Offensive Coordinator

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S197
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by S197 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:51 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote: I agree. But I think he was hamstrung because he didn't have an OL that would allow the time needed for those shots down the field
No doubt
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Alaskan » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 pm

The problem with the offense is simple. They were one dimensional, heck, worse than one dimensional, all they could do is throw short passes. Hard to throw the ball downfield if you cant pass protect. Hard to run the ball when you can't open any holes to run through. Turner vs Shurmer......hmmm. Turner had 3 years and for the most part total control of the offense, including a TON of influence over personal. They targeted WR over O line last year in RD 1, Why? My money tells me hat is the direction Norv wanted to go. And then they didn't use him. Same goes for Patterson until this later this year. This Team has had a lot of holes to fill on both sides of the ball over the past 5 years and have done a great job developing talent on the defensive side of the ball and for the most part using scheme to cover up deficiencies. However, on the offensive side of the ball it has really been the opposite. They have added some talent but haven't developed it well and haven't used scheme to utilize the personal to the best of there abilities. It had been tunnel vision since Norv arrived! Good riddance iMO. He has a history of not valuing O linemen. Hard to evaluated Shurmer as a Viking OC so far.....taking over mid season and implementing his system fully wasn't an option. He had to work with what was in place already and add some things and make changes at the weeks went on. He was hamstrung. This offense is not far away from being solid, its surprising to me so many on this board fail to see it!
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by autobon7 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:52 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:More than which OC ran the ball more, I'd be interested to see which one had the most success in the downfield passing game. I'd bet a significant portion of my paycheck that it's Shurmur.

We didn't do squat down the field under Norv, especially this year. And the guy who has helped the most to make that happen? Adam Thielen, who got far fewer chances under Norv. Under Shurmur, Thielen has become a true No. 1 receiver.

Does that mean the Vikings should retain Shurmur? No idea. As many have said, without an offensive line, it might not matter who's designing and calling the plays.

I'll tell you the guy I miss. Scott Linehan. That guy is getting it done in Dallas.
Agree with you more than any other post.......I really feel we should retain Shurmur, shore up the OL, move on from AP (loved him but its time), move forward with Thielen, Diggs, Patterson, Wright, Tread, have a close look at Ham tomorrow, and see what a whole off season with Shurmur looks like.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by autobon7 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:55 pm

Alaskan wrote:The problem with the offense is simple. They were one dimensional, heck, worse than one dimensional, all they could do is throw short passes. Hard to throw the ball downfield if you cant pass protect. Hard to run the ball when you can't open any holes to run through. Turner vs Shurmer......hmmm. Turner had 3 years and for the most part total control of the offense, including a TON of influence over personal. They targeted WR over O line last year in RD 1, Why? My money tells me hat is the direction Norv wanted to go. And then they didn't use him. Same goes for Patterson until this later this year. This Team has had a lot of holes to fill on both sides of the ball over the past 5 years and have done a great job developing talent on the defensive side of the ball and for the most part using scheme to cover up deficiencies. However, on the offensive side of the ball it has really been the opposite. They have added some talent but haven't developed it well and haven't used scheme to utilize the personal to the best of there abilities. It had been tunnel vision since Norv arrived! Good riddance iMO. He has a history of not valuing O linemen. Hard to evaluated Shurmer as a Viking OC so far.....taking over mid season and implementing his system fully wasn't an option. He had to work with what was in place already and add some things and make changes at the weeks went on. He was hamstrung. This offense is not far away from being solid, its surprising to me so many on this board fail to see it!
Solid post as well....3 thumbs up
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Purple Martin » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:51 am

Alaskan wrote:The problem with the offense is simple. They were one dimensional, heck, worse than one dimensional, all they could do is throw short passes. Hard to throw the ball downfield if you cant pass protect. Hard to run the ball when you can't open any holes to run through. Turner vs Shurmer......hmmm. Turner had 3 years and for the most part total control of the offense, including a TON of influence over personal. They targeted WR over O line last year in RD 1, Why? My money tells me hat is the direction Norv wanted to go. And then they didn't use him. Same goes for Patterson until this later this year. This Team has had a lot of holes to fill on both sides of the ball over the past 5 years and have done a great job developing talent on the defensive side of the ball and for the most part using scheme to cover up deficiencies. However, on the offensive side of the ball it has really been the opposite. They have added some talent but haven't developed it well and haven't used scheme to utilize the personal to the best of there abilities. It had been tunnel vision since Norv arrived! Good riddance iMO. He has a history of not valuing O linemen. Hard to evaluated Shurmer as a Viking OC so far.....taking over mid season and implementing his system fully wasn't an option. He had to work with what was in place already and add some things and make changes at the weeks went on. He was hamstrung. This offense is not far away from being solid, its surprising to me so many on this board fail to see it!

I don't know about you but I consider 15th "solid". Right now we're 28th, which is a long way from 15th and really close to "worst in the league". We're so far from solid that I'd accept anything above 20th as being a close enough rendition of "solid".
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by losperros » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:51 am

autobon7 wrote:I really feel we should retain Shurmur, shore up the OL, move on from AP (loved him but its time), move forward with Thielen, Diggs, Patterson, Wright, Tread, have a close look at Ham tomorrow, and see what a whole off season with Shurmur looks like.
I have no problem with the above as long as Shurmur drops the small ball stuff.

If Shurmur's small ball style was directly because of the porous OL blocking, I can accept that.

The OL hurt Bradford, the WRs, the RBs and everything else about the offense.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by losperros » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:53 am

Alaskan wrote:The problem with the offense is simple. They were one dimensional, heck, worse than one dimensional, all they could do is throw short passes. Hard to throw the ball downfield if you cant pass protect. Hard to run the ball when you can't open any holes to run through. Turner vs Shurmer......hmmm. Turner had 3 years and for the most part total control of the offense, including a TON of influence over personal. They targeted WR over O line last year in RD 1, Why? My money tells me hat is the direction Norv wanted to go. And then they didn't use him. Same goes for Patterson until this later this year. This Team has had a lot of holes to fill on both sides of the ball over the past 5 years and have done a great job developing talent on the defensive side of the ball and for the most part using scheme to cover up deficiencies. However, on the offensive side of the ball it has really been the opposite. They have added some talent but haven't developed it well and haven't used scheme to utilize the personal to the best of there abilities. It had been tunnel vision since Norv arrived! Good riddance iMO. He has a history of not valuing O linemen. Hard to evaluated Shurmer as a Viking OC so far.....taking over mid season and implementing his system fully wasn't an option. He had to work with what was in place already and add some things and make changes at the weeks went on. He was hamstrung. This offense is not far away from being solid, its surprising to me so many on this board fail to see it!
Interesting post. Agree wholeheartedly about the "tunnel vision."
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by IIsweet » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:50 pm

I don't think that the coaching staff is on the same page offensively. Tough to do with so many former Head Coaches that have an opinion. Turner, as mentioned above somewhere, was not real successful over a 3 year period at improving the offense. Heck, we were not a special offense, even with a healthier OL.
The OL problems show the lack of elite coaching. Our OL doesn't have an identity. Are they power run blockers, pass blockers, zone blockers, trapping, what do they excel in ? Too many pieces without a plan to develop a strength.

I hope that whoever is the OC can establish what offense he wants to run. Can evaluate our OL and determine if they fit or need to be replaced. Next is making sure that the OL coach is on board with developing guys to fit the scheme needed to run this offense. If not on board, find a new one !

All of this is also going to mean the Zim allows an OC to run his offense!
I personally think that we have pieces to be an elite offense. WRs Diggs and Thielen with Treadwell and Patterson? Make for a very nice set of WRs.
We are missing a Robert Smith type of RB.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Alaskan » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:24 pm

Purple Martin wrote:
I don't know about you but I consider 15th "solid". Right now we're 28th, which is a long way from 15th and really close to "worst in the league". We're so far from solid that I'd accept anything above 20th as being a close enough rendition of "solid".
Agree with you that 15th would be solid. They have some work to do to get there without a doubt.....but they aren't that far away IMO.

Last offseason when Shurmer and Sparano where brought in I looked at it as a warning to Turner.....open you mind to new ideas or move on. It needed to be done, he wasn't producing. Could have just fired him and in hindsight probably should have, but given Zimmers respect for him and the fact that he has been respected around the league forever he got the benefit of the doubt that he'd incorporate new ideas into the offensive scheme. Obviously, he didn't agree with the changes being pushed on him and he quit midseason. The injuries didn't help and neither did the fact that Bradford and Shurmer have history, but not the less, he is gone. His system did not fit our personal at all and he spent 2 1/2 years proving it to us all.

On to why I believe the Offense is close to being solid. I am convinced that the offensive coaching staff that is in place now will remain in place for the most part. Shurmer will implement fully a variation of the West Coast offense tailored to the talent available to him. Bradford is very familiar with the System, which is very important to its success. They have the WR corp to fit the system as well. The O'-line will have a new look no doubt, with FA and draftee's hand picked by the people implementing the new system and blocking schemes. These schemes will be a whole new look from the power man blocking that dominated Norvs system. As far as the RB goes, McKinnon fits the system pretty well. AD does not. They need to add some RB talent via the draft and FA IMO. It should be a 2nd or 3rd round pick IMO. There TE situation could use some work as well, but the blocking TE of Morgan and Ellison aren't the worst situation for this system. I see the transition being a smooth one because Bradford and Shurmer have a history in this system. When they were together in Philly, there offense was 13th in the league with less receiver talent and average RB talent (Murray didn't play much). There O line was solid but nothing spectacular. To me the glass is more half full when it comes to the Offense making some big strides with the new system, coaching staff and the addition of some personel.




On to why I believe
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by VikingPaul73 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:04 am

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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:16 am

Apologies to JIm :o

Not surprised this happened. I am in favor of this team being a West Coast team, but, it remains to be seen if Shurmur is the right person to call the plays.

I hope this team transitions into a true zone blocking team. Our personnel on the line would be better suited for that scheme.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by fiestavike » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:25 am

VikingPaul73 wrote:Looks like it's official

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/1/8/1 ... oordinator
Given the circumstances it is perhaps the best decision, but it feels like a franchise whose goal is to improve enough to make the playoffs, not a team trying to build and maintain championship caliber play.

It seems to be the consensus among Vikings fans that the best approach is to make the easy match, to "get the most out of your talent", even if that means creating a lower overall ceiling. I don't think making those type of compromises really prepare a team or its players for excellence or gives them the ability to respond well when they get challenged or hit a speed bump. I'm just past the point where winning 9, 10, 11 games and making a playoff appearnce is a remotely satisfying season.

I agree more with Norv Turner's much disparaged vision. If you suppose that we are going to create a competent offensive line this offseason, we would undoubtedly have had a much higher ceiling next year under Turner than under Shurmur. If we don't fix the offensive line it wouldn't matter anyways. This team, as usual, seems to be taking the short-sighted and impatient approach, and I think the compromising on the STANDARD of excellence for short term improvement is why Norv checked out this season.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by fiestavike » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:43 am

Also, this hiring bodes well for continuing the pattern of not heavily investing in the OL, as our quick passing dink and dunk offense will help minimize the importance/value of those positions. Replacing Clemmings (Kalil?) and investing in a DT, MLB, and S will probably be sufficient to get this team close to its ceiling and into the playoffs. Perhaps a new RB too if they let Peterson walk. Perhaps add a RB like Jacquiz Rodgers, or a Darren Sproles type. Also hard to imagine they let Patterson go given the nature of this offense. I think they'll find a lot of ways to use him creatively and get the ball in his hands. That wildcat with Patterson in at HB instead of Asiata for instance, would be interesting.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by VikingPaul73 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:42 am

fiestavike wrote:Also, this hiring bodes well for continuing the pattern of not heavily investing in the OL, as our quick passing dink and dunk offense will help minimize the importance/value of those positions. Replacing Clemmings (Kalil?) and investing in a DT, MLB, and S will probably be sufficient to get this team close to its ceiling and into the playoffs. Perhaps a new RB too if they let Peterson walk. Perhaps add a RB like Jacquiz Rodgers, or a Darren Sproles type. Also hard to imagine they let Patterson go given the nature of this offense. I think they'll find a lot of ways to use him creatively and get the ball in his hands. That wildcat with Patterson in at HB instead of Asiata for instance, would be interesting.
I wonder what they will do with Sparano. I wasn't impressed at all with his performance as OL coach. I know it was a very difficult season with injuries, but players seemed to regress under him. Hopefully Zimmer/Shurmur move on
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by halfgiz » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:01 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote: I wonder what they will do with Sparano. I wasn't impressed at all with his performance as OL coach. I know it was a very difficult season with injuries, but players seemed to regress under him. Hopefully Zimmer/Shurmur move on

Sparano was the TE's coach for the 49ers and Shurmur's TE position would be open. :whistle:

Bears fired their OL coach Dave Magazu . He pretty well respected.
Maybe Aaron Kromer, He is currently Bills line coach but Rex is gone.
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