Offensive Coordinator

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PurpleMustReign
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by PurpleMustReign » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:37 pm

losperros wrote: I'm a little grumpy about the OL. Yes, I agree fixing the OL falls on the GM, HC and OL coach. So where the heck were they during last preseason? The OL needed fixing then, too. Instead, we had to watch a year long debacle in the trenches.

Anyway, I guess I don't have all that much trust in the team's GM, HC and OL coach fixing the OL any time soon. I hope they can at least improve it for next year.
They were being complacent withthe OL we had. The best OL player this year could legitimately have been Sirles. What does that say about the state of the OL?

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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:51 pm

losperros wrote:I'm a little grumpy about the OL. Yes, I agree fixing the OL falls on the GM, HC and OL coach. So where the heck were they during last preseason? The OL needed fixing then, too. Instead, we had to watch a year long debacle in the trenches.

... and hasn't that been fun? :(
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:08 pm

More than which OC ran the ball more, I'd be interested to see which one had the most success in the downfield passing game. I'd bet a significant portion of my paycheck that it's Shurmur.

We didn't do squat down the field under Norv, especially this year. And the guy who has helped the most to make that happen? Adam Thielen, who got far fewer chances under Norv. Under Shurmur, Thielen has become a true No. 1 receiver.

Does that mean the Vikings should retain Shurmur? No idea. As many have said, without an offensive line, it might not matter who's designing and calling the plays.

I'll tell you the guy I miss. Scott Linehan. That guy is getting it done in Dallas.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:13 pm

Mothman wrote:
... and hasn't that been fun? :(
I understand where you're coming from losperros but like I said, we NEEDED a WR last offseason. Everyone was saying it. Nobody had any clue that's Thielen and CP would end up how they did. So it's easy to say we could of went OL last offseason NOW but not back then

We were going into this season relying on Johnson and Wright outside of Diggs? Not good. At all.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Raptorman » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:16 am

Ok, since you did running the ball. I'll take passing the ball. I'll average them out because I think it gives a better understanding of what happened.

Code: Select all

	        Att  Comp    Per    YPG    TD    INT     PF     PA
First 7    34    22     64.8    240    8     1    19.9     14.9
Last 8     40    30     74.4    273    9     3    18.6     24.1
As you can see, in the last 8 the completion percentage is way up. The yards per attempt went from 7.1 to 6.9. The most striking thing to me, is the points scored and points given up. What else was noticeable was that once Shurmer took over, the lowest completion percentage was 68 percent. I do believe Shurmer knew how to get Bradford completions. To me the real question on the offense is not so much the passing and running, but the stupid mistakes that cost holding penalties on the 4 yards line.

The second most striking thing is that every game they passed 37 or more times, they lost.

As to your running numbers.

Code: Select all

First 7  27 attempts per game  72 yards per game.  
Last 8   20 attempts per game  72 yards per game.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:38 am

Raptorman wrote:Ok, since you did running the ball. I'll take passing the ball. I'll average them out because I think it gives a better understanding of what happened.

Code: Select all

	        Att  Comp    Per    YPG    TD    INT     PF     PA
First 7    34    22     64.8    240    8     1    19.9     14.9
Last 8     40    30     74.4    273    9     3    18.6     24.1
As you can see, in the last 8 the completion percentage is way up. The yards per attempt went from 7.1 to 6.9. The most striking thing to me, is the points scored and points given up. What else was noticeable was that once Shurmer took over, the lowest completion percentage was 68 percent. I do believe Shurmer knew how to get Bradford completions. To me the real question on the offense is not so much the passing and running, but the stupid mistakes that cost holding penalties on the 4 yards line.

The second most striking thing is that every game they passed 37 or more times, they lost.

As to your running numbers.

Code: Select all

First 7  27 attempts per game  72 yards per game.  
Last 8   20 attempts per game  72 yards per game.
Thanks for the stats raptor
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:37 am

Raptorman wrote:Ok, since you did running the ball. I'll take passing the ball. I'll average them out because I think it gives a better understanding of what happened.

Code: Select all

	        Att  Comp    Per    YPG    TD    INT     PF     PA
First 7    34    22     64.8    240    8     1    19.9     14.9
Last 8     40    30     74.4    273    9     3    18.6     24.1
As you can see, in the last 8 the completion percentage is way up. The yards per attempt went from 7.1 to 6.9. The most striking thing to me, is the points scored and points given up. What else was noticeable was that once Shurmer took over, the lowest completion percentage was 68 percent. I do believe Shurmer knew how to get Bradford completions. To me the real question on the offense is not so much the passing and running, but the stupid mistakes that cost holding penalties on the 4 yards line.

The second most striking thing is that every game they passed 37 or more times, they lost
I'm not surprised. They're not built to win that way.

Thanks for putting together those stats (including the averages for the running game). The same things stand out to me. Superficially, they seem to reinforce the idea that Turner may have been managing the game in a way that was helping the team win more games, even if it was pretty ugly.

Good point about penalties. Penalties are up for the Vikes this year and that's definitely been a factor in their record this season.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Cliff » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:18 am

I think Shurmur tried to be more creative and cultivated more opportunities overall. However, I think the team was already on a downwards trajectory when Shurmur took over. In terms of production, Shurmur and Turner were about a wash to me and didn't impact the outcomes of games much. The decline of the defense did that. The defense really started to be exposed at about that point in the season and I don't think anybody can argue defensive play was the primary reasons for the unsustainable victories we had up front.

The quality of opponents also plays a part here, I think. The team played a much tougher GB team, DET twice, and DAL during that stretch.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by losperros » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:I'll tell you the guy I miss. Scott Linehan. That guy is getting it done in Dallas.
I absolutely agree. Linehan is a PHD at dissecting defenses and comprehending the players skills of his offense. He'd have a field day every week with Diggs, Thielen, and Patterson.

In fact, I even miss Musgrave's ability to utilize the individual skills of his players.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by IrishViking » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:01 pm

So all the vikings need to do is trade our 3rd rounder for the entire Dallas Oline. Offer a 7th conditional to the Patriots for Belichick and let him be our OC. And Trade our 5th rounder for Tice to be our Oline coach. Seriously, its that easy, wtf is the problem Vikings?
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Raptorman » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:35 pm

IrishViking wrote:So all the vikings need to do is trade our 3rd rounder for the entire Dallas Oline. Offer a 7th conditional to the Patriots for Belichick and let him be our OC. And Trade our 5th rounder for Tice to be our Oline coach. Seriously, its that easy, wtf is the problem Vikings?
Don't want Belicheat for OC. If you haven't noticed, New England wins with the defense, not the offense. Been saying for two years and no one believes me. If you put Bradford on the Pats, they would win just as many games as they did with Brady.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by S197 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:29 pm

Another variable that needs to be considered in terms of the wins/loss comparison is the defense and special teams greatly contributed to the wins. Not just by stopping opponents but by actually scoring points.

The other issue is when you can't run for 1-yard, sometimes half a yard, I don't know that there's a coordinator in the world that can do anything with that.

I liked Shurmur's creativity, he did a good job of getting the ball out quickly but the problem then became everyone knew this was all they had and thus could adjust the defense accordingly. Imagine as a DC, knowing 1) you can get solid pressure with a 4-man rush and 2) the opposing QB rarely throws the ball over 10 yards. Talk about frothing at the mouth. I think he needed to take a few more shots downfield to keep the D honest.

I'm glad Thielen is getting his reps, I've been saying for a while now he's better than Wright and needed more playing time. IF Treadwell can be halfway decent, they have a solid receiving corps. But none of that matters unless your running game can average more than 2 YPC and your QB has time to throw the ball downfield.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:32 pm

Raptorman wrote: Don't want Belicheat for OC. If you haven't noticed, New England wins with the defense, not the offense. Been saying for two years and no one believes me.


That's probably because it's pretty hard to make that case about a team with a top 6 offense. :)

I think they win with balance, which is how it's been for much of the time Belichick has been in NE.
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by VikingPaul73 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:56 pm

S197 wrote: I liked Shurmur's creativity, he did a good job of getting the ball out quickly but the problem then became everyone knew this was all they had and thus could adjust the defense accordingly. Imagine as a DC, knowing 1) you can get solid pressure with a 4-man rush and 2) the opposing QB rarely throws the ball over 10 yards. Talk about frothing at the mouth. I think he needed to take a few more shots downfield to keep the D honest.

.
I agree. But I think he was hamstrung because he didn't have an OL that would allow the time needed for those shots down the field
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Re: Offensive Coordinator

Post by germannorseman » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:22 pm

One of the things some are forgetting is that the 5-2 teams offense couldn't score either. They were bailed out by the D and Special teams. Once Shurmur took over the offense the D quit scoring and so did special teams. And Shumur was stuck with the offense given him by Turner. You can't bring in a whole new system in the middle of the year. He like Turner was also hampered by a horrendous front line.

I don't think Shurmur is worse than Turner. I also don't know if he's better. I would be looking for a new OC.

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