Offensive Coordinator

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mansquatch
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by mansquatch » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:20 am

Shurmer might have a bias towards more "small ball" but the team was taking shots downfield while he was calling plays, so to say he is a one trick pony is probably not giving him enough credit.

The Sparano question is a good one, here is a piece by Daily Norseman that calls for his head. Link: http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/1/7/1 ... nsive-line

I do think that the trend on Sparano is not good. It is hard to say it is him vs. the injuries though. Spielman and Zimmer get paid to make that choice, I hope they make the best call for the team.

I'm not convinced we are going to see two new tackles in 2017. I just do not think it is feasible to replace that many OL in a single offseason without demolishing our long term cap situation. I do think the roster is in a place where they could afford to draft 3-5 OL prospects and probably not be worse for wear. If they are going to do that though, they need to make sure they've got the right people in place to coach them up to be competitive in the NFL game. That to me is where Sparano might not be the guy. The points in the linked article about Sparano's value add make a good case to the negative.
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Mothman
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:38 am

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Apologies to JIm :o
:lol: I'm not thrilled by their decision but hopefully, he'll be a good OC for them.
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mansquatch
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by mansquatch » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:46 am

Here is my positive on Shurmer. He seems to have been the driving force on changing the offense to adapt to the personnel issues up front. That is the kind of flexibility I like to see from a coach. Whether that is a case of "my system is better" vs. "If we run these types of plays we'll be more successful" remains to be seen. They did start taking more deep shots as the season wore on so that is also a positive development.

I'm hoping it is the latter. The results Shurmer got out of SB certainly provide a reason for optimism. The rushing attack and state of the OL are a different story...

Bottom line is the need to be scoring 24-25 PPG. With this defense that will equal post season success.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:41 pm

Sparano isn't going anywhere.

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:16 pm

mansquatch wrote:Here is my positive on Shurmer. He seems to have been the driving force on changing the offense to adapt to the personnel issues up front. That is the kind of flexibility I like to see from a coach. Whether that is a case of "my system is better" vs. "If we run these types of plays we'll be more successful" remains to be seen. They did start taking more deep shots as the season wore on so that is also a positive development.
I'm glad someone else noticed this because it's true. Not only did they take more deep shots, but they were pretty darned successful at it.

Did you know ... the Vikings ranked 12th in the league with a 52 pass plays of 20+ yards? And guess who they tied with? Matthew Stafford and the Detroit Lions. Meanwhile, Stafford is an MVP candidate, while Bradford is ... Bradford.

There isn't much wrong with the passing game except for the offensive line. Sacks, penalties, negative rushing plays -- those are the reasons we didn't score more points, and were are ALL related to an overwhelming lack of talent up front.
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mansquatch
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by mansquatch » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:22 pm

This is going to come off as Hyperbole, but if they replaced Clemmings with an average tackle that alone would probably boost PPG by 3-5 IMO. His penalites, sacks, and general ineffectiveness literally crippled us. One of the announcers of the wild card games yesterday made the point that you only get 10-12 possesions in a game and if you are constantly wasting them via penalties from the OL (Holding, FS, etc) you are not going to score points and consequently not win games.

Finding a way to upgrade #68 is probably the single most important thing in the off season.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Demi » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:51 pm

Shurmur had questions coming in, and nothing but excuses going out.

Hope they look elsewhere.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:38 pm

Demi wrote:Shurmur had questions coming in, and nothing but excuses going out.

Hope they look elsewhere.
Too late...

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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Demi » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:03 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote: Too late...

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Good luck.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/c ... hurPa0.htm

The only time "his" offense was even average was when Chip Kelly was running it.
Guess Bradford has his consistency? :confused:
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:24 pm

Demi wrote:

The only time "his" offense was even average was when Chip Kelly was running it.
Guess Bradford has his consistency? :confused:
I think it's more about consistency in general, not necessarily just Bradford. I think this offense can succeed if it just had an OL that could do something. The big thing is Spielman/Zimmer just need to draft smart. Let AP walk and spend 3 of our top 4-5 picks on a RB and OL. Add defensive depth throughout.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Demi » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:36 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I think it's more about consistency in general, not necessarily just Bradford. I think this offense can succeed if it just had an OL that could do something. The big thing is Spielman/Zimmer just need to draft smart. Let AP walk and spend 3 of our top 4-5 picks on a RB and OL. Add defensive depth throughout.
Consistency in general...by keeping the guy who was the OC for half a season? I think they could have hired someone with more potential (who hasn't failed repeatedly) that they could possibly run with for the next few seasons. Instead they keep the guy that they hired because they weren't quite sure about Norv? And ended up with his ex-QB who had success under Chip Kelly's offense? What a mess.

Who even knows what's going on with the OL injuries, WR mess etc. I'd feel much better if they had brought in someone from the outside who'd take a look at the overall situation and make changes. Remember when a new OL coach was going to make a difference? Now a new WR coach might make a difference at that position? And our OC needs to stay because of consistency.

The defensive coaching staff seems competent. By the time the offense gets sorted out, we're going to need to be rebuilding again. :(
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by autobon7 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:03 am

Demi wrote: Consistency in general...by keeping the guy who was the OC for half a season? I think they could have hired someone with more potential (who hasn't failed repeatedly) that they could possibly run with for the next few seasons. Instead they keep the guy that they hired because they weren't quite sure about Norv? And ended up with his ex-QB who had success under Chip Kelly's offense? What a mess.

Who even knows what's going on with the OL injuries, WR mess etc. I'd feel much better if they had brought in someone from the outside who'd take a look at the overall situation and make changes. Remember when a new OL coach was going to make a difference? Now a new WR coach might make a difference at that position? And our OC needs to stay because of consistency.

The defensive coaching staff seems competent. By the time the offense gets sorted out, we're going to need to be rebuilding again. :(
Not really sure what WR "mess" you are referring to.....we almost had 2 guys with 1000 yard seasons and Patterson was working his way into quality touches and had 453 himself. It is a bit worrisome that LT only had 1 catch but truthfully we really didn't need him as AT stepped up plus we got good production out of the TE position (97% was Rudolph) which combined was another 900+ receiving yards. I believe the team would have been better served if we would have went OL instead of Treadwell. I'm just not seeing any "mess". Johnson can be let go but Wright is also a quality receiver who was hampered by injury......I'm seeing a very solid group and definitely not a position of need.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by losperros » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:41 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:There isn't much wrong with the passing game except for the offensive line. Sacks, penalties, negative rushing plays -- those are the reasons we didn't score more points, and were are ALL related to an overwhelming lack of talent up front.
There is no doubt every skill position suffered because of the ineptitude of the offensive line. It showed up on film.

That said, I still question some of the offensive playcalling and decisions, even with a bad OL.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:46 am

Here's an option that I guess is out now that Shurmur has been promoted: former Vikings OC Bill Musgrave is out in Oakland after coordinating the Raiders offense into the top 10 (they were ranked dead last in the league the year before he took over). Apparently, his contract was up and the Raiders aren't going to renew it, reportedly choosing to promote QB coach Todd Downing into the position. From what I've reading, it was an 'either/or' scenario, with Downing likely to leave for a coordinator job if he didn't get a promotion.

I think Musgrave was under-appreciated in Minnesota but after the job he didn't in Oakland, I imagine he'll have no trouble finding another position.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by autobon7 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:56 am

Mothman wrote:Here's an option that I guess is out now that Shurmur has been promoted: former Vikings OC Bill Musgrave is out in Oakland after coordinating the Raiders offense into the top 10 (they were ranked dead last in the league the year before he took over). Apparently, his contract was up and the Raiders aren't going to renew it, reportedly choosing to promote QB coach Todd Downing into the position. From what I've reading, it was an 'either/or' scenario, with Downing likely to leave for a coordinator job if he didn't get a promotion.

I think Musgrave was under-appreciated in Minnesota but after the job he didn't in Oakland, I imagine he'll have no trouble finding another position.
Hard to believe he was not retained.....I could see him landing in LA or Cleveland or even Indy
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