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 Vikings Grades: Quarterback 
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
720pete wrote:
Cliff wrote:
Sure, I agree that the OL is part of the problem but that doesn't explain the last 5-6 years where it's been the same story. Having two defensive-minded head coaches back to back probably has something to do with that though.


I would argue that this year the short passing was due to an OL problem, but in the previous 4 years it was due to an incapable QB problem or no depth at WR.

2016: Capable QB, Incapable OL, OK depth at WR
2011-15: Incapable QB, Capable/passable OL, no depth at WR

Our past WR corps certainly didn't inspire fear in opposing secondaries:
2011 (Ponder): Emmanuel Arceneaux, Devin Aromashadu, Greg Camarillo, Percy Harvin
2012 (Ponder): Devin Aromashadu, Stephen Burton, Michael Jenkins, Jerome Simpson, Jarius Wright
2013 (Cassel, Ponder, Freeman): Greg Jennings, Cordarelle Patterson, Jarius Wright, Rodney Smith, Joe Webb
2014 (Bridgewater, Ponder): Greg Jennings, Charles Johnson, Adam Thielen, Cordarelle Patterson, Jarius Wright
2015 (Bridgewater): Stefon Diggs, Charles Johnson, Cordarelle Patterson, Mike Wallace, Jarius Wright

Why did you have to show this? Now I'm depressed.

The fact that Devin Aromashau shows up on this list for two consecutive seasons sends me running for the Prozac.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
IT'S HERE: The 2016-17 Deep Ball Project is out now. See how well your quarterback did downfield.


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All things considered, however, you just may be surprised by Bradford’s downfield passing. His reputation is that of a short passer, but that’s unearned. Playing behind the worst offensive line in the league, little time is given for Bradford to develop his reads or the receivers to progress on their routes, leading to missed opportunities and sacks.

But when Bradford was able to release the ball, he did it with extreme efficiency. If you’re aware of my past work, you’ll know Bradford was graded highly in the 2015-16 DBP. Usually, there’s nowhere to go but down, but Bradford found a way to go up, further increasing his accuracy with tight, precise downfield bombs hitting receivers in stride and away from defenders. He finished with the highest overall downfield accuracy in 2016, with 66.7% of his passes being accurate.



The 2016-17 Deep Ball Project

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Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:38 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
I know some people here didn't like Wallace or think he was worth the money, but he did just put up over 1000 yards this past season. I think it would have been interesting to see what he would have put up with Bradford who seems to have a pretty accurate deep ball.


Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Crax wrote:
I know some people here didn't like Wallace or think he was worth the money, but he did just put up over 1000 yards this past season. I think it would have been interesting to see what he would have put up with Bradford who seems to have a pretty accurate deep ball.


I just alluded to something similar in the other thread. Diggs, Thielen, Wallace would have made for a pretty decent trio I think.


Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:13 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Crax wrote:
I know some people here didn't like Wallace or think he was worth the money, but he did just put up over 1000 yards this past season. I think it would have been interesting to see what he would have put up with Bradford who seems to have a pretty accurate deep ball.


I agree. Teddy's deep ball had definitely not been perfected yet.

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Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:25 am
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Cliff wrote:
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Earned the NFL record for completion percentage (71.6) while averaging the shortest average throw by depth (6.6 yards) in the league


Best accuracy in the league but with the shortest average throw depth in the league? Sounds familiar.


Yup, further proof that trying to throw deep while wearing an opposing DE is pretty difficult.

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Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:11 am
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Our system doesnt call for very many deep balls. Thats why neither Teddy nor Sam have big numbers in that regard. Their 'deep' balls were almost entirely YaC. Which is fine, for a while. But Rick better figure something out to have an actually deep ball while we have Sam. To give us some running room at least.


Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Our system doesnt call for very many deep balls. Thats why neither Teddy nor Sam have big numbers in that regard. Their 'deep' balls were almost entirely YaC. Which is fine, for a while. But Rick better figure something out to have an actually deep ball while we have Sam. To give us some running room at least.


As I've said before, we were tied for like 10th in 20+ yard passing plays this year. So no it wasnt almost entirely YAC. Sam hit on quite a few deep balls

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Our system doesnt call for very many deep balls. Thats why neither Teddy nor Sam have big numbers in that regard. Their 'deep' balls were almost entirely YaC. Which is fine, for a while. But Rick better figure something out to have an actually deep ball while we have Sam. To give us some running room at least.


We don't call many deep passing plays cause of our o-line I think that's pretty obvious. Our system shouldn't be limited to we don't call plays that often, it's a horrible mindset and good teams don't think this way. You win whatever way you can regardless of players or scheme. They load up the secondary Brady changes to a run, they crowd the line throw it. Watched for years as this franchise constantly ran Peterson in passing situations simply cause we were a run first team and that's our strong point blah blah just a bunch of excuses franchise just doesn't get it yet and won't win anything till they do.

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Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:48 am
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Cliff wrote:
Quote:
Earned the NFL record for completion percentage (71.6) while averaging the shortest average throw by depth (6.6 yards) in the league


Best accuracy in the league but with the shortest average throw depth in the league? Sounds familiar.


:roll: I guess several franchise QBs and some middle-range starters really blew this year too then.

2016 season QB YPC
7.09 Carson Palmer
7.03 Derek Carr
7.02 Sam Bradford
6.88 Cam Newton
6.73 Eli Manningface
6.25 Blake Bortles
6.42 Joe Flacco

It's amazing, we get average to good QB play for one season and people are still looking for ways to blame all of our problems on QB play. :roll:


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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
720pete wrote:
Cliff wrote:
Quote:
Earned the NFL record for completion percentage (71.6) while averaging the shortest average throw by depth (6.6 yards) in the league


Best accuracy in the league but with the shortest average throw depth in the league? Sounds familiar.


:roll: I guess several franchise QBs and some middle-range starters really blew this year too then.

2016 season QB YPC
7.09 Carson Palmer
7.03 Derek Carr
7.02 Sam Bradford
6.88 Cam Newton
6.73 Eli Manningface
6.25 Blake Bortles
6.42 Joe Flacco

It's amazing, we get average to good QB play for one season and people are still looking for ways to blame all of our problems on QB play. :roll:


Obviously, Sam did relatively well with the circumstances he faced. He certainly does some things very well, but there are reasons that two teams have sought to replace him, and all the purple kool-aid in the world isn't going to keep those reasons from becoming evident to all in due course. If the vikings hitch their wagon to Sam longterm, it will be a mistake.


Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:46 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:
Obviously, Sam did relatively well with the circumstances he faced. He certainly does some things very well, but there are reasons that two teams have sought to replace him, and all the purple kool-aid in the world isn't going to keep those reasons from becoming evident to all in due course. If the vikings hitch their wagon to Sam longterm, it will be a mistake.


I disagree. Throwing for almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs given the OL he had, thats one solid QB. And as we know, solid QBs are very hard to find especially with recent weak draft classes. Still draft someone behind him, but we have to extend the guy or we will be in another hunt once again.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:

Obviously, Sam did relatively well with the circumstances he faced. He certainly does some things very well, but there are reasons that two teams have sought to replace him, and all the purple kool-aid in the world isn't going to keep those reasons from becoming evident to all in due course. If the vikings hitch their wagon to Sam longterm, it will be a mistake.


Exactly. That is why I am not in the majority saying we NEED to extend Sam Bradford before/during the 2017 season. We need to see him play all 16 games and we need to see him lead us to the playoffs. Stats mean very little if you are not winning games.

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Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:39 am
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
720pete wrote:
2016 season QB YPC
7.09 Carson Palmer
7.03 Derek Carr
7.02 Sam Bradford
6.88 Cam Newton
6.73 Eli Manningface
6.25 Blake Bortles
6.42 Joe Flacco

It's amazing, we get average to good QB play for one season and people are still looking for ways to blame all of our problems on QB play. :roll


I wasn't blaming the QB. I was more pointing out that those stats are very similar to Bridgewater but they were negatives for him. Short average depth with above average/great accuracy has been the story of the Vikings passing game for years now and it hasn't been great.

I'm happy with Bradford, personally.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Cliff wrote:
Quote:

Obviously, Sam did relatively well with the circumstances he faced. He certainly does some things very well, but there are reasons that two teams have sought to replace him, and all the purple kool-aid in the world isn't going to keep those reasons from becoming evident to all in due course. If the vikings hitch their wagon to Sam longterm, it will be a mistake.
[/quote]

The only mistake will be picking up Bridgewater's 5th year. He isn't half the QB Sam is. And yes, there are reasons 2 teams moved on. 1) The Rams ONLY moved on after 2 consecutive ACL's, had ZERO to do with ability. And the only reason Philly moved on is because Kelly got canned and Pederson wanted "his guy"

I will remind you he was replaced in effect by the #1 and #2 picks in last years draft, neither of which are a pimple on Bradford's azz.

Your a TB guy I get it but friend facts are facts, if TB and SB came out the same year there would have been zero people who would have taken Teddy, ZERO. And that gap has only widened.


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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
RFIP wrote:
The only mistake will be picking up Bridgewater's 5th year. He isn't half the QB Sam is. And yes, there are reasons 2 teams moved on. 1) The Rams ONLY moved on after 2 consecutive ACL's, had ZERO to do with ability. And the only reason Philly moved on is because Kelly got canned and Pederson wanted "his guy"

I will remind you he was replaced in effect by the #1 and #2 picks in last years draft, neither of which are a pimple on Bradford's azz.

Your a TB guy I get it but friend facts are facts, if TB and SB came out the same year there would have been zero people who would have taken Teddy, ZERO. And that gap has only widened.


Very good point. Bradford is a good QB that got caught up in bad situations/injuries.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
RFIP wrote:

The only mistake will be picking up Bridgewater's 5th year. He isn't half the QB Sam is. And yes, there are reasons 2 teams moved on. 1) The Rams ONLY moved on after 2 consecutive ACL's, had ZERO to do with ability. And the only reason Philly moved on is because Kelly got canned and Pederson wanted "his guy"

I will remind you he was replaced in effect by the #1 and #2 picks in last years draft, neither of which are a pimple on Bradford's azz.

Your a TB guy I get it but friend facts are facts, if TB and SB came out the same year there would have been zero people who would have taken Teddy, ZERO. And that gap has only widened.


I think you are right.


Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:04 am
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
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Sam Bradford has thrown an interception on only 0.9% of his attempts this last two years.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
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Sam Bradford has thrown an interception on only 0.9% of his attempts this last two years.


hypothetically, if the Vikings were to put Bradford on the trade block, what do you think they could get for him?


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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Quote:
Sam Bradford has thrown an interception on only 0.9% of his attempts this last two years.


hypothetically, if the Vikings were to put Bradford on the trade block, what do you think they could get for him?


I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some


Do you think there is a team that would give a first round pick, and if so, who?


Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:05 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some


Do you think there is a team that would give a first round pick, and if so, who?


Oh I think Cleveland would in a heartbeat. Especially have 2 first rounders. Clearly they wouldnt give us 1 overall but I could see them giving us 12. I could see Houston doing it also.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some


Do you think there is a team that would give a first round pick, and if so, who?


Oh I think Cleveland would in a heartbeat. Especially have 2 first rounders. Clearly they wouldnt give us 1 overall but I could see them giving us 12. I could see Houston doing it also.


Would you trade Bradford for the 12th overall pick?


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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:

Would you trade Bradford for the 12th overall pick?


No not at this point. We'd be searching for a QB again.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
fiestavike wrote:

Would you trade Bradford for the 12th overall pick?


No not at this point. We'd be searching for a QB again.

It's actually a fair question though. But 8 hope they don't do it.

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Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some


Do you think there is a team that would give a first round pick, and if so, who?


I think 2018 would be a huge year for Sam to pick his team. Houston, Denver, Arizona all will need QB's. Problem for this year is Houston got burned last year with Brock and Elway is still playing hard-azz games so I'd say those two would be out and Arizona is taking one last swing with Palmer.

Add in the aging QB's in Pittsburgh, NY, NO and you just never know which will be interested in Sam next year which is why he's not signing ANY long term deal in Mn unless it truly IS a long term deal and not a 1 year and we can dump you thereafter deal.

Yep, in 9-10 months he will be in HIGH demand if he's on the open market.


Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:58 pm
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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
RFIP wrote:
fiestavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:

I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some


Do you think there is a team that would give a first round pick, and if so, who?


I think 2018 would be a huge year for Sam to pick his team. Houston, Denver, Arizona all will need QB's. Problem for this year is Houston got burned last year with Brock and Elway is still playing hard-azz games so I'd say those two would be out and Arizona is taking one last swing with Palmer.

Add in the aging QB's in Pittsburgh, NY, NO and you just never know which will be interested in Sam next year which is why he's not signing ANY long term deal in Mn unless it truly IS a long term deal and not a 1 year and we can dump you thereafter deal.

Yep, in 9-10 months he will be in HIGH demand if he's on the open market.


Agreed. I honestly can't see him having a bad year given that we are in the process of improving the OL, he's got good WRs, hopefully improving the OL improves the running game which it should just with Reiff and Remmers alone, etc. He's been pretty flawless at the end of 2015 and all of last year. He's always been a very good pocket passer. The key is, giving him a pocket to pass in. But what he did, given what he had at RB and the OL this year, it was pretty impressive.

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Didn't Houston trade Brock because they thought they would get Romo?

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
Have there been any rumblings about extending Sam?

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Post Re: Vikings Grades: Quarterback
fiestavike wrote:
I would say he easily warrants a first round pick. He had his best season ever, almost 4000 yards, 20 TDs and 5 INTs with no OL support or running support. Thats pretty darn good if you ask me and very worthy of a first round pick plus some


Do you think there is a team that would give a first round pick, and if so, who?[/quote]

Oh I think Cleveland would in a heartbeat. Especially have 2 first rounders. Clearly they wouldnt give us 1 overall but I could see them giving us 12. I could see Houston doing it also.[/quote]

Would you trade Bradford for the 12th overall pick?[/quote]

No chance Cleveland CAN make the trade of #12 for Sam because, as I have said over and over Sam is NEVER signing a long term deal with a team he does not want to play for. Therefore Bradford is holding ALL the cards in any potential trade. Add in the fact that Zimmer knows he needs to win this year and minus 8 he has less than no chance.

It's a fun exercise but the facts are this; Sam either signs a long term deal in Minny, Vikings tag him in 18', he walks as a FA or they trade him to the team of HIS choosing where he signs a long term deal PRE-trade.


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