New RB Coach?

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:30 pm

Mothman wrote: There's a difference between what people consider possible and what they consider probable and you still seem to be missing that point.
No, I think it's clear as day that you dont believe in Zim and Spielman. No worries. I said it for you. And you dont believe this team can contend with them there. Yeah I get that. Your point has came across Jim. You mention it in just about any thread that discusses either of the two. And as I have said before, I have the complete opposite view. And once again, you wont get the answers you're looking for until this offseason at the earliest. It's a wait and see game. So let's wait.
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: No, I think it's clear as day that you dont believe in Zim and Spielman. No worries. I said it for you. And you dont believe this team can contend with them there. Yeah I get that.


Your repeated insistence on inaccurately attempting to state my views needs to end. Express your own views here and leave it others to express their views.

I don't profess to know whether the Vikings can ultimately contend under Zimmer and Spielman but I don't believe they will seriously contend for the Super Bowl next year and likely not for at least a couple of years. There are a bunch of reasons for that, many involving personnel. My confidence in coaching and management are factors too but I just don't think the Vikes are likely to make sufficient improvements to get them into the Super Bowl that soon.

You keep arguing about possibility:

"... if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend.

"Some people act like that is impossible"

"They got there with a horrible offense. So who's to say it's not possible for us to do it."

"My question is, if the Vikings can turn into an average offense, with the defense and ST we have, why cant we contend?

Nobody is arguing the opposing view, that it's impossible for the Vikings to become a contender. However, some of us, myself included, are saying it's improbable, at least in the immediate future. What they "can" or "could' do is about possibility. What they "will" do is about probability. It's a distinction important to the discussion. If someone (in this case, me) expresses the opinion that the Vikings won't be a serious Super Bowl contender in 2018, they aren't saying it can't happen. They're saying they don't think it will happen. That difference between "can" and "will" is significant. Every one of your 4 comments quoted directly above is about what they can do, what's possible, not about what they will do. I made it clear to you all the way back on the 19th that I wasn't saying the Vikings can't contend. They can. It's possible. I just don't think they will.
And once again, you wont get the answers you're looking for until this offseason at the earliest. It's a wait and see game. So let's wait.
I've never intended to do anything else so I don't know why you keep feeling the need to make this point. I'm obviously aware of how the season/offseason cycle works, when free agency occurs, when the draft is held, etc. I understand that we won't know the nature of next year's roster until next summer and I'm well aware of the timeline for answers about the composition of the team.
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:14 pm

Mothman wrote:

Your repeated insistence on inaccurately attempting to state my views needs to end. Express your own views here and leave it others to express their views.
I'm not really sure why you're getting so bent out of shape over this. I'm not "inaccurately stating your views". I can go all over this board and quote you saying that you didn't believe they could contend because of who they have in place right now. You've stated your doubt in Zimmer. You've stated your doubt in Spielman. This isnt anything I'm making up so why do you get so bent out of shape over it? You said it. I repeated it to you because that's what you were ultimately getting to.
I wasn't saying the Vikings can't contend. They can. It's possible. I just don't think they will.
:roll: Jim I just said.....YOU DONT BELIEVE THEY WILL CONTEND and you got all defensive over it. Me saying that is 100% true so what are you even arguing. You saying that is scattered all over this board. I'm not saying you said "cant". I'm saying you dont believe they will which is the same thing that you said above. My goodness. You're too focused on the whole "can/cant/possible/impossible" thing. Move passed it. I said you dont BELIEVE in Zim and Spielman and dont BELIEVE they will contend in the near future. It's clear as day. I'm not making it up, I'm not lying, you said it. Why are you getting all defensive when I brought it up.

I've never intended to do anything else so I don't know why you keep feeling the need to make this point. I'm obviously aware of how the season/offseason cycle works, when free agency occurs, when the draft is held, etc. I understand that we won't know the nature of next year's roster until next summer and I'm well aware of the timeline for answers about the composition of the team.
You're the one that wanted answers going into next year regarding Spielman and Zimmer. How are you suppose to get them right now?? That's why I said lets wait and see
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:Like I said, I'm not going to call Atlanta a complete team. They have an average at best defense. The #1 offense and good special teams. That's 2/3 of a team. I said that before but now you're resorting back to me saying 1/3. I gave them the nod on special teams even though Devin Hester isnt on the team.
How can I phrase this so you can understand?

YOU originally called them 1/3 of a team. YOU did. Not me. That's how this idiotic exchange began. I was responding to that claim. I said their offense is elite, their special teams is good (even with the first factual mistake I've made on this board in about 10 years), and their defense is not only improving but playing at a decently high level as of late. They're top-15 in the league since Week 10, which is a FACT, no matter how you spin it. Now you've retraced your steps, calling them 2/3 of a team. FINE. But stop denying what you originally said.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:My whole point behind everything was that Atlanta was 2/3 of a team and are contending for a SB. The Vikings have 2/3 of a team but are so horrifically bad on one side of the ball that we couldnt contend. Point being, if they could get their offense to improve like Atlanta got their defense to improve a little, then it's possible for us to contend. Our offense doesnt need to be "good". It needs to be average. Like Atlanta's defense. Some people act like that is impossible. Lets see how the draft and FA turn out and then we can judge.
And if you will actually READ my posts instead of responding emotionally to "I disagree 100,000%," you'll see that my point was EXACTLY THE SAME. You're simply too hell-bent on being the expert about every single point to even notice that I FREAKING AGREED WITH YOU.

If nothing else, you've managed to make me an Atlanta Falcons fan for a week.
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Mothman
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:23 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I'm not really sure why you're getting so bent out of shape over this. I'm not "inaccurately stating your views".
They're MY views so trust me, I understand when they aren't being expressed accurately. I asked you politely to stop doing it and you've continued doing it anyway.
I can go all over this board and quote you saying that you didn't believe they could contend because of who they have in place right now. You've stated your doubt in Zimmer. You've stated your doubt in Spielman. This isnt anything I'm making up so why do you get so bent out of shape over it? You said it. I repeated it to you because that's what you were ultimately getting to.
That's both an assumption and oversimplification (ie: inaccurate again).
:roll: Jim I just said.....YOU DONT BELIEVE THEY WILL CONTEND and you got all defensive over it. Me saying that is 100% true so what are you even arguing. You saying that is scattered all over this board. I'm not saying you said "cant". I'm saying you dont believe they will which is the same thing that you said above.My goodness. You're too focused on the whole "can/cant/possible/impossible" thing. Move passed it.
It's the crux of the disagreement. I'm trying to move the discussion past it by getting you to understand and acknowledge that. That's why I quoted and highlighted your comments in my last post. You keep arguing about what's possible and as far as I can tell, nobody has excluded those possibilities. You seem to be pressing the same point in post after post (not just with me) but who disagrees with it?

As for being "bent out of shape": I'm simply asking you to stop trying to put words in the mouths of others. What you just wrote above, in all caps, is not, in fact, what you "just said" earlier today. You swapped "will" for "can", thus changing the meaning of the statement. It accurately reflects my views now but what you wrote earlier ("you don't believe this team can contend with them there") did not. In other words, I was defensive because you weren't respecting my request to stop stating my views for me and because you were inaccurate again. You didn't even repeat your own comment accurately which should illustrate the pitfalls of trying to tell others what they think. When you keep presuming to tell someone else their own views you're bound to get it wrong so please, just don't do it. If they're unclear, ask for clarification but don't keep insistently telling people what they think (whether it's me or anybody else here).
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:26 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: How can I phrase this so you can understand?

YOU originally called them 1/3 of a team. YOU did. Not me. That's how this idiotic exchange began. I was responding to that claim. I said their offense is elite, their special teams is good (even with the first factual mistake I've made on this board in about 10 years), and their defense is not only improving but playing at a decently high level as of late. They're top-15 in the league since Week 10, which is a FACT, no matter how you spin it. Now you've retraced your steps, calling them 2/3 of a team. FINE. But stop denying what you originally said.
And if you will actually READ my posts instead of responding emotionally to "I disagree 100,000%," you'll see that my point was EXACTLY THE SAME. You're simply too hell-bent on being the expert about every single point to even notice that I FREAKING AGREED WITH YOU.

If nothing else, you've managed to make me an Atlanta Falcons fan for a week.
:lol: That last line made me laugh.
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:48 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: How can I phrase this so you can understand?

YOU originally called them 1/3 of a team. YOU did. Not me. That's how this idiotic exchange began. I was responding to that claim. I said their offense is elite, their special teams is good (even with the first factual mistake I've made on this board in about 10 years), and their defense is not only improving but playing at a decently high level as of late. They're top-15 in the league since Week 10, which is a FACT, no matter how you spin it. Now you've retraced your steps, calling them 2/3 of a team. FINE. But stop denying what you originally said.
I'm not retracting my steps. I just wasnt really considering special teams. I never said their special teams was bad or something. It's just that having a legit special teams isn't whats going to win you a SB necessarily. I mean if it comes down to the final kick or something sure. But any kicker outside of Blair Walsh can hit a game winning kick. It doesnt mean you necessarily have a good special teams. I said Atlanta's defense has been playing better as of late but I still don't look at them as a good defense. I'm not "denying what I said" as much as you might think I am. I just wasnt really paying any attention to special teams. If you have a good offense or defense and a good special teams it still doesnt mean you have a complete team.
Pondering Her Percy wrote: And if you will actually READ my posts instead of responding emotionally to "I disagree 100,000%," you'll see that my point was EXACTLY THE SAME. You're simply too hell-bent on being the expert about every single point to even notice that I FREAKING AGREED WITH YOU.

If nothing else, you've managed to make me an Atlanta Falcons fan for a week.
But yeah that's what I'm doing is trying to be an "expert" about every single point :roll:

I'm just saying bottom line is, I don't look at Atlanta's defense as a good defense. Simple as that. We have a good defense. Atlanta's isn't comparable nor has the talent we do on defense. So if we're a good defense, why would I think Atlanta is to given how they've played ALL year?

Man did this thread get derailed :lol: I'll take part of the blame on that one
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:59 pm

Mothman wrote:
They're MY views so trust me, I understand when they aren't being expressed accurately. I asked you politely to stop doing it and you've continued doing it anyway.


Then what am I saying that's false when I say you don't believe that this team can contend with the current coaching staff and GM? That's what I said you were saying and now you're saying they are inaccurate. You've said it all over this board. :confused:
That's both an assumption and oversimplification (ie: inaccurate again).
So you didnt express that you didnt have the confidence in Spielman and Zimmer?? Werent you the guy that wanted answers saying why should we believe in these guys? What have they done? Etc. You didnt say you don't believe they can contend with the current coaches and front office??

It's the crux of the disagreement. I'm trying to move the discussion past it by getting you to understand and acknowledge that. That's why I quoted and highlighted your comments in my last post. You keep arguing about what's possible and as far as I can tell, nobody has excluded those possibilities. You seem to be pressing the same point in post after post (not just with me) but who disagrees with it?


As for being "bent out of shape": I'm simply asking you to stop trying to put words in the mouths of others. What you just wrote above, in all caps, is not, in fact, what you "just said" earlier today. You swapped "will" for "can", thus changing the meaning of the statement. It accurately reflects my views now but what you wrote earlier ("you don't believe this team can contend with them there") did not. In other words, I was defensive because you weren't respecting my request to stop stating my views for me and because you were inaccurate again. You didn't even repeat your own comment accurately which should illustrate the pitfalls of trying to tell others what they think. When you keep presuming to tell someone else their own views you're bound to get it wrong so please, just don't do it. If they're unclear, ask for clarification but don't keep insistently telling people what they think (whether it's me or anybody else here).
You are saying you didnt believe they could contend with these guys. I'm saying I do believe they can. Of course it's possible. We've established that. Anything is possible in this league. But you didnt believe it would happen. Thats where the whole disagreement came in. Outside of that, I'm not going to sit here and critique 1 or two words that you've battled me over. Like I said above, this thread has been derailed by a mile. I take part of the blame but I have no problem not having to type paragraphs arguing a word or two. Moving on....
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Mothman » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:25 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

Then what am I saying that's false when I say you don't believe that this team can contend with the current coaching staff and GM? That's what I said you were saying and now you're saying they are inaccurate. You've said it all over this board. :confused:
So you didnt express that you didnt have the confidence in Spielman and Zimmer?? Werent you the guy that wanted answers saying why should we believe in these guys? What have they done? Etc. You didnt say you don't believe they can contend with the current coaches and front office??
You are saying you didnt believe they could contend with these guys. I'm saying I do believe they can. Of course it's possible. We've established that. Anything is possible in this league. But you didnt believe it would happen. Thats where the whole disagreement came in. Outside of that, I'm not going to sit here and critique 1 or two words that you've battled me over. Like I said above, this thread has been derailed by a mile. I take part of the blame but I have no problem not having to type paragraphs arguing a word or two. Moving on....
By all means, move on but as you do, get the message: don't put words in the mouths of others. Express your views and leave it to others to express their views.
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Re: New RB Coach?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:54 pm

Mothman wrote: By all means, move on but as you do, get the message: don't put words in the mouths of others. Express your views and leave it to others to express their views.
And I'll sit here and continue to say I never once did that. So think what you want but I simply repeated what you said. There is nothing wrong with questioning the views of others on a message board. I never put words into anyone's mouth as long as I've been on this board. I've been in my fair share of heated battles but I've never once sat here trying to tell people what they think. That makes no sense for anyone to do to begin with. People post what they think and that is what I have addressed. Never tried to put words in their mouth. Feel free to PM me if necessary but like I said, I did nothing wrong. I brought up what you've said across this forum. You didnt keep it any kind of secret. Big deal.
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