Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay cut

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Alaskan wrote:
This sums it up nicely. They'll be lucky to land a solid O linemen in free agency. If they do they'll overpay like they did for Boone. The O line fix is not a simple one. There are several other teams that are contenders whom need O linemen bad too.
First of all, why would we be "lucky"? We have the cap room. Yeah there are other teams that need OL help but its our #1 priority and we have the money to spend.

Also, we definitely did not "overpay" Boone. We gave him a 4 year 26.8 mill contract. Making around 6 mill annually vs. Osemele who got a 5 year 58 mill deal making 11.7 annually. Boone was a solid guard this year and has been in the pro bowl. And would have been even better if he didnt have the worst tackle of the century next to him all year. Osemele makes almost double what Boone makes. Osemele is better, yes but not almost 6 million more a year better.

We pulled out of the running for Osemele so Boone was one of the only options left or else we wouldnt have a LG at all.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

Post by Alaskan »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: First of all, why would we be "lucky"? We have the cap room. Yeah there are other teams that need OL help but its our #1 priority and we have the money to spend.

Also, we definitely did not "overpay" Boone. We gave him a 4 year 26.8 mill contract. Making around 6 mill annually vs. Osemele who got a 5 year 58 mill deal making 11.7 annually. Boone was a solid guard this year and has been in the pro bowl. And would have been even better if he didnt have the worst tackle of the century next to him all year. Osemele makes almost double what Boone makes. Osemele is better, yes but not almost 6 million more a year better.
Its been talked about a lot on here already, but a lot of these supposed FA O linemen most likely wont hit the open market and the ones that do are going to be overpriced and not really worthy of a long term deal IMO. Don't get me wrong, I think they'll piece together a mediocre group that gets the job done. But it won't be "fixed" in the near term. Its gonna take some time.

Boone is mediocre at best. Not a big fan of his. I think they overpaid for what he offers. Not many other teams were hot on his trail last year when the Vikes signed him. Usually that's a pretty good indicator. He's comes from a power blocking background, isn't overly athletic and not the greatest fit for the zone schemes the Vikes will be nearly exclusive too now. He's a big talker though.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Alaskan, I have said multiple times that Wagner and Zeitler have a good shot to hit the open market because it's been reported. Not one person on here has quoted something suggesting they will be re-signed. It's seems like fans are just going off the cuff saying that because they are good players. Neither team has opened talks with them. Could they? Sure. But it's starting to look more and more likely they both leave. I'm sure most people didn't think Osemele would hit last year and he did. So my question is, why is it unlikely these guys hit? It's being pulled from the sky

As for Boone:
Five years, $26.8 million with $10 million guaranteed

It seems that if there was an area where a good-value contract could be had, it was on the O-line. While J.R. Sweezy got paid significantly more on the basis of the odd highlight-reel block, Alex Boone is a far more proven and accomplished player, and cost the Minnesota Vikings far less to bring on board. At his peak in 2012, Boone was one of the best guards in football, and while he hasn’t really hit that form since, he remains a capable starter who surrendered only three sacks and 17 total pressures last season—almost half as many as Sweezy.
Thats via PFF. First of all, that doesn't sound like "mediocre at best" to me AND proves he wasn't "overpaid"
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:Alaskan, I have said multiple times that Wagner and Zeitler have a good shot to hit the open market because it's been reported. Not one person on here has quoted something suggesting they will be re-signed. It's seems like fans are just going off the cuff saying that because they are good players. Neither team has opened talks with them.


It's still relatively early. We usually don't hear much about those kind of negotiations until closer to the combine. Note that the Vikings haven't made overtures to their free agents yet either.

From what I've read, Zeitler seems likely to hit free agency. He's also likely to be considered the top guard available so there will be competition for his services and he will probably be signed at a premium price. It's hard to imagine the Vikings paying such a price for a guard after signing Boone to a substantial contract last season and with two starting tackle positions open. I consider Zeitler a long shot to land in Minnesota.

At this point, it looks like Wagner will probably hit free agency too, mainly because the Ravens might not have the cap space to keep him. Indications are that they;d like to keep him though. There's also speculation that, because it's a seller's market at his position, Wagner could sign a deal as lucrative as $10+ million a year. If true, would that actually be a wise investment for the Vikings? Wagner's a solid tackle but paying solid players like elite players is one way teams seeking solutions can end up buying problems in free agency.

There will be competition for these guys. The Vikes are likely to get one of them at most.
Thats via PFF. First of all, that doesn't sound like "mediocre at best" to me AND proves he wasn't "overpaid"
It proves nothing. PFF provides analysis by amateurs and people lap it up like it's gospel. Any Vikes fan who paid attention to Boone's performance last year could see he was mediocre (when he wasn't just plain bad, which he was at times).
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

Post by fiestavike »

Mothman wrote:

It's still relatively early. We usually don't hear much about those kind of negotiations until closer to the combine. Note that the Vikings haven't made overtures to their free agents yet either.

From what I've read, Zeitler seems likely to hit free agency. He's also likely to be considered the top guard available so there will be competition for his services and he will probably be signed at a premium price. It's hard to imagine the Vikings paying such a price for a guard after signing Boone to a substantial contract last season and with two starting tackle positions open. I consider Zeitler a long shot to land in Minnesota.

At this point, it looks like Wagner will probably hit free agency too, mainly because the Ravens might not have the cap space to keep him. Indications are that they;d like to keep him though. There's also speculation that, because it's a seller's market at his position, Wagner could sign a deal as lucrative as $10+ million a year. If true, would that actually be a wise investment for the Vikings? Wagner's a solid tackle but paying solid players like elite players is one way teams seeking solutions can end up buying problems in free agency.

There will be competition for these guys. The Vikes are likely to get one of them at most.
It proves nothing. PFF provides analysis by amateurs and people lap it up like it's gospel. Any Vikes fan who paid attention to Boone's performance last year could see he was mediocre (when he wasn't just plain bad, which he was at times).
I'd look for the vikings to sign more players of Boone's caliber. Low end starters and quasi starters who will mark a huge upgrade from the depth/practice squad and not NFL worthy players they were trotting out last year. That means, retaining Kalil in all likelihood. :puke:
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote:
It's still relatively early. We usually don't hear much about those kind of negotiations until closer to the combine. Note that the Vikings haven't made overtures to their free agents yet either.

From what I've read, Zeitler seems likely to hit free agency. He's also likely to be considered the top guard available so there will be competition for his services and he will probably be signed at a premium price. It's hard to imagine the Vikings paying such a price for a guard after signing Boone to a substantial contract last season and with two starting tackle positions open. I consider Zeitler a long shot to land in Minnesota.

At this point, it looks like Wagner will probably hit free agency too, mainly because the Ravens might not have the cap space to keep him. Indications are that they;d like to keep him though. There's also speculation that, because it's a seller's market at his position, Wagner could sign a deal as lucrative as $10+ million a year. If true, would that actually be a wise investment for the Vikings? Wagner's a solid tackle but paying solid players like elite players is one way teams seeking solutions can end up buying problems in free agency.

There will be competition for these guys. The Vikes are likely to get one of them at most.
Yeah I couldnt see us landing both. But I just feel more comfortable with Wagner. We need at least one very good OT.

It proves nothing. PFF provides analysis by amateurs and people lap it up like it's gospel. Any Vikes fan who paid attention to Boone's performance last year could see he was mediocre (when he wasn't just plain bad, which he was at times).
I disagree. I thought Boone was solid. Not great but solid. He was a serviceable starter. But like I said before, he also had the worst tackle of the decade next to him. How often was something that Boone forced to the outside, was whiffed on by Clemmings? He had next to no help on one side of him.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:Yeah I couldnt see us landing both. But I just feel more comfortable with Wagner. We need at least one very good OT.
I agree but I think he's a pretty average starter, certainly worth signing but not necessarily worthy of a huge contract. If the market drives his price too high, I'm not sure it would be smart to sign him. We'll see what happens...
I disagree. I thought Boone was solid. Not great but solid. He was a serviceable starter.
Isn't serviceable basically another word for mediocre? ;) Maybe it's a little better, I don't want to split hairs. I think he was average, adequate, mediocre, serviceable ... somewhere in that uninspiring range of adjectives.
But like I said before, he also had the worst tackle of the decade next to him. How often was something that Boone forced to the outside, was whiffed on by Clemmings? He had next to no help on one side of him.
That may have been a mitigating factor but it doesn't excuse his overall performance, which was disappointing.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Mothman wrote:
I agree but I think he's a pretty average starter, certainly worth signing but not necessarily worthy of a huge contract. If the market drives his price too high, I'm not sure it would be smart to sign him. We'll see what happens...
Not sure where you're coming up with the "average" starter or the $10+ million a year stuff. I also know you arent a big PFF fan but....(this is via Rotoworld)
The Ravens aren't expected to re-sign impending free agent RT Rick Wagner.
Wagner just finished out his rookie contract. He graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 4 pass-blocking right tackle this season and has missed just two games in four seasons. Wagner was PFF's No. 1 overall right tackle in 2014. The Ravens wouldn't pay LG Kelechi Osemele last offseason and don't appear prepared to do so with Wagner. He'll likely command $6-7 million per year.
He's definitely more than just average. He's one of the better pass blocking RT's in the NFL and is very durable. Maybe that he isnt a household name is maybe why you thought he was average, I dont know. But he's definitely a very good RT. Also, if that 6-7 mill price tag is any bit true, I'd be hopping all over it. I'd even be willing to pay him more than that if it comes down to it.

Isn't serviceable basically another word for mediocre? ;) Maybe it's a little better, I don't want to split hairs. I think he was average, adequate, mediocre, serviceable ... somewhere in that uninspiring range of adjectives.
I suppose. I just think he was better than that

That may have been a mitigating factor but it doesn't excuse his overall performance, which was disappointing.
What was disappointing was Clemmings, Fusco and Sirles. I thought Boone and Berger were two of the bright spots on that line.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:Alaskan, I have said multiple times that Wagner and Zeitler have a good shot to hit the open market because it's been reported. Not one person on here has quoted something suggesting they will be re-signed. It's seems like fans are just going off the cuff saying that because they are good players. Neither team has opened talks with them. Could they? Sure. But it's starting to look more and more likely they both leave. I'm sure most people didn't think Osemele would hit last year and he did. So my question is, why is it unlikely these guys hit? It's being pulled from the sky

As for Boone:
Thats via PFF. First of all, that doesn't sound like "mediocre at best" to me AND proves he wasn't "overpaid"
I am sick of speculating on O-linemen. The horse has been beat to death and you have stood your ground with your position. We can agree to disagree on Boone. They will muddle together a semi-serviceable unit and that's about the best we can hope for. They aren't going to be a dominant group anytime soon. I think serviceable could be enough to allow them to contend, I am not arguing that. Denver won a Super Bowl in 15 with a serviceable group up front and the least mobile QB in the league that year. Seattle hasn't had a serviceable group in years. So its possible, and that's the team they have been trying to build since Zimmer showed up. I feel its the best plan without an elite QB. Ball control Offense, weather its dink and dunk or running the ball with the ability to stretch the field enough to keep defenses off balance. A stout Defense (which we have). They need to figure out the interior D line personnel to get more consistent with stuffing the run. I am confident that fix is doable with even the current personnel. I am with you on the fact the team isn't far away, I may not agree with all of the details, but I like the team we have built here.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Not sure where you're coming up with the "average" starter or the $10+ million a year stuff. I also know you arent a big PFF fan but....(this is via Rotoworld)
He's definitely more than just average. He's one of the better pass blocking RT's in the NFL and is very durable. Maybe that he isnt a household name is maybe why you thought he was average, I dont know.
PFF assessments are never going to convince me because even though they can be interesting, I don't consider them nearly reliable enough to be definitive. I consider Wagner average because as starting NFL tackles go, I think he falls in the middle of the pack, which equates to average. Average isn't bad, it's just average. I give run-blocking and pass protection equal weight. He's been quite good at times but inconsistent. He's not a $10 million a year tackle, at least not in my opinion.

The speculation that Wagner could get that amount or more in this year's FA market comes from NFL.com's Gregg Rosenthal. I saw it in the Baltimore Sun and included a link to it when I mentioned it above.
What was disappointing was Clemmings, Fusco and Sirles. I thought Boone and Berger were two of the bright spots on that line.
They may have looked bright in comparison to the rest of the line but that's a low standard to set. They still weren't good, particularly when run blocking.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Alaskan wrote:
I am sick of speculating on O-linemen. The horse has been beat to death and you have stood your ground with your position. We can agree to disagree on Boone. They will muddle together a semi-serviceable unit and that's about the best we can hope for. They aren't going to be a dominant group anytime soon. I think serviceable could be enough to allow them to contend, I am not arguing that. Denver won a Super Bowl in 15 with a serviceable group up front and the least mobile QB in the league that year. Seattle hasn't had a serviceable group in years. So its possible, and that's the team they have been trying to build since Zimmer showed up. I feel its the best plan without an elite QB. Ball control Offense, weather its dink and dunk or running the ball with the ability to stretch the field enough to keep defenses off balance. A stout Defense (which we have). They need to figure out the interior D line personnel to get more consistent with stuffing the run. I am confident that fix is doable with even the current personnel. I am with you on the fact the team isn't far away, I may not agree with all of the details, but I like the team we have built here.
Nobody is saying they are going to build a dominant group right now. They just need to be a middle of the pack OL and that will give us enough to contend. However, I feel like some, at times, hold an OL to Dallas' standards which annoys me (not you just in general).
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:Nobody is saying they are going to build a dominant group right now. They just need to be a middle of the pack OL and that will give us enough to contend. However, I feel like some, at times, hold an OL to Dallas' standards which annoys me (not you just in general).
It's funny, I feel like some here hold the OL to relatively low standards because they've grown accustomed to an inadequate level of play from Vikings lines. I've felt the same way about the Vikings WR group for years.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

Some of these guys looked just horrible. And I bet Rick and Zimmer once again pay little attention to the Oline (and then hopefully its the end of Rick's era).

But what if the new OC's zone blocking works. If we had a running game to keep the defenses honest, I think Sam can hit some 20+ yard passes. Even the 10-20 ones consistently. And that wins ball games.

What type of blocking do the NE Pats use? Looked like zone but it happens so fast its so hard to tell.
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

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PurpleKoolaid wrote: And I bet Rick and Zimmer once again pay little attention to the Oline (and then hopefully its the end of Rick's era).
And I'd be willing to bet against that. Do you not listen to Zim's comments for how long now regarding the OL? But yeah, they just aren't going to pay any attention :whistle:
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Re: Vikings RB Adrian Peterson wants to return, open to pay

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote:
PFF assessments are never going to convince me because even though they can be interesting, I don't consider them nearly reliable enough to be definitive. I consider Wagner average because as starting NFL tackles go, I think he falls in the middle of the pack, which equates to average. Average isn't bad, it's just average. I give run-blocking and pass protection equal weight. He's been quite good at times but inconsistent. He's not a $10 million a year tackle, at least not in my opinion.

The speculation that Wagner could get that amount or more in this year's FA market comes from NFL.com's Gregg Rosenthal. I saw it in the Baltimore Sun and included a link to it when I mentioned it above.
But where are you getting the whole average thing from?? I am willing to bet that you, me and anyone else on here don't watch enough Ravens games to truly evaluate him ourselves. He wouldnt have a very good pass blocking grade if he was average. He's been on of the more consistent tackles over the past few years when it comes to play and durability. Like I said, I feel like you're just plucking the average tag out of the air because he isn't a household name and you don't hear of him as much. If you're watching Ravens games and evaluating, then ok but like I said, I'm guessing you're not nor do it. So what we have to go off of is the media and PFF. All of them speak very highly of Wagner. What he makes is completely up in the air so I'm not relying much on that until I actually see it but bottom line is, he's not a middle of the pack RT. He's a very good RT. Elite? No. But definitely good.

They may have looked bright in comparison to the rest of the line but that's a low standard to set. They still weren't good, particularly when run blocking.
I mean I would be referring back to PFF regarding those two but I'll pass on even continuing with that.
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