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 What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class? 
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Post What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
http://www.startribune.com/what-to-make ... 412431223/

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There are more questions than answers when looking back at Rick Spielman’s quietest rookie draft class since he took full control as General Manager five years ago.

Each player in the Vikings’ 2016 draft class, which produced the fewest offensive and defensive snaps among all rookie groups in the NFL, faced different road blocks between poor practices, injury or a lack of opportunity. The latter is why Spielman, who last spring assessed a roster with veterans approaching free agency in key spots, said he traded back from the third to sixth round in last year’s draft to add via trade with Miami third- and fourth-round picks this spring.


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Treadwell surprisingly led Vikings rookies on offense and defense, just ahead of Kearse (78 snaps), Alexander (68) and sixth-round tight end David Morgan (63). They didn’t have a single rookie surpass 100 snaps on their respective side, something six 2015 rookies did for the Vikings. It was by far the least involved rookie class under Spielman, according to snap counts compiled by Football Outsiders.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:19 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
All I think it really says is that this is the most depth we've ever had since Spielman has been here. Which isnt surprising since he started a complete rebuild in 2012. I mean you look at the top two picks which were WR and CB. We have decent depth at WR (Had much less last offseason but had a few surprises in CP and Thielen) and CB was loaded from top to bottom. I still dont believe either were bad picks. But at the time, we desperately needed a WR and Munnerlyn was going into a contract year and Newman was on the verge of retirement. I think they were smart picks and somewhat along the BPA approach. It's just that we werent as desperate as most thought at those positions when everything got going.

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:28 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
rubbing salt in the wound......
poor drafting apparently, especially since there WERE injuries on starters and opportunities for most of these rookies to prove themselves...they just didnt come thru.

could there be an element of poor coaching, ie lack of skill at developing young talent? Or maybe a grizzled head coach who doesnt like to play rookies? I dont know but Zim does strike me as potentially one of those guys. He loves his old veterans.

Bradford did a really nice job going to a good variety of receivers so I dont think the problem was that he was one of those QBs who only likes to involve his security-blanket recievers. The rookies just didnt perform, didnt run routes well, didnt hold onto the ball when given the opportunities so they moved on from them.

As with the chronic OL problems, this all goes on Spielmans shoulders....his picks, his coahing choices

OH, and for Percy's Sake...let ME shoulder the burden by puttin the words in MY own mouth : I no longer have confidence in Spielman.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:28 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to draft a class that will see the field more than last years group. Even without a first rounder. If the Vikings could draft an actual offensive lineman that can go from day one it will be a miracle of miracles and if so it shouldn't be difficult to pass a hundo.

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:38 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
chicagopurple wrote:
rubbing salt in the wound......
poor drafting apparently, especially since there WERE injuries on starters and opportunities for most of these rookies to prove themselves...they just didnt come thru.

could there be an element of poor coaching, ie lack of skill at developing young talent? Or maybe a grizzled head coach who doesnt like to play rookies? I dont know but Zim does strike me as potentially one of those guys. He loves his old veterans.


the article did contain this line:

Quote:
Head coach Mike Zimmer has long stated his win-only philosophy toward playing time, evident as Alexander and safety Jayron Kearse were quickly pulled after mistakes in their rare appearances in the league’s third-ranked defense last season.


Quote:
Bradford did a really nice job going to a good variety of receivers so I dont think the problem was that he was one of those QBs who only likes to involve his security-blanket recievers. The rookies just didnt perform, didnt run routes well, didnt hold onto the ball when given the opportunities so they moved on from them.

As with the chronic OL problems, this all goes on Spielmans shoulders....his picks, his coahing choices

OH, and for Percy's Sake...let ME shoulder the burden by puttin the words in MY own mouth : I no longer have confidence in Spielman.


Obviously, I don't either.

It will be interesting to see if anybody from this last Vikings rookie class develops into a long term starter or even a quality NFL player. It's still too early to tell one way or another but the potential is obviously there for the whole class to be one big strikeout.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:59 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
I think it was a combination of things.
Morgan & Treadwell was injured some of the season. Morgan lost 3-4 weeks with a knee sprain.

Beavers as of right now, was just a bad pick.

Krease & Alexander were both way down on the depth chart. When they finally got a chance, they had a bad play and Zimmer sent them back to the bench.

Brothers had a great year on ST's, but a couple of them games we was getting run on he never got a chance.
That's what we drafted him for...

We was in need of a big back for short yardage and CJ ham was active a few games and never got a chance.
Don't really understand that.

I do agree, that on the Defensive side we do have a lot of depth.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:04 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
All I think it really says is that this is the most depth we've ever had since Spielman has been here.


Depth on one side of the ball - maybe. Even defensively, there are spots where I question if the depth we have is adequate (safety, defensive tackle, linebacker).

Offensively... What depth? Wide receiver is about the only position you can argue. Quarterback once Teddy is healthy (and if an adequate developmental guy is drafted to compete with T.H.).

This team still needs quality players and quality depth. We wouldn't have been an 8-8 squad if we already met that criteria.

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
All I think it really says is that this is the most depth we've ever had since Spielman has been here.


Depth on one side of the ball - maybe. Even defensively, there are spots where I question if the depth we have is adequate (safety, defensive tackle, linebacker).

Offensively... What depth? Wide receiver is about the only position you can argue. Quarterback once Teddy is healthy (and if an adequate developmental guy is drafted to compete with T.H.).

This team still needs quality players and quality depth. We wouldn't have been an 8-8 squad if we already met that criteria.


Well yeah WR is what I was referring to. Clearly not OL. QB would be one if Teddy is healthy.

Safety I didnt mind because Newman can play there plus Harris and Kearse are decent enough fill ins. LB, Lamur can play just about any spot and was better than Greenway IMO. Brothers and Cole can fill in at the middle. DT, if you look at a healthy roster, Joseph, Floyd, Stephen and Johnson is a solid group.

I never said they didnt need quality players and quality depth. If they didnt, I would guess we are in the SB.

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
chicagopurple wrote:
rubbing salt in the wound......
poor drafting apparently, especially since there WERE injuries on starters and opportunities for most of these rookies to prove themselves...they just didnt come thru.


There werent enough injuries to say so at CB. As for WR, we were healthy scratching Wright. We had a lot of depth there. I'm not sure how anyone could say it was poor drafting when you saw them in limited action. You could've said Waynes was poor drafting after his rookie year but was that really the case? No. So saying it's poor drafting is just you going in blind and taking the easy way out. Like I said millions of times on here and some fail to acknowledge.....Christian Ponder was a bust. He proved it. He had plenty of opportunities and was terrible. Jamarcus Russell was a bust. Same opportunities. Laquon Treadwell and Mackensie Alexander had what opportunities?? Not anywhere near as many as any of those "busts". But just since they didnt play much at positions of good depth, it was poor drafting?? Sorry, not buying that.

Quote:
could there be an element of poor coaching, ie lack of skill at developing young talent? Or maybe a grizzled head coach who doesnt like to play rookies? I dont know but Zim does strike me as potentially one of those guys. He loves his old veterans.


Zim has developed young talent quite well over the years in this league. So no, it's definitely not "poor coaching" or "lack of skill". I don't think he necessarily doesnt like to play rookies. He started guys like Barr and Kendricks out of the gate. I just think he feels there is no need to rush guys when there are already guys in those spots performing and thats exactly what happened at WR and CB.


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OH, and for Percy's Sake...let ME shoulder the burden by puttin the words in MY own mouth : I no longer have confidence in Spielman.


Tell me something I don't know. You've been Mr. Negative on here for at least a year now. Nor do I put words in anyones mouth but go ahead and drink that Koolaid too while you're at it. :roll:

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:15 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
tell me what OFFENSIVE talent Zim has "developed".....please

Is he a very good defensive coach, certainly. But a complete Head Coach who can handle and offense? I see NO evidence yet.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:02 am
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
chicagopurple wrote:
tell me what OFFENSIVE talent Zim has "developed".....please

Is he a very good defensive coach, certainly. But a complete Head Coach who can handle and offense? I see NO evidence yet.


I agree. I think Zimmer is a top notch defensive coach. However, as a Head Coach he has lacked vision for the offense, which has been a big disappointment since he took over.

I think it's possible Shurmur may actually have a sensible scheme this particular offense can use (if they repair the OL - a big IF). It seems Zimmer is on board and he claims to share Shurmur's vision, so perhaps we'll see the offense moving the ball and putting more points on the board. I sure hope so.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:29 am
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
chicagopurple wrote:
tell me what OFFENSIVE talent Zim has "developed".....please

Is he a very good defensive coach, certainly. But a complete Head Coach who can handle and offense? I see NO evidence yet.


You never specifically said he lacked skill in developing "offensive talent". You just said it in general. And if anything, he's been playing defensive rookies less than offensive the past few years. Hunter is better than Robison and still wasnt getting the start, Waynes barely played last year, Alexander barely played this year.

Why couldnt we say he developed Diggs, Thielen, CP? Rudolph has improved since he's been here?? Teddy looked on track this preseason. Do those guys not count or something?? I mean what arent you seeing evidence of?? Because Laquon Treadwell didnt produce this year that means he cant develop offensive players?? What standard are you holding him to? I'm not really sure who you expect him to develop on the OL. Not sure how you "develop" an ex-FB in Asiata or a 3rd down back in Mckinnon into a 3 down back. I'm pretty sure Zim was the one that had CP working with every outsider imaginable and got him to improve and grow up. So there is your answer.

I'm not sitting here trying to claim Zim is some offensive guru but to say he hasnt developed players on this offense is false because we had a lot of surprises this year on offense and have good players at skilled positions

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
CP hasnt bloomed as he should
Rudolph is simply a great mature talent and I dont think Zim made him what he is
Thielen IS a good example of progress
Bridgewater has NOT in anyway proven himself. He is just a big maybe who has shown no downfield passing threat. His biggest assets so far is that he is a nice kid who can throw the ball away rather then toss interceptions. His "progress" is nothing for Zim to brag about and giving the QB coaching job to Norv's Little Boy was Lame Nepotism as its worst.....again THAT is all on Spielman.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:54 am
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
chicagopurple wrote:
CP hasnt bloomed as he should
Rudolph is simply a great mature talent and I dont think Zim made him what he is
Thielen IS a good example of progress
Bridgewater has NOT in anyway proven himself. He is just a big maybe who has shown no downfield passing threat. His biggest assets so far is that he is a nice kid who can throw the ball away rather then toss interceptions. His "progress" is nothing for Zim to brag about and giving the QB coaching job to Norv's Little Boy was Lame Nepotism as its worst.....again THAT is all on Spielman.



Nothing regarding Bridgewater is verifiable since his leg exploded.

I am utterly disappointed with Zimmer's handling it strikes me as he came in thinking he could get a Former OC/Headcoach to pair with himself as as Former DC now head coach and essentially let the OC control the entirety of the offensive side of the club and only get involved on the big up/down official "headcoachy" calls.

Blew up, failed, crashed and burned.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:03 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
chicagopurple wrote:
tell me what OFFENSIVE talent Zim has "developed".....please

Is he a very good defensive coach, certainly. But a complete Head Coach who can handle and offense? I see NO evidence yet.


You never specifically said he lacked skill in developing "offensive talent". You just said it in general. And if anything, he's been playing defensive rookies less than offensive the past few years. Hunter is better than Robison and still wasnt getting the start, Waynes barely played last year, Alexander barely played this year.

Why couldnt we say he developed Diggs, Thielen, CP? Rudolph has improved since he's been here?? Teddy looked on track this preseason. Do those guys not count or something?? I mean what arent you seeing evidence of?? Because Laquon Treadwell didnt produce this year that means he cant develop offensive players?? What standard are you holding him to? I'm not really sure who you expect him to develop on the OL. Not sure how you "develop" an ex-FB in Asiata or a 3rd down back in Mckinnon into a 3 down back. I'm pretty sure Zim was the one that had CP working with every outsider imaginable and got him to improve and grow up. So there is your answer.

I'm not sitting here trying to claim Zim is some offensive guru but to say he hasnt developed players on this offense is false because we had a lot of surprises this year on offense and have good players at skilled positions


I agree with PHP here. Plus I would like to add...... some of the recent comments that Zim made in regards to Uncle Norv. If it is accurate he has said that Norv was not open to suggestion which is something we all had assumed. Even though Zim is the HC I think he let Norv run the show....put too much faith in him and it didn't pan out which reflects back on Zim. So yeah it is ultimately Zims baby but I'll be willing to bet he learned from that mistake and moving forward with Shurmur we will see an offense that will show a bit more urgency and input from Zim/others. Rebuilding the OL remains the most critical piece of the puzzle.......with the rest of the team/positions solid and for the most part fairly deep. I think most will agree that this offseason will be the most critical in recent memory in terms of fixing the OL and winning now. The window will not stay open for long.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:11 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
autobon7 wrote:
I agree with PHP here. Plus I would like to add...... some of the recent comments that Zim made in regards to Uncle Norv. If it is accurate he has said that Norv was not open to suggestion which is something we all had assumed. Even though Zim is the HC I think he let Norv run the show....put too much faith in him and it didn't pan out which reflects back on Zim. So yeah it is ultimately Zims baby but I'll be willing to bet he learned from that mistake and moving forward with Shurmur we will see an offense that will show a bit more urgency and input from Zim/others. Rebuilding the OL remains the most critical piece of the puzzle.......with the rest of the team/positions solid and for the most part fairly deep. I think most will agree that this offseason will be the most critical in recent memory in terms of fixing the OL and winning now. The window will not stay open for long.


I thought last season was the most critical in recent memory. :( Now I fear a championship window has likely closed before it truly opened.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:23 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
YUP


Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:25 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
chicagopurple wrote:
CP hasnt bloomed as he should


Bottom line is, he has matured and improved. He went from borderline bust to being much more of a factor. No matter what way you cut it, it's a sign of improvement and development

Quote:
Rudolph is simply a great mature talent and I dont think Zim made him what he is


I didnt say Zim "made him" but he also improved this year.


Quote:
Thielen IS a good example of progress


Yes.


Quote:
Bridgewater has NOT in anyway proven himself. He is just a big maybe who has shown no downfield passing threat. His biggest assets so far is that he is a nice kid who can throw the ball away rather then toss interceptions. His "progress" is nothing for Zim to brag about and giving the QB coaching job to Norv's Little Boy was Lame Nepotism as its worst.....again THAT is all on Spielman.


lol talk about putting words into mouths. I also never said Bridgewater has "proven himself". I just said that he was looking pretty promising in the preseason

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
autobon7 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
chicagopurple wrote:
tell me what OFFENSIVE talent Zim has "developed".....please

Is he a very good defensive coach, certainly. But a complete Head Coach who can handle and offense? I see NO evidence yet.


You never specifically said he lacked skill in developing "offensive talent". You just said it in general. And if anything, he's been playing defensive rookies less than offensive the past few years. Hunter is better than Robison and still wasnt getting the start, Waynes barely played last year, Alexander barely played this year.

Why couldnt we say he developed Diggs, Thielen, CP? Rudolph has improved since he's been here?? Teddy looked on track this preseason. Do those guys not count or something?? I mean what arent you seeing evidence of?? Because Laquon Treadwell didnt produce this year that means he cant develop offensive players?? What standard are you holding him to? I'm not really sure who you expect him to develop on the OL. Not sure how you "develop" an ex-FB in Asiata or a 3rd down back in Mckinnon into a 3 down back. I'm pretty sure Zim was the one that had CP working with every outsider imaginable and got him to improve and grow up. So there is your answer.

I'm not sitting here trying to claim Zim is some offensive guru but to say he hasnt developed players on this offense is false because we had a lot of surprises this year on offense and have good players at skilled positions


I agree with PHP here. Plus I would like to add...... some of the recent comments that Zim made in regards to Uncle Norv. If it is accurate he has said that Norv was not open to suggestion which is something we all had assumed. Even though Zim is the HC I think he let Norv run the show....put too much faith in him and it didn't pan out which reflects back on Zim. So yeah it is ultimately Zims baby but I'll be willing to bet he learned from that mistake and moving forward with Shurmur we will see an offense that will show a bit more urgency and input from Zim/others. Rebuilding the OL remains the most critical piece of the puzzle.......with the rest of the team/positions solid and for the most part fairly deep. I think most will agree that this offseason will be the most critical in recent memory in terms of fixing the OL and winning now. The window will not stay open for long.


Agreed as well.

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Mothman wrote:
autobon7 wrote:
I agree with PHP here. Plus I would like to add...... some of the recent comments that Zim made in regards to Uncle Norv. If it is accurate he has said that Norv was not open to suggestion which is something we all had assumed. Even though Zim is the HC I think he let Norv run the show....put too much faith in him and it didn't pan out which reflects back on Zim. So yeah it is ultimately Zims baby but I'll be willing to bet he learned from that mistake and moving forward with Shurmur we will see an offense that will show a bit more urgency and input from Zim/others. Rebuilding the OL remains the most critical piece of the puzzle.......with the rest of the team/positions solid and for the most part fairly deep. I think most will agree that this offseason will be the most critical in recent memory in terms of fixing the OL and winning now. The window will not stay open for long.


I thought last season was the most critical in recent memory. :( Now I fear a championship window has likely closed before it truly opened.


No. Last season was critical but I'm not going to sit here and say we drafted "bad". No less, we have the majority of this team coming back this year. So why all of the sudden has a window closed? This isnt the 2010 offseason where we had a team of old farts that were standing on their last leg and it was into complete rebuild mode after that. So to say that a window might have closed makes no sense to me. We still have Joseph, Griffen, Hunter, Robison, Stephen, Barr, Kendricks, Lamur, Rhodes, Waynes, Smith, Sendejo, Diggs, Rudolph, Thielen, Boone, Berger, Bradford. I mean that is a lot of talent right there. Then you have guys like Treadwell, Alexander, free agents we sign, and draft picks we get. It's not like these guys are just randomly going to disappear. This team has talent. So like I said, to say a door might have closed just doesnt make much sense to me. The door is most definitely still open because of the guys I just named above.

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
No. Last season was critical but I'm not going to sit here and say we drafted "bad". No less, we have the majority of this team coming back this year. So why all of the sudden has a window closed?


As I said, I don't think it had truly opened and now a huge rebuild is necessary on the OL, I think they're going to lose some key players and I'm not convinced the backups and youth behind those players will be able to step up and play at the same level, at least not at first.

Quote:
This isnt the 2010 offseason where we had a team of old farts that were standing on their last leg and it was into complete rebuild mode after that. So to say that a window might have closed makes no sense to me.We still have Joseph, Griffen, Hunter, Robison, Stephen, Barr, Kendricks, Lamur, Rhodes, Waynes, Smith, Sendejo, Diggs, Rudolph, Thielen, Boone, Berger, Bradford. I mean that is a lot of talent right there.


Some of it's pretty average talent and at least one or two of those players might not be back.

Quote:
It's not like these guys are just randomly going to disappear. This team has talent.


So does most of the competition. What's going to make the Vikes rise above the rest?

I just don't look at the Vikings and see a likely Super Bowl-winning roster or a roster that's just one offseason away from becoming one. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I have to call 'em like I see 'em.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:34 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Safety I didnt mind because Newman can play there


That is pure speculation. Safety and corner are completely different positions. Just because Newman is a good corner doesn't mean he can play safety effectively. Plus, retirement is still a major possibility for him.

The safety depth is a concern. Antone Exum even when healthy has shown nothing. Anthony Harris took a step back this year. I have hope for Jayron, but he looked lost when he had to play.

Quote:
LB, Lamur can play just about any spot and was better than Greenway IMO.


Jury is still out on Lamur for me. He has the athleticism, I will give him that. Not sure he is a starting-type player.

Quote:
Brothers and Cole can fill in at the middle.


Brothers looked great on special teams. Still, Brothers as a back-up/potential starter at linebacker is still a huge unknown. Cole is easily replaceable.

Quote:
DT, if you look at a healthy roster, Joseph, Floyd, Stephen and Johnson is a solid group.


I'd subtract Floyd from the group - as he did nothing this season. Plus, Floyd could be packing his bags. If Linval were to go down - then what? A tandem of an aging Toby Johnson and Stephen does not inspire a lot of confidence.

Quote:
I never said they didnt need quality players and quality depth. If they didnt, I would guess we are in the SB.


Never explicitly stated you did. Strange though, being on the other side of putting words in others' mouth - eh? :gone:

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Mothman wrote:

As I said, I don't think it had truly opened and now a huge rebuild is necessary on the OL, I think they're going to lose some key players and I'm not convinced the backups and youth behind those players will be able to step up and play at the same level, at least not at first.


I don't really think they're losing many key players. You continue to say that but I'm not sure where its coming from. We've been known to retain our own ever since Spielman has taken over.

Quote:

Some of it's pretty average talent and at least one or two of those players might not be back.


I would say a select few are average but many of them are pretty solid players and key parts to this team. I'm not sure who you see leaving. I can't see Thielen leaving his home state. Are you saying Berger might retire? I mean I don't know who else you're really referring to.

Quote:

So does most of the competition. What's going to make the Vikes rise above the rest?


Because there are many teams that aren't in a position like us with a very good defense and good skilled players on offense. It's not like we have holes all over this roster. A lot of teams do. That's why I think we have an advantage here.

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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:

That is pure speculation. Safety and corner are completely different positions. Just because Newman is a good corner doesn't mean he can play safety effectively. Plus, retirement is still a major possibility for him.


But you see older CBs make that switch because it doesnt require the speed or athleticism as CB does. So it could benefit him. It's benefited others. It's speculation yeah but I see no reason why Newman couldn't be average at worst.

Quote:

Jury is still out on Lamur for me. He has the athleticism, I will give him that. Not sure he is a starting-type player.


Lamur was a tackling machine in the preseason and I can't imagine he covers worse than Greenway did.

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Brothers looked great on special teams. Still, Brothers as a back-up/potential starter at linebacker is still a huge unknown. Cole is easily replaceable.


I mean theres a reason guys are backups. Usually because they aren't good enough to start. They just need to come in and play average. Which I think both Cole and Brothers could do.

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I'd subtract Floyd from the group - as he did nothing this season. Plus, Floyd could be packing his bags. If Linval were to go down - then what? A tandem of an aging Toby Johnson and Stephen does not inspire a lot of confidence.


I said before, I don't see Floyd getting cut because of the dead money hit AND he IS a good player when healthy. Many on here wrote off Rudolph because of his injury history and look how that turned out. Pretty glad we didnt cut him loose just because we were mad he was always injured. Tom Johnson is the one aging. Not Toby Johnson. He was on our practice squad this year. Stephen is an ok backup. And as I said in my mock, I had us taking one in the 3rd. We have draft picks and free agency. How about we wait and see before we say we have no depth at DT.

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Never explicitly stated you did. Strange though, being on the other side of putting words in others' mouth - eh? :gone:


Good one :roll: I see you're drinking the koolaid too.

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Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:27 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I don't really think they're losing many key players. You continue to say that but I'm not sure where its coming from.


I don't know what confuses you about it. I've listed them more than once.

They could lose Newman to retirement and Munnerlyn to free agency. That would be two of their top 3 CBs. They will likely lose Greenway to retirement. Peterson could be gone due to cap/contract issues. Patterson could leave via free agency. Kalil could be gone. Floyd could be gone. There are other possibilities too but those are the most significant.

Maybe most or all of those players will be back and perhaps some of them shouldn't be back but most of them have been important to the team in recent years and their return isn't guaranteed. Several of them are starters. Some of them have been among the best in the NFL in their roles.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:53 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I don't really think they're losing many key players. You continue to say that but I'm not sure where its coming from.


I don't know what confuses you about it. I've listed them more than once.

They could lose Newman to retirement and Munnerlyn to free agency. That would be two of their top 3 CBs. They will likely lose Greenway to retirement. Peterson could be gone due to cap/contract issues. Patterson could leave via free agency. Kalil could be gone. Floyd could be gone. There are other possibilities too but those are the most significant.

Maybe most or all of those players will be back and perhaps some of them shouldn't be back but most of them have been important to the team in recent years and their return isn't guaranteed. Several of them are starters. Some of them have been among the best in the NFL in their roles.


I know you've listed them. That wasnt my point. I'm aware of who the free agents on this team are. What did Greenway bring to this team anymore other than leadership. I would have to imagine Lamur could fill in with ease. It wasnt a tough spot to fill. As for the CBs, yes thats why they drafted Alexander but if worse came to worse and we lost both Newman and Munnerlyn which I don't see happening, you're going to see us look to fill that void either in FA or the draft. Kalil's spot needed to be assessed regardless and will be if he does walk. I don't see Floyd going anywhere again because of the dead money hit and the comparison I made to Rudolph.

Either way, for all or even half of these guys to leave via FA seems very unlikely to me. Spielman has been notorious for keeping his own. It sounds like you're looking at it like all or most of those guys are leaving. You hardly ever see teams let that many guys walk. So this is why I said it's unlikely.

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Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:09 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I know you've listed them. That wasnt my point. I'm aware of who the free agents on this team are. What did Greenway bring to this team anymore other than leadership. I would have to imagine Lamur could fill in with ease.


Maybe he can. :confused:

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As for the CBs, yes thats why they drafted Alexander but if worse came to worse and we lost both Newman and Munnerlyn which I don't see happening, you're going to see us look to fill that void either in FA or the draft.


Of course but that doesn't mean they will fill those spots so successfully that there won't be a drop off and in a defense that relies heavily on man to man coverage, a drop in the quality of coverage could make a real difference.

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Either way, for all or even half of these guys to leave via FA seems very unlikely to me. Spielman has been notorious for keeping his own. It sounds like you're looking at it like all or most of those guys are leaving.


I'm not. If that's what I meant, I'd just say it. I'm simply talking about potential changes and unknowns that could impact the overall quality of the team.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:34 pm
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Mothman wrote:


Maybe he can. :confused:


I'm not sure why that is confusing. I mean what does Greenway bring to the table at this point other than leadership? Lamur is a tackling machine (+1), is much more athletic and agile than Greenway (+2) and I cant imagine he's any worse in coverage than Greenway is (+3). I still believe the only reason Greenway got the nod at WLB this year is because it was probably his last year playing.

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Of course but that doesn't mean they will fill those spots so successfully that there won't be a drop off and in a defense that relies heavily on man to man coverage, a drop in the quality of coverage could make a real difference.


I would have to imagine that if they think Newman is retiring, they push after Munnerlyn harder. I just cant see us going from 5 deep at CB to 3 deep without pressing Munnerlyn hard.

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I'm not. If that's what I meant, I'd just say it. I'm simply talking about potential changes and unknowns that could impact the overall quality of the team.


Yeah I mean they are unknowns but I can only see a few at the max happening. Not sure how much of an impact it would really make.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:05 am
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I'm not sure why that is confusing.


It's not. I just meant it to serve as a shrug and because it's the emoji for "confusion", that became confusing! :lol: Sorry about that.

Quote:
I would have to imagine that if they think Newman is retiring, they push after Munnerlyn harder. I just cant see us going from 5 deep at CB to 3 deep without pressing Munnerlyn hard.


Quote:
Yeah I mean they are unknowns but I can only see a few at the max happening. Not sure how much of an impact it would really make.


If the coverage becomes more vulnerable anywhere, that's a weakness that can be exploited.


Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:39 am
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Post Re: What to make of the Vikings' quiet 2016 rookie class?
Mothman wrote:

It's not. I just meant it to serve as a shrug and because it's the emoji for "confusion", that became confusing! :lol: Sorry about that.


:lol: Too much confusion going on here

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:25 am
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