View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:23 pm



Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 Offensive Coordinator 
Author Message
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Offensive Coordinator
There's a line I posted in the Bradford having ‘amazing’ season thread that reads "Zimmer said he has kept a list of offensive statistics that he values since Shurmur took over". It's from an article in the Pioneer Press and it reminded me of something I was thinking about yesterday.

When discussing Turner and Shurmur, we usually focus on adjustments that were made by the latter after the former departed and on the production of the offense. However, I do think it's worth considering that the Vikings were 5-2 this year with Turner calling the plays and they are 2-6 since then. There are undoubtedly many different factors involved in that but it does raise a question (at least in my mind): is there anything about the differences in Turner's approach and Shurmur's approach that might help account for that difference? There may not be but I think it's worth considering.

The problem is, I don't really know how to answer the question. As a starting point, I thought I'd look at the difference in rushing attempts per game. I included Time of Possession as well. I'm starting here because I wonder if how much correlation there is between Turner's greater commitment to the run (even when it wasn't effective), the defense playing some of their best football during the early part of the season, and winning. Here are the rushing stats:

Vikings rushing attempts per game
(The first number is attempts, the second is yardage)

Turner as OC (5-2)
week 1 (TEN): 28-65; TOP: 29:35
week 2 (GB): 22-30; TOP: 30:18
week 3 (CAR): 24-58; TOP: 25:08
week 4 (NYG): 33-104; TOP: 35:32
week 5 (HOU): 37-96; TOP: 37:28
week 7 (PHI): 27-93; TOP: 32:08
week 8 (CHI): 18-57; TOP: 27:19

Shurmur as OC (2-6)
week 9 (DET): 25-78; TOP:33:08
week 10 (WAS): 21-47; TOP: 30:04
week 11 (ARI): 24-72; TOP: 28:58
week 12 (DET): 16-82; TOP: 31:31
week 13 (DAL): 19-87; TOP: 33.17
week 14 (JAX): 29-85; TOP: 30:56
week 15 (IND): 9-34; TOP: 22:58
week 16 (GB): 20-93; TOP: 31:01


This is probably too crude to consider as real analysis and I don't know how much we can conclude from it. I also understand there are game factors that influence the number of rushing attempts per game. I just thought it was a place to start.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:02 am
Profile
Commissioner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 10040
Location: Burbank, California
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Regardless the TOP, the biggest "tell" of Turner's system seemed to be the running game, which incorporated obviously different player sets than the passing plays did. I realize there are some reasons for that, though I think a lot of it was due to a lack of creativity.

Actually, I feel the rushing attempts and TOP doesn't tell the story about Turner. What bothered me the most about the guy was his bizarre inability to take advantage of the talent on the team. Not that Shumur is much better but, for example, he does play Patterson and Thielen a lot more. There was also Turner's stubbornness when it came to attempting to pound square pegs into round holes, mainly because he was hopelessly married to his system. As for Shurmur, he often plays small ball and I don't like that particular style of offense.

The only reason I can see for anyone wishing Turner was back is because of the current offense's lack of success under Shurmur. Both coordinators suffered from a porous offensive line, which had to make their jobs more difficult. But bottom line, is it their fault the Vikings didn't properly address a unit so clearly in need of improvement? If the team had done that, I believe we'd see better results from either coordinator, though I still don't think either one is right for the team.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:23 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
The big question for me on this particular swath of data as well as others is this:

Is the state of the running game BECAUSE of Pat Shurmur or is it BECAUSE of something else? If one concludes that it isn't coaching so much as the roster, then I say bring the guy on. I never felt like defenses did stuff to us during his run where we were just completely inept from a coaching standpoint. It usually felt like our OL was so awful that it would sabotage whatever good work the rest of the unit was producing. I'm not sure that is coaching or talent gap (or lack of continuity.) Hard to judge the coaching aspect in the face of that noise.

This is going to get into the merry go round of the roster. Can they field an offense that is sufficiently competitive with the defense to win a superbowl? More specifically what do they need up front to field that offense? I think they have what they need at WR, TE, and probably QB. RB is something of a question mark. OL is the elephant in the room... Again.

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:23 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
I may have obscured my main point by including too much in my initial post.

I'm wondering if, frustrating stubbornness and all, there was something different enough about the way Turner was calling the games (as opposed to how Shurmur has called them) that was helping the Vikings win. In considering that question, I looked to the running game first because the defense has dropped off as the season has progressed and I started wondering if perhaps Turner's stubborn devotion to a running game that wasn't always working very well was helping to keep games close and enabling the defense to sustain a higher level of play. Maybe not... I'm just trying to figure out if there's any significance to the fact that the Vikings went 5-2 under one OC this year and have gone 2-6 under his replacement. It's possible that differences in their approach aren't a big factor in those results but it seems worthy of consideration.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:48 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
losperros wrote:
Regardless the TOP, the biggest "tell" of Turner's system seemed to be the running game, which incorporated obviously different player sets than the passing plays did. I realize there are some reasons for that, though I think a lot of it was due to a lack of creativity.

Actually, I feel the rushing attempts and TOP doesn't tell the story about Turner. What bothered me the most about the guy was his bizarre inability to take advantage of the talent on the team. Not that Shumur is much better but, for example, he does play Patterson and Thielen a lot more. There was also Turner's stubbornness when it came to attempting to pound square pegs into round holes, mainly because he was hopelessly married to his system. As for Shurmur, he often plays small ball and I don't like that particular style of offense.

The only reason I can see for anyone wishing Turner was back is because of the current offense's lack of success under Shurmur. Both coordinators suffered from a porous offensive line, which had to make their jobs more difficult. But bottom line, is it their fault the Vikings didn't properly address a unit so clearly in need of improvement? If the team had done that, I believe we'd see better results from either coordinator, though I still don't think either one is right for the team.


I don't either and I don't want either of them back.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
mansquatch wrote:
The big question for me on this particular swath of data as well as others is this:

Is the state of the running game BECAUSE of Pat Shurmur or is it BECAUSE of something else? If one concludes that it isn't coaching so much as the roster, then I say bring the guy on.


I don't think the state of the running game is due to either coordinator but I also think there's a lot more to consider in terms of keeping Shurmur as the OC. What would his approach be going forward? He's been a 'small ball' coordinator over the years with pretty limited success. I don't care much for his approach but Zimmer might.

Quote:
This is going to get into the merry go round of the roster. Can they field an offense that is sufficiently competitive with the defense to win a superbowl? More specifically what do they need up front to field that offense? I think they have what they need at WR, TE, and probably QB. RB is something of a question mark. OL is the elephant in the room... Again.


Yes, and it has to be addressed.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:53 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Inductee
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 4397
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
mansquatch wrote:
The big question for me on this particular swath of data as well as others is this:

Is the state of the running game BECAUSE of Pat Shurmur or is it BECAUSE of something else? If one concludes that it isn't coaching so much as the roster, then I say bring the guy on. I never felt like defenses did stuff to us during his run where we were just completely inept from a coaching standpoint. It usually felt like our OL was so awful that it would sabotage whatever good work the rest of the unit was producing. I'm not sure that is coaching or talent gap (or lack of continuity.) Hard to judge the coaching aspect in the face of that noise.

This is going to get into the merry go round of the roster. Can they field an offense that is sufficiently competitive with the defense to win a superbowl? More specifically what do they need up front to field that offense? I think they have what they need at WR, TE, and probably QB. RB is something of a question mark. OL is the elephant in the room... Again.


Yes I've said this before regarding your last paragraph too. It's mainly RB and OL. I don't see many other holes on this team other than more depth in areas like DT, CB, maybe LB. WR is pretty much set. I would like to get another athletic receiving TE like Pruitt to put behind Rudy. With Pruitt gone, we don't have much behind him. QB is set IMO. Add a late round guy maybe. Especially if Teddy comes back healthy. Bradford, Teddy and Heinecke is pretty decent depth. I like our depth at safety and DE.

Basically if you look at my mock I just did, I have us addressing all the areas I believe we need to address

_________________
Image


Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:43 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Mothman wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
The big question for me on this particular swath of data as well as others is this:

Is the state of the running game BECAUSE of Pat Shurmur or is it BECAUSE of something else? If one concludes that it isn't coaching so much as the roster, then I say bring the guy on.


I don't think the state of the running game is due to either coordinator but I also think there's a lot more to consider in terms of keeping Shurmur as the OC. What would his approach be going forward? He's been a 'small ball' coordinator over the years with pretty limited success. I don't care much for his approach but Zimmer might.


My main concern is if he is a system coordinator where just does one type of offense or if he is a guy who can coach a variety of schemes and will run a system that fits the guys he has. The reason I'm not negative on Shurmur right now is that he seems to have been the driving force behind changing their approach to reflect what they currnently had on the field. The open question is if this was a change to something more familiar or a change because it was needed.

On the small ball thing, they did start incorporating more deep shots, but took them on a limited basis. So I don't think Shurmur is all small ball.

@PHP: I saw your mock. I think think there is no possible way they will not bring back Smith or Long barring something happening in FA. The team should know by now that TJ Clemmings is not the insurance policy they want/need at Tackle.

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:28 pm
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
Posts: 1269
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
I wouldnt take the job of Vikes OC unless Spielman gauranteed drafting/trading for 3 new guys on the OL in the off season......even Bellichek couldnt win with our OL roster.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:33 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Mothman wrote:
I may have obscured my main point by including too much in my initial post.

I'm wondering if, frustrating stubbornness and all, there was something different enough about the way Turner was calling the games (as opposed to how Shurmur has called them) that was helping the Vikings win. In considering that question, I looked to the running game first because the defense has dropped off as the season has progressed and I started wondering if perhaps Turner's stubborn devotion to a running game that wasn't always working very well was helping to keep games close and enabling the defense to sustain a higher level of play. Maybe not... I'm just trying to figure out if there's any significance to the fact that the Vikings went 5-2 under one OC this year and have gone 2-6 under his replacement. It's possible that differences in their approach aren't a big factor in those results but it seems worthy of consideration.



I don't know about this. When Shurmur took over we were on a 2 game swoon where the offense was woefully inept. It might be argued that he picked up the baton during the re-adjustment phase. Also, Turner had to deal with the OL injuries after week 2, but really after week 4. In that respect once he was playing with the full "mess" he didn't do very well.

I've wondered if Turner's commitment to the deeper passes and longer drops was a calculated risk. Knowing we needed to take some shots to get scoring opportunities to take some pressure off the defense. I've thought about that, but haven't reached any hard conclusions on it. Shurmur's small ball approach is different, and depends more on skill guys making plays with the ball. Hung Jury for me on this one.

Another angle might be to ask who can do best assuming the OL gets fixed? Because if the OL isn't fixed it won't matter who the OC is.

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:42 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
mansquatch wrote:
My main concern is if he is a system coordinator where just does one type of offense or if he is a guy who can coach a variety of schemes and will run a system that fits the guys he has. The reason I'm not negative on Shurmur right now is that he seems to have been the driving force behind changing their approach to reflect what they currnently had on the field. The open question is if this was a change to something more familiar or a change because it was needed.

On the small ball thing, they did start incorporating more deep shots, but took them on a limited basis. So I don't think Shurmur is all small ball.


No coordinator is all "small ball" but his history suggests that's his style and honestly, when not paired with Chip Kelly (who called the plays and ran an uptempo attack) his offenses haven't been very good. I don't find his philosophy or track record encouraging.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:52 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
mansquatch wrote:
I don't know about this. When Shurmur took over we were on a 2 game swoon where the offense was woefully inept. It might be argued that he picked up the baton during the re-adjustment phase. Also, Turner had to deal with the OL injuries after week 2, but really after week 4. In that respect once he was playing with the full "mess" he didn't do very well.

I've wondered if Turner's commitment to the deeper passes and longer drops was a calculated risk. Knowing we needed to take some shots to get scoring opportunities to take some pressure off the defense. I've thought about that, but haven't reached any hard conclusions on it. Shurmur's small ball approach is different, and depends more on skill guys making plays with the ball. Hung Jury for me on this one.


I haven't drawn any conclusions either.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:59 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
In the short term the main question is if the guy can figure out the OL mess. Scheme is still important, but probably secondary to that hurdle.

_________________
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi


Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:01 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
mansquatch wrote:
In the short term the main question is if the guy can figure out the OL mess. Scheme is still important, but probably secondary to that hurdle.


It's obviously a huge priority but I think fixing the OL falls on the GM, head coach and OL coach (in that order) first. With an OC, I'd be more interested in how they will use the talent available to them, how they manage a game, call plays, scheme to attack opponents, etc. How adaptable are they? How are their management skills?


Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:13 pm
Profile
Commissioner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 10040
Location: Burbank, California
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Mothman wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
In the short term the main question is if the guy can figure out the OL mess. Scheme is still important, but probably secondary to that hurdle.


It's obviously a huge priority but I think fixing the OL falls on the GM, head coach and OL coach (in that order) first. With an OC, I'd be more interested in how they will use the talent available to them, how they manage a game, call plays, scheme to attack opponents, etc. How adaptable are they? How are their management skills?


I'm a little grumpy about the OL. Yes, I agree fixing the OL falls on the GM, HC and OL coach. So where the heck were they during last preseason? The OL needed fixing then, too. Instead, we had to watch a year long debacle in the trenches.

Anyway, I guess I don't have all that much trust in the team's GM, HC and OL coach fixing the OL any time soon. I hope they can at least improve it for next year.


Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:09 pm
Profile
Online
Starting Wide Receiver
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Posts: 17463
Location: Crystal, MN
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
losperros wrote:
Mothman wrote:
mansquatch wrote:
In the short term the main question is if the guy can figure out the OL mess. Scheme is still important, but probably secondary to that hurdle.


It's obviously a huge priority but I think fixing the OL falls on the GM, head coach and OL coach (in that order) first. With an OC, I'd be more interested in how they will use the talent available to them, how they manage a game, call plays, scheme to attack opponents, etc. How adaptable are they? How are their management skills?


I'm a little grumpy about the OL. Yes, I agree fixing the OL falls on the GM, HC and OL coach. So where the heck were they during last preseason? The OL needed fixing then, too. Instead, we had to watch a year long debacle in the trenches.

Anyway, I guess I don't have all that much trust in the team's GM, HC and OL coach fixing the OL any time soon. I hope they can at least improve it for next year.

They were being complacent withthe OL we had. The best OL player this year could legitimately have been Sirles. What does that say about the state of the OL?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

_________________
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2016‬


Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:37 pm
Profile YIM WWW
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
losperros wrote:
I'm a little grumpy about the OL. Yes, I agree fixing the OL falls on the GM, HC and OL coach. So where the heck were they during last preseason? The OL needed fixing then, too. Instead, we had to watch a year long debacle in the trenches.



... and hasn't that been fun? :(


Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:51 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 6343
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
More than which OC ran the ball more, I'd be interested to see which one had the most success in the downfield passing game. I'd bet a significant portion of my paycheck that it's Shurmur.

We didn't do squat down the field under Norv, especially this year. And the guy who has helped the most to make that happen? Adam Thielen, who got far fewer chances under Norv. Under Shurmur, Thielen has become a true No. 1 receiver.

Does that mean the Vikings should retain Shurmur? No idea. As many have said, without an offensive line, it might not matter who's designing and calling the plays.

I'll tell you the guy I miss. Scott Linehan. That guy is getting it done in Dallas.

_________________
Image


Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:08 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Inductee
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 4397
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Mothman wrote:
losperros wrote:
I'm a little grumpy about the OL. Yes, I agree fixing the OL falls on the GM, HC and OL coach. So where the heck were they during last preseason? The OL needed fixing then, too. Instead, we had to watch a year long debacle in the trenches.



... and hasn't that been fun? :(


I understand where you're coming from losperros but like I said, we NEEDED a WR last offseason. Everyone was saying it. Nobody had any clue that's Thielen and CP would end up how they did. So it's easy to say we could of went OL last offseason NOW but not back then

We were going into this season relying on Johnson and Wright outside of Diggs? Not good. At all.

_________________
Image


Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:13 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Posts: 3037
Location: Sebastian, FL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Ok, since you did running the ball. I'll take passing the ball. I'll average them out because I think it gives a better understanding of what happened.

Code:
           Att  Comp    Per    YPG    TD    INT     PF     PA
First 7    34    22     64.8    240    8     1    19.9     14.9
Last 8     40    30     74.4    273    9     3    18.6     24.1


As you can see, in the last 8 the completion percentage is way up. The yards per attempt went from 7.1 to 6.9. The most striking thing to me, is the points scored and points given up. What else was noticeable was that once Shurmer took over, the lowest completion percentage was 68 percent. I do believe Shurmer knew how to get Bradford completions. To me the real question on the offense is not so much the passing and running, but the stupid mistakes that cost holding penalties on the 4 yards line.

The second most striking thing is that every game they passed 37 or more times, they lost.

As to your running numbers.
Code:
First 7  27 attempts per game  72 yards per game. 
Last 8   20 attempts per game  72 yards per game.

_________________
This space for rent.


Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:16 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Inductee
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 4397
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Raptorman wrote:
Ok, since you did running the ball. I'll take passing the ball. I'll average them out because I think it gives a better understanding of what happened.

Code:
           Att  Comp    Per    YPG    TD    INT     PF     PA
First 7    34    22     64.8    240    8     1    19.9     14.9
Last 8     40    30     74.4    273    9     3    18.6     24.1


As you can see, in the last 8 the completion percentage is way up. The yards per attempt went from 7.1 to 6.9. The most striking thing to me, is the points scored and points given up. What else was noticeable was that once Shurmer took over, the lowest completion percentage was 68 percent. I do believe Shurmer knew how to get Bradford completions. To me the real question on the offense is not so much the passing and running, but the stupid mistakes that cost holding penalties on the 4 yards line.

The second most striking thing is that every game they passed 37 or more times, they lost.

As to your running numbers.
Code:
First 7  27 attempts per game  72 yards per game. 
Last 8   20 attempts per game  72 yards per game.


Thanks for the stats raptor

_________________
Image


Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:38 am
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Raptorman wrote:
Ok, since you did running the ball. I'll take passing the ball. I'll average them out because I think it gives a better understanding of what happened.

Code:
           Att  Comp    Per    YPG    TD    INT     PF     PA
First 7    34    22     64.8    240    8     1    19.9     14.9
Last 8     40    30     74.4    273    9     3    18.6     24.1


As you can see, in the last 8 the completion percentage is way up. The yards per attempt went from 7.1 to 6.9. The most striking thing to me, is the points scored and points given up. What else was noticeable was that once Shurmer took over, the lowest completion percentage was 68 percent. I do believe Shurmer knew how to get Bradford completions. To me the real question on the offense is not so much the passing and running, but the stupid mistakes that cost holding penalties on the 4 yards line.

The second most striking thing is that every game they passed 37 or more times, they lost


I'm not surprised. They're not built to win that way.

Thanks for putting together those stats (including the averages for the running game). The same things stand out to me. Superficially, they seem to reinforce the idea that Turner may have been managing the game in a way that was helping the team win more games, even if it was pretty ugly.

Good point about penalties. Penalties are up for the Vikes this year and that's definitely been a factor in their record this season.


Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:37 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Posts: 7957
Location: Kentucky
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
I think Shurmur tried to be more creative and cultivated more opportunities overall. However, I think the team was already on a downwards trajectory when Shurmur took over. In terms of production, Shurmur and Turner were about a wash to me and didn't impact the outcomes of games much. The decline of the defense did that. The defense really started to be exposed at about that point in the season and I don't think anybody can argue defensive play was the primary reasons for the unsustainable victories we had up front.

The quality of opponents also plays a part here, I think. The team played a much tougher GB team, DET twice, and DAL during that stretch.

_________________
“There is a chance that if I lose 100 pounds, I could be a jockey ...” - Coach Zimmer


Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:18 am
Profile
Commissioner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 10040
Location: Burbank, California
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I'll tell you the guy I miss. Scott Linehan. That guy is getting it done in Dallas.


I absolutely agree. Linehan is a PHD at dissecting defenses and comprehending the players skills of his offense. He'd have a field day every week with Diggs, Thielen, and Patterson.

In fact, I even miss Musgrave's ability to utilize the individual skills of his players.


Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:44 am
Profile
All Pro Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 1616
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
So all the vikings need to do is trade our 3rd rounder for the entire Dallas Oline. Offer a 7th conditional to the Patriots for Belichick and let him be our OC. And Trade our 5th rounder for Tice to be our Oline coach. Seriously, its that easy, wtf is the problem Vikings?


Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:01 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Candidate
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Posts: 3037
Location: Sebastian, FL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
IrishViking wrote:
So all the vikings need to do is trade our 3rd rounder for the entire Dallas Oline. Offer a 7th conditional to the Patriots for Belichick and let him be our OC. And Trade our 5th rounder for Tice to be our Oline coach. Seriously, its that easy, wtf is the problem Vikings?

Don't want Belicheat for OC. If you haven't noticed, New England wins with the defense, not the offense. Been saying for two years and no one believes me. If you put Bradford on the Pats, they would win just as many games as they did with Brady.

_________________
This space for rent.


Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:35 pm
Profile
Fenrir
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Posts: 10501
Location: Hawaii
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Another variable that needs to be considered in terms of the wins/loss comparison is the defense and special teams greatly contributed to the wins. Not just by stopping opponents but by actually scoring points.

The other issue is when you can't run for 1-yard, sometimes half a yard, I don't know that there's a coordinator in the world that can do anything with that.

I liked Shurmur's creativity, he did a good job of getting the ball out quickly but the problem then became everyone knew this was all they had and thus could adjust the defense accordingly. Imagine as a DC, knowing 1) you can get solid pressure with a 4-man rush and 2) the opposing QB rarely throws the ball over 10 yards. Talk about frothing at the mouth. I think he needed to take a few more shots downfield to keep the D honest.

I'm glad Thielen is getting his reps, I've been saying for a while now he's better than Wright and needed more playing time. IF Treadwell can be halfway decent, they have a solid receiving corps. But none of that matters unless your running game can average more than 2 YPC and your QB has time to throw the ball downfield.


Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:29 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37200
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
Raptorman wrote:
IrishViking wrote:
So all the vikings need to do is trade our 3rd rounder for the entire Dallas Oline. Offer a 7th conditional to the Patriots for Belichick and let him be our OC. And Trade our 5th rounder for Tice to be our Oline coach. Seriously, its that easy, wtf is the problem Vikings?

Don't want Belicheat for OC. If you haven't noticed, New England wins with the defense, not the offense. Been saying for two years and no one believes me.


That's probably because it's pretty hard to make that case about a team with a top 6 offense. :)

I think they win with balance, which is how it's been for much of the time Belichick has been in NE.


Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:32 pm
Profile
Career Elite Player
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 2904
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
S197 wrote:
I liked Shurmur's creativity, he did a good job of getting the ball out quickly but the problem then became everyone knew this was all they had and thus could adjust the defense accordingly. Imagine as a DC, knowing 1) you can get solid pressure with a 4-man rush and 2) the opposing QB rarely throws the ball over 10 yards. Talk about frothing at the mouth. I think he needed to take a few more shots downfield to keep the D honest.

.


I agree. But I think he was hamstrung because he didn't have an OL that would allow the time needed for those shots down the field


Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:56 pm
Profile
Rookie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:02 pm
Posts: 41
Post Re: Offensive Coordinator
One of the things some are forgetting is that the 5-2 teams offense couldn't score either. They were bailed out by the D and Special teams. Once Shurmur took over the offense the D quit scoring and so did special teams. And Shumur was stuck with the offense given him by Turner. You can't bring in a whole new system in the middle of the year. He like Turner was also hampered by a horrendous front line.

I don't think Shurmur is worse than Turner. I also don't know if he's better. I would be looking for a new OC.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:22 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 808vikingsfan, dead_poet, Google [Bot], Husker Vike, jeg067, me4get, Pondering Her Percy, PsyDanny, Rhodes Closed, SP1966, ThePiper and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.