better centers in the league so we don't have to assess it this year.

That leaves LT, RT and RG.

Starting with RG: Fusco should be cut. Harris is still under contract but a gamble since he's a mystery right now. This is a position I can see us drafting OR look to sign Zeitler or a different guard that's decent. So no need to trade anyone here.

Onto RT: I'm all for signing Ricky Wagner and by no means is it out of the question to do that. We will have the space. IMO we HAVE to sign one free agent OT. I can't see us finding a LT and RT in one draft without a first round pick. Also doesn't require us trading for anyone.

As for LT: I think we need to resign Kalil. He's not getting a long term given his injury history and play. I can see us giving him a 2 year deal. Or maybe with like a 2nd year option. Definitely feasible. AND we need to draft at least one tackle to compete with him and hopefully turn that tackle into our future LT. Maybe with our 2nd. This as well requires us to trade for nobody.

So along with this scenario and many, many others, there are ways to "fixing" this OL without trading away our better players.


I've seen your Mock. Its a good Mock. I could pick it apart, but why. I have my doubts it will play out that way. Its not like we are the only team looking for O linemen. I am not saying we should just trade away our better players, but if it is a value play to trade some of our better players to improve our overall football team, I am all for it.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:36 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Alaskan, yeah our OL is bad but it doesn't mean we have to trade key players away.

When you break it down:

As of right now:
Center and Left guard are good. Boone is set. Berger is getting old but that's a position we can assess the following offseason. Berger is one of the better centers in the league so we don't have to assess it this year.

That leaves LT, RT and RG.

Starting with RG: Fusco should be cut. Harris is still under contract but a gamble since he's a mystery right now. This is a position I can see us drafting OR look to sign Zeitler or a different guard that's decent. So no need to trade anyone here.

Onto RT: I'm all for signing Ricky Wagner and by no means is it out of the question to do that. We will have the space. IMO we HAVE to sign one free agent OT. I can't see us finding a LT and RT in one draft without a first round pick. Also doesn't require us trading for anyone.

As for LT: I think we need to resign Kalil. He's not getting a long term given his injury history and play. I can see us giving him a 2 year deal. Or maybe with like a 2nd year option. Definitely feasible. AND we need to draft at least one tackle to compete with him and hopefully turn that tackle into our future LT. Maybe with our 2nd. This as well requires us to trade for nobody.

So along with this scenario and many, many others, there are ways to "fixing" this OL without trading away our better players.


I've seen your Mock. Its a good Mock. I could pick it apart, but why. I have my doubts it will play out that way. Its not like we are the only team looking for O linemen. I am not saying we should just trade away our better players, but if it is a value play to trade some of our better players to improve our overall football team, I am all for it.


I understand where you're coming from. I just think there are a lot more possibilities to fix the OL other than trading

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Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:46 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
TexasVike,

Don't worry about being a downer on my account. Its your opinion, your entitled it. I don't agree, but it doesn't mean your opinion is less valuable. I understand your concern's with trading Diggs. Griffen would be an option to trade. A good one IMO. Patriots just got a 2nd and a O linemen for Chandler Jones a year ago.

I know its not all that common anymore in the NFL and most people don't consider it to be a realistic option for the Vikings to make a trade or trades, and that's fine. I happen to think it should be looked at seriously by the organization, there are some players I feel we could "flip" for great value and not miss all that much. The Patriots, just in the last year have traded away some of there top defensive talent (Jones & Collins) and still had the #1 Defense in the league from a points allowed standpoint. They also added Bennett, Rowe and Van Noy via trades this year.....so talk about trades not being an option, realistic or beneficial all you want, the best organization in the modern era has used them successfully.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:07 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Blockbuster trades really don't happen these days. The Bradford trade was an exception. Look at trades over the last year, its mostly trades of late round picks for players people don't know about.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/transactions/trade/


Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:17 am
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
720pete wrote:
Blockbuster trades really don't happen these days. The Bradford trade was an exception. Look at trades over the last year, its mostly trades of late round picks for players people don't know about.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/transactions/trade/


Yes thats another reason I say a lot of this talk is unrealistic

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Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:25 am
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
TexasVike,

Don't worry about being a downer on my account. Its your opinion, your entitled it. I don't agree, but it doesn't mean your opinion is less valuable. I understand your concern's with trading Diggs. Griffen would be an option to trade. A good one IMO. Patriots just got a 2nd and a O linemen for Chandler Jones a year ago.

I know its not all that common anymore in the NFL and most people don't consider it to be a realistic option for the Vikings to make a trade or trades, and that's fine. I happen to think it should be looked at seriously by the organization, there are some players I feel we could "flip" for great value and not miss all that much. The Patriots, just in the last year have traded away some of there top defensive talent (Jones & Collins) and still had the #1 Defense in the league from a points allowed standpoint. They also added Bennett, Rowe and Van Noy via trades this year.....so talk about trades not being an option, realistic or beneficial all you want, the best organization in the modern era has used them successfully.


Griffen is an interesting one although I would be hesitant as he's not only a great player but also one of the leaders on the team. Especially if Greenway retires, there'd be a tangible drop in leadership. But he might be one of the few realistic options. I don't think they can trade Diggs especially if AD doesn't come back. Trading Treadwell would be buying high and selling low.

If the Vikings didn't have so many picks in this draft I would consider this more heavily but restructuring/moving on from AD plus all the "prove it" contracts expiring, I think they should be able to build a line via FA & draft. I'd rather they keep the team nucleus intact as long as possible.


Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:57 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
S197 wrote:
Alaskan wrote:
TexasVike,

Don't worry about being a downer on my account. Its your opinion, your entitled it. I don't agree, but it doesn't mean your opinion is less valuable. I understand your concern's with trading Diggs. Griffen would be an option to trade. A good one IMO. Patriots just got a 2nd and a O linemen for Chandler Jones a year ago.

I know its not all that common anymore in the NFL and most people don't consider it to be a realistic option for the Vikings to make a trade or trades, and that's fine. I happen to think it should be looked at seriously by the organization, there are some players I feel we could "flip" for great value and not miss all that much. The Patriots, just in the last year have traded away some of there top defensive talent (Jones & Collins) and still had the #1 Defense in the league from a points allowed standpoint. They also added Bennett, Rowe and Van Noy via trades this year.....so talk about trades not being an option, realistic or beneficial all you want, the best organization in the modern era has used them successfully.


Griffen is an interesting one although I would be hesitant as he's not only a great player but also one of the leaders on the team. Especially if Greenway retires, there'd be a tangible drop in leadership. But he might be one of the few realistic options. I don't think they can trade Diggs especially if AD doesn't come back. Trading Treadwell would be buying high and selling low.

If the Vikings didn't have so many picks in this draft I would consider this more heavily but restructuring/moving on from AD plus all the "prove it" contracts expiring, I think they should be able to build a line via FA & draft. I'd rather they keep the team nucleus intact as long as possible.



Good points! Griffen is a leader on this team and that definitely adds to his value. This is most likely the way it will pan out. Diggs only came up for me because I think they could buy low sell high with him. He's very unlikely to be going anywhere as he's probably a top canidate for face of the franchise if AD leaves.

Mostly, I thought it would be interesting/fun to talk about trades and value of existing personnel on the trade market during this time of year when not much is going on in the Football world. Kind of like a Mock. It didn't really work out as I planned.....I should have steered the thread a little better I guess.

I do believe the team should seriously look to improve through possible trades though. It works for the Patriots.


Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:16 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
I think it's been a good discussion and you had some interesting scenarios. One of the things you brought home is trading means sacrifice if you want someone good. Some feel as though we can trade a Jarius Wright or equivalent and get a decent pick or player. That's just not realistic, if he has little value here he's going to have little value in trade.


Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:22 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
720pete wrote:
Blockbuster trades really don't happen these days. The Bradford trade was an exception. Look at trades over the last year, its mostly trades of late round picks for players people don't know about.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/transactions/trade/


Great link. Looks to me like the Patriots build a large part of there Defense thorough trades and added some important pieces on Offense as well. Several successfully teams were active.

Doesn't have to be a Blockbuster trade to improve the football team. A lot of things can add value, dumping a player who is going to ask for big money, adding a player, creating cap room, getting additional picks etc..... Trades can be an effective tool, they shouldn't be discounted as unrealistic....its simply not true.


Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:27 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
S197 wrote:
I think it's been a good discussion and you had some interesting scenarios. One of the things you brought home is trading means sacrifice if you want someone good. Some feel as though we can trade a Jarius Wright or equivalent and get a decent pick or player. That's just not realistic, if he has little value here he's going to have little value in trade.


I dont think he has little value here. It's just we have a lot of depth at that position. There are a lot of teams out there that could really utilize him as a slot WR or even as a #2 in some cases. The Patriots traded AJ Derby.....

let me repeat.....

AJ Derby to the Denver Broncos for a 5th round pick. Granted the guy is younger and costs less than Wright but Wright is definitely the superior player. I think we can get a 6th for the guy if the situation was right.

But either way, nobody on here seems to be saying we can get a good player for Wright. Or a good pick. But he definitely holds trade value. We could get a depth-type OL for him or a 6-7th round pick for sure. We don't have to trade a good player away to get a good player. I mean if we HAD to trade then yeah. But we are at the point where we dont HAVE to and can pick through the draft and FA

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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
S197 wrote:
I think it's been a good discussion and you had some interesting scenarios. One of the things you brought home is trading means sacrifice if you want someone good. Some feel as though we can trade a Jarius Wright or equivalent and get a decent pick or player. That's just not realistic, if he has little value here he's going to have little value in trade.


Agree with your point. I understand you were using Jarius Wright as an example to make your point. Having said that, I see Wright's value as possible late round pick or project o linemen. More than that it would free up some more cap space. Depending what they do with the FA receivers, they may dump him for whatever they can get.


Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:41 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/ ... nterested/

Thought it was worth sharing. They have more pressing needs, but might be a value here. Philly doesn't seem to value him much in there current system.


Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:35 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/02/eagles-looking-trade-lb-mychal-kendricks-will-vikings-interested/

Thought it was worth sharing. They have more pressing needs, but might be a value here. Philly doesn't seem to value him much in there current system.


Sure, I'd be interested.


Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:51 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
Alaskan wrote:
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/02/eagles-looking-trade-lb-mychal-kendricks-will-vikings-interested/

Thought it was worth sharing. They have more pressing needs, but might be a value here. Philly doesn't seem to value him much in there current system.

I'd pass.


Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:20 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
S197 wrote:
Alaskan wrote:
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/02/eagles-looking-trade-lb-mychal-kendricks-will-vikings-interested/

Thought it was worth sharing. They have more pressing needs, but might be a value here. Philly doesn't seem to value him much in there current system.

I'd pass.


I didn't read the article but for me it would depend on what Philly wanted. Greenway is probably retiring and Barr seemed to regress some, so you never know about where the Vikings will be with their LB corps.

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Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:47 pm
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Post Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?
S197 wrote:
Alaskan wrote:
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/02/eagles-looking-trade-lb-mychal-kendricks-will-vikings-interested/

Thought it was worth sharing. They have more pressing needs, but might be a value here. Philly doesn't seem to value him much in there current system.

I'd pass.


Given the salary, I can't see they'd get more than a 6th or 7th. Mychal would be a great addition in base 4-3 manning the middle. I'd give a 6th round pick for that.


Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:12 pm
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