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 That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season 
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Post That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Post your final thoughts on the 8-8 season below.

I'm glad the team ended the year on a positive note, with a win.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:33 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Disappointing I think is the theme. Nice to end the season on a strong note.

I think 9 different o-line combinations about sums it up. And that doesn't even account for guys who didn't make it to game 1 (Harris and Loadholt). Adam Thielen had a heck of a season and so did Rudolph. Those two, Diggs, and hopefully Treadwell make for a decent receiving corps. It will be interesting to see what is done with Patterson. I'm on the fence aboutShumur but leaning towards bringing him back. Sam seems to like him and he had a tough assignment taking over mid season. I think AD may be gone, I just don't see him willing to take the pay cut needed to stay.

Defense will remain largely in tact and while long sustained drives keep them out of the "elite" category, they're definitely good. I hope Robison is back. And I also hope Barrs fall off is due to injury.

Fix the line, find a compliment to McKinnon, and some better luck would make 2017 a potentially strong season. Injuries matter. A lot. Just look at Oakland today.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:36 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
In many ways, this was the most disappointing of my 48 seasons as a Vikings fan. Such a great start, such heart shown by the team early in the season when Teddy went down and Kalil went down and AP went down and Loadholt retired, etc. The defense was playing at a level I haven't seen in Minnesota in a long, long time. Bradford really acclimated himself quickly and performed admirably. I didn't know if this was truly a Super Bowl team, but it sure seemed like a Super Bowl defense, and I thought WHEN we got into the playoffs, anything could happen. Especially with a defense like ours.

Then the proverbial other shoe dropped, and I'm not sure I've ever seen it drop harder.

The frustration really got to me during and following the Indianapolis game. They just seemed to lay down, with their season on the line. And what REALLY sucked ... every team that needed to lose that day DID lose. Yet we totally laid an egg.

In many ways, the offense surpassed anything I thought they could do once Teddy, AP and the entire O-line went down. Meanwhile, the defense regressed in a big way. Injuries probably contributed to that ... guys like Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr and others were playing hurt near the end. But you have to be able to withstand the rigors of a 16-game season, and we just didn't.

Going forward, I actually some hope for the offense, obviously depending on the offensive line. I was pretty stunned at how easily they moved the ball the last two games. Adam Thielen established himself as a solid starter in this league with big-play potential, and Sam Bradford really found a rhythm with Kyle Rudolph. Speaking of Bradford, I believe he's found a home in Minnesota. He had a very, very good season and an extremely strong finish. I love his decision making and his deep-ball accuracy. And he's tough. Playing behind the worst O-line of his career (and he's been behind some bad ones), he managed to last the entire season.

Meanwhile, the defense has questions for me. The defensive backfield has talent, but Newman is probably done, and I'm not sure what's going to happen with Munnerlyn. Xavier Rhodes is a star, and Trae Waynes is a player who's about to become one. But we're thin at linebacker, and I question our ability to stop the run. If Newman retires and Munnerlyn leaves, who plays nickel corner?

On special teams, is Kai Forbath the "answer?" He hit all his field goals for the Vikings, but missed just as many extra points as Walsh, and doesn't have the leg on kickoffs. Locke is fine, I suppose. He had a good start to the season but seemed to tail off. I love Sherels on punt returns, and I'm hoping we re-sign CP.

I believe Shurmur will be retained, as well as Sparano. Strangely enough, I think both did a good job this season. The O-line actually got better as the season wore down. I suppose there's no fixing Clemmings, but they still managed to move the ball quite well toward the end.

Then there's Zimmer. I think the issues with his eye affected him more than he'd ever let on. I think he's improving as a manager of game situations, and he's generally very good at adjustments. He stinks with the media. It's just the truth. He really seems to loathe press conferences, but he needs to suck it up and figure out how to get better at them. I thought he was at his worst following the Indianapolis and Green Bay losses -- I know he doesn't want to answer the press' questions, but fans are going to latch on to what he says. He needs to get better there.

I honestly think this team can contend, and soon. True, we don't have a first-round pick, but essentially we do ... his name is Sam Bradford. We've just GOT to address the O-line. We've got 2nd- and 3rd-round picks, so it's possible to get some talent on the line.

Wish we could have kept up what we started, but that's not the way it happened. I'd like to say I'm used to the disappointment by now, but I don't suppose I'll ever get used to it. Here's hoping Spielman and Company address the teams needs in the offseason.

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Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:38 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I honestly think this team can contend, and soon. True, we don't have a first-round pick, but essentially we do ... his name is Sam Bradford. We've just GOT to address the O-line. We've got 2nd- and 3rd-round picks, so it's possible to get some talent on the line.



I enjoyed your post, especially the part quoted above. Bradford was SO worth that first, IMO, and I think that's the best way to look at it. We are now quite strong at the most important position in football. We may even have an abundance of talent soon, which may serve to upgrade our weaknesses via trades if we play our cards right.

I think AD is done as a Viking. The one thing the guy has never been is grounded, and it would take some real perspective for a guy like him to stick around with the Vikings. I really hope that they don't overpay him and handcuff what we are able to do at other positions. I don't trust that he can stay healthy anymore. Even when healthy, I question how long he'll be able to be as successful as some of the young bucks coming out in this year's draft will be at a much better price point. This will be the major storyline of this offseason.

Less attention grabbing, but probably more important is what we do to address the dearth of talent at OL. We have to commit resources (draft picks and FA money, namely) to this position and then we have to be less unlucky next season with injuries.

We also need to figure out what to do with Sharif Floyd. If he's done, we need a 3 technique guy that can plug the run and help Linval.

This season hurt bad. Once I got Directv they soiled the sheets, so it felt like a bit of a betrayal. I agree that Zimmer's eye situation troubled him more than he'd admit and I also agree on the pressers weakness. He needs to realize that it's not only important because of its role in fan perception, but also that it relates to the esprit du corps of the team.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:44 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
I think the future of the Vikings could be bright, if the front office handles the AP and Kalil possible re-signings in a responsible way. Even though the cap increases, if they overpay for these two it will hurt in keeping other vital players and in our free agency search.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:59 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
The Vikings lost 4 games by less than 7 points this season. At the same time they won 2 games by before stated point gap. If things had gone differently in those four losses this season would be ending on a whole different note.

Bradford put up the best stats of his career this season, I strongly believe he is the future of his team. If the front office fixes the offensive line this off season and Zimmer gets the D back to playing the way they were at the start of the season next year could be huge.

Overall, this season was a huge disappointment mainly due to the injuries that destroyed the line. I had originally predicted the Vikings would go 13-3 before the Bridgewater injury. After the injury I still thought the team would hit 10 wins, which had the ball bounced differently in a few of those close games was entirely possible.

I think this team isn't entering a rebuilding phase like many on here think, I believe they are still in their peak. If they're able to fix the offensive line I could see them making a deep playoff run next season.

Here's to the 2017 Vikings :beerock:


Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:28 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Well, should we expect anything different?

They were a Walsh missed XP and a Thielen fumbled punt away from playing next weekend.

Starting 5-0 with dominating defense nearly had me convinced this team was ready to make a deep run.

Alas, I never got my hopes too high.

Injuries on the OL were just too much to overcome.

They laid two eggs this year. At Chicago and home against Indy. Didnt expect the poor effort after the bye, either.

To me it was the third most disappointing overall year behind '98 and '06.

Here's to an exciting off season with many interesting choices to be made.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:06 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
What game did Thielen fumble a punt?

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Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:31 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
PurpleMustReign wrote:
What game did Thielen fumble a punt?

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Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:46 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Inside the 10, to boot.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:52 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
I look at it is this way...if someone were to tell me we'd finish 8-8, I would feel:

-before preseason: very disappointed
-immediately after the teddy injury: not surprised
-if you told me that we would sign Bradford, he would throw 20 TDs, 5 ints and have a record completion percentage: dumbfounded
-after the 5-0 start: stunned beyond belief.

Echoing some of the sentiments already said, through 5 games the defense played better than they had in my entire lifetime. Maybe 1/3 of a season isn't nearly enough to get that excited, but coming off of what they did last year with marked improvement, that's what they showed and I foolishly bought in.

It's stunning that this team could not muster the needed wins to qualify for the postseason in a year when everything is so watered down. Not one team in the NFC is dominant, half the teams in the afc have lost their qbs, and we will be at home watching the playoffs. Two losses to the lions, the road loss to the redskins, the mind boggling loss to the bears and the drubbing at the hands of the colts were the lowlights.Having to watch Detroit and GB play for the division tonight makes things even worse. If there are any positives in the final 11 games, I'm having a hard time finding them. Simply inexcusable, injuries acknowledged, that we missed the playoffs.

Next year, I hope we can move on from Adrian. Zimmer will hopefully regain whatever he lost in the locker room, and obviously I hope we can sign about 6 new linemen. Other than that, things are great.


Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:56 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Texas Vike wrote:
I agree that Zimmer's eye situation troubled him more than he'd admit and I also agree on the pressers weakness. He needs to realize that it's not only important because of its role in fan perception, but also that it relates to the esprit du corps of the team.

Interesting take. I wrote about this a little in another topic. I've watched enough Zimmer press conferences (because basically I have no life) to know that the media bait him -- and it appears he doesn't even realize it. They know he hates doing pressers, so they use it against him. They ask him a question, and when they sense he doesn't want to answer it, they go after him until he breaks. They know he's a brutally honest guy who will eventually speak his mind. Zimmer eventually relents and says things he probably ends up regretting, such as calling Anthony Barr's heart into question. Nothing wrong with a coach questioning a player's motivation -- as long as he does it in private.

Zim has to do a better job of not letting the press get the best of him.

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Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:46 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
They need to stick with Sam, the guy broke the NFL record for completion %, 71.6%!!!!!! That is insane! Get him an OLine and some good running backs and our offense could be untouchable! Defense......get healthy!


Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:17 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Good thoughts, friends. I plan to post in more detail later but honestly, right now it's hard for me not focus on this:

The Packers are going to the playoffs for the 8th straight year, and the 13th time since 2001. The Vikings have been to the postseason 5 times in that same 16 years, with one playoff win.

The Vikings need to establish a higher standard.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:01 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Texas Vike wrote:
I agree that Zimmer's eye situation troubled him more than he'd admit and I also agree on the pressers weakness. He needs to realize that it's not only important because of its role in fan perception, but also that it relates to the esprit du corps of the team.

Interesting take. I wrote about this a little in another topic. I've watched enough Zimmer press conferences (because basically I have no life) to know that the media bait him -- and it appears he doesn't even realize it. They know he hates doing pressers, so they use it against him. They ask him a question, and when they sense he doesn't want to answer it, they go after him until he breaks. They know he's a brutally honest guy who will eventually speak his mind. Zimmer eventually relents and says things he probably ends up regretting, such as calling Anthony Barr's heart into question. Nothing wrong with a coach questioning a player's motivation -- as long as he does it in private.

Zim has to do a better job of not letting the press get the best of him.


Exactly. I was thinking precisely of the Barr situation. His style of social interaction is well suited for earning the respect of his players because of his authenticity / sincerity. In practice, game prep, all "internal" interactions, I sense that players appreciate his no nonsense approach.

Speaking with the media is an entirely different field of discourse. It requires cunning, dissimulation, discretion, and deception. Instead of a bear he needs to be a lynx or a fox, but Zimmer's not a shape shifter and he can't stop being a grizzly.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:11 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
2016 will forever be remembered for collapsing. It will be an excuse-filled year. The injuries never helped, but we still had chances to finish the season on better terms.

Hopefully the Wilfs take a hard look at things this offseason. Rick Spielman cannot fail this offseason. Zimmer needs to take a hard look at himself and make the proper amendments to his coaching duties/abilities.

As a Vikings fan, I always find myself saying "there's always next year." I am still waiting for the day where I can finally say: "It's this year."

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Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:42 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Mothman wrote:
Good thoughts, friends. I plan to post in more detail later but honestly, right now it's hard for me not focus on this:

The Packers are going to the playoffs for the 8th straight year, and the 13th time since 2001. The Vikings have been to the postseason 5 times in that same 16 years, with one playoff win.

The Vikings need to establish a higher standard.



Or just hit on back to back arguably top 3 all time QBs and have no QB issues for a Quarter of a century. I am sure Jordy's Packer-sense is tingling and he will wax on and on about how the Packers front office just reads the tea leaves right and is 1000x smarter than everyone else who has dedicated their life to football and that Farve and Rogers were 100% calculated sure things by the Packer Management but realistically the Packers just lucked out on Farve followed by Rodgers. How do you mimic or follow over 20 years of durable Hall of Fame caliber QB play? :confused:

Take solace in the fact that realistically Rodgers only has 4 more years before he becomes an utterly immobile more and more fragile pocket passer.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:59 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
2016 will forever be remembered for collapsing. It will be an excuse-filled year. The injuries never helped, but we still had chances to finish the season on better terms.

Hopefully the Wilfs take a hard look at things this offseason. Rick Spielman cannot fail this offseason. Zimmer needs to take a hard look at himself and make the proper amendments to his coaching duties/abilities.

As a Vikings fan, I always find myself saying "there's always next year." I am still waiting for the day where I can finally say: "It's this year."



I agree with all the above.

I'd post further thoughts but I need a little time to put them in order.

Bottom line, I'm not happy with the 2016 season on multiple levels.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:00 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
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Or just hit on back to back arguably top 3 all time QBs and have no QB issues for a Quarter of a century. I am sure Jordy's Packer-sense is tingling and he will wax on and on about how the Packers front office just reads the tea leaves right and is 1000x smarter than everyone else who has dedicated their life to football and that Farve and Rogers were 100% calculated sure things by the Packer Management but realistically the Packers just lucked out on Farve followed by Rodgers. How do you mimic or follow over 20 years of durable Hall of Fame caliber QB play? :confused:


I don't think it was just luck and while that kind of QB play has been a stabilizing force and a key for Green Bay, it's far from the only reason they've had so much success in that time period. QBs don't get to or win Super Bowls on their own.

I think where they've been luckiest is in the health of those 2 QBs but they traded for Favre and drafted and developed Rodgers to succeed him, deliberate moves that paid off big, in no small part because they built teams around those players good enough to win it all and stay in the playoff mix year after year.

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Take solace in the fact that realistically Rodgers only has 4 more years before he becomes an utterly immobile more and more fragile pocket passer.


That will be cold comfort at best if the Vikes don't get their act together. I mentioned Green Bay because they're an example, in our division, of an NFL organization that actually has their act together. They've set the kind of higher standard I'm talking about.

It's time the Vikings started doing likewise.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:24 am
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Injuries finally caught up to the Vikings in the second half and compromised the team chemistry which led to somewhat of a bitter end to the season.

Now we have to look forward to winning the off-season.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:36 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Mothman wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
Or just hit on back to back arguably top 3 all time QBs and have no QB issues for a Quarter of a century. I am sure Jordy's Packer-sense is tingling and he will wax on and on about how the Packers front office just reads the tea leaves right and is 1000x smarter than everyone else who has dedicated their life to football and that Farve and Rogers were 100% calculated sure things by the Packer Management but realistically the Packers just lucked out on Farve followed by Rodgers. How do you mimic or follow over 20 years of durable Hall of Fame caliber QB play? :confused:


I don't think it was just luck and while that kind of QB play has been a stabilizing force and a key for Green Bay, it's far from the only reason they've had so much success in that time period. QBs don't get to or win Super Bowls on their own.

I think where they've been luckiest is in the health of those 2 QBs but they traded for Favre and drafted and developed Rodgers to succeed him, deliberate moves that paid off big, in no small part because they built teams around those players good enough to win it all and stay in the playoff mix year after year.

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Take solace in the fact that realistically Rodgers only has 4 more years before he becomes an utterly immobile more and more fragile pocket passer.


That will be cold comfort at best if the Vikes don't get their act together. I mentioned Green Bay because they're an example, in our division, of an NFL organization that actually has their act together. They've set the kind of higher standard I'm talking about.

It's time the Vikings started doing likewise.


I think you are undervaluing stability at the QB position a little there. QB has been the STRONGEST position in Green Bay for 21 years and will probably stretch to 25 before Rodgers ends. That beats out even the Montana-Young run by the 49ers with 18. It is literally the longest any team in NFL history hasn't had a question mark at the QB position.

Yes obviously the Packers did some stuff right, it wasn't just dumb luck they got Rodgers. My point is, there is some element of luck with development, surrounding talent, injuries, etc. But they have been able to focus on the rest of their team because they haven't HAD to spend a 1st round pick on QB (apart from Rodgers) in 21 years. Imagine if in 2003 Farve had been seriously injured meaning they draft a QB in 2004 to help and then in 2005 they don't draft a QB in the 1st because they JUST did it last year and they focus on a need... Boom, they don't have Aaron Rodgers. That's not suppose to read like some sort of Vikings smut fantasy, its just to illustrate how much stuff had to go right outside of GBs control to have this work out. Not even to mention That if any team beside the 49ers, Green Bay, or the Redskins had felt they needed a QB that year GB might have been out of luck. You needed an entire 2004 year of other QBs escaping the serious injury bug and finally GB ending up a slot higher than the Red skins on the draft board.

Again they did their homework, more power to them. But they are the beneficiaries of an extreme run of luck. If and only If the next one is a HoFer will I begin to consider that the Packers management just know football better than everyone else. Two is lucky, three is a trend. This run at QB has allowed them the extreme luxury and advantage of being able to focus entirely on the other positions and I struggle to see how the Packers could maintain this level of play with not only sub par/ or Spotty QB play but essentially "wasting" a high draft pick on a QB every 3rd year.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:20 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
IrishViking wrote:
I think you are undervaluing the QB position a little there.


How am I undervaluing it? I said it's been a key for them by which I meant that it's been of crucial importance.

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Yes obviously the Packers did some stuff right, it wasn't just dumb luck they got Rodgers. My point is, there is some element of luck with development, surrounding talent, injuries, etc. But they have been able to focus on the rest of their team because they haven't HAD to spend a 1st round pick on QB (apart from Rodgers) in 21 years.


Yes, and as I acknowledged, they've been fortunate that those 2 QBs have stayed healthy for so much of that time.

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Imagine if in 2003 Farve had been seriously injured meaning they draft a QB in 2004 to help and then in 2005 they don't draft a QB in the 1st because they JUST did it last year and they focus on a need... Boom, they don't have Aaron Rodgers. That's not suppose to read like some sort of Vikings smut fantasy, its just to illustrate how much stuff had to go right outside of GBs control to have this work out. Not even to mention That if any team beside the 49ers, Green Bay, or the Redskins had felt they needed a QB that year GB might have been out of luck. You needed an entire 2004 year of other QBs escaping the serious injury bug and finally GB ending up a slot higher than the Red skins on the draft board.

Again they did their homework, more power to them. But they are the beneficiaries of an extreme run of luck.

f and only If the next one is a HoFer will I begin to consider that the Packers management just know football better than everyone else. Two is lucky, three is a trend. This run at QB has allowed them the extreme luxury and advantage of being able to focus entirely on the other positions and I struggle to see how the Packers could maintain this level of play with not only sub par/ or Spotty QB play but essentially "wasting" a high draft pick on a QB every 3rd year.


If you want rationalize their success away like that, we can agree to disagree but I don't believe for a second that any team has a run of success like they've had just because they're lucky. They're "lucky" like the Pats and Steelers have been lucky over the years: because they know what they're doing. That's the point and I don't want to get hung up on GB because they were just an example.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:33 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Mothman wrote:
snip



Sorry if I was being unclear. My point is it feels sorta like you are saying "The vikings need to sort their crap out and emulate the Packers by finding an answer at QB for 20 plus years and using that ensuing stability to focus on every position but QB for 20 drafts" Because THAT is EXACTLY how they have had they success they have had. I wasn't trying to say that they shouldn't be proud of which QBs they got because it was pure luck (which, imo it nearly was but that is just my opinion) I am saying the stability they have had is a literally unprecedented historic run of luck and shouldn't be the basis for emulation because its not something you can plan or build around in the NFL.


As for the Pats and Steelers its the same boat for them. All we need to do is find a HoF caliber QB who has the longevity to allow us to not spend a penny or a draft pick on a QB besides out of pure curiosity or desire for a decade or so. It all starts at QB stability for all of those teams because its the biggest resource sink in the entire Sport.


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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
IrishViking wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Good thoughts, friends. I plan to post in more detail later but honestly, right now it's hard for me not focus on this:

The Packers are going to the playoffs for the 8th straight year, and the 13th time since 2001. The Vikings have been to the postseason 5 times in that same 16 years, with one playoff win.

The Vikings need to establish a higher standard.



Or just hit on back to back arguably top 3 all time QBs and have no QB issues for a Quarter of a century. I am sure Jordy's Packer-sense is tingling and he will wax on and on about how the Packers front office just reads the tea leaves right and is 1000x smarter than everyone else who has dedicated their life to football and that Farve and Rogers were 100% calculated sure things by the Packer Management but realistically the Packers just lucked out on Farve followed by Rodgers. How do you mimic or follow over 20 years of durable Hall of Fame caliber QB play? :confused:

Take solace in the fact that realistically Rodgers only has 4 more years before he becomes an utterly immobile more and more fragile pocket passer.


That last part is funny and I disagree, just wanted to say that.

Personally, I have a hard time seeing the aquisition of Favre as luck, Rodgers? Maybe, but not Favre. Wolf wanted him in the draft with the Jets, AND the Packers brass prior to his hire wanted him, Wolf made a gutsy trade to aquire him from ATL and that was that.

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Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:47 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
IrishViking wrote:
Mothman wrote:
snip


Sorry if I was being unclear. My point is it feels sorta like you are saying "The vikings need to sort their crap out and emulate the Packers by finding an answer at the QB for 20 plus years and using that ensuing stability to focus on every position but QB for 20 drafts" Because THAT is EXACTLY how they have had they success they have had.


But that is not, in fact, what I'm saying.

Quote:
I wasn't trying to say that they shouldn't be proud of which QBs they got because it was pure luck (which, imo it nearly was but that is just my opinion) I am saying they stability they have had is a literally unprecedented historic run of luck and shouldn't be the basis for emulation because its not something you can plan or build around in the NFL.


I didn't say the Vikings should emulate anybody. I said they need to get their act together and set a higher standard. If they take a different path than Green Bay, that's fine.

Quote:
As for the Pats and Steelers its the same boat for them. All we need to do is find a HoF caliber QB who has the longevity to allow us to not spend a penny or a draft pick on a QB besides out of pure curiosity or desire for a decade or so. It all starts at QB stability for all of those teams because its the biggest resource sink in the entire Sport.


I don't think you need to field a HoF-caliber QB to provide that kind of stability but you do need a good one. Again, it's no accident that certain franchises have managed to find such players. That's not simply a matter of luck, even if there's some good fortune involved.

I'm tired of seeing excuses for this franchise's continued mediocrity.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:53 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Mothman wrote:
I'm tired of seeing excuses for this franchise's continued mediocrity.


Sorry, I sorta took a higher standard and then an example of another team as an indication you think they should be emulated. I am not trying to make an excuse I am just not understand the frustration. Everyone and their brothers wife's dog know what you need to win in the league, decent QB play and the stability it brings and winning several other in game match ups; special teams, trenches, DB vs Receivers, etc. The Vikings are hunting for it, they don't have it not because they are terribly managed and snakebit. But because they made some poor choices at key moments historically and didn't have the luck to overcome it.

They are going for that now but what you do need, is to hit on certain players, namely QBs. and I believe that there is WAY more luck involved in that than anyone will ever admit because if there wasn't The scouts who found Tarkenton, Montana, Manning, Brady, etc. Would have sold their secrets for a kings ransom and teams wouldn't miss on picks ever, only sure things would be chosen and busts would have gone the way of the dodo baring injury. We have been drafting players for roughly 50 years now. If Luck wasn't a huge part of the success rate busts wouldn't exist, period.

I am saying that the Patriots, Steelers, and Packers made good sound business risks with their QBs but no, the Packers didn't look into a Crystal ball and go "We will trade for farve and in 11 years draft his GOAT replacement and 3 years later start him" They Picked up a solid player and year after year held their breath on every hit, tackle, drive home, offseason work out, sniffle, cough, hiccup, finger cut, etc. And it worked out for them. And that wise choice AND LUCK gave them the opportunity to make the choices the did and they made solid ones. the acquisition of Farve AND LUCK led to the drafting of Rodgers.

I simply don't get why folks wont admit that a HUGE part of drafting and football in general is just straight luck? How would the league look if Brady had suffered a non contact knee injury in 2004 or Farve and broken his hand on one of the many many MANY sacks or tackles he absorbed in his career? What if Culpepper had popped right back up after that hit and ran to the huddle for his next play? If Vick had LIKED dogs? If Bradford and Lucks injury history was reversed? The NFL is based around a bunch of huge dudes slamming into each other with great force. Its a plethora of little things like trajectory, angels, field firmness, how warmed up you are, bone density, weight, gear, how you hit the ground, etc. that make or break a players career, not his 4.40 speed or how much time the GM spent wondering about his toughness on his big board.

Basically I get what you are saying, and the Vikings management needs to overcome its historical trend of making the WRONG choice at key moments but there is simply a lot of luck involved in getting to those key moments which the Vikings had practically nil of this year. :?

Yes Jordy, the Packers are a well run organization.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:01 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
IrishViking wrote:
Mothman wrote:
I'm tired of seeing excuses for this franchise's continued mediocrity.


Sorry, I sorta took a higher standard and then an example of another team as an indication you think they should be emulated. I am not trying to make an excuse I am just not understand the frustration. Everyone and their brothers wife's dog know what you need to win in the league, decent QB play and the stability it brings and winning several other in game match ups; special teams, trenches, DB vs Receivers, etc. The Vikings are hunting for it, they don't have it not because they are terribly managed and snakebit. But because they made some poor choices at key moments historically and didn't have the luck to overcome it.

They are going for that now but what you do need, is to hit on certain players, namely QBs. and I believe that there is WAY more luck involved in that than anyone will ever admit because if there wasn't The scouts who found Tarkenton, Montana, Manning, Brady, etc. Would have sold their secrets for a kings ransom and teams wouldn't miss on picks ever, only sure things would be chosen and busts would have gone the way of the dodo baring injury. We have been drafting players for roughly 50 years now. If Luck wasn't a huge part of the success rate busts wouldn't exist, period.

I am saying that the Patriots, Steelers, and Packers made good sound business risks with their QBs but no, the Packers didn't look into a Crystal ball and go "We will trade for farve and in 11 years draft his GOAT replacement and 3 years later start him" They Picked up a solid player and year after year held their breath on every hit, tackle, drive home, offseason work out, sniffle, cough, hiccup, finger cut, etc. And it worked out for them. And that wise choice AND LUCK gave them the opportunity to make the choices the did and they made solid ones. the acquisition of Farve AND LUCK led to the drafting of Rodgers.

I simply don't get why folks wont admit that a HUGE part of drafting and football in general is just straight luck? How would the league look if Brady had suffered a non contact knee injury in 2004 or Farve and broken his hand on one of the many many MANY sacks or tackles he absorbed in his career? What if Culpepper had popped right back up after that hit and ran to the huddle for his next play? If Vick had LIKED dogs? If Bradford and Lucks injury history was reversed? The NFL is based around a bunch of huge dudes slamming into each other with great force. Its a plethora of little things like trajectory, angels, field firmness, how warmed up you are, bone density, weight, gear, how you hit the ground, etc. that make or break a players career, not his 4.40 speed or how much time the GM spent wondering about his toughness on his big board.

Basically I get what you are saying, and the Vikings management needs to overcome its historical trend of making the WRONG choice at key moments but there is simply a lot of luck involved in getting to those key moments which the Vikings had practically nil of this year. :?

Yes Jordy, the Packers are a well run organization.


I agree completely with your entire post.

Last part is completely unnessecary, at no point did my post indicate that I care in the slightest about your validation, I dont.

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Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:27 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I believe Shurmur will be retained, as well as Sparano. Strangely enough, I think both did a good job this season. The O-line actually got better as the season wore down. I suppose there's no fixing Clemmings, but they still managed to move the ball quite well toward the end.

I honestly think this team can contend, and soon. True, we don't have a first-round pick, but essentially we do ... his name is Sam Bradford. We've just GOT to address the O-line. We've got 2nd- and 3rd-round picks, so it's possible to get some talent on the line.

Wish we could have kept up what we started, but that's not the way it happened. I'd like to say I'm used to the disappointment by now, but I don't suppose I'll ever get used to it. Here's hoping Spielman and Company address the teams needs in the offseason.


Very well thought out post!

A big decision needs to be made about Shurmur because the draft will be focused on bringing in players to fit his scheme. I have no faith in RS to find the right players, but I'm not convinced that Shurmur's system is nothing more than a vanilla version of the WCO. I was looking for signs that his offense was developing, I saw a stubbornness of trying to run the ball on first and second downs setting up third and longs, only to have Bradford throw short of the sticks and expect his receivers to run 7 yards to a first down. Some of Shurmur biggest problems were failures on third down, lack of aggressiveness and red zone struggles. The Vikings were predictable and easy to defend. Will it be enough with this coaching staff's offensive schemes to make that next step?

Tony I'm not so sure he has had a stellar season. Some of his decisions are questionable.
The Vikings’ commitment to Clemmings became more and more baffling as the season went on, especially after they signed Rashod Hill off the Jacksonville practice squad and didn’t play him until the final week of the year when Clemmings got hurt. Also, Alex Boone offered to move to tackle and was rejected, which, in hindsight, may have been a better choice than sticking with the status quo.
Then there was the decision to move Clemmings from LT to RT and bench Sirles.

From the bye week this team was a mess in my opinion I think it was a big battle between the coaches which ultimately made Norv decide to retire. I think some other coaches was also ready to leave with Norv. In the end it also made players draw sides....but that's just my opinion.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
IrishViking wrote:
Mothman wrote:
I'm tired of seeing excuses for this franchise's continued mediocrity.


Sorry, I sorta took a higher standard and then an example of another team as an indication you think they should be emulated. I am not trying to make an excuse I am just not understand the frustration. Everyone and their brothers wife's dog know what you need to win in the league, decent QB play and the stability it brings and winning several other in game match ups; special teams, trenches, DB vs Receivers, etc. The Vikings are hunting for it, they don't have it not because they are terribly managed and snakebit. But because they made some poor choices at key moments historically and didn't have the luck to overcome it.

They are going for that now but what you do need, is to hit on certain players, namely QBs. and I believe that there is WAY more luck involved in that than anyone will ever admit because if there wasn't The scouts who found Tarkenton, Montana, Manning, Brady, etc. Would have sold their secrets for a kings ransom and teams wouldn't miss on picks ever, only sure things would be chosen and busts would have gone the way of the dodo baring injury. We have been drafting players for roughly 50 years now. If Luck wasn't a huge part of the success rate busts wouldn't exist, period.

I am saying that the Patriots, Steelers, and Packers made good sound business risks with their QBs but no, the Packers didn't look into a Crystal ball and go "We will trade for farve and in 11 years draft his GOAT replacement and 3 years later start him" They Picked up a solid player and year after year held their breath on every hit, tackle, drive home, offseason work out, sniffle, cough, hiccup, finger cut, etc. And it worked out for them. And that wise choice AND LUCK gave them the opportunity to make the choices the did and they made solid ones. the acquisition of Farve AND LUCK led to the drafting of Rodgers.

I simply don't get why folks wont admit that a HUGE part of drafting and football in general is just straight luck?


I'm not denying it's a factor but we clearly disagree about the extent to which it's a factor. You are attributing far more to luck than I do or will. It's that simple. Luck plays a role in NFL success but I think there's far more to it than that. As you just wrote, drafting Rodgers was a wise choice. We can agree that luck plays a role but so do those wise choices and when they start accumulating, an organization can create both short and long term success.

In my opinion, the Vikings have been inadequately managed and that's been a huge factor in their inability to get back to the Super Bowl since the '70s, much less build a team capable of getting there more than once in a decade or actually winning it. That's the source of my frustration. There's so much more to building and sustaining a winning team in the NFL than luck. It takes vision. It takes an understanding of not only how to find the necessary talent but how to put it together in a way that works. It takes recognizing the right coach to run the team, being able to find, develop and build around a talented QB, not just luck into him. It requires an understanding of what the team has going for it, what it needs to become more complete and a sound plan to get from A to B. Some teams maximize their assets, others squander them. The Vikes fall into the latter category more often than the former. They make mistakes and then, instead of learning from them, they repeat them or compound them with even bigger mistakes, sabotaging their own chances for success. I've been watching them do it for decades.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:27 pm
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Post Re: That's a wrap on the 2016 Vikings season
Not to jump into anyone's debate, but what the packers have gotten out of the QB position since 1992 in astonishing. Part great talent evaluation, part luck. 23 teams passed on Rodgers in 2005, everyone except the falcons passed on favre when he was drafted. Similar to what the cowboys have done. Every team had a crack at romo since he wasn't even drafted. Prescott picked in the 4th round, 135th overall. Brady has missed 19 total games in his career, 4 by suspension and all the rest in one season due to injury. He's played all 16 games 13 times. 198 picks were made before the patriots took him. Multiple teams have started 3 QBs just this season!

Then you have teams like the raiders, who have had 16 different QBs since 2005, they finally reach the postseason for the first time in over a decade and their 1st and 2nd stringers get hurt two weeks before the playoffs start. Then you have the browns who have also had 16 starters since 05 despite consistently drafting in the top 10. None of their guys have hit. The dolphins have had 12 starters in that time after enjoying almost 20 years of Marino, and they too lose their guy before the playoffs start. Then you look at what happened with teddy. The QB wasn't the problem this year and we probably had an upgraded passer, but he was shaping up to be our first franchise QB since culpepper, and he blows up his knee in practice when not even being hit. That's nothing more than rotten luck and the packers are seemingly never without their guy for an extended period of time.

The high point of my packer jealousy came last night when Rodgers had literally 8.5 seconds to scramble and find a receiver in the end zone for the dagger TD. They now have 9 NFC north titles since the division was created in '02; the Vikings and bears have the other 6 between them. Obviously, player selection, development and coaching hires have a lot to do with that....but it also takes a good deal of luck to produce results like that. We just can't seem to sustain either talent or luck for long enough.


Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:45 pm
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