Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by fiestavike » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:29 am

Mothman wrote: Exactly and the kind of line you described is exactly the kind of line I want to see them build. I'm tired of watching them settle.
I see retaining Shurmur as an indication that they are likely to minimize investment in the OL. If they can make that unit respectable, that's probably enough to run his offense effectively, and they'll get greater return from investing in some other positions. It drives me crazy that during a three year run with Norv Turner, a run heavy offense, and a deep passing offense, they did nothing to significantly bolster the OL. That was a stretch of time when investment in the OL would have paid huge dividends. I think the narratives around here would be dramatically different if this team had managed to develop a top 10 OL over the past three seasons.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:34 am

Purple Reign wrote: It was your 'good luck with that' comment that made it sound like you don't even think it is worth the effort to attempt to rebuild. I don't recall the OP mentioning that he thought it could be done in 1 year (at least the part that you quoted and replied to). He just was wishing for a dominant offensive line and your response was 'good luck with that'? How are we supposed to know you were really referring to it taking more than 1 year? But even so, no one said it wouldn't take more than a year.
Do you actually think that anyone in the right mind on this board believes we shouldn't rebuild the OL??? Come on man
0 x
Image

User avatar
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by fiestavike » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:47 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Do you actually think that anyone in the right mind on this board believes we shouldn't rebuild the OL??? Come on man
That depends what you mean by 'rebuild'. Do you mean the equivalent of bringing back John Sullivan and Phil Loadholt, and adding a player like Andre Smith, and an Alex Boone and calling the line 'rebuilt'?

The analagous plan would be to bring back Kalil and Jake Long, bring back Andre Smith, sign a middle tier FA to replace Fusco and call the line rebuilt.

I think it would be better to just stick with Hill and Sirles and add more young depth than to follow that plan.

My guess is that Sirles will be the starting RG, they'll bring in a RT in FA, they'll retain Kalil for one year, draft a LT at some point and allow that player and Rashod Hill compete and eventually start in place of Kalil at that position.

The day one lineup (assuming no injuries) will be Kalil, Boone, Berger, Sirles, and free agent RT. Just a guess.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:30 am

fiestavike wrote: That depends what you mean by 'rebuild'. Do you mean the equivalent of bringing back John Sullivan and Phil Loadholt, and adding a player like Andre Smith, and an Alex Boone and calling the line 'rebuilt'?

The analagous plan would be to bring back Kalil and Jake Long, bring back Andre Smith, sign a middle tier FA to replace Fusco and call the line rebuilt.

I think it would be better to just stick with Hill and Sirles and add more young depth than to follow that plan.

My guess is that Sirles will be the starting RG, they'll bring in a RT in FA, they'll retain Kalil for one year, draft a LT at some point and allow that player and Rashod Hill compete and eventually start in place of Kalil at that position.

The day one lineup (assuming no injuries) will be Kalil, Boone, Berger, Sirles, and free agent RT. Just a guess.
I think the mock I wrote up explains how I would rebuild it
0 x
Image

Purple Reign
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:17 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Purple Reign » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:08 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Do you actually think that anyone in the right mind on this board believes we shouldn't rebuild the OL??? Come on man
No, but that's not the point. I was just defending why your 'good luck with that' comment was interpreted the way it was. You expect us to know what you 'really meant', but yet don't seem to understand how that response came across to us. Suffice it to say that we now know what you meant, but you can't blame us for taking it the way it was worded in the first place.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:35 pm

Purple Reign wrote: No, but that's not the point. I was just defending why your 'good luck with that' comment was interpreted the way it was. You expect us to know what you 'really meant', but yet don't seem to understand how that response came across to us. Suffice it to say that we now know what you meant, but you can't blame us for taking it the way it was worded in the first place.
Well it's no different than how I took the OP regarding rebuilding the OL
0 x
Image

Purple Reign
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:17 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Purple Reign » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:54 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Well it's no different than how I took the OP regarding rebuilding the OL
Just can't accept the fact that you worded it wrong is see. No, it's not even close to being the same thing. The OP only said he wanted a dominant offensive line - he never said anything about it taking only a year. Go back and read his post - there is no way you can say he even remotely implied it could be done in a year. You are the one who pulled that out of the blue.

When you said 'good luck with that' you were actually saying 'good luck with building a dominant offensive line'.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11370
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by S197 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:06 pm

One thing to consider is they can make a more concerted effort on the O-line now that a lot of other holes have been filled. I think what's getting lost in the scrum a bit is the number of holes this team had and that all of them couldn't be filled via the draft. This team was badly in need of a secondary, LB corp, WR, and to an extent QB. Lets break it down:

Safety -- We have Harrison and a much improved Sendejo. Both Harris and Kearse provide modest depth. Overall decent, with Sendejo not the greatest but also not the liability he once was.

Corner -- Solid long-term duo in Rhodes and Waynes. Alexander will need to live up to his 2nd round pick to play nickel. You then either re-sign or pick up guys who can play dime. It's a good nucleus.

LB -- Personally, I think Kendricks is the best MLB in the league and Barr while having fallen off some this year is still solid. After that the quality drops but that's par for the league and most of the time the D is in nickel anyway.

DL -- Solid group, lead the NFL in sacks. Add on an emerging guy like Hunter on top of Linval, Everson, and Robison and you have quality and depth. Not to mention Stephen and Johnson.

WR -- Diggs, Thielen, Patterson/Treadwell is a solid starting lineup with Johnson and Wright/late round pick-up providing depth.

QB -- Bradford, Teddy, and Heinecke. Best depth we've had in... well since I can remember.

RB -- AD is a question mark but McKinnon/Asiata and perhaps a draft pick may be able to compensate.

That's my take. A solid nucleus of young and productive players that you augment via FA and the draft. This allows you to focus on O-line more than in the past when we were trying to figure out who to compliment Diggs, or replace Audie Cole, or Josh Robinson, etc.

Even when it comes to O-line, I think Boone is a good player and Easton/Sirles show promise. If Harris can come back, even better. If they can get two tackles I think the line gets substantially better. Push it out another year and perhaps they'll even be at the point of reloading every year rather than rebuilding.
0 x

User avatar
IIsweet
Transition Player
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by IIsweet » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:49 pm

Here's an idea, we may already have our LT.
What if we move Boone to LT ? His strength is in pass pro. His weakness is run blocking. Guards are more available and seem easier to find.
Like PHP says, add OT Ricky Wagner to play RT.
Maybe Harris is back and is our RG or our RT if not Wagner.
With a 2nd rd pick we nab OG Crowder from Clemson.
OL looks like: Boone, Crowder, Berger, Harris, Wagner
I would resign Jake Long and have Hill and Sirles as backup OT. Easton, Shepherd, and Fusco as backup interior OL.
I would also add another draft pick or 2. I particularly like Bolles, Wheeler, Banner, and Skipper.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:57 pm

Purple Reign wrote:
Just can't accept the fact that you worded it wrong is see. No, it's not even close to being the same thing. The OP only said he wanted a dominant offensive line - he never said anything about it taking only a year. Go back and read his post - there is no way you can say he even remotely implied it could be done in a year. You are the one who pulled that out of the blue.

When you said 'good luck with that' you were actually saying 'good luck with building a dominant offensive line'.
Dude I know what I said and how I meant it. I was figuring that that was something he wanted to do THIS offseason. That's why I said "good luck with that" saying you aren't going to build one in one offseason. If I worded it wrong I worded it wrong. I don't care. My bad. Whatever. It's a message board it happens. No skin off my back.

And why would I say, "good luck with building a dominant offensive line". Clearly it's not impossible to do since teams have done it. Like if you want me to say "I worded it wrong" just so you can get some kind of satisfaction out of it then ok. Clearly that's important to you because you won't drop it. :giveup: We can move on now.....
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:59 pm

IIsweet wrote:Here's an idea, we may already have our LT.
What if we move Boone to LT ? His strength is in pass pro. His weakness is run blocking. Guards are more available and seem easier to find.
Like PHP says, add OT Ricky Wagner to play RT.
Maybe Harris is back and is our RG or our RT if not Wagner.
With a 2nd rd pick we nab OG Crowder from Clemson.
OL looks like: Boone, Crowder, Berger, Harris, Wagner
I would resign Jake Long and have Hill and Sirles as backup OT. Easton, Shepherd, and Fusco as backup interior OL.
I would also add another draft pick or 2. I particularly like Bolles, Wheeler, Banner, and Skipper.
I like the sounds of that. Just not sure if they would go that route or not
0 x
Image

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11370
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by S197 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:28 pm

IIsweet wrote:Here's an idea... Build the absolute best interior OL possible ! Much less expensive than elite OT.
Then add experienced LT with length. Experienced can be NFL or even College.
At this stage we potentially have a good interior with Boone, Berger, and maybe Harris !!! Otherwise, we suck.
Definitely not elite, but good.
An OT like Wagner provides length and athleticism. A draft pick like Banner or Skipper gives another big strong RT. Wagner was a college LT !!! I wanted him out of college.
IF, we can add 1 or 2 pieces in FA, the draft, and develop returners.... We might have something.

I think we can be close, but need to take a solid look at who we want them to be !!!
#2 is who's going to coach them up ?
The wild card being we have no idea what is wrong with Harris. I think for the time being he shouldn't be considered. Boone seems like a guy who can play LT in a pinch but I think they need to grab a true LT. It speaks volumes that despite our big losses at T, he never moved over.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Bears @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 17

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:20 pm

S197 wrote: The wild card being we have no idea what is wrong with Harris. I think for the time being he shouldn't be considered. Boone seems like a guy who can play LT in a pinch but I think they need to grab a true LT. It speaks volumes that despite our big losses at T, he never moved over.
True thats what I was thinking as well. This is really a head scratcher with Harris. It's very odd to literally never hear why a guy is out for the year. Doesnt make much sense to me
0 x
Image

Post Reply