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 New RB Coach? 
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Hartman: Vikings must find a way to fix awful running game

I posted a link to the article above in the Adrian peterson thread as well, because the article contains a quote about Peterson from Mike Zimmer.

Anyway, Hartman writes:

Quote:
With the hiring of Barone and Polamalu, Zimmer is clearly trying to improve the run game, which struggled mightily in 2016, with or without star Adrian Peterson available.

“We’ve been looking at all of the running game from this past season and we’re going to have to make some changes in the offensive line, obviously,” Zimmer said. “We’re going to have to try to get some more space to run the football. We had way too many runs that ended up being hit at the line of scrimmage or within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage. We’re going to look at that first.”


Quote:
When asked if he expects the Vikings to target offensive players in the draft, Zimmer weighed two options.

“I do believe this will be an offensive draft,” he said. “Defensively, we’re in pretty good position for most situations, but as it comes down closer to the draft — and I go to the Senior Bowl [it was held Saturday in Mobile, Ala.], so we’ll find out a little bit more this week on where the strengths of the draft are and where we can go from there.

But saying that, I’m still a believer and I know Rick [Spielman] is, too, at taking the best available player. So if some defensive guys jump up in there, you know when we’re picking, I think we’ll pull the trigger on them. We do have free agency to try to fill some of our holes, and we’re hoping we get a couple players there, as well.”


Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:58 am
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
But you said 1/3 of a team "simply isnt enough" when that is exactly what is happening right now (Atlanta). No less you followed that up by saying you dont see us contending for a while. So no, I'm not blowing it out of proportion. Atlanta is contending and they are good on one side of the ball.

Totally, completely, thoroughly, 100,000% disagree.

Atlanta got by during the first 10 games of regular season on their offense. They won a lot of shootouts. But over their past 8 games -- last 6 regular season games and 2 playoff games -- their defense has risen close to the level everybody thought they would when Dan Quinn was hired. Let's remember, like Zimmer, Dan Quinn was ALSO a defensive guru in Seattle. So it goes to show that a defensive wiz can build a great offense.

The Falcons were always going to contend for the division with that offense, and given the relative weakness of the NFC South (thanks to the dumpster fire that Carolina became). But they're in the Super Bowl because the defense has risen to the occasion.

My other disagreement is with special teams. Atlanta is excellent. Matt Bryant is a fantastic kicker, Matt Bosher averages over 46 yards per punt, and they've got Devin Hester back there returning kicks.

Two out of 3 phases were always good for Atlanta. Now all three are, and don't be surprised if they're hoisting the trophy as a result.


First of all, Dan Quinn didnt "build this offense". Dan Quinn was handed this offense. Mike Zimmer was handed very little. No QB, no WR, no OL.

And look at the teams they played those last 6 games. SF, LA, Carolina, even Arizona. All offenses that were in the tank all year. Bottom line is, the proof is in the pudding. They have the 25th ranked defense this year. Are we really going to try and defend that? If we had the 25th ranked defense in the league this year, I can't imagine anyone is sitting on here defending that.

As for the special teams, part of that is wrong . Devin Hester is NOT there. He plays for Seattle. He was in Atlanta last year and played 5 games. Since, he's been in Baltimore and Seattle. Not knocking you but lets research before we disagree with something. Yeah they have a good kicker and we did for half a season. Our punter blows. But if you read what I said above, I said outside of Locke, our ST is pretty good. I say we have the best overall return game in the league with CP and Sherels. I don't care who Devin Hester plays for. I take CP over him any day at this point of their career. So I guess if you, 100,000% disagree, I 1,000,000% disagree. Especially since part of this post was false.

Oops on Hester. My bad. I made a mistake. Sue me. But it doesn't change the prime argument, that Atlanta's overall team is way better than you're giving it credit for.

As for the defense, you can go with the "weak opponent" argument if you want. But that conveniently overlooks the fact that Atlanta's defense just pummeled Seattle and Green Bay in the playoffs. And I do mean PUMMELED. Atlanta's defense has been excellent their past 8 games, and the statistics prove it. Of course, you have to research deeper than the final overall stats to know that, but what do I know? I don't do research.

I mean, good god man. Atlanta is in the Super Bowl. The Vikings, for the 40th consecutive year, are not. Comparing the Vikings to Atlanta in any way, except to say, "Maybe we ought to copy what they're doing well," is ridiculous. THAT is the point.

And yeah, if we had the 25th-ranked defense and were playing in the damn Super Bowl, my guess is that I definitely would be "defending that."

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Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:40 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
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Mike Zimmer was handed very little. No QB, no WR, no OL.


Wow, I'd hate to be the General Manager of that team! :gone:


Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:01 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Oops on Hester. My bad. I made a mistake. Sue me. But it doesn't change the prime argument, that Atlanta's overall team is way better than you're giving it credit for.

As for the defense, you can go with the "weak opponent" argument if you want. But that conveniently overlooks the fact that Atlanta's defense just pummeled Seattle and Green Bay in the playoffs. And I do mean PUMMELED. Atlanta's defense has been excellent their past 8 games, and the statistics prove it. Of course, you have to research deeper than the final overall stats to know that, but what do I know? I don't do research.

I mean, good god man. Atlanta is in the Super Bowl. The Vikings, for the 40th consecutive year, are not. Comparing the Vikings to Atlanta in any way, except to say, "Maybe we ought to copy what they're doing well," is ridiculous. THAT is the point.

And yeah, if we had the 25th-ranked defense and were playing in the damn Super Bowl, my guess is that I definitely would be "defending that."


First of all, Seattle doesn't have some prolific offense. They had a QB that had like 5 or 6 games this year without a TD pass. And their running game was towards the back end of the league. So big deal. They whooped Seattle. The one team in the league that might have a worse OL than we do. So I'm not sure why that should impress anyone. As for GB, yeah that was an impressive win.

Either way, they are the NUMBER ONE offense in the NFL. They are averaging 34 points a game which is ridiculous. At that rate, your defense can give up well into the 20's and early 30's and they are still winning the game. Let's be honest, with this offense, their defense doesnt have to do a whole lot and clearly, being ranked 25th in the league shows they haven't done much. Have they played better as of late, sure. But bottom line is, this is 1/3 of a team. Good special teams so 2/3 but this isn't a COMPLETE team.

I said IF our offense could get into the 20's even overall next year, they could be in a similar spot. When did I ever once compare them to the current Vikings?? We have a legit defense. They have a legit offense. But when you compare their defense to our offense, there D is much better. But by no means is it a legit defense. Our offense is just that bad.

And did you argue the Bears offense when they made the SB in 07?? Did you argue the Ravens offense in 2000?? I mean they were in the SB right?? One of them winning it. So yes, please defend.

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Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:24 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Demi wrote:
Quote:
Mike Zimmer was handed very little. No QB, no WR, no OL.


Wow, I'd hate to be the General Manager of that team! :gone:


:roll: I'll sit this one out

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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Demi wrote:
Quote:
Mike Zimmer was handed very little. No QB, no WR, no OL.


Wow, I'd hate to be the General Manager of that team! :gone:


:lol:


Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:14 am
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
And did you argue the Bears offense when they made the SB in 07?? Did you argue the Ravens offense in 2000?? I mean they were in the SB right?? One of them winning it. So yes, please defend.


That Ravens offense had the league's #1 running game and was ranked 16th overall. That team also had excellent special teams and, of course, a great defense.

Defended.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:22 am
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
So yes, please defend.

Look man, YOU started this argument by saying Atlanta has 1/3 of a team.

You're the one who needs to defend his position, not me. But because I can't help myself, I'll do it anyway.

Here is just one of many articles on the topic.

NFL.com wrote:
Hardly anybody was talking about what the Falcons might do when this postseason ensued.

Some of that had to do with the 2-4 playoff record that Pro Bowl quarterback Matt Ryan had built over his career. More of it had to do with a defense that finished this season ranked 27th in scoring (25.4 points allowed per game) and 25th in total yards (371.2 yards per game). It was impossible to take the Falcons seriously with a defense producing numbers so abysmal. The reality is that Atlanta had been improving on that side for most of the second half of the season, without many people really buying into their overall progress.

"Many people" obviously includes you.

NFL.com wrote:
This defense has a better chance of avoiding the big plays and long drives that caused them problems in the past. The Falcons won five of their last six regular-season games following their bye week on Nov. 20, all while allowing only 18.8 points per game in those victories. They also watched second-year defensive end Vic Beasley emerge into a dominant pass rusher who led the league with 15.5 sacks. While the Falcons' potent offense was making headlines, that defense -- which consists of seven starters with two years or less of professional experience -- was growing up.

Seven starters with two years or less. Think about it. That's like running 7 Trae Wayneses onto the field.

Bottom line: Atlanta is a 12-win team that's playing in the Super Bowl. Laugh them off if you want, but you can't deny the fact that the defense has improved enough to get them there. When you have a historically potent offense, you don't need a top-5 defense. Just as the Ravens didn't need a top-5 offense when they won the SB with a historically stubborn defense. But that also doesn't make either of them "1/3 of a team." The Vikings are 1/3 of a team, which is why they're 8-8 and watching from home for the 40th straight year.

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Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:31 am
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
And did you argue the Bears offense when they made the SB in 07?? Did you argue the Ravens offense in 2000?? I mean they were in the SB right?? One of them winning it. So yes, please defend.


That Ravens offense had the league's #1 running game and was ranked 16th overall. That team also had excellent special teams and, of course, a great defense.

Defended.


K. And had Trent Dilfer at QB. Or Grbac or whatever other pile of garbage. And the Bears?

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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
And did you argue the Bears offense when they made the SB in 07?? Did you argue the Ravens offense in 2000?? I mean they were in the SB right?? One of them winning it. So yes, please defend.


That Ravens offense had the league's #1 running game and was ranked 16th overall. That team also had excellent special teams and, of course, a great defense.

Defended.


I believe a lot of mythology has been built up about the 2000 Ravens.

They weren't just a defensive team. They had all you mentioned above, Jim, plus they didn't have a winning record during the regular season until Billick made the bold move of switching to Trent Dilfer at QB. Dilfer was a smart but not great QB. But as soon as he became the starter, the offense began putting points on the board. And the Ravens started winning and kept on winning.

Running game, improved passing game, great special teams, and a solid defense (not to mention some astute coaching moves by Billick) made the 2000 Ravens one of the most complete teams to ever enter the Super Bowl.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:43 am
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
K. And had Trent Dilfer at QB. Or Grbac or whatever other pile of garbage.


So what? What difference does that make? They had a championship-caliber team.

Quote:
And the Bears?


Their offense was lousy, their defense faltered and they lost the Super Bowl. What's your point?


Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:00 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Look man, YOU started this argument by saying Atlanta has 1/3 of a team.

You're the one who needs to defend his position, not me. But because I can't help myself, I'll do it anyway.


I just said give them special teams and that is 2/3. But at seasons end, they were 27th in points allowed, 25th in yards allowed, 28th in passing yards allowed and 17th in rushing yards allowed. And that is all AFTER these great games they played at the end of the year. They still had those numbers. Did they make progress, sure. They were downright horrendous before. Sorry, say whatever you want, but that is not a good defense. Were they "enough" to get to the SB? Obviously but I'm not going to sit here and say Atlanta is some complete team with the numbers that defense has put up all year. They got better I guess you could say, but they aren't a "good defense" and they are no way comparable to ours. Average at best. I just find it funny that we give up 2 30+ point games to Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck and so many on this board were saying this defense is overrated, nowhere near elite, yada yada yada. Yet now we have guys defending an Atlanta defense that ranked 27th in points allowed this year giving up 25.4. No less that was after they "improved". Hmmmm.....


Quote:
"Many people" obviously includes you.


You're right. I'm not buying into them.

NFL.com wrote:
.

Bottom line: Atlanta is a 12-win team that's playing in the Super Bowl. Laugh them off if you want, but you can't deny the fact that the defense has improved enough to get them there. When you have a historically potent offense, you don't need a top-5 defense. Just as the Ravens didn't need a top-5 offense when they won the SB with a historically stubborn defense. But that also doesn't make either of them "1/3 of a team." The Vikings are 1/3 of a team, which is why they're 8-8 and watching from home for the 40th straight year.


Like I said, I'm not going to call Atlanta a complete team. They have an average at best defense. The #1 offense and good special teams. That's 2/3 of a team. I said that before but now you're resorting back to me saying 1/3. I gave them the nod on special teams even though Devin Hester isnt on the team.

However at this point, I would give our ST the nod as well. With Walsh gone, the only weak link we really have is Locke. Sherels and Patterson are two elite returners. Forbath was solid. Atlanta has the edge on us with the kicking game but nowhere near the return game. So why arent you giving us the nod for special teams?? Without Walsh here, I would say it's pretty damn good.

My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.

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Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:03 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
losperros wrote:
I believe a lot of mythology has been built up about the 2000 Ravens.

They weren't just a defensive team. They had all you mentioned above, Jim, plus they didn't have a winning record during the regular season until Billick made the bold move of switching to Trent Dilfer at QB. Dilfer was a smart but not great QB. But as soon as he became the starter, the offense began putting points on the board. And the Ravens started winning and kept on winning.

Running game, improved passing game, great special teams, and a solid defense (not to mention some astute coaching moves by Billick) made the 2000 Ravens one of the most complete teams to ever enter the Super Bowl.


Well said. I agree, a lot of misleading mythology has built up around that team.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:05 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.


There's a difference between what people consider possible and what they consider probable and you still seem to be missing that point.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:16 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
K. And had Trent Dilfer at QB. Or Grbac or whatever other pile of garbage.


So what? What difference does that make? They had a championship-caliber team.

Quote:
And the Bears?


Their offense was lousy, their defense faltered and they lost the Super Bowl. What's your point?


Lol the same point I've been trying to make this whole time. They rode a legit defense to a SB. I dont care if they won it or not. They got there with a horrible offense. So who's to say it's not possible for us to do it. Even if our offense improves a little.

As for Baltimore, they were in the back end in passing but towards the top in rushing. Bottom line was, they were an average offense at best. And they won a SB. My question is, if the Vikings can turn into an average offense, with the defense and ST we have, why cant we contend?? That is my point. These other teams do it but you sit there and say you dont believe this team can do it for "years to come".

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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.


There's a difference between what people consider possible and what they consider probable and you still seem to be missing that point.


No, I think it's clear as day that you dont believe in Zim and Spielman. No worries. I said it for you. And you dont believe this team can contend with them there. Yeah I get that. Your point has came across Jim. You mention it in just about any thread that discusses either of the two. And as I have said before, I have the complete opposite view. And once again, you wont get the answers you're looking for until this offseason at the earliest. It's a wait and see game. So let's wait.

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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.


There's a difference between what people consider possible and what they consider probable and you still seem to be missing that point.


No, I think it's clear as day that you dont believe in Zim and Spielman. No worries. I said it for you. And you dont believe this team can contend with them there. Yeah I get that.


Your repeated insistence on inaccurately attempting to state my views needs to end. Express your own views here and leave it others to express their views.

I don't profess to know whether the Vikings can ultimately contend under Zimmer and Spielman but I don't believe they will seriously contend for the Super Bowl next year and likely not for at least a couple of years. There are a bunch of reasons for that, many involving personnel. My confidence in coaching and management are factors too but I just don't think the Vikes are likely to make sufficient improvements to get them into the Super Bowl that soon.

You keep arguing about possibility:

"... if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend.

"Some people act like that is impossible"

"They got there with a horrible offense. So who's to say it's not possible for us to do it."

"My question is, if the Vikings can turn into an average offense, with the defense and ST we have, why cant we contend?

Nobody is arguing the opposing view, that it's impossible for the Vikings to become a contender. However, some of us, myself included, are saying it's improbable, at least in the immediate future. What they "can" or "could' do is about possibility. What they "will" do is about probability. It's a distinction important to the discussion. If someone (in this case, me) expresses the opinion that the Vikings won't be a serious Super Bowl contender in 2018, they aren't saying it can't happen. They're saying they don't think it will happen. That difference between "can" and "will" is significant. Every one of your 4 comments quoted directly above is about what they can do, what's possible, not about what they will do. I made it clear to you all the way back on the 19th that I wasn't saying the Vikings can't contend. They can. It's possible. I just don't think they will.

Quote:
And once again, you wont get the answers you're looking for until this offseason at the earliest. It's a wait and see game. So let's wait.


I've never intended to do anything else so I don't know why you keep feeling the need to make this point. I'm obviously aware of how the season/offseason cycle works, when free agency occurs, when the draft is held, etc. I understand that we won't know the nature of next year's roster until next summer and I'm well aware of the timeline for answers about the composition of the team.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:05 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

No, I think it's clear as day that you dont believe in Zim and Spielman. No worries. I said it for you. And you dont believe this team can contend with them there. Yeah I get that.


Your repeated insistence on inaccurately attempting to state my views needs to end. Express your own views here and leave it others to express their views.


I'm not really sure why you're getting so bent out of shape over this. I'm not "inaccurately stating your views". I can go all over this board and quote you saying that you didn't believe they could contend because of who they have in place right now. You've stated your doubt in Zimmer. You've stated your doubt in Spielman. This isnt anything I'm making up so why do you get so bent out of shape over it? You said it. I repeated it to you because that's what you were ultimately getting to.

Quote:
I wasn't saying the Vikings can't contend. They can. It's possible. I just don't think they will.


:roll: Jim I just said.....YOU DONT BELIEVE THEY WILL CONTEND and you got all defensive over it. Me saying that is 100% true so what are you even arguing. You saying that is scattered all over this board. I'm not saying you said "cant". I'm saying you dont believe they will which is the same thing that you said above. My goodness. You're too focused on the whole "can/cant/possible/impossible" thing. Move passed it. I said you dont BELIEVE in Zim and Spielman and dont BELIEVE they will contend in the near future. It's clear as day. I'm not making it up, I'm not lying, you said it. Why are you getting all defensive when I brought it up.

Quote:

I've never intended to do anything else so I don't know why you keep feeling the need to make this point. I'm obviously aware of how the season/offseason cycle works, when free agency occurs, when the draft is held, etc. I understand that we won't know the nature of next year's roster until next summer and I'm well aware of the timeline for answers about the composition of the team.


You're the one that wanted answers going into next year regarding Spielman and Zimmer. How are you suppose to get them right now?? That's why I said lets wait and see

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Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:14 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Like I said, I'm not going to call Atlanta a complete team. They have an average at best defense. The #1 offense and good special teams. That's 2/3 of a team. I said that before but now you're resorting back to me saying 1/3. I gave them the nod on special teams even though Devin Hester isnt on the team.

How can I phrase this so you can understand?

YOU originally called them 1/3 of a team. YOU did. Not me. That's how this idiotic exchange began. I was responding to that claim. I said their offense is elite, their special teams is good (even with the first factual mistake I've made on this board in about 10 years), and their defense is not only improving but playing at a decently high level as of late. They're top-15 in the league since Week 10, which is a FACT, no matter how you spin it. Now you've retraced your steps, calling them 2/3 of a team. FINE. But stop denying what you originally said.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.

And if you will actually READ my posts instead of responding emotionally to "I disagree 100,000%," you'll see that my point was EXACTLY THE SAME. You're simply too hell-bent on being the expert about every single point to even notice that I FREAKING AGREED WITH YOU.

If nothing else, you've managed to make me an Atlanta Falcons fan for a week.

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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I'm not really sure why you're getting so bent out of shape over this. I'm not "inaccurately stating your views".


They're MY views so trust me, I understand when they aren't being expressed accurately. I asked you politely to stop doing it and you've continued doing it anyway.

Quote:
I can go all over this board and quote you saying that you didn't believe they could contend because of who they have in place right now. You've stated your doubt in Zimmer. You've stated your doubt in Spielman. This isnt anything I'm making up so why do you get so bent out of shape over it? You said it. I repeated it to you because that's what you were ultimately getting to.


That's both an assumption and oversimplification (ie: inaccurate again).

Quote:
:roll: Jim I just said.....YOU DONT BELIEVE THEY WILL CONTEND and you got all defensive over it. Me saying that is 100% true so what are you even arguing. You saying that is scattered all over this board. I'm not saying you said "cant". I'm saying you dont believe they will which is the same thing that you said above.My goodness. You're too focused on the whole "can/cant/possible/impossible" thing. Move passed it.


It's the crux of the disagreement. I'm trying to move the discussion past it by getting you to understand and acknowledge that. That's why I quoted and highlighted your comments in my last post. You keep arguing about what's possible and as far as I can tell, nobody has excluded those possibilities. You seem to be pressing the same point in post after post (not just with me) but who disagrees with it?

As for being "bent out of shape": I'm simply asking you to stop trying to put words in the mouths of others. What you just wrote above, in all caps, is not, in fact, what you "just said" earlier today. You swapped "will" for "can", thus changing the meaning of the statement. It accurately reflects my views now but what you wrote earlier ("you don't believe this team can contend with them there") did not. In other words, I was defensive because you weren't respecting my request to stop stating my views for me and because you were inaccurate again. You didn't even repeat your own comment accurately which should illustrate the pitfalls of trying to tell others what they think. When you keep presuming to tell someone else their own views you're bound to get it wrong so please, just don't do it. If they're unclear, ask for clarification but don't keep insistently telling people what they think (whether it's me or anybody else here).


Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:23 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Like I said, I'm not going to call Atlanta a complete team. They have an average at best defense. The #1 offense and good special teams. That's 2/3 of a team. I said that before but now you're resorting back to me saying 1/3. I gave them the nod on special teams even though Devin Hester isnt on the team.

How can I phrase this so you can understand?

YOU originally called them 1/3 of a team. YOU did. Not me. That's how this idiotic exchange began. I was responding to that claim. I said their offense is elite, their special teams is good (even with the first factual mistake I've made on this board in about 10 years), and their defense is not only improving but playing at a decently high level as of late. They're top-15 in the league since Week 10, which is a FACT, no matter how you spin it. Now you've retraced your steps, calling them 2/3 of a team. FINE. But stop denying what you originally said.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.

And if you will actually READ my posts instead of responding emotionally to "I disagree 100,000%," you'll see that my point was EXACTLY THE SAME. You're simply too hell-bent on being the expert about every single point to even notice that I FREAKING AGREED WITH YOU.

If nothing else, you've managed to make me an Atlanta Falcons fan for a week.


:lol: That last line made me laugh.


Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:26 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
How can I phrase this so you can understand?

YOU originally called them 1/3 of a team. YOU did. Not me. That's how this idiotic exchange began. I was responding to that claim. I said their offense is elite, their special teams is good (even with the first factual mistake I've made on this board in about 10 years), and their defense is not only improving but playing at a decently high level as of late. They're top-15 in the league since Week 10, which is a FACT, no matter how you spin it. Now you've retraced your steps, calling them 2/3 of a team. FINE. But stop denying what you originally said.


I'm not retracting my steps. I just wasnt really considering special teams. I never said their special teams was bad or something. It's just that having a legit special teams isn't whats going to win you a SB necessarily. I mean if it comes down to the final kick or something sure. But any kicker outside of Blair Walsh can hit a game winning kick. It doesnt mean you necessarily have a good special teams. I said Atlanta's defense has been playing better as of late but I still don't look at them as a good defense. I'm not "denying what I said" as much as you might think I am. I just wasnt really paying any attention to special teams. If you have a good offense or defense and a good special teams it still doesnt mean you have a complete team.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
And if you will actually READ my posts instead of responding emotionally to "I disagree 100,000%," you'll see that my point was EXACTLY THE SAME. You're simply too hell-bent on being the expert about every single point to even notice that I FREAKING AGREED WITH YOU.

If nothing else, you've managed to make me an Atlanta Falcons fan for a week.


But yeah that's what I'm doing is trying to be an "expert" about every single point :roll:

I'm just saying bottom line is, I don't look at Atlanta's defense as a good defense. Simple as that. We have a good defense. Atlanta's isn't comparable nor has the talent we do on defense. So if we're a good defense, why would I think Atlanta is to given how they've played ALL year?

Man did this thread get derailed :lol: I'll take part of the blame on that one

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Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:48 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:

They're MY views so trust me, I understand when they aren't being expressed accurately. I asked you politely to stop doing it and you've continued doing it anyway.


Then what am I saying that's false when I say you don't believe that this team can contend with the current coaching staff and GM? That's what I said you were saying and now you're saying they are inaccurate. You've said it all over this board. :confused:

Quote:
That's both an assumption and oversimplification (ie: inaccurate again).


So you didnt express that you didnt have the confidence in Spielman and Zimmer?? Werent you the guy that wanted answers saying why should we believe in these guys? What have they done? Etc. You didnt say you don't believe they can contend with the current coaches and front office??

Quote:

It's the crux of the disagreement. I'm trying to move the discussion past it by getting you to understand and acknowledge that. That's why I quoted and highlighted your comments in my last post. You keep arguing about what's possible and as far as I can tell, nobody has excluded those possibilities. You seem to be pressing the same point in post after post (not just with me) but who disagrees with it?


As for being "bent out of shape": I'm simply asking you to stop trying to put words in the mouths of others. What you just wrote above, in all caps, is not, in fact, what you "just said" earlier today. You swapped "will" for "can", thus changing the meaning of the statement. It accurately reflects my views now but what you wrote earlier ("you don't believe this team can contend with them there") did not. In other words, I was defensive because you weren't respecting my request to stop stating my views for me and because you were inaccurate again. You didn't even repeat your own comment accurately which should illustrate the pitfalls of trying to tell others what they think. When you keep presuming to tell someone else their own views you're bound to get it wrong so please, just don't do it. If they're unclear, ask for clarification but don't keep insistently telling people what they think (whether it's me or anybody else here).


You are saying you didnt believe they could contend with these guys. I'm saying I do believe they can. Of course it's possible. We've established that. Anything is possible in this league. But you didnt believe it would happen. Thats where the whole disagreement came in. Outside of that, I'm not going to sit here and critique 1 or two words that you've battled me over. Like I said above, this thread has been derailed by a mile. I take part of the blame but I have no problem not having to type paragraphs arguing a word or two. Moving on....

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Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:59 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:

They're MY views so trust me, I understand when they aren't being expressed accurately. I asked you politely to stop doing it and you've continued doing it anyway.


Then what am I saying that's false when I say you don't believe that this team can contend with the current coaching staff and GM? That's what I said you were saying and now you're saying they are inaccurate. You've said it all over this board. :confused:

Quote:
That's both an assumption and oversimplification (ie: inaccurate again).


So you didnt express that you didnt have the confidence in Spielman and Zimmer?? Werent you the guy that wanted answers saying why should we believe in these guys? What have they done? Etc. You didnt say you don't believe they can contend with the current coaches and front office??

Quote:

It's the crux of the disagreement. I'm trying to move the discussion past it by getting you to understand and acknowledge that. That's why I quoted and highlighted your comments in my last post. You keep arguing about what's possible and as far as I can tell, nobody has excluded those possibilities. You seem to be pressing the same point in post after post (not just with me) but who disagrees with it?


As for being "bent out of shape": I'm simply asking you to stop trying to put words in the mouths of others. What you just wrote above, in all caps, is not, in fact, what you "just said" earlier today. You swapped "will" for "can", thus changing the meaning of the statement. It accurately reflects my views now but what you wrote earlier ("you don't believe this team can contend with them there") did not. In other words, I was defensive because you weren't respecting my request to stop stating my views for me and because you were inaccurate again. You didn't even repeat your own comment accurately which should illustrate the pitfalls of trying to tell others what they think. When you keep presuming to tell someone else their own views you're bound to get it wrong so please, just don't do it. If they're unclear, ask for clarification but don't keep insistently telling people what they think (whether it's me or anybody else here).


You are saying you didnt believe they could contend with these guys. I'm saying I do believe they can. Of course it's possible. We've established that. Anything is possible in this league. But you didnt believe it would happen. Thats where the whole disagreement came in. Outside of that, I'm not going to sit here and critique 1 or two words that you've battled me over. Like I said above, this thread has been derailed by a mile. I take part of the blame but I have no problem not having to type paragraphs arguing a word or two. Moving on....


By all means, move on but as you do, get the message: don't put words in the mouths of others. Express your views and leave it to others to express their views.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:25 pm
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Post Re: New RB Coach?
Mothman wrote:
By all means, move on but as you do, get the message: don't put words in the mouths of others. Express your views and leave it to others to express their views.


And I'll sit here and continue to say I never once did that. So think what you want but I simply repeated what you said. There is nothing wrong with questioning the views of others on a message board. I never put words into anyone's mouth as long as I've been on this board. I've been in my fair share of heated battles but I've never once sat here trying to tell people what they think. That makes no sense for anyone to do to begin with. People post what they think and that is what I have addressed. Never tried to put words in their mouth. Feel free to PM me if necessary but like I said, I did nothing wrong. I brought up what you've said across this forum. You didnt keep it any kind of secret. Big deal.

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:54 pm
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