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 Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a year 
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I think the fuse is burning on this message board, there is no indication of anything negative out of the Vikings.

ESPN just picked this club as a SB contender in 2017. I'm a well known talking head disparager so I'm not putting any stock in such a prediction. However, it does show that even outside of Purple Kool-Aid land, there is an opinion that this roster is capable of being highly competitive. Main point of bringing this up is that it seems extremely unlikely that any "fuse" is burning for Zimmer and Spielman.

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Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:12 am
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
mansquatch wrote:
I think the fuse is burning on this message board, there is no indication of anything negative out of the Vikings.


I think a 3-8 finish and significant turnover on the coaching staff are indications from the Vikings.

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ESPN just picked this club as a SB contender in 2017. I'm a well known talking head disparager so I'm not putting any stock in such a prediction. However, it does show that even outside of Purple Kool-Aid land, there is an opinion that this roster is capable of being highly competitive. Main point of bringing this up is that it seems extremely unlikely that any "fuse" is burning for Zimmer and Spielman.


I think it's been lit but how fast it will burn is debatable. A season like the Vikes just had doesn't go unnoticed or leave a GM and coach unscathed but it doesn't mean either is in imminent danger of being fired if next season is disappointing. I think the point here is that they're only going to get so many bites at the apple. If the Vikes make the playoffs again next year, or even win in the playoffs, that fuse might go out or just keep burning oh-so-slowly. If they go 6-10 with another bad OL and another draft class that barely contributes, Zimmer and Spielman could find themselves sitting on pretty hot seats.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:23 am
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I think people tend to let the seasons sorta merge and forget that he has been the head coach for the 2014, 2015, and 2016 season. He is entering his fourth year. If he has a losing record or even just misses the playoffs this year I think its a pretty reasonable move to start looking for a replacement. 4 years and one playoff loss and a piddling offense is no reason to keep a coach.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
My thought is that when a head coaches overhauls his offense, it had better work. I don't think he'll get a second chance.

I really believe they stuck with Shurmur because it will take less capital to get that offense functioning as its meant to, even if it has a lower ceiling than they might get with a better OC or a more aggressive system. They believe the window is open, just like whatever talking head on ESPN is picking the Vikes as a contender, so they've shifted to looking for improvement from the offense instead of excellence (prioritizing the short term goal over the long term goal). I believe they'll get improvement, but unless the defense becomes elite, it will just be another heartbreaker season for the Vikings and their fans. The key to this approach working is competent OL play and 2-3 more impact players on Defense.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:01 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
Mothman wrote:
If they go 6-10 with another bad OL and another draft class that barely contributes, Zimmer and Spielman could find themselves sitting on pretty hot seats.

As they should be.

As much as I love Mike Zimmer, I also know that he knows what's wrong with this team. Failure to fix it, or at least make significant strides toward fixing it, is an indication that Spielman and Zimmer AREN'T CAPABLE of fixing it.

I don't believe that's the case, but the proof will be in the pudding. The roster talent, beyond the O-line, is there. It's put-up-or-shut-up time.

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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
IrishViking wrote:
I think people tend to let the seasons sorta merge and forget that he has been the head coach for the 2014, 2015, and 2016 season. He is entering his fourth year. If he has a losing record or even just misses the playoffs this year I think its a pretty reasonable move to start looking for a replacement. 4 years and one playoff loss and a piddling offense is no reason to keep a coach.


2014 (the Peterson suspension year. Remember how bad it got? Starting QB gone in game 3)
2015 No major losses. finish 11-5
2016 (loss of starting QB, starting RB, OL injuries,) Miss playoffs by 1-2 games

I see no reason to starting thinking of a coaching change. He's only had one season where he didn't have to face adversity and significant talent loss on the field. IMO, he's proven that if he has all his cards, his team will be contending. I'd take those chances any day. I mean what are you guys looking for, a magician?

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Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
808vikingsfan wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
I think people tend to let the seasons sorta merge and forget that he has been the head coach for the 2014, 2015, and 2016 season. He is entering his fourth year. If he has a losing record or even just misses the playoffs this year I think its a pretty reasonable move to start looking for a replacement. 4 years and one playoff loss and a piddling offense is no reason to keep a coach.


2014 (the Peterson suspension year. Remember how bad it got? Starting QB gone in game 3)
2015 No major losses. finish 11-5
2016 (loss of starting QB, starting RB, OL injuries,) Miss playoffs by 1-2 games

I see no reason to starting thinking of a coaching change. He's only had one season where he didn't have to face adversity and significant talent loss on the field. IMO, he's proven that if he has all his cards, his team will be contending. I'd take those chances any day. I mean what are you guys looking for, a magician?


You could apply the same logic to the previous two coaches. :confused: When they had all their cards (or at least enough) they made the playoffs too. Childress even got close to a Super Bowl appearance.

Coaches and teams inevitably face adversity and the Vikings handled it pretty poorly last season. I'm not looking to see Zimmer replaced right now and I'm not looking for a magician but I do want to see the team improve on areas of obvious weakness and I want to see a team-building strategy that leads to bigger and better things.

I think what some us are saying in this thread is that sufficiently unsatisfying results next year could lead to a coaching change or at least put Zimmer and Spielman on the hot seat.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:51 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
Mothman wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
2014 (the Peterson suspension year. Remember how bad it got? Starting QB gone in game 3)
2015 No major losses. finish 11-5
2016 (loss of starting QB, starting RB, OL injuries,) Miss playoffs by 1-2 games

I see no reason to starting thinking of a coaching change. He's only had one season where he didn't have to face adversity and significant talent loss on the field. IMO, he's proven that if he has all his cards, his team will be contending. I'd take those chances any day. I mean what are you guys looking for, a magician?


You could apply the same logic to the previous two coaches. :confused: When they had all their cards (or at least enough) they made the playoffs too. Childress even got close to a Super Bowl appearance.
I disagree. The only winning season Fraiser had was because of Peterson in 2012. Childress, I give him credit for taking the Vikings to the playoffs with Tarvaris but the NFC championship year was mostly the doing of Favre. Also note that neither of these coaches lost Peterson for any significant amount of time and that he also was in his prime.



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Coaches and teams inevitably face adversity and the Vikings handled it pretty poorly last season. I'm not looking to see Zimmer replaced right now and I'm not looking for a magician but I do want to see the team improve on areas of obvious weakness and I want to see a team-building strategy that leads to bigger and better things.
Is it possible the reason last season seemed like a waste was because of false hopes when they started 5-0? Like I said before, you take away your two or three best offense players on any team and decimate the OL with injuries and it'll turn any offense into a shell of its former self. It's a wonder they were actually in the playoff hunt this year.



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I think what some us are saying in this thread is that sufficiently unsatisfying results next year could lead to a coaching change or at least put Zimmer and Spielman on the hot seat.
Don't you think the reason for the results should be taken into account? I think we can agree that the reason the offense struggled this year was due to the significant amount of injuries at key positions. It wasn't because they were lacking talent at those positions.





If the Vikings can solidify the OL in two years, wouldn't you want to see what this team could do?

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Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
808vikingsfan wrote:
I disagree. The only winning season Fraiser had was because of Peterson in 2012.


As opposed to the winning seasons Zimmer's had when he wasn't able to lean on Peterson? His only winning season came with a league-leading rushing performance by Peterson too. AD didn't run to the same historic level he did in 2012 but they were still heavily reliant on him in 2015.

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Childress, I give him credit for taking the Vikings to the playoffs with Tarvaris but the NFC championship year was mostly the doing of Favre. Also note that neither of these coaches lost Peterson for any significant amount of time and that he also was in his prime.


They lost other key players. Their rosters had issues and they faced adversity too. Zimmer's not unique in that respect.

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Don't you think the reason for the results should be taken into account?


Sure, but so should the decisions that led to them.

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I think we can agree that the reason the offense struggled this year was due to the significant amount of injuries at key positions. It wasn't because they were lacking talent at those positions.


Unfortunately, I don't agree with that. I think the injuries (particularly Peterson's) had an impact on the season but I don't think they were THE reason the offense struggled. I think that would have happened without the injuries and I feel the talent on the offense is vastly overrated around here.

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If the Vikings can solidify the OL in two years, wouldn't you want to see what this team could do?


I want to see what they can do every year. :) As I said, I'm not calling for Zimmer to be replaced (although they could replace Spielman tomorrow and I'd be fine with it). I just think, as Kapp and IrishViking indicated above, a 3rd losing season in 4 years might be grounds for dismissal or it could at least put Zimmer on the hot seat. Of course, it would depend on the nature of the season and that season is entirely hypothetical anyway. A second winning season, especially if they were really impressive, could change outlooks too.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:08 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
How could he have a 3rd losing season in 4 years when he only has 1 losing season so far?


Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:21 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
S197 wrote:
How could he have a 3rd losing season in 4 years when he only has 1 losing season so far?


Oops! Sorry, a third non-winning season...

.500 seasons are linguistically inconvenient!

Bottom line: I can't speak for anyone else but what I'm trying to express here is how I think the Wilfs might look at the situation and their history doesn't suggest we'll see a lot of patience with the coach if the team doesn't make the playoffs next year. They seem to have near-infinite patience with Spielman so who knows how that would impact him but I think, at the very least, missing the playoffs again could put Zimmer on the hot seat. that doesn't seem like a stretch so I don't think FiestaVike was wrong in suggesting the "fuse" has been lit.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:40 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
Mothman wrote:
Bottom line: I can't speak for anyone else but what I'm trying to express here is how I think the Wilfs might look at the situation and their history doesn't suggest we'll see a lot of patience with the coach if the team doesn't make the playoffs next year. They seem to have near-infinite patience with Spielman so who knows how that would impact him but I think, at the very least, missing the playoffs again could put Zimmer on the hot seat. that doesn't seem like a stretch so I don't think FiestaVike was wrong in suggesting the "fuse" has been lit.


Count me as one who thinks under the same circumstances the fuse would be lit for any other coach the Vikings have had since the Wilfs bought the team.

While I don't know if missing the playoffs will put Zimmer on the hot seat, especially if the Vikings have a 9-7 season, I think a losing season definitely will be bad for him. I'm hoping Zimmer can put things together for his sake but mostly for the team's sake.

I wouldn't bet on Spielman being fired for any reason. Not yet, anyway. I get the feeling Ziggy and company think he's doing a decent job. I have nothing really to base that on, aside from the "near-infinite patience" you mentioned.


Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I think I am in the minority, but if this team starts 0-5, Rick is gone. 0-5 is a bad thing, losing Rick may be a good thing. He certainly has had plenty of chances tho see what he could add, which had been very little, compared to the power he has had. Compared to Tice who was told to get the hell off the field after a season.

I will be extremely upset if we dont make the playoffs in 2017, almost as upset as I am at Barr for a lackluster season. Its almost like Rick ready the papers, then picks the best of the lot instead of adding in all the other equations. This is really going to be hard to find a few gems.


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
I think I am in the minority, but if this team starts 0-5, Rick is gone. 0-5 is a bad thing, losing Rick may be a good thing. He certainly has had plenty of chances tho see what he could add, which had been very little, compared to the power he has had. Compared to Tice who was told to get the hell off the field after a season.

I will be extremely upset if we dont make the playoffs in 2017, almost as upset as I am at Barr for a lackluster season. Its almost like Rick ready the papers, then picks the best of the lot instead of adding in all the other equations. This is really going to be hard to find a few gems.


To say he's added very little is false. Has it been lopsided, yes. But he's brought in some of the best young defensive players in this league. Rhodes, Smith, Waynes, Barr, Kendricks, Hunter and signed Joseph. If it wasnt for Spielman, those guys probably wouldnt be here. On the offensive side, there are very little. But if guys like Treadwell pan out, it makes him look that much better. Either way, saying he brought in very little makes zero sense. The Browns and 49ers GMs brought in very little. And we aren't comparable to those teams.

And are you really going to knock on Barr? Two legit seasons and one slump and now "Rick just ready's the papers and picks the best of the lot". Come on man. Lets pump the brakes there.

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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I am honestly a little surprise by the opposition to the idea.

You are telling me that if we miss the playoffs again in anything other than lets say a 10-6 bizarre season where it comes down to the wire, meaning we go 8-8 again, people would be happy going into a 5th season with a couch who has lead us to a single playoff game and lost at home?

I am not saying THIS offseason, I am saying if we have another 8-8 year or a 7-9, 6-10 year. We will be looking at 4 years and a single playoff game that we lost. I simply don't see how you could categorize Zimmers Tenure as successful at that point. :confused:

I only bring it up because we have a BIG hill to climb. I know we have the rose colored off season glasses on but we need at least 3 completely new Olinemen to play WELL next year to have a shot on top of our defense needing to play as well as it was playing initially in the year for the whole season. I hope Zimmer can do it but if I had to put money on whether or not our offense and oline will be significantly better and our defense will continue to play at a high level next year... I'd say no.


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
IrishViking wrote:
I am honestly a little surprise by the opposition to the idea.

You are telling me that if we miss the playoffs again in anything other than lets say a 10-6 bizarre season where it comes down to the wire, meaning we go 8-8 again, people would be happy going into a 5th season with a couch who has lead us to a single playoff game and lost at home?

I am not saying THIS offseason, I am saying if we have another 8-8 year or a 7-9, 6-10 year. We will be looking at 4 years and a single playoff game that we lost. I simply don't see how you could categorize Zimmers Tenure as successful at that point. :confused:

I only bring it up because we have a BIG hill to climb. I know we have the rose colored off season glasses on but we need at least 3 completely new Olinemen to play WELL next year to have a shot on top of our defense needing to play as well as it was playing initially in the year for the whole season. I hope Zimmer can do it but if I had to put money on whether or not our offense and oline will be significantly better and our defense will continue to play at a high level next year... I'd say no.


It's not like this defense is old. So why couldnt it continue to play at a high level?? By letting go AP, we have the cap to get 1-2 big FA OL plus drafting. Not sure why some think this cant happen. It can. It's all about making the right moves and drafting right. I have faith that Zim and Spielman have that handled.

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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I'm with PHP....if they play their cards right it is possible.


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
IrishViking wrote:
I am honestly a little surprise by the opposition to the idea.

You are telling me that if we miss the playoffs again in anything other than lets say a 10-6 bizarre season where it comes down to the wire, meaning we go 8-8 again, people would be happy going into a 5th season with a couch who has lead us to a single playoff game and lost at home?

I am not saying THIS offseason, I am saying if we have another 8-8 year or a 7-9, 6-10 year. We will be looking at 4 years and a single playoff game that we lost. I simply don't see how you could categorize Zimmers Tenure as successful at that point. :confused:

I only bring it up because we have a BIG hill to climb. I know we have the rose colored off season glasses on but we need at least 3 completely new Olinemen to play WELL next year to have a shot on top of our defense needing to play as well as it was playing initially in the year for the whole season. I hope Zimmer can do it but if I had to put money on whether or not our offense and oline will be significantly better and our defense will continue to play at a high level next year... I'd say no.


For me it depends on the circumstances. A healthy Vikings team should have a winning season but there are extraordinary circumstances where I would allow some leeway. I don't count a blow out loss and Walsh shanking a FG as equal, for instance, so it's not only record for me but also other factors at play.


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
If the Vikings regress further, then it is time to look for a new coach. Zimmer hasn't been here long enough to earn more than a couple of underachieving seasons, imo


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I think it would be a mistake, but I expect it to happen if they don't make the playoffs. Making the playoffs is pretty much what this fanbase expects and demands. Everyone *wants* to win a Super Bowl, but just being competitive is enough to keep us enthused. The organization has basically taken that approach since they were owned by multiple owners and through the McCombs years. I really hoped the Wilfs would bring a new attitude, but so far I don't see it. Its an organization plagued by low standards and pretty much has been for decades. The current temperature of the fans is pretty much in line with the organizational standards - be creative enough to get a little more production out of your components, seek improvement instead of excellence, putter along and see if maybe you can squeeze an unlikely superbowl victory out of a tenuous approach. *At least* make the playoffs and aim to improve your regular season record by 1 or 2 games each year. If you fall to 8-8, replace them with someone who might be able to make a little better use of the pieces on the board and get tthe team back to 10-6, where at least they're in the playoffs and 'anything can happen'.

:wallbang:


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
fiestavike wrote:
I think it would be a mistake, but I expect it to happen if they don't make the playoffs. Making the playoffs is pretty much what this fanbase expects and demands. Everyone *wants* to win a Super Bowl, but just being competitive is enough to keep us enthused. The organization has basically taken that approach since they were owned by multiple owners and through the McCombs years. I really hoped the Wilfs would bring a new attitude, but so far I don't see it. Its an organization plagued by low standards and pretty much has been for decades. The current temperature of the fans is pretty much in line with the organizational standards - be creative enough to get a little more production out of your components, seek improvement instead of excellence, putter along and see if maybe you can squeeze an unlikely superbowl victory out of a tenuous approach. *At least* make the playoffs and aim to improve your regular season record by 1 or 2 games each year. If you fall to 8-8, replace them with someone who might be able to make a little better use of the pieces on the board and get tthe team back to 10-6, where at least they're in the playoffs and 'anything can happen'.

:wallbang:


I'm a little fuzzy on the exact source of your frustration. Is it mainly with the organization's standards? Do you feel they are holding Zimmer back from a pursuit of excellence rather than just improvement (I ask that because of your first sentence)?

I'm certainly not a fan of the idea that they just need to reach the postseason and "'anything can happen" approach.


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
Mothman wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
I think it would be a mistake, but I expect it to happen if they don't make the playoffs. Making the playoffs is pretty much what this fanbase expects and demands. Everyone *wants* to win a Super Bowl, but just being competitive is enough to keep us enthused. The organization has basically taken that approach since they were owned by multiple owners and through the McCombs years. I really hoped the Wilfs would bring a new attitude, but so far I don't see it. Its an organization plagued by low standards and pretty much has been for decades. The current temperature of the fans is pretty much in line with the organizational standards - be creative enough to get a little more production out of your components, seek improvement instead of excellence, putter along and see if maybe you can squeeze an unlikely superbowl victory out of a tenuous approach. *At least* make the playoffs and aim to improve your regular season record by 1 or 2 games each year. If you fall to 8-8, replace them with someone who might be able to make a little better use of the pieces on the board and get tthe team back to 10-6, where at least they're in the playoffs and 'anything can happen'.

:wallbang:


I'm a little fuzzy on the exact source of your frustration. Is it mainly with the organization's standards? Do you feel they are holding Zimmer back from a pursuit of excellence rather than just improvement (I ask that because of your first sentence)?

I'm certainly not a fan of the idea that they just need to reach the postseason and "'anything can happen" approach.


I am mainly frustrated with the organization. There's a lot of conjecture in this, and it may be wrong, and you can disregard it, but my instinct is that Zimmer will be fired if they have another season like we just had. I think at some point this season Zimmer began coaching for his job rather than for excellence, and cost the team Norv Turner. I think all of this happens because the organizational standard is short sighted and geared toward minimal achievement rather than lasting excellence. These things have a way of being overtly expressed OR filter down through an organization. I think the fans want to make the playoffs, the Wilfs want to make the playoffs, and a great coach wants to build a great team. Period. When those priorities get out of whack, bad things happen. Compromises are made that shouldn't be made, corners are cut...the Vikings this year became DESPERATE in my opinion and made a lot of poor decisions.

I think in the right circumstance Zimmer will be a great coach. It probably won't be in Minnesota.


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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
fiestavike wrote:
I am mainly frustrated with the organization. There's a lot of conjecture in this, and it may be wrong, and you can disregard it, but my instinct is that Zimmer will be fired if they have another season like we just had. I think at some point this season Zimmer began coaching for his job rather than for excellence, and cost the team Norv Turner. I think all of this happens because the organizational standard is short sighted and geared toward minimal achievement rather than lasting excellence. These things have a way of being overtly expressed OR filter down through an organization. I think the fans want to make the playoffs, the Wilfs want to make the playoffs, and a great coach wants to build a great team. Period. When those priorities get out of whack, bad things happen. Compromises are made that shouldn't be made, corners are cut...the Vikings this year became DESPERATE in my opinion and made a lot of poor decisions.


Thanks for the clarification. I do think the organization can sometimes get too focused on short-term goals and lose sight of what they need to do to achieve long-term success (ie: excellence).

I think coaches want to build great teams but they probably want to make the playoffs as much as anybody, especially following a season that ended like the 2016 season did for the Vikings. It seems safe to assume Zimmer wanted to build on his previous success. Did he have any reason to feel he was coaching for his job this season? He was coming off a division title and had just been rewarded with a contract extension. I'm inclined to think any desperation he felt came from within. After a 5-0 start, I imagine he had high expectations for his team and he seems to have them for himself. He and his team may have simply faced a test they both failed in 2016.

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I think in the right circumstance Zimmer will be a great coach. It probably won't be in Minnesota.


Perhaps not. It might depend on what both he and Rick Spielman learn from these past few seasons. I mention the latter because their fates with the Vikings are inextricably tied together.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:05 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
They are linked by they have different weaknesses.

Zimmer seems to have a strong handle on all aspects of Defense. On ST things are mostly going well outside of the kicking issues.

Offense is a problem, but the why and how of it is murky. Is it because Zim delegated too much to Norv. (Noting that there will always be delegation to a coordinator.) Or is it Zimmer dictating a conservative approach that is too far to the side of playing it safe, hampering the team? I don't know the exact answer, just that it isn't working.

Additionally, Zimmer has shown some weakness on the Morale Front. We've seen several performances in each of his seasons that are inexplicable. The loss on MNF to SF in 2015 and loss at home to IND last season are the biggest examples of this. Also, they went 3-8 down the stretch this year. There were explanations for some of that slide, but some of it was the Defense, which was healthy, just not playing complete games. The team's resolve seemed to fold at times and they went in the tank. It is Zimmer's job as the HC to make sure that doens't happen.

Spielman has an obvious issue with finding OL talent. (I think coaching plays a role here as well.) The QB selection has been questionable. However, beyond that they've done rather well drafting most other positions. It hasn't been perfect. I know others think this is worse than I'm labeling it, but this is where I stand on the deal.

I think there are two major challenges facing the team in 2017:
1.) Figuring out the "new normal" for NFL OL both in terms of drafting them as well as coaching them so as to get results that both better and quicker (to get reults) given the state of the college game. Also upgrading our current starting line up.
2.) Resolving the morale issue that seems to cost us 2-4 silly losses each season under Zimmer.

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Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:01 am
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
mansquatch wrote:
They are linked by they have different weaknesses.

Zimmer seems to have a strong handle on all aspects of Defense. On ST things are mostly going well outside of the kicking issues.

Offense is a problem, but the why and how of it is murky. Is it because Zim delegated too much to Norv. (Noting that there will always be delegation to a coordinator.) Or is it Zimmer dictating a conservative approach that is too far to the side of playing it safe, hampering the team? I don't know the exact answer, just that it isn't working.

Additionally, Zimmer has shown some weakness on the Morale Front. We've seen several performances in each of his seasons that are inexplicable. The loss on MNF to SF in 2015 and loss at home to IND last season are the biggest examples of this. Also, they went 3-8 down the stretch this year. There were explanations for some of that slide, but some of it was the Defense, which was healthy, just not playing complete games. The team's resolve seemed to fold at times and they went in the tank. It is Zimmer's job as the HC to make sure that doens't happen.

Spielman has an obvious issue with finding OL talent. (I think coaching plays a role here as well.) The QB selection has been questionable. However, beyond that they've done rather well drafting most other positions. It hasn't been perfect. I know others think this is worse than I'm labeling it, but this is where I stand on the deal.

I think there are two major challenges facing the team in 2017:
1.) Figuring out the "new normal" for NFL OL both in terms of drafting them as well as coaching them so as to get results that both better and quicker (to get reults) given the state of the college game. Also upgrading our current starting line up.
2.) Resolving the morale issue that seems to cost us 2-4 silly losses each season under Zimmer.


I think what you're referring to as a morale issue is actually more of a game-planning/exploitable weaknesses issue. When I look at the blowout losses the Vikes have suffered in each of the last 3 years, what stands out to me most are those issues. That said, regardless of what we see as the root problem, they need to avoid suffering those blowout losses.

Figuring out the OL issues is a huge hurdle. If they can clear it, that should help them take care of some other things too.

Another major challenge they need to solve is scoring, especially in the red zone, where their TD-scoring efficiency has steadily declined under Zimmer. They've been among the worst teams in the league in that area over the last 2 seasons. That gets back to the overarching problem with their offense that you mentioned above.


Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:17 am
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
I CANNOT blame Sparano.....You cant build a OL out of a bunch of over-priced Jello.


Last edited by chicagopurple on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:03 am
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
chicagopurple wrote:
I can blame Sparano.....You cant build a OL out of a bunch of over-priced Jello.



I assume you meant cant? Or did Sparano have some odd coaching habits?


Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
autobon7 wrote:
I'm with PHP....if they play their cards right it is possible.




x 2


Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
Alaskan wrote:
autobon7 wrote:
I'm with PHP....if they play their cards right it is possible.




x 2


x3

No matter how ugly people want to paint this season, the Vikings were only 2 games out of first place in the North. Make the oline respectable, add a DT and RB. They'll have as good a chance as any other team. It's going to be a fun 2017.

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Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:05 pm
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Post Re: Offensive staff has almost completely turned over in a y
808vikingsfan wrote:
Alaskan wrote:
autobon7 wrote:
I'm with PHP....if they play their cards right it is possible.




x 2


x3

No matter how ugly people want to paint this season, the Vikings were only 2 games out of first place in the North. Make the oline respectable, add a DT and RB. They'll have as good a chance as any other team. It's going to be a fun 2017.


Exactly. Granted, we'll see how everything goes in a few months but some are acting like the sky is falling. We went 8-8 and were 2 games out. No less games that were decided in the final seconds. Plus a game like the Dallas one where we lose by 2. It's not like we're the 1-15 Browns. Atlanta was 8-8 last year and should have won the SB. That isn't out of the question with this team. Especially with how good our defense is.

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