TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:57 pm

Mothman wrote: Many fans seem to like discussing hypothetical trades. I think it's as simple as that. Think of it in the same spirit as your mock offseason posts.

I think packaging Treadwell in a trade to acquire a proven player at a position of need could make sense. It might even make sense to package him as part of a trade to move up in the draft IF the Vikes felt confident they were getting a better player at a position of need.

None of these scenarios is particularly likely to happen.
Right. My main reason for saying that is I just don't see it as being realistic. And we would look pretty bad if he went and played well somewhere else and I could see that happening
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Alaskan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:00 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Honestly, I don't see trades as a viable way to fix our OL problems. But, in line with the implausible premise of this thread, I proposed Treadwell as a better option to be traded than Diggs. Treadwell is a mystery to the league and it wasn't so long ago that he was taken in the first round. I would bet that there is a team with a dearth of talent at WR that would be willing to part with a draft pick to acquire his talents or with a decent OL talent. But my preference would be to not trade him. We need to acquire talent at OL, but I don't think trades are the way to do it.

I wouldn't want to lose Diggs or Thielen. I see those guys as centerpieces of our O moving forward.
Is it really that implausible? There O line and running game are horrible. FA and the Draft may not pan out they way they are hoping, who knows. If they aren't looking at trades as an option to fill those voids, they should be! WR is a position group where they have options, there deep at WR. I wouldn't hesitate to move any one of there WR if we could get a solid O linemen.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Alaskan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:11 pm

Mothman wrote:
Honestly, I'd trade any one of them for a good starting tackle but a good starting tackle would probably cost more than that.

I would too. Diggs may yield enough value to get them a solid tackle. I don't see anyone else doing it though. They have some players on the Defensive side of the ball that would. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand is what its going to take to fix our O line ( I am not referring to you). Its a disaster. They team is going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere if they are truly in "Win Now" mode like they have suggested.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Mothman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:12 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Right. My main reason for saying that is I just don't see it as being realistic. And we would look pretty bad if he went and played well somewhere else and I could see that happening
Trade talk is rarely realistic in terms of it being likely to actually happen.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:12 pm

Alaskan wrote:
I would too. Diggs may yield enough value to get them a solid tackle. I don't see anyone else doing it though. They have some players on the Defensive side of the ball that would. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand is what its going to take to fix our O line ( I am not referring to you). Its a disaster. They team is going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere if they are truly in "Win Now" mode like they have suggested.
I understand the premise that it will take a major effort to fix the feces pile that is our OL, I just would prefer to move Treadwell than Diggs. And most of all, I'd rather not trade either. If you and PHP are of a different mind, great. The remoteness of any of these possibilities prevents me from caring too much, really.

To play along (and not be a downer in your thread): It would make more sense to me to move Everson. I think Zimmer could deal with losing talent on the defensive side of things much better than to muck up any offensive group.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:14 pm

Mothman wrote: Trade talk is rarely realistic in terms of it being likely to actually happen.
Exactly.

And if ANY player we traded turned around and played well elsewhere, we would look bad. I can imagine Patterson excelling elsewhere too. Diggs is probably the most likely of all to be a genuine star. That's the thing with trades....
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Mothman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:17 pm

Alaskan wrote:I would too. Diggs may yield enough value to get them a solid tackle.


Solid starting tackles are at somewhat pf a premium in the NFL these days so it might take more than Diggs to get one.
I don't see anyone else doing it though. They have some players on the Defensive side of the ball that would. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand is what its going to take to fix our O line ( I am not referring to you). Its a disaster. They team is going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere if they are truly in "Win Now" mode like they have suggested.
I agree that it's going to be very difficult to fix the OL in one offseason, probably impossible. If they are going to do it, it might take some unorthodox moves like trading young talent. They've put themselves in a truly awful position along the OL.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:20 pm

Alaskan, yeah our OL is bad but it doesn't mean we have to trade key players away.

When you break it down:

As of right now:
Center and Left guard are good. Boone is set. Berger is getting old but that's a position we can assess the following offseason. Berger is one of the better centers in the league so we don't have to assess it this year.

That leaves LT, RT and RG.

Starting with RG: Fusco should be cut. Harris is still under contract but a gamble since he's a mystery right now. This is a position I can see us drafting OR look to sign Zeitler or a different guard that's decent. So no need to trade anyone here.

Onto RT: I'm all for signing Ricky Wagner and by no means is it out of the question to do that. We will have the space. IMO we HAVE to sign one free agent OT. I can't see us finding a LT and RT in one draft without a first round pick. Also doesn't require us trading for anyone.

As for LT: I think we need to resign Kalil. He's not getting a long term given his injury history and play. I can see us giving him a 2 year deal. Or maybe with like a 2nd year option. Definitely feasible. AND we need to draft at least one tackle to compete with him and hopefully turn that tackle into our future LT. Maybe with our 2nd. This as well requires us to trade for nobody. Then we grab cheap depth along the way

So along with this scenario and many, many others, there are ways to "fixing" this OL without trading away our better players.
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:29 pm

The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Mothman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:00 pm

fiestavike wrote:The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.

If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Alaskan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:08 pm

Mothman wrote:
If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.
The same way it lead the Broncos nowhere in 15'.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:29 pm

Mothman wrote:
If so, I suspect that will lead them exactly nowhere.
I wouldn't have retained Shurmur, but given the path there on, there is a certain rational to that approach.

edit* I agree it will lead nowhere.
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:24 pm

fiestavike wrote:The good news about going with Shurmur is that they don't need to build an elite OL up front. They may find they have sufficient answers in middling players like a healthy Kalil, Rashod Hill, Jeremiah Sirles, Alex Boone, etc. A couple more middling players would yield enough improvement to make overinvestment in the position a waste of resources, given that we are going to a quick passing game. Build it from scraps and get the offense to the middle of the pack. I think that's the idea they are operating on.
I completely agree with that. And like I said, we will have the money and the picks (even without a first). We still have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds. Spielman and Zim showed last year that they are willing to dip into bigger FA OL. We were going after Osemele first but I don't blame us for passing on him since he got 60 mill. Boone was definitely the better option. Not quite as good of a player but much better from a financial standpoint
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Mothman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:29 pm

Alaskan wrote: The same way it lead the Broncos nowhere in 15'.
:lol: If we're lucky, sure!
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Re: TRADES! Young capital on the Market?

Post by Alaskan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:36 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Alaskan, yeah our OL is bad but it doesn't mean we have to trade key players away.

When you break it down:

As of right now:
Center and Left guard are good. Boone is set. Berger is getting old but that's a position we can assess the following offseason. Berger is one of the better centers in the league so we don't have to assess it this year.

That leaves LT, RT and RG.

Starting with RG: Fusco should be cut. Harris is still under contract but a gamble since he's a mystery right now. This is a position I can see us drafting OR look to sign Zeitler or a different guard that's decent. So no need to trade anyone here.

Onto RT: I'm all for signing Ricky Wagner and by no means is it out of the question to do that. We will have the space. IMO we HAVE to sign one free agent OT. I can't see us finding a LT and RT in one draft without a first round pick. Also doesn't require us trading for anyone.

As for LT: I think we need to resign Kalil. He's not getting a long term given his injury history and play. I can see us giving him a 2 year deal. Or maybe with like a 2nd year option. Definitely feasible. AND we need to draft at least one tackle to compete with him and hopefully turn that tackle into our future LT. Maybe with our 2nd. This as well requires us to trade for nobody.

So along with this scenario and many, many others, there are ways to "fixing" this OL without trading away our better players.
I've seen your Mock. Its a good Mock. I could pick it apart, but why. I have my doubts it will play out that way. Its not like we are the only team looking for O linemen. I am not saying we should just trade away our better players, but if it is a value play to trade some of our better players to improve our overall football team, I am all for it.
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